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"Obamacare"

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by doubtingmerle, Jul 29, 2012.

  1. doubtingmerle

    doubtingmerle I'll think about it.

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    What should we do if a poor person shows up at the hospital with a life-threatening condition that can be easily cured? Industrialized nations have long realized that it would not be ethical to let that person die. But how do we deal with the financial costs? Since WWII American presidents have tried to deal with that problem. Johnson tried, but could only get Medicare and Medicaid passed. Nixon passed a law that all emergency rooms must care for emergency conditions, regardless of the patient's ability to pay. The Clintons tried, but didn't get very far.

    There was a time when almost all Americans had health insurance. Those who did not could still go to an emergency room. But now many Americans are uninsured. The result is long lines at emergency rooms, which is the only source of care for some people.

    When the Clintons tried to reform heathcare, the Republicans had a counter-proposal where everybody would be mandated to buy health insurance. Neither the Clinton proposal nor the Republican proposal became law, but a few years later the Republican mandate plan became law under a Republican governor in Massachusetts (Romney). Obama was dedicated to reforming healthcare, and not having the political might to pass the Democratic plan, he compromised to a version of the Republican mandate plan, now commonly called "Obamacare".

    That plan is, of course, very controversial. So what should we do about "Obamacare"?
     
  2. Rion

    Rion Love the puppy; obey the puppy

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    Repeal it, allow for tort reform (driving down malpractice ins), allow people to purchase insurance across state lines (breaking regional monopolies), and allow people to purchase the kind of ins. They want (I'm not married, I don't need ins. related to women's health).
     
  3. Grizzly

    Grizzly Enemy of Christmas

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    Will that solve the problem?

    Specifically, what happens when someone purchases "cheapo" insurance and they suddenly get cancer or some life threatening disease that they are not covered for? Specifically, do we let them die? Will we not treat those with cheap insurance who cannot pay?
     
  4. Vylo

    Vylo Stick with the King!

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    Replace it with national healthcare that can be supplemented privately, mandate that healthcare be non-profit and that medical facilities must be owned and operated by medical professionals.
     
  5. doubtingmerle

    doubtingmerle I'll think about it.

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    OK, but 50 million Americans don't have health insurance. How is this going to fix that problem? If you can lower rates it will help a few afford insurance, but it certainly won't fix that problem.

    And 40,000 people die each year because they don't have health insurance. What about them? Should we just let them die?

    And emergency rooms are jammed because that is the only source of care for some people. What should we do about that?
     
  6. Dairy

    Dairy Guest

    From the articles I've been reading of late, it does seem that Obamacare was rushed through with out enough care given to how the law was written. Recall this piece in particular from last week about how the uninsured problem could become worse. Additionally, while there is a penalty for not buying insurance, the IRS was given no enforcement abilities. Basically if you do not want to buy health insurance while healthy, you do not need to. Instead you can spend your money on other things.

    "Could ObamaCare Make The Uninsured Problem Worse?"

    Could ObamaCare Make The Uninsured Problem Worse? - Investors.com


    Additionally, another problem with Obamacare is lobbying of government officials to be included in insurance coverage. I think a better option would be to allow people to choose how they want to spend money in their health care. The firm Whole Foods has a nice program currently that does that for their employees. I though that idea to be a step in the right direction for providing quality health insurance and helping to keep medical costs down.

    "Obamacare Killing Affordable Student Insurance"

    Obamacare Killing Affordable Student Insurance | Via Meadia

    snippet:

    &

    "Control Your Own Health Care"

    Control Your Own Health Care by John Stossel on Creators.com - A Syndicate Of Talent

    snippet from John Stossel's article:

     
  7. doubtingmerle

    doubtingmerle I'll think about it.

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    60 years is rushing it? We have been discussing this since World War II. Exactly how long do you want us to talk about it before we do something about the problem?

    And this had been heavily debated more than a year after Obama started pressing for it until it finally became law. Exactly how long do you want people to haggle about these laws before we do something?

    I agree the law is a mess. It is far too complicated, and doesn't do enough to protect those who are hurting. But it is a step in the right direction. Now let's talk about how we can improve and simplify it so it does what is needed.


    OK, so you are saying the law is not strong enough? If the law cannot work in its current form without the mandates, and the mandate will not be enforced strong enough, then do we need stronger enforcement?


    I see. And if the poor cannot afford bread, then we should let them eat cake?

    Multiple unaffordable options won't help the poor.

    Providing the poor with gold-plated plans is not the issue. Providing basic health coverage for all is the issue.

    And what do you want to happen to those with serious pre-existing conditions and no insurance. Do you want to just let them die? Is that what you are saying?
     
  8. Illuminaughty

    Illuminaughty Drift and Doubt

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    This is why I think it's wrong to pretend that Obama is liberal. Even his major policy triumph is Republican in nature. A band aid intended to stave off the calls for single payer.
     
  9. Rion

    Rion Love the puppy; obey the puppy

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    Once again, no. If they purchase cheap insurance they will get treated, just like now. Hospitals will work out a payment plan, and if costs are reduced, there will be a less likely chance of them being bankrupted. There's other things that could be done, but I'm not an expert on medical care.

    Now, let me ask you something. Why do you keep trying to paint those who disagree with you on healthcare reform as wanting poor people to die? I'm not saying this just on this post, but on the fact that you have stated previously your belief that we want let poor people to die or the rich to be treated better.
     
  10. doubtingmerle

    doubtingmerle I'll think about it.

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    And you are satisfied with that?

    40,000 people die each year because they don't have health insurance. Is that OK with you? Do you want them to be treated "just like now"?

    Hospitals are required to provide care to anybody who shows up with an emergency. This puts a huge burden on hospitals in poor areas, where many are uninsured. As the uninsured rate goes up, this gets worse. This hurts the care for everybody in poor areas. Are you OK with that?

    In many cases it is cheaper to treat people in the early stages of a disease, rather then wait until the person is forced to go to the emergency room. If it is cheaper and more effective to treat it early, why not find a plan that will do that? Why ask for things to stay "just like now"
     
  11. John Lee Pettimore III

    John Lee Pettimore III Same as my daddy and his daddy before.

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    Do people have a right to medical care?

    Do people have a right to do as they see fit with their labor?
     
  12. Lion Hearted Man

    Lion Hearted Man Eternal Newbie

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    The American health care system is broken right now. Anything that expands coverage is a good thing, because that will nip potential problems in the bud (like getting a diabetic's glucose under control early as opposed to sawing their foot off or putting them on dialysis).

    Believe me, metformin is cheaper than dialysis.
     
  13. Lion Hearted Man

    Lion Hearted Man Eternal Newbie

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    I think so. It is already mandated that emergency rooms cannot turn patients away.
     
  14. MachZer0

    MachZer0 Caught Between Barack and a Hard Place

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    We could also encourage medical professionals to provide their services for free or reduced rates by giving them tax incentives
     
  15. John Lee Pettimore III

    John Lee Pettimore III Same as my daddy and his daddy before.

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    That's because every single person has a right to life, isn't it? To be free to live their life the way they like?
     
  16. MattRose

    MattRose Guest

    I know! What if we get NHS. That way everyone would be covered and US companies would not have to provide insurance, thus increasing their competitiveness in the world market. The only bad thing is that it smells like socialism. Like out socialist fire and police departments. I mean, how dare the government run these industries!
     
  17. John Lee Pettimore III

    John Lee Pettimore III Same as my daddy and his daddy before.

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    Not to rain on anyone's parade...but:

    There aren't enough doctors to provide health care even if everyone is insured.
     
  18. jgarden

    jgarden Senior Veteran

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    For 2010-11, the average life expectancy rate for those residing in Hawaii was 81.5 years, while for those in Mississippi it was 74.8 - a difference of 6.7 years.

    John Lee Pettimore III has argued that when it comes to healthcare, Americans all deserve "to be free to live their life the way they like?" - which in this case means dying before you reach 75 if you live in Mississippi.

    Unless one is prepared to accept the argument that the whole state of Mississippi has a collective "death wish" for choosing to die before reaching 75, then there would appear to be something fundamentally wrong when the citizens in one state outlive the citizens of another state by an average of 6.7 years!

    This is particularily troublesome in a modern nation which many claim has the highest level of medical research and private healthcare in the world.

    Do the good citizens of Mississippi deserve to die 6.7 years before their Hawaii counterparts largely because of where they were born and/or their inability to access the kind of private healthcare that would extend their lives?


    List of U.S. states by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012
  19. John Lee Pettimore III

    John Lee Pettimore III Same as my daddy and his daddy before.

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    Do tell, how is one supposed to obtain health care when there isn't a doctor to provide it, as in certain areas of Mississippi?
     
  20. jgarden

    jgarden Senior Veteran

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    Its a documented fact that 60 000 to 85 000 medical tourists from outside the country enter America every year for medical proceedures - while 750 000 Americans leave annually in search of more affordable healthcare in other nations.

    As long as these foreigners have the money, they are welcomed with open arms - nobody is telling them that "there isn't a doctor to provide it." America seems to have the doctors and medical facilities to meet THEIR needs.

    If I lived "in certain areas of Mississippi," I'd be asking my state and federal respresentatives as to why I should be expected to do without and accept "second class" status in my own country?


    Medical tourism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012