Obama wins peace prize

[SolomonVII]

So, people you might never has read are non falling for the GOP line.

Carlos Rangel felt for the GOP line? In the seventies? Mario Vargas Llosa felt for the GOP line? In the 80s? Andre Glucksman felt for the GOP line in the seventies, I guess Alexandr Soljenitzin worked for Karl Rove them.
And Jean Francois Revel, Christian Heller, and Martin Amis are pundits for Karl Rove.

And Hernando de Soto and Enrique Ghersi all who has called Bush a con man and predicted the current crisis and has called Obama Bush on steroids and say a worse crisis might be coming are all GOP operatives.

And for the record, and some people here know how I look like, Im a brown skinned Hispanic that looks like a Middle Eastener.

Lol, some Americans are still so arrogant. They think the world is but an echo of their own domestic politics.

 

[Lady Bug]

he hasn't been President for even a year. is this some form of damage control, a way to hype him up for the next election, or both?

 

[benedictaoo]

He said words the masses wanted to hear, so talking is kinda like doing something

Officially? Is that what he did?

Seriously, what did he actually do to get the award, does anyone know the reason that's on the books for why they gave it to him?

Can't the Obama apologist here just tell me what he did? What is the reason given for why he won it?

 

[2Cosmic2Charlie]

Lol, some Americans are still so arrogant. They think the world is but an echo of their own domestic politics.

In the Cloud ( a self admitted non-American) the one supporting the neo-con agenda in America, what is he doing if not echoing it ?

Me, I couldn't care less what his country (whatever it is) does with its socio-political system.

I'd just like him to stop telling the American people what to do with ours.

 

[2Cosmic2Charlie]

American liberals, please understand something; we conservative dislike Mr. Obama's ideas as much as you did Mr. Bush's. We are convinced that the we are, as a country, on a rocket sled headed to hell (figuratively and literally), just as you all did with Mr. Bush. We could argue about policies and their relative moral strength until our fingers blistered from the typing and we would not agree.

What I think we should be able to agree about is the Mr. Obama won the prize more for what he said as opposed to what he has done and that he has at least paid lip service to the European

I think that easy to agree on because it exactly what the Nobel committee said.

Obama changed the dialog on matter diplomatic all over the world. This has given, according to the committee, the world a place to start from to start talking to each other again.

Europeans, a group of people who have suffered mightily in the 20th Century from NOT beginning able to talk to each other before coming to armed conflict see this as a very positive change.

 

[AMDG]

I think that easy to agree on because it exactly what the Nobel committee said.

The committee actually admitted that Obama has done nothing to deserve the award--just talk (and talk is cheap)?! Did they also admit that this was a political ploy to influence American policy in Afghanistan too (and cost lives too)? Wow. I just thought they were out to embarass Obama and that the award wasn't worth much anymore. Didn't realize that they were more sneaky than that.

 

[SolomonVII]

Officially? Is that what he did?

Seriously, what did he actually do to get the award, does anyone know the reason that's on the books for why they gave it to him?

Can't the Obama apologist here just tell me what he did? What is the reason given for why he won it?

He promised in the campaign that America would play nice, be multilateral diplomats, go through the UN, etc, etc. That is the reason they gave, in a nutshell.

For people who had already decided that Bush was more of a threat to world peace than Ahmadinejad or virtually any other dictator du jour, the idea of a weak president winning the presidency of America becomes by definition a great victory for peace. It is sort of like if Hitler died in 1942 and was replaced by Shirley Temple. L'il Shirely would have to do nothing more than show her dimples,and the world would already be a better place.

When America is seen as the main problem working against world peace, a weak, non-assertive, unassuming sort of man as president of America is seen as a good thing by the rest of the world—or at least by the world's Left, as IntheCloud points out.

 

[Romans 13:3]

I don't see why anyone is surprised. Everything America has touched has been apologized for. And for many that is enough. European countries have surrendered their territory to Sharia law in some places, surrendered their currency in most and made their constution second to the EU.

I take my hat off to those many young Europeans warriors who faught with our boys but I see that their are not us and don't understand us. And that's fine because they are not us. What concerns me greatly is the number of us that seem to want be them. I don't think that is good.

 

[Fantine]

I don't see why anyone is surprised. Everything America has touched has been apologized for. And for many that is enough. European countries have surrendered their territory to Sharia law in some places, surrendered their currency in most and made their constution second to the EU.

I take my hat off to those many young Europeans warriors who faught with our boys but I see that their are not us and don't understand us. And that's fine because they are not us. What concerns me greatly is the number of us that seem to want be them. I don't think that is good.

I think that the Muslims who move to Europe will eventually be influenced by European culture, particularly the women, who probably feel like they've been freed from prison when they leave places like Saudi Arabia. (Carmen Bin Laden has a great book about this.)

Sharia Law will probably be as unpopular with Muslims who have lived a few years in Europe as it would be for Gloria Steinem. It's foolish to think that these people will feel the sunshine on their faces for the first time in their lives and allow some rigid conservatives to throw the veil over them.

 

[Romans 13:3]

I think that the Muslims who move to Europe will eventually be influenced by European culture, particularly the women, who probably feel like they've been freed from prison when they leave places like Saudi Arabia. (Carmen Bin Laden has a great book about this.)

Sharia Law will probably be as unpopular with Muslims who have lived a few years in Europe as it would be for Gloria Steinem. It's foolish to think that these people will feel the sunshine on their faces for the first time in their lives and allow some rigid conservatives to throw the veil over them.

I think you may want to do some reading on Sharia, especially the terms zakat and Jizyah. If you have the time you may also wish to get a copy of 'Reliance of the Traveler' ISBN 0915957728 in is Sharia law in English with the Islamic equivalent of several imprimaturs. You may also want consult a plethora of available news articles dealing with Sharia in Europe.

With all do respect, it appears you are allowing opinion to out weigh fact and I have to assume that in this particular area you simply in need of a bit more study.

 

[InTheCloud]

In the Cloud ( a self admitted non-American) the one supporting the neo-con agenda in America, what is he doing if not echoing it ?

Me, I couldn't care less what his country (whatever it is) does with its socio-political system.

I'd just like him to stop telling the American people what to do with ours.

Well, Americans shall also stop telling people like the Hondurans what to do with their country too. I think.
I totally agree with you on that.

Saldy Bush wanted to be the Lord Protector of the World. Obama wants to be President of the World.
Can you guys elect for once someone that is just inward looking.

Do not confuse liberal capitalism with imperialistic neo conservativism or social democracy Charlie, it does not work that way.

 

[Romans 13:3]

At least Chavez still hates our president (unless I missed something in the news). Thats a good sign, isn't it?

 

[InTheCloud]

No Chavez has said Obama is schizophrenic. That he likes the fact that he nationalized GM, that says he is going to close Guantanamo, that he wants the US out of Irak and opposed the war in the first time, that he wants peace with Russia.
That the UN podium no longers smells like sulfur. That Obama is for women and non white people rights. And cares for the enviroment.

But Chavez says there is anther Obama, the Obama that sends more troops to Afganistan, threatens North Korea and worse, has opened military bases in Colombia.

And Chavez has said that while Obama is right in condeming the "coup" in Honduras, he has not done enought to get his pupil Zelaya back in power in Honduras.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

And Chavez has said that while Obama is right in condeming the "coup" in Honduras, he has not done enought to get his pupil Zelaya back in power in Honduras.

What would you call the military removing the president from the country in the dark of night and suspending parts of the constitution?

 

[InTheCloud]

Well, the problem is that.

1. Zelaya did violate the Constitution first.
2. When he wanted the military to go along, they refused.
3. Then he made totally ilegal procedures not in Honduran law to go along with his "Constitutional Reforms"
4. The Military with the support of Congress, the Supreme Court, the Electoral Court, the Catholic Church, the National associations of Evangelicals, business leaders, decided to remove him from power.
5. The Military thinking that the best way to do it was to remove him in the night and send him packing insteand of having a impeachment trial before Congress. Saldy they must be regreting that now.
6. Zelaya has no real popular support. He is a political cadaver that is only supported by far left students and groups funded by Chavez.
7. Most Hondurans what him out.
8. Since Zelaya was floundering and the Hondurans were going ahead to have new elections in november, Lula, the president of Brasil, who plays a interested part (he is a leftist but a democrat, he just wants to weaken the US while becomening a counterweight to Chavez in the region) chooses to up the ante and Zelaya is smuggled into the Brazilian embassy in Tegucigalpa.
9. Once in the Embassy Zelaya, who is recognized by Lula as the legitimate president of Honduras, turns it into a political office and calls for his supporters to riot, in others to get them to stop the November elections.
10. The Interine Goverment has to suspend some parts of the Honduran Constitution to prevent bloodshed.
11. Hondurans now call to Brazilians to leave the country. Lula refuses saying Honduras congress is ilegitimate despite being elected too.
12. Honduras electoral court, reconinizing that was a plot from Zelaya for disrupting the elections, reinstates the civil rights.
13. The US suspends aid to Honduras and visas to Honduran goverment officials.
14. Chavez says that is not enough, that he will not recognize the new elected goverment and that the US shall allow him and Brazil to do a military intervention in Honduras.
15. The Honduras goverment says they will do the elections that are most likely be won by the opposition conservative party, the liberal party is the one in power, both Zelaya and the interine goverment come from them. The interine Goverment is headed by Zelaya`s former vicepresident Micheletti.
16. Costa Rica and Panama call for a peaceful solution, and say they will recognize the winner of the elections. The US is mute but seems to be on Chavez side.
17. US Republican Senator Jim De Mint goes to Honduras and sees the obvious, the only people supporting Zelaya are far left extremists and the US ambassator.
18. Zelaya now says Israelis are now try to mess up with his brain using secret weapons. (Why people always seem to find a way to blame the Jews for something?).

Honduras is the first coup in the history of Latin America where the military does to defend the Constutition and allow free elections.
And Obama ironically joins Castro, Ortega and Chavez in ordering the would be dictator to be reinstated!


The US has nothing to win, but I do think, and the currents events has shown, that if Obama has a sin is Vanity. He needs to show Castro, Chavez and Ortega (and Lula) that he is not Bush. Not enough for Chavez.

 

[InTheCloud]

From Jim De Mint article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703298004574459762462353766.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

While in Honduras, I spoke to dozens of Hondurans, from nonpartisan members of civil society to former Zelaya political allies, from Supreme Court judges to presidential candidates and even personal friends of Mr. Zelaya. Each relayed stories of a man changed and corrupted by power. The evidence of Mr. Zelaya's abuses of presidential power—and his illegal attempts to rewrite the Honduran Constitution, a la Hugo Chávez—is not only overwhelming but uncontroverted.

As all strong democracies do after cleansing themselves of usurpers, Honduras has moved on.

The presidential election is on schedule for Nov. 29. Under Honduras's one-term-limit, Mr. Zelaya could not have sought re-election anyway. Current President Roberto Micheletti—who was installed after Mr. Zelaya's removal, per the Honduran Constitution—is not on the ballot either. The presidential candidates were nominated in primary elections almost a year ago, and all of them—including Mr. Zelaya's former vice president—expect the elections to be free, fair and transparent, as has every Honduran election for a generation.

Indeed, the desire to move beyond the Zelaya era was almost universal in our meetings. Almost.

In a day packed with meetings, we met only one person in Honduras who opposed Mr. Zelaya's ouster, who wishes his return, and who mystifyingly rejects the legitimacy of the November elections: U.S. Ambassador Hugo Llorens.

When I asked Ambassador Llorens why the U.S. government insists on labeling what appears to the entire country to be the constitutional removal of Mr. Zelaya a "coup," he urged me to read the legal opinion drafted by the State Department's top lawyer, Harold Koh. As it happens, I have asked to see Mr. Koh's report before and since my trip, but all requests to publicly disclose it have been denied.

On the other hand, the only thorough examination of the facts to date—conducted by a senior analyst at the Law Library of Congress—confirms the legality and constitutionality of Mr. Zelaya's ouster. (It's on the Internet here .)

Unlike the Obama administration's snap decision after June 28, the Law Library report is grounded in the facts of the case and the intricacies of Honduran constitutional law. So persuasive is the report that after its release, the New Republic's James Kirchick concluded in an Oct. 3 article that President Obama's hastily decided Honduras policy is now "a mistake in search of a rationale."

The Hondurans I met agree. All everyone seemed to want was a chance to make their case, or at least an independent review of the facts.

So far, the Obama administration has ignored these requests and instead has repeatedly doubled down. It's revoked the U.S. travel visas of President Micheletti, his government and private citizens, and refuses to talk to the government in Tegucigalpa. It's frozen desperately needed financial assistance to one of the poorest and friendliest U.S. allies in the region. It won't release the legal basis for its insistence on Mr. Zelaya's restoration to power. Nor has it explained why it's setting aside America's longstanding policy of supporting free elections to settle these kinds of disputes.

But these elections are the only way out—a fact even the Obama administration must see. The Honduran constitution prohibits Zelaya's return to power. The election date is set by law for Nov. 29. The elections will be monitored by international observers and overseen by an apolitical body, the Supreme Electoral Tribunal, whose impartiality and independence has been roundly praised, even by Ambassador Llorens.

I ask the same question, why Obama is refusing, despite previous US politicies, against the position of now fellow Nobel Peace Prize Oscar Arias, President of Costa Rica, with the support of Panama, to get the Hondurans to do a election and insted join Chavez, Castro and Ortega in getting Zelaya back into power?

Getting Zelaya who is now power mad into power is like pushing Honduras into a civil war.
Obama Honduras policy borders on the criminal for that reason.
I expect that kind of policy from people like Castro, Chavez and pedophile Ortega but not from Obama.

 

[Fantine]

When America is seen as the main problem working against world peace, a weak, non-assertive, unassuming sort of man as president of America is seen as a good thing by the rest of the world—or at least by the world's Left, as IntheCloud points out.

Weak, non-assertive, unassuming?

None of those words pertain to Obama.

One can be a strong leader and still realize that, in a small world where many nations possess nuclear capacity, diplomacy must be our first line of defense.

Jesus, the model of strength, assertiveness, and character, healed the centurion's ear when Peter cut it off to defend Him.

 

[InTheCloud]

The problem Fantine, is that Obama is not Jesus, despite what his fans think.

 

[WarriorAngel]

In the Cloud ( a self admitted non-American) the one supporting the neo-con agenda in America, what is he doing if not echoing it ?

Me, I couldn't care less what his country (whatever it is) does with its socio-political system.

I'd just like him to stop telling the American people what to do with ours.

As an American, I like his suggestions, his discusions. They are informed...and we shouldnt silence that.
Even if it is difficult to hear.

I think that the Muslims who move to Europe will eventually be influenced by European culture, particularly the women, who probably feel like they've been freed from prison when they leave places like Saudi Arabia. (Carmen Bin Laden has a great book about this.)

Sharia Law will probably be as unpopular with Muslims who have lived a few years in Europe as it would be for Gloria Steinem. It's foolish to think that these people will feel the sunshine on their faces for the first time in their lives and allow some rigid conservatives to throw the veil over them.

Sharia Law increases as the percentage of Muslims live in any area. It grows, not decreases.
They are and have been increasing...
And they are making demands for their laws.
And once you give an inch - it becomes a yard.

Romans is right, you should read up on this.
Sharia Law is the most NON peaceful manuever by any group.

I think you may want to do some reading on Sharia, especially the terms zakat and Jizyah. If you have the time you may also wish to get a copy of 'Reliance of the Traveler' ISBN 0915957728 in is Sharia law in English with the Islamic equivalent of several imprimaturs. You may also want consult a plethora of available news articles dealing with Sharia in Europe.

With all do respect, it appears you are allowing opinion to out weigh fact and I have to assume that in this particular area you simply in need of a bit more study.

I agree.

The problem Fantine, is that Obama is not Jesus, despite what his fans think.

QFT

 

[Fantine]

What I have read is that Muslims in Europe have been affected by the wider European culture.

Currently, they have less education and income than native Europeans, but as they begin living the "European dream" more they will probably continue to develop more European values.

Currently they have little political power.

European Muslims don't necessarily differ from other Muslims when it comes to the basic tenets of that faith, but according to Dilwar Hussain, a research fellow at the Islamic Foundation in Leicester, they do have "greater flexibility, greater awareness of the wider society and more liberal attitudes."


In Europe, Muslims must also confront social questions — such as euthanasia, abortion and sexuality — that are suppressed in many Islamic countries. Nowhere is this confrontation more obvious than in the assertive roles being claimed by women. After all, the 7th century doctrines of the Prophet Muhammad considerably improved their lot, forbidding the then common practice of female infanticide and making the education of girls a sacred duty. "It's not the religion that holds back women but the culture — and the men," says Fatma Amer, head of education and interfaith relations at the London Central Mosque. "It's up to the women to organize themselves and not accept everything their communities tell them they must do."


Although non-Muslims often view Islam as a monolithic bloc, the religion is characterized by its diversity. With over a billion believers scattered across every continent, as well as separate Shi'ite and Sunni traditions, the Muslim community (or ummah) has long been a philosophical construct rather than a demographic reality. That's true in Europe, where Muslims are divided by country of residence as much as by country of origin. "The problems Muslims are facing here are deeply influenced by the institutions of the countries where they live," says Farhad Khosrokhavar, a professor at Paris' School of Post-Graduate Studies in Social Science. "But the influence of democracy and religious tolerance is bringing about a meeting of minds."

Islam in Europe: A Changing Faith