Number of the name sealed in 2014

zeke37

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You "gave" me out of context scripture from the Old Covenant. You have actual revelation from the New Covenant and it written there for all to see. It is in perfect context and you can take it to the bank. It's there to be a warning for us all.
the OT is our school master. it was in perfect context.
the mark of God is describved the same way as the mark of the beast.
the mark of God was not a literal mark, so why assume the mark of the beast is?

doesn't the bible interpret itself?
It does say "If any man worship...AND receive his mark...

You can be certain that the devil knows the requirement and you'll be required to give homage after taking the mark (or you'll be killed).
i think it is an either or thing.
either one just goes along with his kingdom,
or one is deceived to the point that they actually worship him as God.

plus I do not believe that the beheaded ones of Rev20 are trib martyrs at all,
but rather the beheaded through out the centuries, like the notible John the Baptist.
Most all the disciples were martyred.

so, the dead marytrs in heaven AND the alive on earth that do not take the mark, reign for the 1000 years.
the firstfruits.

Take a good look because you'll be accountable for it.

"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."
Rev 14:9-12 (KJV)
i try real hard to always "take a good look".

i believe the scriptures 100%. it's about the way one views it tho. interpretation.
i do indeed believe that the seduced potential bride to be, will receive the wrath of God.
I believe that they will be refined in the Millennium.
only the elect rest, not the non elect.
any believer that fails in the trib's hour of temptation, will not rest in the Millennium.
and it is the smoke of their torments that rise forever, not them being fried in hell for eternity.
imo the elect shall help to kick those tormenst up....and out....refining.

Your faith and patience is based on your receiving the Word and not taking the mark.
i agree.

These are pearls of wisdom to be received by God's people.
be carefull that your doctrine is not misapplied.

pre trib is a sure way to be deceived.
pre trib teaches that Jesus comes first, but Jesus teaches that the false Christ comes first.
 
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Alive_Again

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One thing that God has HEAVILY impressed upon me over the years is to receive His Word as it is written. It's supposed to be read by a child and understood.

One of the things that safeguard us from deception is our ability to hear and receive the Word.

It does say "If any man worship...AND receive his mark...

You can be certain that the devil knows the requirement and you'll be required to give homage after taking the mark (or you'll be killed).
i think it is an either or thing.

This is an example of not receiving the Word. It says "AND".

There were tongues of fire and a baptism of fire, but the lake of fire is not related. Just because it is all fire doesn't mean that it's all the same. In the same way, just because there are mentions of marks in the Word, that it is symbolic.
 
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zeke37

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One thing that God has HEAVILY impressed upon me over the years is to receive His Word as it is written. It's supposed to be read by a child and understood.

One of the things that safeguard us from deception is our ability to hear and receive the Word.
It does say "If any man worship...AND receive his mark...

You can be certain that the devil knows the requirement and you'll be required to give homage after taking the mark (or you'll be killed).

This is an example of not receiving the Word. It says "AND".

you are making an error.
you are applying the bible to your specific understanding, when that may not be the truth.

first off, the word AND is often a polysendendant...look it up.
it is common usage in the KJV.


a child can understand, if the child understand the language.
IOW, the milk is easy to understand...it's the solid food that takes some getting used to.


through the years, the Word has been through many languages, each time loosing a little clarity. from original to sept. to latin vulgate, to many many more, into the english and abound.
it's the broken telephone game.

i enjoy going back to the original languages, and comparing.


I know what the scriptures say.

There were tongues of fire and a baptism of fire, but the lake of fire is not related.
lol.

Just because it is all fire doesn't mean that it's all the same. In the same way, just because there are mentions of marks in the Word, that it is symbolic.
the description is the same.
it is based on keeping the first commandment and remembering what God has done for us.

if you forget what God has done for you, or break the first commandment, you are going to have the mark of the beast.

accepting the beast's kingdom as God's, is IMO the mark in the hand.
actually worshiping him as Christ, is IMO the mark in the forhead.


this is one case where the bible certainly does interpret itself.
most of Rev is direct OT quotes.
it makes perfect sense to review those scriptures to come up with an educated answer.


for example, 666 is mentioned a few times in the bible,
so that is where we should look for the answer to what 666 means.

but folks will say it's bible code, or it's obama, or its prince william, or we can figure it out by giving the letters of the bible a numeric value based on 6's (lol)germatria, or whatever.

baloney is baloney.


we have to search the scriptures for the biblical answers.
 
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Alive_Again

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you are making an error.
you are applying the bible to your specific understanding, when that may not be the truth.

I'll share with you something that happened while giving a message on the Forum. It goes in line with MANY quickenings over the years about God's Word and how it's reliable.

I was sitting at this same desk assuring someone going through some problems that no matter what anyone said, if God's Word said something, you could take it to the bank. Absolute authority.

When I "said" (typed) that, in one moments time, God pulled back the veil to His throne and He reached out and affirmed what I said as the absolute truth. I've always known God hears and sees us, and I know His presence hundreds and hundreds of times. His anointing is very sweet and I hunger for more, but when God removed the "veil" that keeps us from fully comprehending His reality it thrilled me and I rank it among the top experiences with God I've ever had. I preach it all of the time hoping to have it again! It only lasted an instant!

When I was 14, I was crashed out and I was laying in my bed and the roof came off of the house and I retracted right in my bed right before the presence of God! (I was a sinner.) I panicked, but God reassured me that He had a plan for my life. 10 years later, I was so demonically oppressed no explanation would ease my mind about being "saved" or anything else, but God's anointed Word through anointed teachers set me free. Anyone can say what they want with the Word but only the anointing can set you free. Anointed truth and anything short of that are opinions.

When I had backslidden for years, I read something about how (wisdom) God laughs at our problems that we get into by ignoring what He says. I felt really bad because I deserved everything I had reaped in my own life.

When I went to bed that night, in my sleep, it was as though their was a window through space to the throne of God open and God's very heart reached out to me and very caringly assured me that He wasn't laughing. He wanted me back in fellowship and wanted to restore me from the life of sin I had gotten into and He did in short order. It was the deepest moment I've ever known.

I woke up trying to get that back, but you cannot will these things to happen. Over the years, God has made me a "Word man" and when people take the Word and symbolize or spiritualize it to where it doesn't mean what it says, I want to rise up and assure you that it really does mean what it says. Not that I'm more spiritual than anyone, but the simple truth is just that. From a loving Father.

I'm not preaching myself but just like Jesus said, the Holy Spirit leads and guides us into all truth. It's important to take the Book of Revelation carefully and not spiritualize it into saying something else.

a child can understand, if the child understand the language.
IOW, the milk is easy to understand...it's the solid food that takes some getting used to.

The meat is the will of the Father.

through the years, the Word has been through many languages, each time loosing a little clarity. from original to sept. to latin vulgate, to many many more, into the english and abound.
it's the broken telephone game.

Not even close. While Hebrew has been likened to a 3 dimensional language and no other language approaches the depth it offers, the Holy Spirit is right on hand to give understanding. The cults take it apart to find the "real truth", but their lack of anointing tells all.

i enjoy going back to the original languages, and comparing.
I know what the scriptures say.

I don't! I rely on the Lord to show me what it means. I rely on the anointing to minister the voice of the Lord. I'm listening for the anointing and the trash I've read about the mark of the beast is not of God.
 
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virgilio

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I have not denied the title of my post as the topic, what I deny is your accusations on the meaning of my post; which you clearly do not understand.

Revelation 13:18;"Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Imagine that, the Lord told those who have understanding to count the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Sorry, for our misunderstanding which was cause by your inclusion of 144.000 number of children of Israel and add more error when applied deduction of the Levites which has nothing to do or not related to the number of the beast.
Revelation 13:18 is figurative and I think there is no need to count or calculate the stated number for you can clearly read it as six hundred three score and six (666)

Being a symbolic words I would like to share to you my position about the meaning of the number of the beast which I will prove it not using numerical calculation but according to Scripture.

[FONT=&quot]He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads” (Rev.13:16).
All interpretive views agree that the beast is not a four-footed wild mammal but rather is symbolic of some great satanic power among men. The number also must be symbolic inasmuch as we are told to “calculate the number of the beast.” We have to do a calculation to understand the symbol. Rev. 13:7 speaks of “one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” The mark, the name, or the number. Since the number is symbolic, the mark would also seem to be symbolic. There is no necessity of envisioning people literally having the number 666 stamped on their right hands or foreheads. [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Behind the forehead is the brain, the mind; the hand is the action member of the body. The symbolism seems to contemplate the ability to think and the ability to do. It is a matter of belief and action. The mark is a representation of those who have yielded their minds and bodies into the service of the beast, of those who accept the teachings and obey the commands of the beast; they worship the beast. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]This symbolism is very much like the symbolism used for the people of God. In Rev. 7:3, the servants of God are sealed on their foreheads, while in 22:4 God’s children have His name on their foreheads. As early as Deut. 6:8, similar symbolism is recorded involving the forehead and the hand. Referring to the words of God, Moses commanded the Israelites: “You shall bind them [God’s words] as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.” This is the context Jesus quoted when proclaiming the greatest commandment of the law: loving God (Matt. 22:36-38). Loving God involves the mind and the hand; it involves what we believe and what we do. Worshipping the beast likewise involves what one believes and what one does. [/FONT]

Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio
 
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virgilio

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Hello Alive Again,
"The meat is the will of the Father." I like this.
John 6:53-56 Jesus therefore said to them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Unless ye shall have eaten the flesh of the Son of man, and drunk his blood, ye have no life in yourselves.

54 He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood has life eternal, and I will raise him up at the last day:

55 for my flesh is truly food and my blood is truly drink.

56 He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood dwells in me and I in him.

Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio



 
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zeke37

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I'll share with you something that happened while giving a message on the Forum. It goes in line with MANY quickenings over the years about God's Word and how it's reliable.

I was sitting at this same desk assuring someone going through some problems that no matter what anyone said, if God's Word said something, you could take it to the bank. Absolute authority.

When I "said" (typed) that, in one moments time, God pulled back the veil to His throne and He reached out and affirmed what I said as the absolute truth. I've always known God hears and sees us, and I know His presence hundreds and hundreds of times. His anointing is very sweet and I hunger for more, but when God removed the "veil" that keeps us from fully comprehending His reality it thrilled me and I rank it among the top experiences with God I've ever had. I preach it all of the time hoping to have it again! It only lasted an instant!

When I was 14, I was crashed out and I was laying in my bed and the roof came off of the house and I retracted right in my bed right before the presence of God! (I was a sinner.) I panicked, but God reassured me that He had a plan for my life. 10 years later, I was so demonically oppressed no explanation would ease my mind about being "saved" or anything else, but God's anointed Word through anointed teachers set me free. Anyone can say what they want with the Word but only the anointing can set you free. Anointed truth and anything short of that are opinions.

When I had backslidden for years, I read something about how (wisdom) God laughs at our problems that we get into by ignoring what He says. I felt really bad because I deserved everything I had reaped in my own life.

When I went to bed that night, in my sleep, it was as though their was a window through space to the throne of God open and God's very heart reached out to me and very caringly assured me that He wasn't laughing. He wanted me back in fellowship and wanted to restore me from the life of sin I had gotten into and He did in short order. It was the deepest moment I've ever known.

I woke up trying to get that back, but you cannot will these things to happen. Over the years, God has made me a "Word man" and when people take the Word and symbolize or spiritualize it to where it doesn't mean what it says, I want to rise up and assure you that it really does mean what it says. Not that I'm more spiritual than anyone, but the simple truth is just that. From a loving Father.

I'm not preaching myself but just like Jesus said, the Holy Spirit leads and guides us into all truth. It's important to take the Book of Revelation carefully and not spiritualize it into saying something else.

:thumbsup: reminds me of my own experiences when I became born again.
as for Rev...as I said before, most all of it is direct OT quotes.
so to understand the book we ought to read those OT prophets words and then fit it together.
most all things in Rev are not literal....most.
for example, if one reads Zec4 first, then Rev1-2-3 and 11 will make much more sense.
Without that as a base, you don't know what you are reading.
or
the sealing of the elect in Rev7 is told to us in Ez9.
there are plently of examples.
The meat is the will of the Father.
the milk is the easy to understand Word of God in the Bible.
Most all Christians believe in the same milk.

the meat is the Word of God that is difficult to understand until one gets used to the diet...
one has to be weined from the milk first. that is the "child" reference.

Not even close. While Hebrew has been likened to a 3 dimensional language and no other language approaches the depth it offers, the Holy Spirit is right on hand to give understanding. The cults take it apart to find the "real truth", but their lack of anointing tells all.
huh? what I wrote was true.
there are very many easy to prove translation errors in the English bibles, as well as the Latin V and Sept.
That doesn't take away from the Word...not as long as one searches for the truth.
there are thousands of examples.

I don't! I rely on the Lord to show me what it means.
I said I know what they say.
What they mean is most of the time subject to interpretation.

I rely on the anointing to minister the voice of the Lord.
as do I, but i am not going to just read the english and assume that it is perfect.
most times it is not. That is why we need to pray for understanding and have the Holy Spirit lead us to truth.
sometimes it takes years for a person to change their mind.
sometimes it's instant.
I'm listening for the anointing and the trash I've read about the mark of the beast is not of God.
the scriptures that I pointed you too, show what the mark of God is.
by that description we can figure out what the mark of the beast is.

i have no idea why you are against this understanding.
no chip or tattoo or barcode or whatever, is needed.
it is all about "choice". will you wait patiently for the return of the Lord and His Kingdom, or will you accept the false Christ's kingdom when he comes to set it up.
 
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Alive_Again

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for example, if one reads Zec4 first, then Rev1-2-3 and 11 will make much more sense. Without that as a base, you don't know what you are reading.

The whole point to what I was saying is that you DO know what you are reading. You don't need to know ANY Old Covenant scriptures. You don't have to understand Daniel, you don't have to be a Jew and know Deut. You just have to take the Word as it is. The Word says their will be a mark and if you don't believe that, that means you won't preach it as a warning. Furthermore, you won't receive the Word at face value and your REASONINGS will possibility lead others astray by not providing an example of taking the Word AT FACE VALUE.

the milk is the easy to understand Word of God in the Bible.
Most all Christians believe in the same milk.

Yeah, as demonstrated by Hebrews 6. Many do not know about repentance and faith. They only know about faith, or being born again and going to Heaven. The Word teaches repentance and without it, no one, including the born again will see God.

it's the broken telephone game.

huh? what I wrote was true.

Your take on the Word scatters and you need knowledge of original languages to understand (rather than Just the Holy Spirit and anointed 5 five ministers). You also need the whole book to "understand" Revelation. (You need to know how to read to receive the warning, that is all.)

there are very many easy to prove translation errors in the English bibles, as well as the Latin V and Sept.

As it is English it will not be the same but you can get what is intended straight from the English. God controls His sheep's understanding of the Word as they seek Him.

I said I know what they say.
What they mean is most of the time subject to interpretation.

By the Holy Spirit. If the power isn't their then it is watered down. What was said about the 666 is so dissected it no longer resembles the warning to ALL it is intended to be. You have to ADD to the Word to do this. Try reading it again and believing what it says. The Holy Spirit will bear witness to it.

sometimes it takes years for a person to change their mind.
sometimes it's instant.

If you're young enough you'll probably see the physical mark. At that point, start receiving the Word for what it says and leave behind the so called science of reasonings.
the scriptures that I pointed you too, show what the mark of God is.
by that description we can figure out what the mark of the beast is.

They are ALL out of context. You spiritualized it entirely and the warning is gone!
 
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zeke37

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The whole point to what I was saying is that you DO know what you are reading. You don't need to know ANY Old Covenant scriptures. You don't have to understand Daniel, you don't have to be a Jew and know Deut.

ummmm, when the NT says to search the scriptures, just what scriptures do you think that refers too??? lol.

being a "jew" has othing to do with it.

You just have to take the Word as it is. The Word says their will be a mark and if you don't believe that, that means you won't preach it as a warning. Furthermore, you won't receive the Word at face value and your REASONINGS will possibility lead others astray by not providing an example of taking the Word AT FACE VALUE.
lol again.
I gave perfect example.
Infact, I showed what the "mark" is defined as, FROM THE BIBLE.
the mark that is described as between your eyes or on your hand, is not a literal mark according to the BIBLE.
again, i refer you to Ex13, Deut6, Deut11.
if you cannot easily see the same descriptions, we have nothing further to talk about.

you can think it is literal all ya want to.
I know better.

Yeah, as demonstrated by Hebrews 6. Many do not know about repentance and faith. They only know about faith, or being born again and going to Heaven. The Word teaches repentance and without it, no one, including the born again will see God.
:thumbsup:

Your take on the Word scatters and you need knowledge of original languages to understand (rather than Just the Holy Spirit and anointed 5 five ministers). You also need the whole book to "understand" Revelation. (You need to know how to read to receive the warning, that is all.)
ok friend.
the body has many parts.
obviously you and i are different parts.



if you don't understand the "what" and "why" in Rev, you'll have no idea what you are reading.

you'll be most likely think that you'll have to spend your time avoiding a tatoo, or computer chip,
instead of knowing what is really going on.
you'd be looking for someone chopping off heads, and that is far from the truth.

As it is English it will not be the same but you can get what is intended straight from the English. God controls His sheep's understanding of the Word as they seek Him.
most times I agree, but I find the use of the Strong's Concordance to be very valuable since I do not read fluent Hebrew or Greek.

By the Holy Spirit. If the power isn't their then it is watered down. What was said about the 666 is so dissected it no longer resembles the warning to ALL it is intended to be. You have to ADD to the Word to do this. Try reading it again and believing what it says. The Holy Spirit will bear witness to it.
what? 666? his number is 666.
well what that means has always been up for debate.
i started my study of 666 with the other biblical references to 666 found in the OT.
and i think it may have something to do with the 6th seal, 6th trump, 6th vial....


i have not even said what 666 is?????

If you're young enough you'll probably see the physical mark.
there is no physical mark.

At that point, start receiving the Word for what it says and leave behind the so called science of reasonings.
lol, the OT is our schoolmaster.
That is where we find the answers in the scriptures...lol
without it, you have no foundation.

They are ALL out of context. You spiritualized it entirely and the warning is gone!
no, the warning remains...
accept the false Christ's kingdom, including spending it's currency, and you have his mark, as simple as that.
worship him, thinking he is Christ, is also having the mark.

no chip needed.
 
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Alive_Again

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ummmm, when the NT says to search the scriptures, just what scriptures do you think that refers too??? lol.
The Bereans searched the scriptures to see if what Paul preached was scriptural. It agrees with established precedent (since God does not contradict Himself). He does new things and they didn't have to do that to figure out what he "really was saying".

being a "jew" has othing to do with it.
What I'm saying is that a Christian, or nonbeliever can read the passage about the mark and understand perfectly what it means without any concept of types or shadows.

lol again.
It's actually not a laughing matter. It's very grave. Not only is taking the Word as it is given a grave thing (particularly since your example for others is to do otherwise), the warning given in Revelation is VERY grave. I enjoy laughter as well, but their is a time and place for everything, and sitting there laughing about me telling you to take the Word as it is given without pointing to scriptures with a similar subject or Word that are out of context (Not even in the same book!) with what IT IS SAYING is a grave thing. You're making it say something else, which is what the cults do.

I gave perfect example.

Yes, you did.


In fact, I showed what the "mark" is defined as, FROM THE BIBLE.
You went so far out of context , it would be laughable except for the fact that it is a very serious warning about a literal position all people on the earth at that time will face.

Unbelievers are not "marked" (they are just dead) and those who choose to walk in darkness are not doomed until their time is come. ALL can seek the Lord, while He may be found (in their lifetime) -- unless they take the literal mark. If the mark is not literal, how will they know they've taken it? The enemy will accuse them. You see, the times on the earth will get so bad, their will be many who take the mark and want to repent and they cannot! Others who do not will eventually choose the Lord, and they can because He always receives those who call upon Him in truth to be saved (unless they've taken the physical mark).

the mark that is described as between your eyes or on your hand, is not a literal mark according to the BIBLE.
again, i refer you to Ex13, Deut6, Deut11.
Out of context. This is not talking about the mark in Deut, or Ex.

you can think it is literal all ya want to.
I know better.
You are demonstrating a quality that the deceived demonstrate. That is, taking the Word of God and making it say something it is NOT saying based on some other scripture taken out context.

if you don't understand the "what" and "why" in Rev, you'll have no idea what you are reading.
The what and why is that their will be a literal antichrist - beast individual. He will do as the book states.. perform signs and wonders. He will make the world worship him and take the mark or be killed. That is the literal truth. The Word says that their is a spirit of antichrist that was in the world even in John's day. That does not mean that a beast with an antichrist spirit will not be manifested on the earth.

you'll be most likely think that you'll have to spend your time avoiding a tatoo, or computer chip, instead of knowing what is really going on.
you'd be looking for someone chopping off heads, and that is far from the truth.
The thing is, even Christians can get caught up in a spirit of fear by not walking closely to the Lord and out of fear take the literal mark and be damned to Hell. Even if they say they don't really worship the beast because they're a "believer" and take the literal mark because they want to eat or even to live, they will find out that the Word is forever settled in Heaven.

what? 666? his number is 666.
well what that means has always been up for debate.
i started my study of 666 with the other biblical references to 666 found in the OT.
and i think it may have something to do with the 6th seal, 6th trump, 6th vial....
Try taking the Word as a little child. Your mysteries will start to fade and you'll find the Lord confirms His Word with anointing power.

If you're young enough you'll probably see the physical mark.
there is no physical mark.
At that point, start receiving the Word for what it says and leave behind the so called science of reasonings.
lol, the OT is our schoolmaster.
That is where we find the answers in the scriptures...lol
without it, you have no foundation.
Again, no laughing matter. The answers are NOT really in the OT. Our foundation is in Christ and on the apostles and (foundational) prophets, not the Law of Moses.
 
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Alive, you keep saying we should read the word as a child, but the word says "This calls for wisom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast".

Does that sound like something a child can figure out? There is clearly a deeper meaning here.
 
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Alive_Again

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Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Rev 13:18 (KJV)


It tells us what the number is. It didn't tell us that to put us on a wild goose chase to try and determine what it really means.


Considering what's at stake, is not wisdom to apprehend this?


When they pass out the mark and make people worship the beast, you'll know what it is. Don't take ANY marks and don't worship the beast
 
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Alive_Again

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Is not the wisdom recognizing the number and not receiving it. It's the faith and patience of the saints to not take the number in the face of hunger, torture, and death.

While symbolically, six may be the number of man, that is too generic to pass off as something that simple. We're told that it is a mark that goes on a hand or forehead. When that's going around, use wisdom because the penalty is great.
 
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LastSeven

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I see what you're saying, but I've never looked at it that way before. I've always seen it as some type of riddle. The text does say "let he who has wisdom calculate the number". It doesn't say "let he who has wisdom avoid the number".
 
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virgilio

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Simply knowing what the number is does not require wisdom.

I'm sure something got lost in the translation there. For starters it probably does not say it is "a man's number" but rather it is "mankind's number".

Hello LastSeven greetings,
If you're right that there are missing in translation of 666 as a man's number, and rather it is mankind's number then it may be true that the whole mankind is the beast and there will be no exception because all have sinned.Romans 5:12 For this [cause], even as by one man sin entered into the world, and by sin death; and thus death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

There is no need to calculate the number, just repent for your disobedience to God and the mark and power of the beast will be defeated and overcometh.

Thank you and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio
 
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zeke37

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The Bereans searched the scriptures to see if what Paul preached was scriptural. It agrees with established precedent (since God does not contradict Himself). He does new things and they didn't have to do that to figure out what he "really was saying".
exactly true. They searched the scriptures...guess which scrpitures they searched???

What I'm saying is that a Christian, or nonbeliever can read the passage about the mark and understand perfectly what it means without any concept of types or shadows.
obviously not.
especially not without going back to the scriptures, like the ones the bearans searched, like the ones I quoted from,
and seeing what is said about a mark inbetween the eyes and on the hand.

if you didn't do this, you might think the mark is a literal mark instead of a spiritual one. ;)


It's actually not a laughing matter. It's very grave. Not only is taking the Word as it is given a grave thing (particularly since your example for others is to do otherwise), the warning given in Revelation is VERY grave.
it's not about just reading....
1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
you must understand what is going on to be able to keep it.
thinking the mark is literal, means you will prob. not keep it, because you don't know what it is.

I enjoy laughter as well, but their is a time and place for everything, and sitting there laughing about me telling you to take the Word as it is given without pointing to scriptures with a similar subject or Word that are out of context (Not even in the same book!) with what IT IS SAYING is a grave thing. You're making it say something else, which is what the cults do.
actually, i'm just pointing you to where the relevant information is in the Bible, already spelled out for you.
the prophets visions are almost never literal.
i mean, are you really looking for a literal 7 headed, 10 horned dragon?

Yes, you did.
You went so far out of context , it would be laughable except for the fact that it is a very serious warning about a literal position all people on the earth at that time will face.
i know it's a literal situation.
What i said is the mark is not literal like a visible mark, and the Bible proves this,
but you have to search the scriptures to learn.

Unbelievers are not "marked" (they are just dead) and those who choose to walk in darkness are not doomed until their time is come. ALL can seek the Lord, while He may be found (in their lifetime) -- unless they take the literal mark. If the mark is not literal, how will they know they've taken it? The enemy will accuse them.
they won't know. that is the point.
they won't even know until Christ arrives.

You see, the times on the earth will get so bad, their will be many who take the mark and want to repent and they cannot! Others who do not will eventually choose the Lord, and they can because He always receives those who call upon Him in truth to be saved (unless they've taken the physical mark).
no such physical mark exist, and the Millennium is all about refinement for those that took the "spiritual" mark of the beast.

Out of context. This is not talking about the mark in Deut, or Ex.
i explained to you already that this mark in Ex13, Deut6 and Deut11, is the mark of God,
which is described as being in the same place as the mark of the beast...
and the mark of God was not a literal mark, as the scriptures attest to.

so...do the math

You are demonstrating a quality that the deceived demonstrate. That is, taking the Word of God and making it say something it is NOT saying based on some other scripture taken out context.
but that is what the Word of God says. the mark is not physical, it's spiritual.
why are you afraid to look into the OT for relevant answers?

The what and why is that their will be a literal antichrist - beast individual.
sure will...but he won't have two literal horns like a lamb.
he will resemble Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God.

He will do as the book states.. perform signs and wonders.
i agree... supernatural events.

He will make the world worship him
i agree...all but the elect.

and take the mark or be killed.
i disagree. it is a threat and a spiritual one at that.
but u are not ready for that.

That is the literal truth. The Word says that their is a spirit of antichrist that was in the world even in John's day.
sure is, was.

That does not mean that a beast with an antichrist spirit will not be manifested on the earth.
do you really expect a literal beast, with 7 heads and 10 horns?
how about an iron beast as Daniel puts it?
how can an intelligent person believe that the beast is literal?

The thing is, even Christians can get caught up in a spirit of fear by not walking closely to the Lord and out of fear take the literal mark and be damned to Hell.
i completely disagree.
they can be deceived/seduced, into believing another Jesus...and worshiping him, thus take the mark.
but they are not damned to hell, and you cannot show "literal" scripture that says they are.

I know what happens to those believers that take the mark, but you'd have to go to the OT to find out...
and i know you won't, at least not now.

Even if they say they don't really worship the beast because they're a "believer" and take the literal mark because they want to eat or even to live, they will find out that the Word is forever settled in Heaven.
again, you are not understanding what the mark is,
but many will unknowingly take it for just those reasons u stated.

Try taking the Word as a little child. Your mysteries will start to fade and you'll find the Lord confirms His Word with anointing power.
but i'm weened off of the milk...
try a stronger diet.
You will find the Rev is revealed through the OT prophets.

If you're young enough you'll probably see the physical mark.
no such physical mark exists, but i do believe the time is near.

At that point, start receiving the Word for what it says and leave behind the so called science of reasonings.
huh? I cannot understand why you are so against going to our schoolmaster, the OT, for the answers given to us in the written Word.
deeply disturbing actually.


Again, no laughing matter.
The answers are NOT really in the OT. Our foundation is in Christ and on the apostles and (foundational) prophets, not the Law of Moses.
:doh:know where ya came from before ya know where you are going.
Jesus used the OT to prove all things.
 
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virgilio

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I see what you're saying, but I've never looked at it that way before. I've always seen it as some type of riddle. The text does say "let he who has wisdom calculate the number". It doesn't say "let he who has wisdom avoid the number".

Hello LastSeven,
You cannot avoid the mark of of the beast for the reason that as the servants of God have the seal of God on their foreheads, so the enemies of God have the mark of the beast on their foreheads or their right hand.

Rev 7:3 saying, Hurt not the earth, nor the sea, nor the trees, until we shall have sealed the bondmen of our God upon their foreheads.

Rev 22:3-4 And no curse shall be any more; and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him,

v.4 and they shall see his face; and his name [is] on their foreheads.


And here is the mark of those who worship the beast;
[FONT=&quot]Rev 13:16 And it causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bondmen, that they should give them a mark upon their right hand or upon their forehead;
[/FONT]
17 and that no one should be able to buy or sell save he that had the mark, the name of the beast, or the number of its name.

18 Here is wisdom. He that has understanding let him count the number of the beast: for it is a man's number; and its number [is] six hundred [and] sixty-six.

We had explain to you our view about this topic and it is now up to you if what mark should you choose, mark of God or mark of the beast.

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he says, Having ascended up on high, he has led captivity captive, and has given gifts to men.

[FONT=&quot]Be sure you are not brought to captivity to worship and served the beast, but took the gifts he give us, his grace of salvation through faith on his name.

Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

















[/FONT]


MORE BIBL




MOR

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Alive_Again

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exactly true. They searched the scriptures...guess which scrpitures they searched???

They searched for Messianic prophecies. The mystery of Christ was not revealed in the OT.

You're making it say something else, which is what the cults do
.
i mean, are you really looking for a literal 7 headed, 10 horned dragon?

There IS figurative language in the Bible. In this case, we're talking about a man. That's what the Word says. He is called a beast. Hand or forehead for a decision that will keep you from going to Heaven. You CAN repent if you don't take the mark. If you backslide, the enemy will tell you that you took the mark (if you believe this). How will you know?

no such physical mark exist, and the Millennium is all about refinement for those that took the "spiritual" mark of the beast.
i explained to you already that this mark in Ex13, Deut6 and Deut11, is the mark of God,

The whole world will be tried and they will have to take a literal mark or be killed. You won't be able to buy food or water in the world's system without the mark. What you explained was a deviation from the Word.

why are you afraid to look into the OT for relevant answers?

The answer is already given in the New Testament.

i completely disagree. they can be deceived/seduced, into believing another Jesus...and worshiping him, thus take the mark.
but they are not damned to hell, and you cannot show "literal" scripture that says they are.

He will set himself in the temple as God. He will not be known as Jesus. I've already given you the scripture about those who take the mark and a lake of fire, but you do not receive it.

Try taking the Word as a little child. Your mysteries will start to fade and you'll find the Lord confirms His Word with anointing power.
but i'm weened off of the milk... try a stronger diet.
You will find the Rev is revealed through the OT prophets.

I'm not talking about drinking milk. I'm talking about entering in like a child...just like Jesus said. You won't get in any other way.
 
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zeke37

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the 1st beast in Rev13 is not a man, it is a political union...multiple nations.
the number of the beast is not the mark of the beast.
the mark of the beast is not a literal tattoo or chip.
the false Jesus comes first to seduce you.
if you accept him or his kingdom, you have the mark.
his kingdom will have a currency, and that is the buying and selling part.
thinking he is God (Jesus) is the worshiping part.



i think we are done.
i've said my peace.
 
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