non denominational ordination

[chris123gx]

The first foundation of the pinnacles of church agreed, and then Pentecostal foundation was born. This was the old school foundation.
Over the years they had disagreements and separated themselves from one another.
Yet they have the same name but disagree, from other Pentecostal believes.
Now this is were non denominational churches began from other organizations that disagree from one another.
Organizations tend to have one road to follow one doctrine. That means if you do not abide by their rules, then you're not part of their organization.
Own ministries is the best way to go.

 

[1pastor]

drstevej: I agree with you about the ordinations, the certificate only states that those who sign it are only stating that they are in agreement that God has chosen the recipiant.

 

[Blaine01]

One of the issues I have is that many Pastors have been ordained that have a limited theological education at best. Many Jesus called to become his disciples were uneducated but he proceeded to give them a very good education.

 

[1pastor]

I agree, there are too many trying to preach and teach without a thorough understanding of what the Bible teaches.

 

[1pastor]

To add to my last post, there are alot who have an education that fail to understand as well- professing themselves to be wise they became as fools.

 

[Sanerive]

One of the issues I have is that many Pastors have been ordained that have a limited theological education at best. Many Jesus called to become his disciples were uneducated but he proceeded to give them a very good education.

Actually I don't know how much "education" Jesus gave to the disciples. It would seem like they would have had a lot more epistles in the Bible today than Paul who actually was "educated" and had a proportionate revelation of the Lordship of Jesus to match. But I do think that the disciples spent heaps of time poring over scripture. Plus, the disciples would have had heaps of face to face contact with dozens of other cultures giving them more plasticity to share the gospel with them vs theory-based.

 

[1pastor]

The amount of college and/or theological traing is not as relevent as how much understanding of the Bible he has. There are many who, went through college and even had seminary education, have no more understanding of what the Bible actually teaches then a rock. As the Bible says " professing themselves to be wise, they became as fools"; the reason we need to seek to ordain those who have a good understanding of the Bible and continues to study the Scriptures is so we do not have "wolves in sheep's clothing" standing in the pulpit.

 

[Sanerive]

I've been pondering on these three lately as being pretty important qualifiers: their study and understanding of the word, their ability to communicate the word, and then the ability to apply biblical teaching and principle to their own life. Do it then teach me.

 

[1pastor]

I agree with you Sanerive, those three areas are important; understandig, communicating, and applying. The problem most christians, not just the preachers, is the applying. The Bible says to love your neighbor yet alot of us as christians spend time in gossipping about them and talking about them behind their backs. Also, the Bible say to forgive yet we tend to hold grudges. We need a daily dose of Biblical application in the lives of christians today so we can show the world that we have something to offer them.

 

[Blaine01]

The amount of college and/or theological traing is not as relevent as how much understanding of the Bible he has.

Without the education the understanding is limited. How many today truly understand how our bible came about? The customs and the political environment at the time the bible was put together.
Let me give you an example, most believe polygamy is a sin. However most do not understand that it was never stated that the practice was prohibited. Actually under the Mosaic Law if a man took another wife he must not neglect his other wife or wives.

Now personally I think polygamy if a very bad idea and not socially acceptable, so please don’t think I’m in favor of it or endorse the practice in any way.

 

[Blaine01]

Organizations tend to have one road to follow one doctrine. That means if you do not abide by their rules, then you're not part of their organization.

This is pretty true in the most part. The only danger in non denominational churches is its leadership getting separating from sound doctrinal truths; let’s face it there are many today that have done just that. When a pastor has no one holding him accountable then there is always a danger of that happening.

 

[1pastor]

You do not understand the Scriptures; God always stated one man, one woman; however, in certain instances He permitted multiple wives- as God mentioned to David. The primary issue, though, with colleges and seminarys today, is the information being taught. More schools are teaching tradition over true doctrines; or teaching false doctrinse as true. If someone needs to know what thBible says and is not able to receive proper instruction, he can always ask the author. I am not saying to skip college if possible, I just say it is not as important as a true understanding of Scriptures.

 

[Blaine01]

God always stated one man, one woman; however, in certain instances He permitted multiple wives- as God mentioned to David.

Read the Mosaic Law. Please point me to the scripture that supports your statement. Apparently you feel that seminaries fail to teach Gods word accurately, but you somehow have discerned the scriptures where they have failed. That is a pretty bold comment on your part considering the education and knowledge of the professors at most Christian colleges.

 

[1pastor]

If you read my comment all the way through, I said I do not advocate not going to college; I am saying there are schools that are good sound schools and there are schools that are not so sound. Also, when God created man He said to cleave unto his wife-singular in the hebrew; Gen 2:24,25; Paul talked about one wife-singular in the greek; I cor.7:2; Eph.5:31; I Tim.3:2; these are only a few examples to support the one husband, one wife argument.

 

[Blaine01]

The books of the law are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy. Where Moses clearly stated the marital laws and polygamy was permitted. I’m fully aware of what Paul said. Remember Paul was also instructing the gentiles who were involved in all kinds of immoral activity. He never once told them that they could only have one wife other than his statement in Timothy. Jesus had the perfect opportunity to speak against polygamy when he was asked about the seven brothers taking the deceased brothers wife that had not conceived a son.

Regarding that subject, the Chinese symbol for conflict is two women under one roof, and considering I have four daughters I think the Chinese are right on. I’m only stating what the Mosaic Law permitted, not what I believe is a good idea.

This thread is supposed to be about non denomination ordination. I can remember in the 60s when a guy by the name of Hensley ordained anyone for a fee of 25 dollars, that guy made a fortune in so doing. It is my opinion that anyone wanting ordination should be well grounded in scripture and that requires a fair amount of education.

 

[SteveNZ]

If you read my comment all the way through, I said I do not advocate not going to college; I am saying there are schools that are good sound schools and there are schools that are not so sound. .......

That is so true.

I am in New Zealand and here we had a head of one of the primary bible colleges who did not believe God was real. True! Even to the extent the that a large part of that demonination effectively had a public hearing. And they identified, the man did not serve God, nor teach his way and refused to have anything with him. But you feel for the sincere folk learning at that college and seeking to serve Jesus.

There is a true testimony of a Godly man I know who studied at the college. He advised it took about two years to throw off the garbage (* please in NZ we use words like that so probably not as harsh as it sounds to many.) But to be fair all of the foundation knowledge taught was wise and required.

In this country any formal 'ordination' is not a big issue. But even in the independent churches there tends to be a formal service where the party is recognised and identified in a public ceremony. The legal aspects are soley to do with marriage celebrant status and such.

PS - I will not identify what denomination so folk please not ask. Rest assured that the godly folk within the denomination are sound and healthy. New Zealand is so small that pretty well anyone from the country can tell you who that controversial figure was.

 

[1pastor]

Blaine01; The key word in your comment is permitted. God expects a man and woman to sty married until death do them part; however, permitted a writ of divorce because of the hardness of their hearts. Also, in the matter of the seven brothers, there was no mention that they had other wives, but that the husband died and she was given to each of the brothers in turn to raise seed to the first.

 

[1pastor]

SteveNZ; Thank you for your input. I personally have met people from the different denominations who were true christians according to their beliefs; however, they were so grounded in the traditional teachings of family as well as their denominational leaders, that they could not see why they should leave their church in order to go to one who would teach the true and acceptable Word of God.

 

[Blaine01]

Explain Numbers 21:10, remember this is where Moses was giving Israel the law. I’m in complete agreement that Gods purpose is for a marriage to be monogamous and that divorce is a serious matter but allowed because He knew the hard hearts of man. I don’t see anything under the new covenant where that changed. Jesus said not one letter of the law was abolished, however the law only proved that man could not or would not live by it and history has proven that over and over.

Take a look into the customs at the time of Christ and you will find that polygamy was practiced by the Jews as well as the gentiles. It is obvious to me that the first church seen the problems with such practices and put a stop to it, and I believe they were right in doing so. I was digging through some of my church history books to see if I could find exactly when the church made the practice unacceptable for Christians but was unable to find what I was looking for. However I think it was about 400 AD, but possibly sooner.

There is no question that there are heretics preaching that shouldn’t be but Christ warned us that would happen. That is why we need to be grounded in the word and if someone is preaching contrary to scripture they are preaching a false doctrine and that is serious. The Bible is the ultimate authority for us Christians. Most doctrinal disputes have little or nothing to do with salvation.

We all probably remember Jim Jones and his cult. That was a direct result in the congregation not comparing his teachings with scripture, if they had the tragic results would never have happened.

 

[1pastor]

Numbers 21:10-"And the children of Israel set forward and pitched in O'both." I am curious what this has to do with the topic at hand? Also, in Matt.19:5 Christ was referring to a monogomous relationship when he said man shall cleave unto his wife(singular), and spake of why tthe writ of divorce was allowed further in chapter 19. This is why you haven't found in church history when polygamy stopped. Paul addressed the problems the Corinthians had in th matter of marriage and tried to propolgate the practice of monogomy. Christians were not to be conducting themselves as those around them, that is why the Bible says to come out from among them and be separate. One main problem with Christianity today is that we want to be christians but we do not want to be different then the rest of the world. we would rather blend in then stand out.