Noah's Flood Was Definitely Local, Why?

[random person]

Eber named his son Peleg for the division of the earth that occurred before Peleg was born during Eber's lifetime.

See Genesis 10:25

Now lets do the math according to Genesis 11:10-19

The Flood is Year Zero.

+2 Arphaxad is born
+35 Salah is born
+30 Eber is born
+34 Peleg is born (in whom was named for the division of the earth a la tower of Babel)

What does that add up to... 111 years. The tower of Babel occurred 111 years after the Flood.

It had to be a local flood!

Abraham was born approximately 292 years after the Flood.

 

[random person]

Now this dilemna to the global flood believers naturally raises many questions.

When did the actual construction of the tower of Babel begin?

If within decades after the flood, were Noah's descendants attempting to avenge mankind for the flood?

Or were Noah's descendants constructing this tower to reach the very ceiling of their ancient skydome cosmology beliefs and knock on Heaven's door (the firmament)?

And where did they find the LABOR? Three millennia later people were constructing medievel castles that took around 10-12 years to complete and used a ton of people labor to complete. Had Noah's descendants laid part or the whole foundation of the tower of Babel or did they miraculous achieve building some height that alarmed God?

All of this within decades after a global flood?????

Hmmm.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

If within decades after the flood, were Noah's descendants attempting to avenge mankind for the flood?

Or were Noah's descendants constructing this tower to reach the very ceiling of their ancient skydome cosmology beliefs and knock on Heaven's door (the firmament)?

Nimrod built the tower with the sole intent of sending soldiers up there to wage war. According to some myth, archers went to the top and shot arrows at the sky, which came back down stained in blood.

 

[Job8]

Nothing you have said disproves a global flood. And what exactly is your point? "I don't believe the Bible"?

 

[KWCrazy]

It had to be a local flood!

On relatively level ground with easy run-off to the sea.
Yep. Water stacks pretty easily in the Middle East.
You can cover a mountain in Ararat and not disturb the vineyards of Italy.

 

[KWCrazy]

The tower of Babel occurred 111 years after the Flood.

Others have it closer to 400 years after the flood.

 

[Aman777]

Eber named his son Peleg for the division of the earth that occurred before Peleg was born during Eber's lifetime.

See Genesis 10:25

Now lets do the math according to Genesis 11:10-19

The Flood is Year Zero.

+2 Arphaxad is born
+35 Salah is born
+30 Eber is born
+34 Peleg is born (in whom was named for the division of the earth a la tower of Babel)

What does that add up to... 111 years. The tower of Babel occurred 111 years after the Flood.

It had to be a local flood!

Abraham was born approximately 300 years after the Flood.

The flood which totally destroyed Adam's world was confined to Lake Van, Turkey, in the mountains of Ararat. Adam's firmament sank in the Lake releasing the Ark into our Biosphere on the 150th day after the flood began. Adam's world was totally destroyed and the First Human to step foot on our Earth was Noah. Amen?

 

[random person]

Others have it closer to 400 years after the flood.

No, Abraham was born just barely 292 years after the flood. So what they are saying is the flood occurred over a 100 years after Abraham was born. That is impossible.


Timeline After Noah's Flood:

Event/Person ___________________ Passage ___Total Time from Noah's Flood (years)

Two years after the Flood, Arphaxad is born Genesis 11:10 = 2 Years
Arphaxad became the father of Salah at 35. Genesis 11:12 2 + 35 = 37 Years
Salah became the father of Eber at 30. Genesis 11:14 37 + 30 = 67 Years
Eber became the father of Peleg at 34. Genesis 11:16 67 + 34 = 101 Years (Tower of Babel, Genesis 10:25)
Peleg became the father of Reu at 30. Genesis 11:18 101 + 30 = 131 Years
Reu became the father of Serug at 32. Genesis 11:20 131 + 32 = 163 Years
Serug became the father of Nahor at 30. Genesis 11:22 163 + 30 = 193 Years
Nahor became the father of Terah at 29. Genesis 11:24 193 + 29 = 222 Years
Terah became the father of Abram at 70. Genesis 11:26 222 + 70 = 292 Years (Birth of Abraham)


Timeline Of Noah's Flood!

 

[random person]

Nothing you have said disproves a global flood. And what exactly is your point? "I don't believe the Bible"?

No, there was only 292 years between the flood and Abraham's birth. Geez, civilizations sure raised quickly, the Egyptians already had a dynasty kingdom and pyramids built. In fact, the Egyptians have no record of a flood, and their civilizations predate both Abraham and the Flood.

 

[Job8]

No, there was only 292 years between the flood and Abraham's birth. Geez, civilizations sure raised quickly, the Egyptians already had a dynasty kingdom and pyramids built. In fact, the Egyptians have no record of a flood, and their civilizations predate both Abraham and the Flood.

How could Egypt's civilization (or any other) "pre-date" the Flood, when all civilizations were wiped out during the Flood? Not sure whose chronology you are following, but we don't have to rely on pagan chronologies. We need to trust the biblical account, since that is Divine revelation, not just the musings of Moses.

If the creation of Adam begins "The Year of Man" (Anno Hominis = AH), then the Flood occurred in 1650 AH and Abraham was born in 2,000 AH (the same year that Noah died). That is 350 years after the Flood. See The Chronology of the Old Testament by Martin Anstey.

 

[Aman777]

How could Egypt's civilization (or any other) "pre-date" the Flood, when all civilizations were wiped out during the Flood? Not sure whose chronology you are following, but we don't have to rely on pagan chronologies. We need to trust the biblical account, since that is Divine revelation, not just the musings of Moses.

If the creation of Adam begins "The Year of Man" (Anno Hominis = AH), then the Flood occurred in 1650 AH and Abraham was born in 2,000 AH (the same year that Noah died). That is 350 years after the Flood. See The Chronology of the Old Testament by Martin Anstey.

Amen. The Scriptural account shows that Adam's Earth was "clean dissolved" in the flood. Isa 24:19 Peter speaks of the world (kosmos) that THEN WAS being totally destroyed in the flood. We live today in the heavens and earth WHICH ARE NOW and our world will be burned. ll Peter 3:3-10

Until you realize that the Ark arrived on our planet 10-12k years ago and brought the superior intelligence of Adam, which is like God's' (Gen 3:22) to this planet of prehistoric people, the flood story doesn't become real. Amen?

 

[random person]

How could Egypt's civilization (or any other) "pre-date" the Flood, when all civilizations were wiped out during the Flood? Not sure whose chronology you are following, but we don't have to rely on pagan chronologies. We need to trust the biblical account, since that is Divine revelation, not just the musings of Moses.

If the creation of Adam begins "The Year of Man" (Anno Hominis = AH), then the Flood occurred in 1650 AH and Abraham was born in 2,000 AH (the same year that Noah died). That is 350 years after the Flood. See The Chronology of the Old Testament by Martin Anstey.

Anstey is incorrect, just add up the years between births from Arphaxad born two years after the flood to Abraham. All that matters is how many years an individual lived before the next in the genealogical line is born then how many years this newest individual lived before the next in the genealogical line is born, etc, etc, etc, etc.

How many years each individual actually lived before death is inconsequential.

Abraham was born 292 years after the flood, there is no disputing this, I don't know where Anstey is getting this addition 58 years from.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Eber named his son Peleg for the division of the earth that occurred before Peleg was born during Eber's lifetime.

See Genesis 10:25

Now lets do the math according to Genesis 11:10-19

The Flood is Year Zero.

+2 Arphaxad is born
+35 Salah is born
+30 Eber is born
+34 Peleg is born (in whom was named for the division of the earth a la tower of Babel)

What does that add up to... 111 years. The tower of Babel occurred 111 years after the Flood.

It had to be a local flood!

Abraham was born approximately 292 years after the Flood.

Abraham was born 58 years before Noah died.
The Rainbow Covenant is corroboration that the Word of God is True.
The Rainbow is not "local" .

 

[random person]

Abraham was born 58 years before Noah died.
The Rainbow Covenant is corroboration that the Word of God is True.
The Rainbow is not "local" .

No text simply says God brought a cloud and set a rainbow above the earth (erets #776, which can also be translated land).

GENESIS 9:14 HEBREW INTERLINEAR

 

[pshun2404]

Many things in Genesis were given to Moses directly from the Lord but many were not and were provided from the Histories of then extant documents and oral transmission (the book of the generations of whoevers, the book of wars, the book of Yasher, and more)...these early Mesopotamian historical documents (as indicated by others not used in writing genesis) demonstrate to us certain cultural norms that make counting time literally according to the recorded generations impossible. Some references refer to kingdoms or lengths of time not lives of individuals and many generations (as well as individuals lives) are often missing because they were blotted out or never included for one reason or another.

Bishop Usher for example dates the flood to around 2004 B.C. with 2000 years to Christ (but was Jesus born in 4 B.C., 6 B.C. and not 4 A.D. which would then be the case?...) and now it is 2015...so if he was correct Christ has come and we are in the Millennial Sabbath (which he believed in)...but we are not, so he was incorrect (though literally counted all years of every generation recorded) and then there is the Jewish Rabbis who say this is the year 5774 since Adam (when men began counting years) and others who say 5774 since Day One....

I have noticed over the past 25 years that whenever any one gets stuck on the adding and interpretation of days, weeks, years and times they usually end up conflicted or in conflict with many others...the interpretations of many false prophets and teachers have been cased on or assisted by their faulty mathematical interpretations and projections (James White, Charles Taze Russel....even Harold Camping)

So be careful brothers and sisters...we really are not sure and can get into and cause more problems then its worth...besides, this has nothing to do with whether or not the Flood was only local...if you take all the evidence together it appears world wide....but by that I mean the then known world...ALL PEOPLE before the flood were more than likely all pretty close to each other...if the flood is true then the legend carried with the dispersion over time of Noah's offspring and great grands etc....if as some propose there was a pangea like continent which then was divided that would explain a lot...

but IMO nothing said so far demonstrates the flood was only local (in the sense that there was an outside world or peoples not effected)...what reasoning supports this? Is there reasoning against this? What kinds of evidence would various camps call on?

In His love

Paul

 

[Aman777]

Many things in Genesis were given to Moses directly from the Lord but many were not and were provided from the Histories of then extant documents and oral transmission (the book of the generations of whoevers, the book of wars, the book of Yasher, and more)...these early Mesopotamian historical documents (as indicated by others not used in writing genesis) demonstrate to us certain cultural norms that make counting time literally according to the recorded generations impossible. Some references refer to kingdoms or lengths of time not lives of individuals and many generations (as well as individuals lives) are often missing because they were blotted out or never included for one reason or another.

Bishop Usher for example dates the flood to around 2004 B.C. with 2000 years to Christ (but was Jesus born in 4 B.C., 6 B.C. and not 4 A.D. which would then be the case?...) and now it is 2015...so if he was correct Christ has come and we are in the Millennial Sabbath (which he believed in)...but we are not, so he was incorrect (though literally counted all years of every generation recorded) and then there is the Jewish Rabbis who say this is the year 5774 since Adam (when men began counting years) and others who say 5774 since Day One....

I have noticed over the past 25 years that whenever any one gets stuck on the adding and interpretation of days, weeks, years and times they usually end up conflicted or in conflict with many others...the interpretations of many false prophets and teachers have been cased on or assisted by their faulty mathematical interpretations and projections (James White, Charles Taze Russel....even Harold Camping)

So be careful brothers and sisters...we really are not sure and can get into and cause more problems then its worth...besides, this has nothing to do with whether or not the Flood was only local...if you take all the evidence together it appears world wide....but by that I mean the then known world...ALL PEOPLE before the flood were more than likely all pretty close to each other...if the flood is true then the legend carried with the dispersion over time of Noah's offspring and great grands etc....if as some propose there was a pangea like continent which then was divided that would explain a lot...

but IMO nothing said so far demonstrates the flood was only local (in the sense that there was an outside world or peoples not effected)...what reasoning supports this? Is there reasoning against this? What kinds of evidence would various camps call on?

In His love

Paul

The Historic evidence shows that until Noah arrived, bringing Adam's superior intelligence to this Planet of the descendants of the common ancestor of Apes, in Lake Van, Turkey some 11k years ago, there were NO Humans here. http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/map00-fc.html The world (kosmos) that was totally destroyed in the Flood was Adam's Earth, ll Peter 3:5 releasing the Ark, and bringing Noah's grandsons, who married and produced today's Humans, by INHERITANCE, with NO magical Evolution involved. Amen?

 

[gluadys]

ALL PEOPLE before the flood were more than likely all pretty close to each other...

No, they were not. Archeological studies place human settlements on all continents other than Antarctica over 10,000 years ago, possibly as much as 20,000 years ago, with the Americas the last to be penetrated by humans. Humanity had colonized Europe, Central Asia, South Asia and Australia as much as 40,000 years ago. And the whole continent of Africa at least 60,000 years ago. There is no way they could all have been "pretty close" to each other only 4000 years ago or even 10,000 years ago. (Note, I am speaking only of H. sapiens, not including H. neaderthalensis or other hominin relatives.)

That is why, if Noah and his family were the only human survivors of the Flood, it had to be global.

However, both archeology and geology, and now biology (lack of a universal bottleneck in terrestrial species) also make it clear that any historic flood had to be local.

So there was either a global flood that destroyed all humanity outside the Ark or a local flood that left millions of people unaffected. The two concepts cannot be mixed.

This is why I insist on distinguishing a historical flood from a literary flood.

A historical flood in the relevant location at the relevant time had to be local.
A literary flood, such as we have in the account of Noah and the Ark, had to be global.

These are not the same flood. But the historical local flood could be the inspiration for the global literary flood.

 

[nobdysfool]

Eber named his son Peleg for the division of the earth that occurred before Peleg was born during Eber's lifetime.

See Genesis 10:25

Now lets do the math according to Genesis 11:10-19

The Flood is Year Zero.

+2 Arphaxad is born
+35 Salah is born
+30 Eber is born
+34 Peleg is born (in whom was named for the division of the earth a la tower of Babel)

What does that add up to... 111 years. The tower of Babel occurred 111 years after the Flood.

It had to be a local flood!

Abraham was born approximately 292 years after the Flood.

Were you there? This is all just opinion.

 

[random person]

Were you there? This is all just opinion.

It is ludicrous to believe every species was upon the ark.

Every species was provided its own diet.

Every species was provided its own ecosystem upon the ark.

Every carnivorous species would be provided a year's worth of meat without spoilage. What did the carnivores hunt and eat immediately after the flood. Other survivors of the flood?????

Every herbivore/omnivore species found available food immediately after the flood.

Every seed was collected and replanted over the whole earth. And who replanted these seeds and what about post-flood habitat destruction.

Species travelled upwards of tens of thousands of miles to live on ark for a whole year and then migrated back to their own respective pre-flood "habitats". Many species have a very slow locomotion rendering the trek impossible.

How the Egyptians and their extensive writings never spoke of a flood and their dynasties predate the flood. Their dynasties go on uninterrupted without any catastrophe.

Where did the Egyptians come from post-flood and how did they become a dynasty so quickly in the days of Abraham?

 

[Aman777]

1. No, they were not. Archeological studies place human settlements on all continents other than Antarctica over 10,000 years ago, possibly as much as 20,000 years ago, with the Americas the last to be penetrated by humans. Humanity had colonized Europe, Central Asia, South Asia and Australia as much as 40,000 years ago. And the whole continent of Africa at least 60,000 years ago. There is no way they could all have been "pretty close" to each other only 4000 years ago or even 10,000 years ago. (Note, I am speaking only of H. sapiens, not including H. neaderthalensis or other hominin relatives.)

2. That is why, if Noah and his family were the only human survivors of the Flood, it had to be global.

3. However, both archeology and geology, and now biology (lack of a universal bottleneck in terrestrial species) also make it clear that any historic flood had to be local.

So there was either a global flood that destroyed all humanity outside the Ark or a local flood that left millions of people unaffected. The two concepts cannot be mixed.

This is why I insist on distinguishing a historical flood from a literary flood.

A historical flood in the relevant location at the relevant time had to be local.
A literary flood, such as we have in the account of Noah and the Ark, had to be global.

These are not the same flood. But the historical local flood could be the inspiration for the global literary flood.

1. The people you are calling Humans are actually the sons of God (prehistoric people) who were NOT Humans (descendants of Adam) meaning they did NOT have Adam's superior intelligence which is like God's. Gen 3:22

2. False. It was limited to the largest Lake in Turkey. Adam's world (kosmos) was "totally destroyed" in the Flood and today is at the bottom of the 1500 ft deep Lake.

3. It was a Global flood for the people of Adam's world, but NOT for our Planet. The reason for this is because the traditional religious view has misunderstood the story of the Flood for thousands of years now. God told us it would be this way since He hid His Truth from ancient people and it can be understood ONLY by people of the present last days.

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.