No One Man Pastor ministry over all

[LoveofTruth]

To all,

consider King Saul. The people were hearing from God through the prohetic word, and they wanted a king over them like all the other nations > God warned them of this that they would stop having him to lead them. And he warned that this man would bring them into bondage and take of them etc. But they still wanted one. And we see Saul, who killed the Levite priest. This is a type for us of the one man ministry who kills the priesthood of all believers.

Today believers dont say "give us a king" they say , when they have no pastor, "give us a pastor" But the same killing of the priesthood of believers ( spiritually) happens

 

[Open Heart]

they simply appointed some for the daily ministration of others.

Read it again. It had to do with teaching of the word.

 

[Open Heart]

wrong again.

Yes we see the Paul and Timothy as apostles set in order things that are lacking in the churches and others as well. Jesus also told the apostle to go into a city and find a house that was worthy and where the peace would remain, and to stay there. This would have taught the apostle how to plant churches. Jesus also commanded the believers to meet in a house on pentecost in the upper room.

and you keep using the words "church buildings". this is wrong and unbiblical. Jesus came to build his church and he does this as the head effectually working in the measure of every part to make increase of the body unto the edifying [ building up as a housebuilder] of itself in love.

Paul taught the same things and the same way of planting churches to every church everywhere. he even rebuked the Corinthians for thinking they could do differently. remember the letters to the churches we read are some 50 years, 60 years or older after Christ death, and they were still meeting in homes. This went for about 300 years yes there is one record of a home having the walls knocked out to make a bit more room. But this was still in homes. Constantine changed everything and he was a pagan emperor influenced by pagan ideas as history shows clearly.

We see clearly that God commands all believers to use their gifts and to not hinder this 1 Cor 14;26-38. If men do not obey this command they are ignorant and should not be received. So if believers are swayed to meet in large pagan temple type structures and call them the church. This immediately displaces the functioning of the church and redefines what a church is. This quenches the spirit in the body from mutual edification. And to make it worse they set a one man over all to cntrol everyone and act as if the beleivrs do need a man to teach them and be the authority and have dominion over them. All contrary to scripture and the apostles doctrine and set order and commands from God.

There is nothing in this post that I haven't already replied to more than adequately.

 

[Open Heart]

The church is the body of Christ

You need to read English. Church is ALSO a building.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Paul placed Timothy in authority over the Church at Ephesus. He instructs Timothy, "Command and teach these things." (1 Tim 4:11)

wrong again, and you are not rightly dividing the word. It reads

"These things command and teach.
12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity."

what things?. The word of God that Paul wrote to him, thats what. Paul said when believers received the word from him they received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth the word of God which effectually worketh in those that believe. The word of God is the authority/ Jesus SPOKE ( the word) as one having authority, not as the scribes...

also notice how Timothy was to help others by "example, in word and deed.

Paul when seeking to minister to others , used persuasion, convincing and discussion. He appealed to that of God in men and by a manifestation of the truth in their hearts by God he commended himself to every man. Paul as John knew that believers have no need that any man should teach them. he knew that the word of God would guide them and build them up. That is why he said to the Colossians to let the word of Christ dwell in you richly teaching and admonishing one another. he also told the Ephesian elders that he commended them to God and the word of His grace which is able to build them up.

Paul said

' not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God." 2 Corinthians 4:2

"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. "1 Timothy 2;13

so you see that it was not Timothy in his person or some title that the authority came from. But rather THESE THINGS, that paul wrote, which were the word of God.

paul also says similar to another apostolic worker Titus about authority and he says,

"These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee." Titus 2:15

here again THESE THINGS refers to the truth he wrote to Titus to speak. Just as we today can use all scripture for correction and instruction he could also.

so again you make a grave error and place authority in a mans person and role rather than in the word of God

 

[LoveofTruth]

There is nothing in this post that I haven't already replied to more than adequately.

Jesus commanding to meet in homes and showing apostolic workers how to do this is new

 

[LoveofTruth]

You need to read English. Church is ALSO a building.

No, not the church that Jesus is building. This is very basic and you are stuck in this error it seems many seem to try very hard to defend their religious traditions but they cannot do it with the holy scriptures and the faith that was once delivered to the saints. The church order has also once been delivered to the saints. those who plant churches now as i do, do not need to make up some new order . They follow the apostolic order shown in scripture and the leading of the Spirit.

the church that Jesus Christ is building is NEVER a man made building. EVER. That error came in mainly around 325 AD and onward

 

[LoveofTruth]

Read it again. It had to do with teaching of the word.

They simply wanted brothers who could be sound in all things to do such work. This is not the way you are making it

 

[Open Heart]

wrong again, and you are not rightly dividing the word. It reads

It doesn't matter WHAT Tim ordered to command and teach. It matters that he could COMMAND. This is what I mean when I say that he is an authority over the Church at Ephesus--that he could command.

 

[Open Heart]

the church that Jesus Christ is building is NEVER a man made building. EVER. That error came in mainly around 325 AD and onward

Error? There is nothing wrong in building a church. You tell me how you are going to make room for 4000 families with one presbyter and 3 deacons (and myriads of volunteers).

 

[Open Heart]

They simply wanted brothers who could be sound in all things to do such work. This is not the way you are making it

Not everyone could be trusted to teach the gospel as the Apostles taught it. Those that were trustworthy were ordained.

 

[LoveofTruth]

It doesn't matter WHAT Tim ordered to command and teach. It matters that he could COMMAND. This is what I mean when I say that he is an authority over the Church at Ephesus--that he could command.

Paul wrote scripture and said to the Corinthians "the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord" so when Paul wrote to Timothy or titus he wrote the commands of the Lord. So for Timothy or titus to command that men obey the word. This is sound. If I say to another person who is teaching false doctrine that they are wrong by scripture and there is a direction that they must take to follow Christ. They are commanded to do that. But it comes from God, and his word not me. If we command some that they teach no other doctrine or charge them or exhort them. we do so based upon Gods command and word.

I am curious how you understand this verse?

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.:" 1 John 2:27

 

[LoveofTruth]

Error? There is nothing wrong in building a church. You tell me how you are going to make room for 4000 families with one presbyter and 3 deacons (and myriads of volunteers).

I could do it as God leads, I would need a few other apostolic workers as well, and others with many gifts to. But I would share Gods truth according to the word and His order to all first then. I would find the houses of peace where believers could meet. And direct them to set in order things that are lacking, where they can all wait on the Lord for ministry and have a meal together and fellowship. I would them commend them to God and the word of His grace which is able to build them up. There may be no elders at first, they take time to mature. But there may be sme. Paul went back to other assemblies they planted and recognized elders later. They had no elders or oversight for many months sometimes. Then they went back and recognized them. This is because God will give gifts to certain people and some will be called and made overseers by the Holy Ghost. Then I and others would recognize them and we would pray for them. But this would not put them in some exalted position over others. They are also accountable and all should submit to one another . Because all can have the word of God in them as well and share from the life.

I would also spend time with them in establishing the faith once delivered to the saints and sound doctrine. Your gathering is Hebrew catholic. I may have to address some issues and doctrines as well.

 

[Open Heart]

So for Timothy or titus to command that men obey the word. This is sound.

Of course it is. But not every Christian has the authority to COMMAND it.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Not everyone could be trusted to teach the gospel as the Apostles taught it. Those that were trustworthy were ordained.

Paul wanted the order he had from God to be given to faithful men who could teach others also. This was all that he taught and did. Babes in the body are unskillful in the word of righteousness but mature brothers are more skillful and can discern good and evil. This is very needful for the body. But they simply watch over others and have a burden for the body and care for the saints. This is for the good of others. They are not as dictators or lords or exalted men .

 

[Open Heart]

I could do it

No you couldn't.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Of course it is. But not every Christian has the authority to COMMAND it.

That the wrong way of speaking about authority. The authority is in the word. Jesus said that all power has been given unto him and he gives this power and authority to those who walk with him n the word. Even a baby christian who has the word of God has more authority than a Pope without it. does that make sense?

 

[LoveofTruth]

No you couldn't.

By the grace of God I could

 

[Open Heart]

mature brothers

A Christian can have been a Christian for 54 years, and not have the depth of understanding to teach. (I'm talking about myself). To teach with authority takes years of training in the gospel. Unless of course you want shoddy teaching that is all milk.

 

[Open Heart]

O

That the wrong way of speaking about authority. The authority is in the word. Jesus said that all power has been given unto him and he gives this power and authority to those who walk with him n the word. Even a baby christian who has the word of God has more authority than a Pope without it. does that make sense?

Of course the word of God has authority. But we need someone to interpret it for us rightly -- think of all the people who read the Bible and reach heretical conclusions. That takes a special person. That's why in Acts 6 they ORDAINED just seven to teach the word.