No one knows who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him

[EmSw]

Of course they would not let Him, since they were not of God, they did not listen to Christ or God and so then did not repent of their unbelief.
All of this is why Christ says you must be born again or you will not see or enter the kingdom of God.
The teaching here is simple, that the natural man will not receive the things of the Spirit.
So we read the truth, Christ shows us this as an example of natural man who is not willing to be saved.
man will not be willing to come to Christ unless he gets a heart transplant.

Wow, I sure wished people would read and understand the words Jesus spoke.

Luke 7
36 Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the Pharisee’s house, and sat down to eat.
37 And behold, a woman in the city who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil,
38 and stood at His feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed them with the fragrant oil.
39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he spoke to himself, saying, “This Man, if He were a prophet, would know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a sinner.”
40 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.” So he said, “Teacher, say it.”
41 “There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.
42 And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?”
43 Simon answered and said, “I suppose the one whom he forgave more.” And He said to him, “You have rightly judged.”
44 Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head.
45 You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in.
46 You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil.
47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”
48 Then He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
49 And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”
50 Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”

This sinful woman came to Jesus on her own. Yet you say a sinner cannot do this. God did not have to destroy her wisdom in order to get her to humble herself before Him. She humbled herself. It was when her faith, along with her actions were accomplished, Jesus said YOUR FAITH HAS SAVED YOU.

 

[Job8]

What does this passage mean? Jesus must will/intend/desire to reveal The Father to someone?

We should never take a Scripture in isolation. Christ desires to reveal the Father to ALL who will believe on Him and receive Him. But those who oppose Him and reject Him will never see the relationship between the Father and the Son. Those who attack the Deity of Christ and the doctrine of the triune Godhead will not have the Father revealed to them.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. (John 14:8-11).

 

[bottomofsandal]

Of course they would not let Him, since they were not of God, they did not listen to Christ or God and so then did not repent of their unbelief.
All of this is why Christ says you must be born again or you will not see or enter the kingdom of God.
The teaching here is simple, that the natural man will not receive the things of the Spirit.
So we read the truth, Christ shows us this as an example of natural man who is not willing to be saved.
man will not be willing to come to Christ unless he gets a heart transplant.

Jesus had these words for The Pharisees:

John 8:23-27 New King James Version (NKJV)
23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

25 Then they said to Him, “Who are You?”

And Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him.”

27 They did not understand that He spoke to them of the Father.

 

[bottomofsandal]

We should never take a Scripture in isolation. Christ desires to reveal the Father to ALL who will believe on Him and receive Him. But those who oppose Him and reject Him will never see the relationship between the Father and the Son. Those who attack the Deity of Christ and the doctrine of the triune Godhead will not have the Father revealed to them.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. (John 14:8-11).

Kinda maybe. After 3 years of teaching the disciples...
The verses you quoted are in response to "show us The Father".
Jesus said if you have seen Me, then you have seen The Father.


Christ desires to reveal the Father to ALL who will believe on Him and receive Him.<<< you wrote this
Can you show us where Jesus said this? How would a man come to believe in Jesus without a revelation?
Put another way, there must be something to believe in first. Wondering how there is belief BEFORE revelation.

 

[Job8]

Put another way, there must be something to believe in first. Wondering how there is belief BEFORE revelation.

Surely you have heard of something called the Gospel. There is your answer.

 

[sdowney717]

Wow, I sure wished people would read and understand the words Jesus spoke.

Luke 7
36 Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the Pharisee’s house, and sat down to eat.
37 And behold, a woman in the city who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil,
38 and stood at His feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed them with the fragrant oil.
39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he spoke to himself, saying, “This Man, if He were a prophet, would know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a sinner.”
40 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.” So he said, “Teacher, say it.”
41 “There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty.
42 And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?”
43 Simon answered and said, “I suppose the one whom he forgave more.” And He said to him, “You have rightly judged.”
44 Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head.
45 You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in.
46 You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil.
47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”
48 Then He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
49 And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”
50 Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”

This sinful woman came to Jesus on her own. Yet you say a sinner cannot do this. God did not have to destroy her wisdom in order to get her to humble herself before Him. She humbled herself. It was when her faith, along with her actions were accomplished, Jesus said YOUR FAITH HAS SAVED YOU.

No she did not come on her own, she was drawn to Christ by God.
All that God draws to Christ He saves.

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Did she come to Christ? Yes she did.

 

[EmSw]

No she did not come on her own, she was drawn to Christ by God.
All that God draws to Christ He saves.

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Did she come to Christ? Yes she did.

If that's your reasoning, then the Pharisees and scribes were drawn to Jesus by God also. Therefore we see not all who are drawn will be saved. So you can't use being drawn by God as confirmation of salvation.

 

[sdowney717]

If that's your reasoning, then the Pharisees and scribes were drawn to Jesus by God also. Therefore we see not all who are drawn will be saved. So you can't use being drawn by God as confirmation of salvation.

But you miss something, Jesus tells her that her sins are forgiven. So she was drawn to the savior for forgiveness of her sins, while the pharisees and scribes were not drawn, Christ does not forgive them.

All those drawn get saved, so then she was drawn by God.
You do not believe Christ's words either I see in John 6.

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[sdowney717]

John 6, Jesus says God must grant you to come to Christ or you will not come to Him.
Jesus says this in response to those disciples who turn away. So then they were not granted (foreknown and predestined) by God to come to Christ. They do not believe because they were not granted to come to Christ.

Many Disciples Turn Away
60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

 

[EmSw]

But you miss something, Jesus tells her that her sins are forgiven. So she was drawn to the savior for forgiveness of her sins, while the pharisees and scribes were not drawn, Christ does not forgive them.

All those drawn get saved, so then she was drawn by God.
You do not believe Christ's words either I see in John 6.

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

And I see you don't believe Christ's words either in John 6.

45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

No one is drawn unless they are taught by God. They have to hear and understand first. And then we have this from John 6 -

54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Once a man is taught by God, hears, understands, and believes, he must eat His flesh and drink His blood. If you don't know what that means, then how do you know you have eaten and drunk?

So, being drawn to Christ is more than just a 'little stroll' to Him. It involves things a man must do. Yes, sdowney, let's use John 6 for salvation, but use it ALL, not just one verse.

 

[EmSw]

Now, let's look a little farther to see if we can see other passages concerning being raised. We only have to look at chapter 5 of John 6.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

We have a great revelation from the Savior concerning the resurrection. We know from chapter 6, the resurrection involves being taught by God, learning, understanding, and believing in the Savior. After we are drawn to Christ, we must eat His flesh and drink His blood. Then in the verses above, we see doing good is also involved. Most only want believing and leave the rest out.

Is it because the reprobate is predestined by God, that he doesn't come to Jesus? Absolutely NO! This is utter foolishness. Jesus says this in verse 40 -

But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

It has NOTHING to do with predestination like many want to believe. It's the will of man that decides whether he comes to Jesus. It's better to hear and understand Jesus than the WCF. And only Jesus' words have life, not the WCF.

 

[sdowney717]

And I see you don't believe Christ's words either in John 6.

45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

No one is drawn unless they are taught by God. They have to hear and understand first. And then we have this from John 6 -

54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Once a man is taught by God, hears, understands, and believes, he must eat His flesh and drink His blood. If you don't know what that means, then how do you know you have eaten and drunk?

So, being drawn to Christ is more than just a 'little stroll' to Him. It involves things a man must do. Yes, sdowney, let's use John 6 for salvation, but use it ALL, not just one verse.

The all being taught are the ones that He drew.

Christ quotes from Isaiah 54:13 in the verse about learning from the Holy Father, where God tells us about His people who are saved.
They are described as your children, so then His children who are saved, they belong to Him, not the world.

13 All your children shall be taught by the Lord,
And great shall be the peace of your children.
14 In righteousness you shall be established;
You shall be far from oppression, for you shall not fear;
And from terror, for it shall not come near you.


Isaiah 54New King James Version (NKJV)
A Perpetual Covenant of Peace
54 “Sing, O barren,
You who have not borne!
Break forth into singing, and cry aloud,
You who have not labored with child!
For more are the children of the desolate
Than the children of the married woman,” says the Lord.
2 “Enlarge the place of your tent,
And let them stretch out the curtains of your dwellings;
Do not spare;
Lengthen your cords,
And strengthen your stakes.
3 For you shall expand to the right and to the left,
And your descendants will inherit the nations,
And make the desolate cities inhabited.

4 “Do not fear, for you will not be ashamed;
Neither be disgraced, for you will not be put to shame;
For you will forget the shame of your youth,
And will not remember the reproach of your widowhood anymore.
5 For your Maker is your husband,
The Lord of hosts is His name;
And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel;
He is called the God of the whole earth.
6 For the Lord has called you
Like a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit,
Like a youthful wife when you were refused,”
Says your God.
7 “For a mere moment I have forsaken you,
But with great mercies I will gather you.
8 With a little wrath I hid My face from you for a moment;
But with everlasting kindness I will have mercy on you,”
Says the Lord, your Redeemer.

9 “For this is like the waters of Noah to Me;
For as I have sworn
That the waters of Noah would no longer cover the earth,
So have I sworn
That I would not be angry with you, nor rebuke you.
10 For the mountains shall depart
And the hills be removed,
But My kindness shall not depart from you,
Nor shall My covenant of peace be removed,”
Says the Lord, who has mercy on you.

11 “O you afflicted one,
Tossed with tempest, and not comforted,
Behold, I will lay your stones with colorful gems,
And lay your foundations with sapphires.
12 I will make your pinnacles of rubies,
Your gates of crystal,
And all your walls of precious stones.
13 All your children shall be taught by the Lord,
And great shall be the peace of your children.
14 In righteousness you shall be established;
You shall be far from oppression, for you shall not fear;
And from terror, for it shall not come near you.
15 Indeed they shall surely assemble, but not because of Me.
Whoever assembles against you shall fall for your sake.

16 “Behold, I have created the blacksmith
Who blows the coals in the fire,
Who brings forth an instrument for his work;
And I have created the spoiler to destroy.
17 No weapon formed against you shall prosper,
And every tongue which rises against you in judgment
You shall condemn.
This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord,
And their righteousness is from Me,”
Says the Lord.

 

[EmSw]

The all being taught are the ones that He drew.

You don't learn before being taught. You are taught first and learn from the teachings. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Jesus.

Quit striving to prove your beliefs.

 

[sdowney717]

You don't learn before being taught. You are taught first and learn from the teachings. Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Jesus.

Quit striving to prove your beliefs.

Do you read a sentence with any understanding?
They are first drawn.
44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’

Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.


Christ already said no one can come to Him unless God draws them first.
They are drawn in the hearing!
They have heard the call.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by the word of God!

 

[sdowney717]

Romans 10:17Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)

17 So faith comes by hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself).

You must be able to hear, and He must speak to you also or you are not being drawn to Christ by God.
Fact is if your not of God then you do not hear God's words.

John 8 YLT
45 `And because I say the truth, ye do not believe me.

46 Who of you doth convict me of sin? and if I speak truth, wherefore do ye not believe me?

47 he who is of God, the sayings of God he doth hear; because of this ye do not hear, because of God ye are not.'

How so? because God did not draw them to Christ.
Clearly Christ tells them 'of God ye are not.'
They actually are of Satan as are all unbelievers who follow the prince of the power of the air, who never do repent and believe. They are all of them dogs and pigs and swine and goats and wolves and scorpions, the sons of disobedience, in a spiritual condition. Certainly not any kind of sheep.

 

[Uber Genius]

What does this passage mean?
Jesus must will/intend/desire to reveal The Father to someone?
Are we to believe a man would (not could) reject a Divine revelation by God?

Is this how knowledge of God is obtained (Divine revelation), if not, then how?
Are we being told that God can intimately reveal knowledge of Himself as He pleases?
Is it necessary for Jesus to reveal God to a man in order for that man to be saved?


Luke 10:22 New King James Version (NKJV)
22 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”

No!

We want to interpret in the context of the whole passage.

If you outline Matthew you will see that Jesus sends out the 12 then reveals himself as messiah, then reveals his godly nature in the tansfiguration (on Mount Hermon) where Bael, Satan is supposed to have come to earth and where he rules from based on second temple Judaic tradition.

So Jesus has just thrown the gauntlet in Satan's face and then had the audacity to send the 70 (72 I some translations) out.

What is important about the 70? Does it ring any bells? Gen 10.

The 70 conquer, overcome the demonic power in Luke 10. They destroy Satan's kingdom and replace it with the kingdom of God.

Jesus sees Satan fall like an angel of light.

So it is in this cosmic warfare context that we see Jesus quote the passage. It is not a general passage about how we 2000 year later are to know God.

John 16:12-15New International Version (NIV)
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”

John 17:20 reads,

20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message."

Jesus reveal himself to the disciples. He reveals God's message partially, because they can't bare the full knowledge, and then the HS leads the disciples (don't miss the context here) disciples are called to deliver the message they received. This is the two key rules (canons) that identify scripture in both testaments from non scripture.

1 - Calling by God or Jesus
2 - eyewitness testimony

While the HS will lead you today, we are to build on the transmitted foundation of scripture (sorry The Apocapha doesn't fulfill those requirements according to Popes and Church fathers).

Hope this helps.