No one has ever seen God

[Gary51]

According to I John 4:12, no one has ever seen God.

So, how can Jesus be God? And how can anyone be in heaven?

 

[Montalban]

John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

John 6:46 Not that any man has seen the Father, save he which is of God, he has seen the Father.

I John 4:12 No man has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwells in us, and his love is perfected in us.

According to I John 4:12, no one has ever seen God.

So, how can Jesus be God? And how can anyone be in heaven?

God the Father has not been seen by any person

If we were to take the passage as meaning no one ever has seen any part of God (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) it would contradict the following:
John 6:46, "No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God (meaning Himself). Only He has seen the Father."

Jesus, who is God Incarnate, has been seen. God the Father has not been seen.

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knows who the Son is but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

 

[Gary51]

God the Father has not been seen by any person

So how can anyone be in heaven with God?

If we were to take the passage as meaning no one ever has seen any part of God (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) it would contradict the following:

There is no mention of parts. The verse just says, no one has seen God.

John 6:46, "No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God (meaning Himself). Only He has seen the Father."

If only Jesus has seen God how can there be anyone in heaven?

Jesus, who is God Incarnate, has been seen.

You missed the verse for that one. Can you show me?

God the Father has not been seen.

So how can there be anyone in heaven?

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knows who the Son is but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

If no one knows the father, how can there be anyone in heaven?

 

[Tyndale]

Jacob said he seen God. Gen 32:30 "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved"

However Hosea said it was an angel Jacob seen "Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed"

 

[Montalban]

So how can anyone be in heaven with God?

It's a paradox that God is both knowable, and in his essence unknowable.

Just like I know you, because we talk with each other, but I don't know everything about you, not in your essence. And probably you don't know everything about you.

We can experience God's love which we will do in heaven.

I don't think we sit around on clouds all day staring at God.

We can also know God the Father through the Son.

There is no mention of parts. The verse just says, no one has seen God.

That's true, but I would never take a single verse out of the context of the Bible and work a theory on that.

If only Jesus has seen God how can there be anyone in heaven?[/quote]
As above I think 'seen' here means 'know'

We can't, in his essence know God, but he is still knowable.

 

[Montalban]

I'm beginning to see red

 

[OpenDoor]

John is talking about the Father

This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.
1 John 4:9

And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1 John 4:14

 

[Gary51]

It's a paradox that God is both knowable, and in his essence unknowable.

Just like I know you, because we talk with each other, but I don't know everything about you, not in your essence. And probably you don't know everything about you.

We can experience God's love which we will do in heaven.

I don't think we sit around on clouds all day staring at God.

We can also know God the Father through the Son.


That's true, but I would never take a single verse out of the context of the Bible and work a theory on that.

If only Jesus has seen God how can there be anyone in heaven?

As above I think 'seen' here means 'know'

We can't, in his essence know God, but he is still knowable.[/quote]

Where are the verses that back up your claims?

John said, no one has ever seen God, which comfirms what Jesus Himself said in John 3:13.

 

[Stryder06]

Daniel "saw" the Father in vision, he called Him The Ancient of Days.

I believe that people haven't seen the Father the way we've seen Jesus. I think that His Presence has been seen, possibly even His form, but covered by His glory.

 

[heymikey80]

According to I John 4:12, no one has ever seen God.

So, how can Jesus be God? And how can anyone be in heaven?

Well, John is the person writing both:

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
​

and

No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known. John 1:18
​

Is John talking at cross purposes with himself? I think it's clearer that John is talking about a specific kind of "no one", a conventional "no one", not a theological, comprehensive "no one". John's point doesn't include the dead, or the angels, etc. He's simply saying, "Ytalk to people, and nobody's really seen God -- [before now] -- but the only God at the Father's side, He [God the Son] has made him [the unseen Father] known."

 

[Gary51]

Daniel "saw" the Father in vision, he called Him The Ancient of Days.

That would contradict John who said no one has ever seen God at any time. Therefore Daniel's vision was just a vision.

I believe that people haven't seen the Father the way we've seen Jesus. I think that His Presence has been seen, possibly even His form, but covered by His glory.

To what verse does your belief derive? It seems to me that your imagination is at work here!

John said no one has ever seen God. What verse says His Presence has been seen?

 

[Gary51]

Well, John is the person writing both:

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
​

and

No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known. John 1:18
​

Is John talking at cross purposes with himself? I think it's clearer that John is talking about a specific kind of "no one", a conventional "no one", not a theological, comprehensive "no one". John's point doesn't include the dead, or the angels, etc. He's simply saying, "Ytalk to people, and nobody's really seen God -- [before now] -- but the only God at the Father's side, He [God the Son] has made him [the unseen Father] known."

Where is the verse that states John's statement does not include the dead?

And what verse says no one has seen God before now?

 

[Emmy]

Dear Gary51. We know God-Father, God-Son, and God-Holy Spirit, 3 persons/beings, but only One great and powerful God. When Jesus came to Earth as we are, human and born of woman, He kept calling Himself " son of man." He was seen for about 33 years by the than living men and women. After He had paid our debt to God`s Holy Law, and God had raised Him, He told His disciples: " do not be sad, I am going back to the Father." There Jesus, God-Son, part of God, is our Intercessor who pleads our prayers to God. Father, Son and Holy Spirit, ONE GOD. God-Holy Spirit is in the world today, to finish the work which Jesus has started: " redeeming Mankind." I say this humbly and with love, Gary. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Gary51]

Dear Gary51. We know God-Father, God-Son, and God-Holy Spirit, 3 persons/beings, but only One great and powerful God. When Jesus came to Earth as we are, human and born of woman, He kept calling Himself " son of man." He was seen for about 33 years by the than living men and women. After He had paid our debt to God`s Holy Law, and God had raised Him, He told His disciples: " do not be sad, I am going back to the Father." There Jesus, God-Son, part of God, is our Intercessor who pleads our prayers to God. Father, Son and Holy Spirit, ONE GOD. God-Holy Spirit is in the world today, to finish the work which Jesus has started: " redeeming Mankind." I say this humbly and with love, Gary. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Thanks for that, but what is your point?

Are you saying that John was wrong when he said no one has ever seen God?

 

[Cross Reference]

John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

John 6:46 Not that any man has seen the Father, save he which is of God, he has seen the Father.

Do you believe the word "declare" actually means, seen or saw? And that which is of God can mean other than it was the "Word" who saw Him. And the word "bosom", what does that mean?

I think we are too loose with words we should be paying more attention when reading them.

Jesus, who is God Incarnate, has been seen. God the Father has not been seen.

You must mean the "Word" was incarnated?

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knows who the Son is but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

And on the MT Transfiguration, that happened to a select few.

 

[Stryder06]

That would contradict John who said no one has ever seen God at any time. Therefore Daniel's vision was just a vision.

To what verse does your belief derive? It seems to me that your imagination is at work here!

John said no one has ever seen God. What verse says His Presence has been seen?

It's not about contradiction, it's about understanding it in context. As I said, Daniel saw the Father, and when I say it like that I mean, and this is what I believe personally, that he saw a representation of the Father. A likeness if you will.

Visions should be understood in the context in which they are placed.

 

[sawdust]

According to I John 4:12, no one has ever seen God.

So, how can Jesus be God? And how can anyone be in heaven?

Jesus is both God and man. When we look at Jesus we see God through His humanity.

The humanity of Christ is the perfect expression of God. (Col.1:15 - 20)

If God the Son was not also 100% man? We would still not see God.

In John 14, Phillip asked to see the Father. Jesus replied to see Jesus is to see the Father.

People can be in heaven because that is where Christ is, seated at the right hand of the Father.

The perfect humanity of Christ exegetes God to us in a way that we can see and understand.

peace

 

[Cross Reference]

Jesus is both God and man. When we look at Jesus we see God through His humanity

.

If that was the case, as you put it, His glory would have prevented anyone from looking at Him. Something is not being understood here.

The humanity of Christ is the perfect expression of God. (Col.1:15 - 20)

In Human form. That can't ever be argued.

If God the Son was not also 100% man? We would still not see God.

God the Son, is only after He earned His position in the Godhead. "He learned by His obedience" and God, the Father, gave the man Jesus a Name above all Names who is coming again in clouds of Glory.

In John 14, Phillip asked to see the Father. Jesus replied to see Jesus is to see the Father.

Yes, and that should be asked of us and rightly answered if we understood our privilege in Christ Jesus.

People can be in heaven because that is where Christ is, seated at the right hand of the Father.

For now and when "all things both in Earth and in Heaven are summed up in Him, He will be God, all three personalities of the Godhead as Divinely Human.

The perfect humanity of Christ exegetes God to us in a way that we can see and understand.

peace

Absolutely, right on.

know I butted in on this. Please accept my apologies. You are on a subject dear to my heart.

My best to you,

Cross

 

[Gary51]

It's not about contradiction, it's about understanding it in context.

Who has the correct understanding of context? Many make the claim!

As I said, Daniel saw the Father,

Jonn say he hasn't.

and when I say it like that I mean, and this is what I believe personally, that he saw a representation of the Father. A likeness if you will.

I tend to side on the side of what scripture states rather than someone's personal belief from their imagination.

John 5:37 (New International Version)
37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,

Visions should be understood in the context in which they are placed.

Correct, but who has the correct undertanding in which to place the context?

 

[Cross Reference]

"The pure in heart shall see God". When Jesus said this He made no inferences to it being sometime in the future but that the possibly is for now simply because a pure heart is possible from that one whose faith is acutely in God.. It becomes a heart through which God has made the deposit of Himself to be revealed and that it might be recognized.