No Man hath ascended up to heaven

jacobs well

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Hundreds of millions of Christians believe they will go to heaven when they die.
They believe their loved ones who have passed away are hopefully there even now.
Heaven is spoken of as the place of God's throne.
But how strange it is that Christ would say " No man hath ascended up to heaven ".
Did He mean the great men of the bible like Abraham, Noah, Moses, Elijah, and David are not in Heaven now?
I can't find any passage in the Bible that actually says " we will go to heaven when we die " or " When we get to heaven "
There is little about what we will be doing once we get to heaven in scripture if that was the case.
Is heaven really the reward of the righteous or does God have something else in mind for us?
Interestingly, you can find in ancient pagan religion , not the bible, that a soul goes to heaven at death.
What do you think is the future God has planned for us?
 
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southcountry

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Hebrews 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.



Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.


The sea of glass which now has four cheribum as its foundations will be replaced with one which has 12.

Our original job was to be caretakers and dwell in the garden. Man was not originally on this earth as in our present form. He was once in Eden and God walked with man. We are destined to be caretakers again of a new creation, one in which there will be no evil. Exactly what that will bee is beyond any words or meaning I am able to convey.
 
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Der Alte

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Hundreds of millions of Christians believe they will go to heaven when they die.
They believe their loved who have passed away are hopefully there even now.
Heaven is spoken of as the place of God's throne.
But how strange it is that Christ would say " No man hath ascended up to heaven ".
Did He mean the great men of the bible like Abraham, Noah, Moses, Elijah, and David are not in Heaven now?
I can't find any passage in the Bible that actually says " we will go to heaven when we die " or " When we get to heaven "
There is little about what we will be doing once we get to heaven in scripture if that was the case.
Is heaven really the reward of the righteous or does God have something else in mind for us?
Interestingly, you can find in ancient pagan religion , not the bible, that a soul goes to heaven at death.
What do you think is the future God has planned for us?

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.​

This post reflects a common problem. Various individuals/groups try to use this verse to prove that the Bible contradicts itself.

Sometimes when the Greek text is translated into English the precise meaning in Greek is lost. The Bible tells us that others have gone to heaven; Elijah, 2 Kings 2:1; Enoch, Genesis 5:24, the thief crucified with Jesus, Luke 23:43. So does John 3:13 contradict these other verses?

No it does not! The word translated "ascended," in Jn 3:13, is ἀναβέβηκεν. It is in the perfect active indicative. The active voice means the subject, in this case Jesus, performed the action. Thus Jesus is the only one who ascended into heaven by His own will and power. The others were taken there by divine action.
 
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agman00

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There is little about what we will be doing once we get to heaven in scripture if that was the case.

Well all you have to do is look at your life down here on this Earth to figure out what we will be doing in Heaven. All the fun stuff and good times you've had here either going to movies, going to amusement parks, reading a book, skiing, surfing, etc. that you do here, you're going to do there. The Bible says there is nothing new under the sun. Everything that we have here came from God because life came from God. If you believe that, then you know he has well prepared his home for us to be familiar but 10,000x better.
 
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James Is Back

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Well all you have to do is look at your life down here on this Earth to figure out what we will be doing in Heaven. All the fun stuff and good times you've had here either going to movies, going to amusement parks, reading a book, skiing, surfing, etc. that you do here, you're going to do there. The Bible says there is nothing new under the sun. Everything that we have here came from God because life came from God. If you believe that, then you know he has well prepared his home for us to be familiar but 10,000x better.

Wait a minute you mean we're going to be watching Star Wars Episode 500,000,000,000,000 in Heaven :scratch: :D

Seriously um where did you get your idea that we'd be watching movies,reading books,etc from?
 
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agman00

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Wait a minute you mean we're going to be watching Star Wars Episode 500,000,000,000,000 in Heaven :scratch: :D

Seriously um where did you get your idea that we'd be watching movies,reading books,etc from?

Because we do it here. Why wouldn't we do it there? The Bible says they check the Book of Life to see if you're written before you get there. Why wouldn't there be other books? There are libraries, schools, and universities all across Heaven. We have them because they them. We have movies because Heaven has movies. Everything we have they've always had because everything here comes from God and is a tiny reflection of what is in Heaven. There is nothing new under the sun. It's time we take God out of our box. If you believe he created and encompasses every fabric and shred of life in this universe, then you know he's well prepared to have made Heaven a familiar but incredible place for us.

Funny you mention Star Wars. Not only have people seen Star Wars in Heaven but they actually star in it in the Reality Theaters. The author Kat Kerr, of Revealing Heaven talked about seeing people go through a door at the movie theaters in Heaven and instantly they were in the movie. Star Wars was one of the ones she saw people signing up to star in the film. That might be a handful for you to process or accept but when you realize that everything we have here isn't new or abnormal to God, you realize how big and amazing he really is. :)
 
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ChetSinger

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Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
This post reflects a common problem. Various individuals/groups try to use this verse to prove that the Bible contradicts itself.

Sometimes when the Greek text is translated into English the precise meaning in Greek is lost. The Bible tells us that others have gone to heaven; Elijah, 2 Kings 2:1; Enoch, Genesis 5:24, the thief crucified with Jesus, Luke 23:43. So does John 3:13 contradict these other verses?

No it does not! The word translated "ascended," in Jn 3:13, is ἀναβέβηκεν. It is in the perfect active indicative. The active voice means the subject, in this case Jesus, performed the action. Thus Jesus is the only one who ascended into heaven by His own will and power. The others were taken there by divine action.
:thumbsup:
 
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BigDaddy4

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Because we do it here. Why wouldn't we do it there? The Bible says they check the Book of Life to see if you're written before you get there. Why wouldn't there be other books? There are libraries, schools, and universities all across Heaven. We have them because they them. We have movies because Heaven has movies. Everything we have they've always had because everything here comes from God and is a tiny reflection of what is in Heaven. There is nothing new under the sun. It's time we take God out of our box. If you believe he created and encompasses every fabric and shred of life in this universe, then you know he's well prepared to have made Heaven a familiar but incredible place for us.

Funny you mention Star Wars. Not only have people seen Star Wars in Heaven but they actually star in it in the Reality Theaters. The author Kat Kerr, of Revealing Heaven talked about seeing people go through a door at the movie theaters in Heaven and instantly they were in the movie. Star Wars was one of the ones she saw people signing up to star in the film. That might be a handful for you to process or accept but when you realize that everything we have here isn't new or abnormal to God, you realize how big and amazing he really is. :)

Interesting.

Revelation 21:1-8
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”


Jesus said the old will pass away and everything will be made new. Kinda contradicts your out of context Ecclesiastic quote.

Also, with death, mourining, crying or pain removed and the cowardly, unbelieving, vile, murderers, sexually immoral, magicians, idolaters, and liars not allowed, that kinda limits the movie and book content available wouldn't it? No Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, or Old Yeller movies. Rules out most romantic comedies and Disney movies.

:doh:
 
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Albion

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Hundreds of millions of Christians believe they will go to heaven when they die.
They believe their loved ones who have passed away are hopefully there even now.
Heaven is spoken of as the place of God's throne.
But how strange it is that Christ would say " No man hath ascended up to heaven ".
Did He mean the great men of the bible like Abraham, Noah, Moses, Elijah, and David are not in Heaven now?
Not at the time Jesus spoke those words, no. That is widely agreed to among Christian theologians and churches.

Is heaven really the reward of the righteous or does God have something else in mind for us?
Interestingly, you can find in ancient pagan religion , not the bible, that a soul goes to heaven at death.
What do you think is the future God has planned for us?

I figure that we do not have any idea what wonders await. ;)
 
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jacobs well

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Hebrews 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.





Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.


The sea of glass which now has four cheribum as its foundations will be replaced with one which has 12.

Our original job was to be caretakers and dwell in the garden. Man was not originally on this earth as in our present form. He was once in Eden and God walked with man. We are destined to be caretakers again of a new creation, one in which there will be no evil. Exactly what that will bee is beyond any words or meaning I am able to convey.

Later in Hebrews 11, it is repeated that all the great men and women of faith are still awaiting their future reward- " And all these, having obtained a good. testimony through faith, DID NOT RECEIVE THE PROMISE ... that they should not be made perfect apart from us " - verses 39-40..
So why haven't they yet receive the promise of eternal life?

Earlier in Rev 21:2 we see this great city which is going to be God's throne coming DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN. It is going to be set up here on the new earth-we are looking at God's kingdom being down here and God dwelling with us-verse 3.
 
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I really think this is another slamdunk for Der Alter.

True -- No one had ascended when Jesus spoke the words - not in the sense that the Greek has been explained...

Enoch and Elijah have been covered ...

A parable pictures Father Abraham and the 'righteous OT people' on one side of a gulf -- yet in the same hades as the unrighteous ( rich man that mistreated beggar Lazarus)

"He hath gone up on high - He hath led captivity captive - He hath received gifts for men"

Even the just-resurrected Jesus told one of the women - "Don't hold onto me - I have not yet ascended to the Father".

But He soon did.
 
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jacobs well

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Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.​

This post reflects a common problem. Various individuals/groups try to use this verse to prove that the Bible contradicts itself.

Sometimes when the Greek text is translated into English the precise meaning in Greek is lost. The Bible tells us that others have gone to heaven; Elijah, 2 Kings 2:1; Enoch, Genesis 5:24, the thief crucified with Jesus, Luke 23:43. So does John 3:13 contradict these other verses?

No it does not! The word translated "ascended," in Jn 3:13, is ἀναβέβηκεν. It is in the perfect active indicative. The active voice means the subject, in this case Jesus, performed the action. Thus Jesus is the only one who ascended into heaven by His own will and power. The others were taken there by divine action.

If you look at other translations like the NIV for example it says " No one has EVER gone into heaven " for John 3:16.
God's Word Translation says " No one has gone to heaven "
Peter echoed the same sentiment in Acts 2:34 " For David is not ascended into the heavens "
The apostles never taught that we would go to heaven.
The bible does not say that people like Elijah are in heaven, God's throne.
2 Kings 2:11 Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. remember there are 3 heaven mentioned in the bible. The first one is our sky and clouds, the second one is space, the stars, etc. and the third heaven is God's spiritual realm. You won't be able to see the third one with a telescope.
Elijah was taken up in the air only and taken to a safe place. We learn later, that years later Elijah was alive still - 2 Chronicles 21:12-15.
Elijah and Enoch have not received the promise of eternal life yet. That will happen at the second coming of Jesus Christ.
 
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Der Alte

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If you look at other translations like the NIV for example it says " No one has EVER gone into heaven " for John 3:16.
God's Word Translation says " No one has gone to heaven "
Peter echoed the same sentiment in Acts 2:34 " For David is not ascended into the heavens "

I don't rely on translations I read the original languages. None of this disproves what I said.

The apostles never taught that we would go to heaven.

Not totally correct but irrelevant. This is a logical fallacy, argument from silence. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Paul said that someone, probably himself was caught up to the third heaven. Also Jesus, Himself said that the criminal would be with Him in paradise that day.

But here Paul indicates that at death he will be with the Lord.

Phi 1:23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.​

The bible does not say that people like Elijah are in heaven, God's throne.
2 Kings 2:11 Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. remember there are 3 heaven mentioned in the bible. The first one is our sky and clouds, the second one is space, the stars, etc. and the third heaven is God's spiritual realm. You won't be able to see the third one with a telescope.

So according to you Elijah has been floating around in the atmosphere for a few thousand years?

Elijah was taken up in the air only and taken to a safe place.

Where does scripture say that Elijah was taken to a safe place? That is what some unorthodox religious groups teach but no scriptural support.

We learn later, that years later Elijah was alive still - 2 Chronicles 21:12-15.

What makes you think it was years later?

John Gill Commentary on the whole Bible

2Ch 21:12
- And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet,.... Not what was written by him after his ascension to heaven, and from thence came to Jehoram, even seven years after that, as say some Jewish writers (z); nor was it a writing from another person of the same name in those times, since of such an one we nowhere read; nor from Elisha bearing the name of Elijah, having a double portion of his spirit on him, since he is never so called; but this was a writing of Elijah's before his ascension, who, foreseeing by a spirit of prophecy what Jehoram would be guilty of, wrote this, and gave it to one of the prophets, as Kimchi suggests, and most probably to Elisha, to communicate it to him at a proper time; and who might, as the above writer intimates, think it came immediately from heaven:

Keil and Delitszch Hebrew commentary

2Ch 21:12-17
- Most probably he was still alive also at the commencement of the reign of Joram of Israel, who ascended the throne twenty-three years after Ahab. Jehoshaphat died six or seven years later; and after his death, his successor Joram slew his brothers, the other sons of Jehoshaphat. Elijah may have lived to see the perpetration of this crime, and may consequently also have sent the threatening prophecy which is under discussion to Joram. As he first appeared under Ahab, on the above supposition, he would have filled the office of prophet for about thirty years; while his servant Elisha, whom he chose to be his successor as early as in the reign of Ahab (1Ki_19:16), died only under Joash of Israel (2Ki_13:14.), who became king fifty-seven years after Ahab's death, and must consequently have discharged the prophetic functions for at least sixty years. But even if we suppose that Elijah had been taken away from the earth before Jehoshaphat's death, we may, with Buddaeus, Ramb., and other commentators, accept this explanation: that the Lord had revealed to him Joram's wickedness before his translation, and had commissioned him to announce to Joram in writing the divine punishment which would follow, and to send this writing to him at the proper time.
. . .
But if Elijah committed the anointing of both Hazael and Jehu to his servant Elisha, why may he not also have committed to him the delivery of this threatening prophecy which he had drawn up in writing? Without bringing forward in support of this such hypotheses as that the contents of the letter would have all the greater effect, since it would seem as if the man of God were speaking to him from beyond the grave (O. v. Gerlach), we have yet a perfect right to suppose that a written word from the terrible man whom the Lord had accredited as His prophet by fire from heaven, in his struggle against Baal-worship under Ahab and Ahaziah, would be much better fitted to make an impression upon Joram and his consort Athaliah, who was walking in the footsteps of her mother Jezebel, than a word of Elisha, or any other prophet who was not endowed with the spirit and power of Elijah.​

Elijah and Enoch have not received the promise of eternal life yet. That will happen at the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Making unsupported assertions does not make it true.
 
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AlephBet

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Hundreds of millions of Christians believe they will go to heaven when they die.
They believe their loved ones who have passed away are hopefully there even now.
Heaven is spoken of as the place of God's throne.
But how strange it is that Christ would say " No man hath ascended up to heaven ".
Did He mean the great men of the bible like Abraham, Noah, Moses, Elijah, and David are not in Heaven now?
I can't find any passage in the Bible that actually says " we will go to heaven when we die " or " When we get to heaven "
There is little about what we will be doing once we get to heaven in scripture if that was the case.
Is heaven really the reward of the righteous or does God have something else in mind for us?
Interestingly, you can find in ancient pagan religion , not the bible, that a soul goes to heaven at death.
What do you think is the future God has planned for us?

When Adam was formed by Yahweh, Eve was extracted from Adam. I believe that Eve is humanity, or the bride. I also believe that each of us have a higher mind in Heaven known as our Angel. The Angel of the Lord is one that we know of Yahweh. Adam below is humanity, and Yahweh above is Adam's higher nature to rule (Ego). Satan was made by Yahweh as an accuser (Conscience of Adam). If you read Colossians 1, it clears it up for us.

Colossians 1

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

The entire cosmos is the Son of God. Humans are the template of this design as a microcosm of the macrocosm. Look at the items listed as the Son of God. ALL things, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities like Satan and Yahweh. I believe the rulers are aspects of the Son's mind, just as we have the same aspects in our mind. Ego is the judge, or ruler of the mind to be overcome. The beast is Eve below, or humans being refined. Above, we are entangled to our higher natures (Angel). The Angel will be consummated as a Groom to the Bride. Two become one. Until this happens for all creatures, we are all here below still being refined. We wait for Christ to return.

Eve made her way to Mary in mankind. In Zachariah 3, Satan was silenced by Yahweh. Joshua / Yeshua was clothed and crowned with a new body and mind. This is symbolic of the vessel being prepared for Yahweh to be humbled (Ego of Adam). Who are we at the resurrection?

Matthew 22:30

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Who are we now?

Matthew 18

10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

We are the child of God below (Eve). We are the Angel facing the Father above. No human will go above. Our mind will be rejoined to our real body above, which has always been in perfection with God the Father.

A deeper reason to see this is how we were made. The word Father in Hebrew is Aleph Bet (Letters). Mother is Aleph Mem, or strong waters. She is the cup for the letters of DNA. Adding the DNA to the cup with water, you get bread of life, or the Son. The Son in Hebrew is Bet Nun, or House of Seed.

Father: Aleph Bet

ALEPH.jpg
BET.jpg

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

The Alephbet writes the word. DNA into the mother's womb bakes the bread.

Aleph Mem - Mother

ALEPH.jpg
MEM.jpg


Bet Nun is the Son

BET.jpg
NUN.jpg


This is amazing, but what do I mean? All of creation was made in an artificial image (Genesis 1:27), or hologram. When you put information into a catalyst, then shine a light, you get a hologram.

John 1 Again:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

We are entangled by quantum mechanics into a hologram above and below.

Matthew 18

18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

Baptism is a concept from antiquity called involution, or Spirit (consciousness) into the water. Why? Evolution.

E in Latin means out of. Volution means circling around a center. You are the center and have NEVER moved. You are locked above, entangled into a hologram to build your mind. Once built, you wake up. Like sheep with the wool over their eyes, you are facing the Father. You travel in the mind below, circling like sheep developing wool. That wool is then washed, and given back as a new Robe (Angel) that you develop from the journey.

Now you know. Once you know, you cannot unknow.
 
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southcountry

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Later in Hebrews 11, it is repeated that all the great men and women of faith are still awaiting their future reward- " And all these, having obtained a good. testimony through faith, DID NOT RECEIVE THE PROMISE ... that they should not be made perfect apart from us " - verses 39-40..
So why haven't they yet receive the promise of eternal life?

Earlier in Rev 21:2 we see this great city which is going to be God's throne coming DOWN FROM GOD OUT OF HEAVEN. It is going to be set up here on the new earth-we are looking at God's kingdom being down here and God dwelling with us-verse 3.


They have and they havent received the promise. This is what happens when time is removed from the equation.

From Gods point of view, all that will happen has happened and the past is the future.

Its a hard concept to grasp, but God is the alpha-omega, the book of life was written from before time even started.
 
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jacobs well

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I don't rely on translations I read the original languages. None of this disproves what I said.



Not totally correct but irrelevant. This is a logical fallacy, argument from silence. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Paul said that someone, probably himself was caught up to the third heaven. Also Jesus, Himself said that the criminal would be with Him in paradise that day.

But here Paul indicates that at death he will be with the Lord.

Phi 1:23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.​



So according to you Elijah has been floating around in the atmosphere for a few thousand years?



Where does scripture say that Elijah was taken to a safe place? That is what some unorthodox religious groups teach but no scriptural support.



What makes you think it was years later?

John Gill Commentary on the whole Bible

2Ch 21:12
- And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet,.... Not what was written by him after his ascension to heaven, and from thence came to Jehoram, even seven years after that, as say some Jewish writers (z); nor was it a writing from another person of the same name in those times, since of such an one we nowhere read; nor from Elisha bearing the name of Elijah, having a double portion of his spirit on him, since he is never so called; but this was a writing of Elijah's before his ascension, who, foreseeing by a spirit of prophecy what Jehoram would be guilty of, wrote this, and gave it to one of the prophets, as Kimchi suggests, and most probably to Elisha, to communicate it to him at a proper time; and who might, as the above writer intimates, think it came immediately from heaven:

Keil and Delitszch Hebrew commentary

2Ch 21:12-17
- Most probably he was still alive also at the commencement of the reign of Joram of Israel, who ascended the throne twenty-three years after Ahab. Jehoshaphat died six or seven years later; and after his death, his successor Joram slew his brothers, the other sons of Jehoshaphat. Elijah may have lived to see the perpetration of this crime, and may consequently also have sent the threatening prophecy which is under discussion to Joram. As he first appeared under Ahab, on the above supposition, he would have filled the office of prophet for about thirty years; while his servant Elisha, whom he chose to be his successor as early as in the reign of Ahab (1Ki_19:16), died only under Joash of Israel (2Ki_13:14.), who became king fifty-seven years after Ahab's death, and must consequently have discharged the prophetic functions for at least sixty years. But even if we suppose that Elijah had been taken away from the earth before Jehoshaphat's death, we may, with Buddaeus, Ramb., and other commentators, accept this explanation: that the Lord had revealed to him Joram's wickedness before his translation, and had commissioned him to announce to Joram in writing the divine punishment which would follow, and to send this writing to him at the proper time.
. . .
But if Elijah committed the anointing of both Hazael and Jehu to his servant Elisha, why may he not also have committed to him the delivery of this threatening prophecy which he had drawn up in writing? Without bringing forward in support of this such hypotheses as that the contents of the letter would have all the greater effect, since it would seem as if the man of God were speaking to him from beyond the grave (O. v. Gerlach), we have yet a perfect right to suppose that a written word from the terrible man whom the Lord had accredited as His prophet by fire from heaven, in his struggle against Baal-worship under Ahab and Ahaziah, would be much better fitted to make an impression upon Joram and his consort Athaliah, who was walking in the footsteps of her mother Jezebel, than a word of Elisha, or any other prophet who was not endowed with the spirit and power of Elijah.​



Making unsupported assertions does not make it true.

Even when Jesus tells us twice , even three times, we still don't believe Him.
We prefer to believe men.
In Phil 1:23-24 -Paul is writing about 2 possible outcomes-to depart and be with Christ or stay with his people who need him.
It does not say when or where Paul would be with Christ. There is no mention of heaven in these verses. again we are misinterpreting scripture. the only thing Paul would be departing is from his present, physical life by death.
In 2 Tim 4:6-8 -Paul understood that he was not going to receive his reward immediately at death. But rather on "that day " of Christ's second coming along with all the other saints in Christ.

further, in 2 Kings 2:16 we see the sons of the prophets knew Elijah was not in Heaven and spent time looking for him to make sure he was safe-verse 17
the letter to Jehoram sent by Elijah several years after his disappearance refers to current sinful transgressions that had just recently occurred by the hands of Jehoram.
Elijah died like everyone else in the bible afterwards, but no specific date is mentioned.
Don't believe commentaries that have an agenda of discrediting scripture to maintain their understandings.
Again Gene 5:24 - Enoch was taken by God- but it nowhere mentions taken up to heaven.- taken can mean transferred so he would not see death-be killed.
The thief on the cross story is used often to discredit the truth of scripture.
WHEN CHRIST died on that day did the thief join Him in heaven on that day Christ died? No.
John:20:17 tells us 3 days after Christ's resurrection He had not ascended to heaven yet.
With Jesus statement and based on the lack of punctuation in the Greek language the english translators had put the comma after you rather than after today. The common way back then was " I say to you today, "
so Jesus was only saying " Today I'm telling you, you will be with me in Paradise"

John 5:28-29 - the time is coming (the 2nd coming) that ALL in the grave in Christ will be resurrected to (eternal) life........(even the thief on the cross, Moses, David, etc)

If anyone has gone to heaven why is Jesus saying all (from the beginning of time ) will be then given immortality-eternal life

Believe Jesus when He says nobody has gone up to heaven.
 
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jacobs well

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We have read that Jesus said that no man can go up to heaven.
He reiterates this again in John 8:22 -" Whither(where) I go, ye cannot come".
Again Jesus tells the little ones in John 13:33-where He is going you cannot come.
In John 14:2-3 , Jesus said I go (to heaven) and I will come again (back to earth) and when He comes back to earth He said " I will receive you unto myself, that where I am (here on earth) there you may be also.
There is no scripture in all the bible that promises heaven as the reward the saved shall inherit.

That's a slam dunk for Jesus.
 
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