No freedom of speech in England.

TerranceL

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No thats stifling free speach. Freedom of speach says you won't be prevented from saying things. It never EVER means, your free to say what you want and people arn't allowed to stop giving you a platform. A university, a job, a tv station, a convention and any other place has the right to say, your allowed to say what you want, we just won't give you the podium to say it from here. There is such thing as image, and you want a pro Christian, or a progay, or a pro X image, allowing someone to say things against that ruins said image.

The problem is we are seeing people being punished for what they do outside of work the objective is clearly to silence people via fear.


There is this bizzare idea that only recently started that freedom of speach means you MUST give me a platform anywhere I want.

What an odd way to put, "were going to contact your boss and get you fired if you say something we don't like on your facebook".
 
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MrSpikey

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When Canadian preacher Todd Bentley was banned, the U.K. Government's Home Office stated with righteous indignation: "Coming here is a privilege that we refuse to extend to those who might seek to undermine our society."

The US customs and border protection site states:

Please be aware, entering the United States is a privilege, not a right

That privilege is regularly not extended to those who have criminal convictions and who are suspected (but not proven) of having ties to criminal or terrorist groups. It also applies to "Visitors who have been arrested (even if the arrest did not result in a criminal conviction)". You'll also get checked on the way in to make sure you have sufficient money to enjoy your visit to the US - who decides what level that is isn't specified.

The situations seem quite similar to me.
 
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loveofourlord

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The problem is we are seeing people being punished for what they do outside of work the objective is clearly to silence people via fear.




What an odd way to put, "were going to contact your boss and get you fired if you say something we don't like on your facebook".

Thing is it can be directly related, if your job is to help gays/muslims or what ever your views on them very much can effect how you handle things.
 
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mindlight

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Since the thread title is about freedom in England generally, we should remember that people get banned from entry into the U.K. based solely on their speech and nothing else - Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, Michael Savage, Terry Jones, Julien Blanc to name a few. Completely banned from even a visit.

When Canadian preacher Todd Bentley was banned, the U.K. Government's Home Office stated with righteous indignation: "Coming here is a privilege that we refuse to extend to those who might seek to undermine our society." You might want to let that soak in, and keep it in mind the time you're watching one of the flood of videos of angry Muslims with their signs saying "Death To U.K.!" "Sharia For the U.K." and "Britain Is Ours Now!"

Some of these guys are real good examples of Gods forgiveness and transformative power. But because they have criminal records from their previous lives the authorities have the excuses to exclude. Some of these guys are excluded cause of the way they talk about Radical Islam or gay practice. But you are right these are all examples of restrictions on freedom of speech.
 
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Gadarene

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Thing is it can be directly related, if your job is to help gays/muslims or what ever your views on them very much can effect how you handle things.
And if he is actually treating gay people as subhuman in practice, then discipline based on that. Simply quoting a Bible verse is not the same thing.
 
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TerranceL

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Thing is it can be directly related, if your job is to help gays/muslims or what ever your views on them very much can effect how you handle things.

Then show how it directly effected how he handled things.
 
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Gadarene

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If you have a better suggesting to change society-wide mainstream attitudes, be my guest.

Actually talking about this stuff rather than insulting people into submission and destroying their livelihood, thus virtually guaranteeing their views will just reemerge later in a more virulent form?

It's not like we haven't seen this happen before or anything like that :doh:
 
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Gadarene

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In theory, I agree with you.

However, in practical terms, I'm sure that legal protections of civil rights are necessary. Societies are made of people, and people are imperfect. If we all had A. the time, B. the intelligence, C. the objectivity, to fully discuss the complexities and nuances of every issue, that would be great. But we don't.

That's what due process is for, rather than expelling people just because someone out to get offended reported a single statement you made.
 
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Armoured

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Actually talking about this stuff rather than insulting people into submission and destroying their livelihood, thus virtually guaranteeing their views will just reemerge later in a more virulent form?

It's not like we haven't seen this happen before or anything like that :doh:
If we limited ourselves to "just talking about stuff", I can't think of a social advance that would have ever happened.
 
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Chesterton

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The US customs and border protection site states:



That privilege is regularly not extended to those who have criminal convictions and who are suspected (but not proven) of having ties to criminal or terrorist groups. It also applies to "Visitors who have been arrested (even if the arrest did not result in a criminal conviction)". You'll also get checked on the way in to make sure you have sufficient money to enjoy your visit to the US - who decides what level that is isn't specified.

The situations seem quite similar to me.

I don't believe any of the people I mentioned have ties to terrorist groups, I could be wrong, I'm not going to check because it's irrelevant. I know people myself with criminal convictions who've visited England.
 
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Gadarene

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Well, refusing to countenance the opposing views of slave owners springs to mind.

Discussing their views doesn't mean you condone them. It's an opportunity to publicly refute them.

And if you can't refute them, then maybe your own opinions aren't as well-founded as you might like to admit.
 
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joshua 1 9

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joshua 1 9

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Well, as he put it: Biblical slavery is more like indentured servitude.
That was the problem down south. The Bible had two differnet kinds of indentured servants. If the servant was your fellow country man or women then you had to release them after 7 years. IF they became your servant from another country then you had to release them after 49 years. So slavery could not pass from generation to generation.
 
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Trogdor the Burninator

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Well, refusing to countenance the opposing views of slave owners springs to mind.

But we only think that's a good thing because we don't agree with them.

Societies and governments have at various times refused to countenance opposition to their policies, union membership, freedom of association to various groups, voting rights for various groups, the list goes on
 
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Armoured

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But we only think that's a good thing because we don't agree with them.

Societies and governments have at various times refused to countenance opposition to their policies, union membership, freedom of association to various groups, voting rights for various groups, the list goes on
Like I said, it would be great if we could discuss every opinion and POV and its nuances, but there comes a point where, for pure practical reasons, lines must be drawn.
 
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