No, Boy Scouts Of America: “Tolerance” Isn’t Good Enough

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keith99

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I don't understand the one comment in the article where someone said the reason the BSA need gay Scout leaders is because they're the only ones who can sufficiently understand and help gay Scouts. I'm pretty sure most of those kids have understanding, loving parents who are not gay, so why the need for gay leaders?

The mission of the Scouts is not to be a support group for either gays or homophobes. A gay ties a square know just like a straight does.

I think long term the scout's policy on leaders may change. But the driving force will be from the other direction. It will not be that anyone thinks gay scouts need gay scout leaders, it will be because gay scouts turn 18 and are seen a valuable resource being lost. (And good leaders are a very valuable resource).
 
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MagicSabbath

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The Supreme Court said in 2000 that the Boy Scouts have the right to discriminate in their membership policy because they can be classified as a private organization. That was the last time anyone tried to make them change by force of law, so you're wrong. This change happened because people within the Boy Scouts voted to change it.
You should do the research on the harassment gay hate groups put forth against the Scouts so as to force this vote to come to pass.

No group is entitled to tolerance beyond their legal rights.
Clearly gay's and hate groups like GLAAD don't agree when they demonstrate no tolerance for religious based organizations that do not pander to the gay agenda.

Or are you unaware of the fall out that occurred when it was found that the family of Chick-Fil-A support Christian family traditional values organizations?

Radical gay's are so intolerant of the religious in fact that certain among them had published the gay bible.The 'queen James' bible, so as to reword scripture and thereby make a mockery of Christian scripture, God, and the religious community itself.


By "gays," do you mean the entire LGBT+ community?
Gay's, by definition, is pretty clear to most people.

I'm surprised that you hold those views when you also hold this opinion:
OK.
 
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Cearbhall

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Gay's, by definition, is pretty clear to most people.

You would think. That's why I'm confused that you're using this (derogatory) term when we're talking about an issue that affects the entire LGBT+ community, not just gay individuals (those who aren't allowed in as Scouts because they weren't born male are potential leaders).

To be fair, some people within the LGBT community call it the "gay community," but you said "gays," hence my desire for clarification.
 
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MagicSabbath

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You would think. That's why I'm confused that you're using this (derogatory) term when we're talking about an issue that affects the entire LGBT+ community, not just gay individuals (those who aren't allowed in as Scouts because they weren't born male are potential leaders).

To be fair, some people within the LGBT community call it the "gay community," but you said "gays," hence my desire for clarification.

And so too do some people in the gay community object to the term, homosexual.
In the context of this discussion, Boy Scouts of America, the policy under discussion or up for debate is openly gay boys. Not the entire LGBT community.
 
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MagicSabbath

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Because they are discussing whether or not the steps the BSA has taken are enough to start supporting them again.
Actually the issue in the OP linked article, is that a certain human rights group, amid others for whom they claim to speak, do not think the BSA has done enough in just voting to allow openly gay minor boys into the organization. And as such, it is not something to be tolerated until the BSA permit openly gay scout leaders as well.
 
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keith99

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Actually the issue in the OP linked article, is that a certain human rights group, amid others for whom they claim to speak, do not think the BSA has done enough in just voting to allow openly gay minor boys into the organization. And as such, it is not something to be tolerated until the BSA permit openly gay scout leaders as well.

The link in the OP is to an opinion piece, that means it is the opinion of one person, the person who wrote the piece. It makes no reference to any group besides the scouts.

Your description is disingenuous to the degree that it fails to be 'morally straight'.
 
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MagicSabbath

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The link in the OP is to an opinion piece, that means it is the opinion of one person, the person who wrote the piece. It makes no reference to any group besides the scouts.

Your description is disingenuous to the degree that it fails to be 'morally straight'.
Not at all. That's an LGBT website and the article written by a staff member and represents the point of view that allowing openly gay boys is not enough.

...What makes the BSA’s statement so galling is how it deftly attempts to sidestep the blatant hatred and disdain of gay people packed in between the lines. Instead of sending a clear message that all boys, gay, straight and in-between, should be embraced as well as introduced to the kinds of role models BSA is in the business of fashioning, the organization’s National Council has chosen instead to further the idea that gay adults are pariahs and pedophiles.

Thereby arguing that openly gay boys now being permitted into the Scouts is not enough. As the title of the article states. Tolerance is not enough.

What is being argued is that the Scouts should agree to be immorally crooked and allow transsexuals in as well. So in other words, a girl that would normally seek to be in the Girl Scouts should be allowed into the Boy Scouts because she feels male!

Give an inch they'll demand a mile. Morally straight? If that were a reality garnered respect, hate groups and heterophobes wouldn't have set out on a campaign to violate the religious platform of BSA!


THE SCOUTING FOR ALL ALLIANCE FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, “THE ALLIANCE”
 
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Cearbhall

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And so too do some people in the gay community object to the term, homosexual.
In the context of this discussion, Boy Scouts of America, the policy under discussion or up for debate is openly gay boys. Not the entire LGBT community.
No. The article in the original post of this thread, which is your thread, is about the desire for the membership policy to change for leaders. There is no sex or gender requirement to be a leader in the Boy Scouts. Therefore, the entire LGBT+ community would be eligible if the policy changed.

Even if we were only talking about boys, the discussion would include bisexual boys, boys who have some degree of attraction to members of the same sex but don't identify as either of those things, allies who are worried that people will label them as gay and take the word of other people over their word, and boys who are interested in dating an intersex or trans person, same legal sex or not, but aren't sure how the Boy Scouts will interpret that.
Who on this forum has even donated any money to the boy scouts?
Haven't most people? Maybe it's not so popular in certain areas. Pretty much every male classmate of mine was at least a Cub Scout, so they all paid fees and their families bought whatever it is that they sell (popcorn, if I remember correctly). Families who only had daughters bought from other Boy Scouts.
 
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Cearbhall

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Ya but who exactly do you know that donated to them?

The whole point of buying things from them is to give them money. Otherwise, people would just go to the store and get popcorn for a cheaper price. Same with Girl Scout cookies. Paying fees does the same thing.
 
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I Eat Pie

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Well why are people here arguing about the right of the Scouts to make their own rules or not if no one here donates money to them?

You wouldn't like some leader of some other country to come here and tell us what we can and can't do. Even if they buy our products anyways.

Edit: And P.S. The US donates billions a year to other countries. Do we suddenly have the right to tell Egypt and Israel and Pakistan what to do and what not to do? What is this nonsense?
 
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RDKirk

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The whole point of buying things from them is to give them money. Otherwise, people would just go to the store and get popcorn for a cheaper price. Same with Girl Scout cookies. Paying fees does the same thing.

No, that's not a donation--no more than buying anything else from a door--to-door retailer would be a "donation" to his company. The difference in price is made up by the convience of at-home purchase and delivery...the labor of the delivery is actually "donated" by the kids, which is where the organization's cut is made.

A donation would be money given such as through the United Way.
 
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MagicSabbath

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No. The article in the original post of this thread, which is your thread, is about the desire for the membership policy to change for leaders. There is no sex or gender requirement to be a leader in the Boy Scouts. Therefore, the entire LGBT+ community would be eligible if the policy changed.
I'm quite aware it's my article thank you. It's also not news that letting gay leaders serve is an issue in that piece. Which has been discussed already.

And no, it does not mean the entire LGBT+ (What is the plus standing for?) would be eligible if the policy changed. It's not a matter of if, if you would have read the article. The policy was voted to change so as to allow openly gay boys to join the Scouts.
You're arguing now that the tolerance policy for minor boys is not enough.

Even if we were only talking about boys, the discussion would include bisexual boys, boys who have some degree of attraction to members of the same sex but don't identify as either of those things, allies who are worried that people will label them as gay and take the word of other people over their word, and boys who are interested in dating an intersex or trans person, same legal sex or not, but aren't sure how the Boy Scouts will interpret that.
We are only talking about openly gay boys.

What sponsors the intolerance for the Boy Scouts and religious moral values are arguments like yours.

Boy Scouts of America should engage in a social experiment. Print applications for entry into the Boy Scouts and right after the name and address of the applicant ask that applicant to state their gender, their biological gender, their sexual preference for lovers, and ask if they cross-dress.

Right about the time the ink is just beginning to dry bet donuts a hate group like GLAAD would be all over it! Outrage! "PHOBES!" accusations, Law suits. The ACLU would be interviewed and asked to opine about the new application!

HOW DARE THEY!

Would be the outcry from the gay activists groups.

Meanwhile, folks like you argue now that openly gay boys being permitted in isn't enough. Tolerance for that isn't enough!

Can't wait for the boycotts, the petitions, the outrage as gay activists seek to prove they have no tolerance for religion, in the event someone decides to pursue an agenda against the Scouts the likes of what you describe. And all the while screaming battle cry demanding tolerance!

Or else!
The irony there is a mile wide and a foot thick!
 
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MagicSabbath

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LGBT Groups Have Mixed Feelings on Boy Scouts’ Ruling

by Jason St. Amand
Web Producer / Staff Writer
Friday May 24, 2013

"The Boy Scouts of America can do better," said Zach Wahls, an Eagle Scout and Executive Director of Scouts for Equality. "We welcome the news that the ban on gay Scouts is history, but our work isn’t over until we honor the Scout Law by making this American institution open and affirming to all." Wahls also took to his personal Twitter account and wrote, "VICTORY (Partly.)"

The Human Rights Campaign said it was a "historic day for the Boy Scouts" but added, "the new policy doesn’t go far enough. Parents and adults of good moral character, regardless of sexual orientation, should be able to volunteer their time to mentor the next generation of Americans."
 
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Cearbhall

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Well why are people here arguing about the right of the Scouts to make their own rules or not if no one here donates money to them?

You wouldn't like some leader of some other country to come here and tell us what we can and can't do. Even if they buy our products anyways.

Edit: And P.S. The US donates billions a year to other countries. Do we suddenly have the right to tell Egypt and Israel and Pakistan what to do and what not to do? What is this nonsense?

Has anyone in this thread suggested that the 2000 Supreme Court case be overturned or disregarded? This is about what we think the Boy Scouts should do, not what we want to make them do. This thread is new, but in other threads I have repeatedly defended the right of private organizations to determine their own membership policies and said that I agree with the Supreme Court's ruling.

I also want every person to vote in favor of same-sex marriage. That doesn't mean I want to pass a law that says they have to vote yes. :doh:
 
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I Eat Pie

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I also want every person to be Christian. That doesn't mean I want to pass a law that says everyone should be.

That makes no sense.

It doesn't matter what you think they should do. You don't own them. If you have a problem, then start a boycott, but it'll most likely fail. If they don't want homosexuals, it's their choice.
 
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