New Perspective on Paul: Heretical or Scriptural?

[NCTPremill]

As some of you might know there is a debate, especially within Reformed/Calvinistic circles, regarding this new interpretation of Paul's letters (esp. on the law, Judaism, and justification by faith alone) promoted by the likes of E. P. Sanders, James D. G. Dunn, and N. T. Wright. This new understanding is called the New Perspective on Paul (NPP) in both scholarly and popular discussions. Some Reformed types embrace this new framework, while most outrightly reject it and label it as heresy.

I was wondering what other believers here believe about this issue. As a Reformed Baptist Christian I believe the NPP is totally out of step with Reformational Christianity and the three out of the five solas of the Reformation.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Some people don't like Paul because, like St. Augustine, he tells inconvenient truths.
It makes you rethink the amount of conviction some Christians have, really, as the other apostles are a lot more liberal. Paul accounts for half the New Testament. Much of what we are edified with is through him.

 

[Wordkeeper]

As some of you might know there is a debate, especially within Reformed/Calvinistic circles, regarding this new interpretation of Paul's letters (esp. on the law, Judaism, and justification by faith alone) promoted by the likes of E. P. Sanders, James D. G. Dunn, and N. T. Wright. This new understanding is called the New Perspective on Paul (NPP) in both scholarly and popular discussions. Some Reformed types embrace this new framework, while most outrightly reject it and label it as heresy.

I was wondering what other believers here believe about this issue. As a Reformed Baptist Christian I believe the NPP is totally out of step with Reformational Christianity and the three out of the five solas of the Reformation.

Bishop Paul Helm sums it up pretty well accusing the NPP of regressing back to Papist works righteousness, basically denying sola fide.

http://paulhelmsdeep.blogspot.in/2007/07/analysis-4-bishop-nt-wrights-ordo_02.html

Quote
With the help of the distinctions between temporal and logical order, and events and states, we are able to see that Wright's view of the ordo salutis follows a recurring pattern in Protestantism: the rejection of the imputation of Christ's righteousness, and justification on the basis of some change or achievement in the person concerned. That justification is temporally after the beginning of these changes is vital to this view of the ordo. Different versions of this pattern can be found in Arminianism, and other movements affected by Arminianism, such as Baxterian neonomianism and Cambridge Platonism. The pattern is: justification is grounded (partly at least) in subjective states. In Wright's case, in faith and covenant membership, unmerited gifts of God, (257) and all that they imply. Justification/vindication is temporally subsequent to being in the covenant, it is an assurance of it. (261) If, as Bishop Wright says, his account of justification 'does the job' of the Reformers' imputation of an alien righteousness, (260-1) then it does that job very differently.

If Bishop Wright has a controversy with the Protestant tradition, as he says that he has, then there is little that is new about his own proposal, even though it may be founded upon a novel account of what St. Paul really said. It’s the old, old story; a moralistic declension from true evangelicalism.

Here are the options, study them for yourself and decide which is right:


Salvation by works

Salvation by faith alone

Salvation by obedience to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

In this I'm defining the last as making sure that Christ ( an umbrella term, synechdoche, metonyme, for the reason Christ was sent) is of benefit to you, the reason Christ was sent should be studied and should be made profitable to you. Hint: the OT saints were blessed, the Cross makes the NT saints even more blessed, even more than John, the greatest born of woman.

He gave gifts to men, don't waste them, all because 2000 years separate you from the views held by the NT Church. They were willing to undergo hardships, even martyrdom for those blessings. Don't miss out because you have invested in a false premise, don't throw more bad money after bad money.

Explore what it means to walk in the light as He is in the light.

 

[rnmomof7]

Rome and salvation by works has always drawn those that want a part in their own salvation ... so the NPP is just following the pattern our flesh likes

 

[Wordkeeper]

Rome and salvation by works has always drawn those that want a part in their own salvation ... so the NPP is just following the pattern our flesh likes

Everything hinges on the translation of the word “believe”.What did the writers of Scripture mean when they used that word. Obviously the best way to find out what they meant is to see how the word is used in different texts, both religious and secular, OF THAT TIME.

Suppose you were curious why your grandfather supported a particular charity and dug out his diaries. If he wrote that he supported a particular charity because it was founded by a good friend of his with whom he had a gay time whilst in college in the 1920s, you would find that in the gay 20s, gay meant happy, and your grandfather had a happy, pleasant, and wonderful time of friendship with that person. Obviously you would depend on the meaning you took from the usage of that time and not one from a text usage of the present time, where you would get a completely wrong idea.

Similarly, texts, both religious and secular of the time used the word “belief” to mean loyalty.Put this in your search engine and read the article:

He asked the rebels to join his army by saying, “repent and be faithful" to me

https://www.google.co.in/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=He+asked+the+rebels+to+join+his+army+by+saying,+“repent+and+be+faithful"+to+me+

So the requirement for salvation would be loyalty to Jesus, not dependence on Jesus to save them from condemnation.What about the texts that say salvation is not of works but of faith.

Well, it meant loyalty too, and it is not of works, else it would not be free, but earned, a wage and not a gift.However the faith, loyalty we are talking about does not CONTRIBUTE to salvation. The only labour that paid for our salvation is the work of Christ on the Cross.If I received food for working 1 hour in a restaurant, it means that my work paid for my meal. But if my action did not generate any contribution to the meal in terms of labour, or ingredients or cash, then my action can be considered not of works. What type of action can we find that does not contribute materially to the final result? Loyalty. Ten visits to a restaurant gets me a gift coupon for a free meals . It's even called a loyalty bonus, gift.

In Scripture it is confession. Con fess, con fessir, declare together, be of one mind (repent, meta noia!) with a person, with God. Agree with God.

Paul told the Athenians that their loyalty was to their Creator and not to wood and stone, so they needed to find out how their Father wanted them to live.When we confessed that serving mammon for earthly benefits was wrong disloyal (at baptism...I hope your church has a Scritural confession for baptism!), since God was our Father and serving God for eternal treasures was the only shrewd thing to do, since earthly treasures rust and perish and eternal treasures do not, then we have made a confession, that our former thinking was wrong, was sin, and we heard with faith, obedience to the command to repent, we confessed that God was our Father, not mammon, we were justified, found righteous, holy and accepted into God’s family as a member, confirmed by receiving the Holy Spirit:

Galatians 3:2This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

And by having our spirit seated with Christ in high places:

Ephesians 2:But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.Our spirits are safe, now we must make our bodies safe too, so that they can be made fit for resurrection.

Paul says we must ensure that we will not be found as a spirit without a body, naked:

2 Corinthians 5:1For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, 3inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. 4For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. 5Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

That decision wIll be based on the works we do whilst in this life:

2 Corinthians 5:10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Now we must continue to be faithful to Christ, NOT try to use works to be sanctified, so that we can do those works that were prepared for us, by again confessing:

Galatians 3:Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Sanctification

Since good fruit only comes from good trees, we must make the tree good, by exposing them to the light of God’s holiness, not the standards of society. The sins we may not even admit as sins, (why would we keep doing them”?) are exposed for what they are. Only by our admission can God begin to cleanse them. If you don't throw your laundry into the laundry basket, how can it get scheduled for the wash day?

1 John 1:6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Parallel verse:

1 John 1:9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Butch5]

As some of you might know there is a debate, especially within Reformed/Calvinistic circles, regarding this new interpretation of Paul's letters (esp. on the law, Judaism, and justification by faith alone) promoted by the likes of E. P. Sanders, James D. G. Dunn, and N. T. Wright. This new understanding is called the New Perspective on Paul (NPP) in both scholarly and popular discussions. Some Reformed types embrace this new framework, while most outrightly reject it and label it as heresy.

I was wondering what other believers here believe about this issue. As a Reformed Baptist Christian I believe the NPP is totally out of step with Reformational Christianity and the three out of the five solas of the Reformation.

New perspective? I wonder why people think the current one is correct? After all it does create contradictions in Paul's own words. It seems any understand that creates contradictions is wrong.

 

[rnmomof7]

Everything hinges on the translation of the word “believe”.What did the writers of Scripture mean when they used that word. Obviously the best way to find out what they meant is to see how the word is used in different texts, both religious and secular, OF THAT TIME.

pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

Thessalonians 1:10 (cf. Winers Grammar, § 39,1 a.; Buttmann, 175 (152)); τῇγραφή, John 2:22. ἐντῷεὐαγγελίῳ, to put faith in the gospel, Mark 1:15 (Buttmann, 174 (151f); cf. Winers Grammar, 213 (200f)) (Ignatius ad Philad. 8, 2 [ET] ((but see Zahn's note); cf. John 3:15 in γ. below)). γ. used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i. e. "a conviction, full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah — the divinely appointed author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ": πιστεύω

Suppose you were curious why your grandfather supported a particular charity and dug out his diaries. If he wrote that he supported a particular charity because it was founded by a good friend of his with whom he had a gay time whilst in college in the 1920s, you would find that in the gay 20s, gay meant happy, and your grandfather had a happy, pleasant, and wonderful time of friendship with that person. Obviously you would depend on the meaning you took from the usage of that time and not one from a text usage of the present time, where you would get a completely wrong idea.

Similarly, texts, both religious and secular of the time used the word “belief” to mean loyalty.Put this in your search engine and read the article:

He asked the rebels to join his army by saying, “repent and be faithful" to me

https://www.google.co.in/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=He+asked+the+rebels+to+join+his+army+by+saying,+“repent+and+be+faithful"+to+me+

So the requirement for salvation would be loyalty to Jesus, not dependence on Jesus to save them from condemnation.What about the texts that say salvation is not of works but of faith.



Well, it meant loyalty too, and it is not of works, else it would not be free, but earned, a wage and not a gift.However the faith, loyalty we are talking about does not CONTRIBUTE to salvation. The only labour that paid for our salvation is the work of Christ on the Cross.If I received food for working 1 hour in a restaurant, it means that my work paid for my meal. But if my action did not generate any contribution to the meal in terms of labour, or ingredients or cash, then my action can be considered not of works. What type of action can we find that does not contribute materially to the final result? Loyalty. Ten visits to a restaurant gets me a gift coupon for a free meals . It's even called a loyalty bonus, gift.

In Scripture it is confession. Con fess, con fessir, declare together, be of one mind (repent, meta noia!) with a person, with God. Agree with God.

Paul told the Athenians that their loyalty was to their Creator and not to wood and stone, so they needed to find out how their Father wanted them to live.When we confessed that serving mammon for earthly benefits was wrong disloyal (at baptism...I hope your church has a Scritural confession for baptism!), since God was our Father and serving God for eternal treasures was the only shrewd thing to do, since earthly treasures rust and perish and eternal treasures do not, then we have made a confession, that our former thinking was wrong, was sin, and we heard with faith, obedience to the command to repent, we confessed that God was our Father, not mammon, we were justified, found righteous, holy and accepted into God’s family as a member, confirmed by receiving the Holy Spirit:

Galatians 3:2This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

And by having our spirit seated with Christ in high places:

Ephesians 2:But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.Our spirits are safe, now we must make our bodies safe too, so that they can be made fit for resurrection.

Paul says we must ensure that we will not be found as a spirit without a body, naked:

2 Corinthians 5:1For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, 3inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. 4For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed, so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life. 5Now He who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

That decision wIll be based on the works we do whilst in this life:

2 Corinthians 5:10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Now we must continue to be faithful to Christ, NOT try to use works to be sanctified, so that we can do those works that were prepared for us, by again confessing:

Galatians 3:Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Sanctification

Since good fruit only comes from good trees, we must make the tree good, by exposing them to the light of God’s holiness, not the standards of society. The sins we may not even admit as sins, (why would we keep doing them”?) are exposed for what they are. Only by our admission can God begin to cleanse them. If you don't throw your laundry into the laundry basket, how can it get scheduled for the wash day?

1 John 1:6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Parallel verse:

1 John 1:9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Pure exegesis

 

[Wordkeeper]

pisteuó: to believe, entrust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

Thessalonians 1:10 (cf. Winers Grammar, § 39,1 a.; Buttmann, 175 (152)); τῇγραφή, John 2:22. ἐντῷεὐαγγελίῳ, to put faith in the gospel, Mark 1:15 (Buttmann, 174 (151f); cf. Winers Grammar, 213 (200f)) (Ignatius ad Philad. 8, 2 [ET] ((but see Zahn's note); cf. John 3:15 in γ. below)). γ. used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i. e. "a conviction, full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah — the divinely appointed author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ": πιστεύω


Pure exegesis

Thanks, unless you meant eisegesis.


You mean gay meant homosexual in 1920?

 

[rnmomof7]

You mean gay meant homosexual in 1920?

Irrelevent ...it means what it meant at the time of the writing ...

 

[Wordkeeper]

Irrelevent ...it means what it meant at the time of the writing ...

Did the link I provided have any weak points in its effort to show that pistis meant loyalty during the first century, Josephus, amongst others, using it to demand loyalty?

Bear in mind that my friend is a lexicographer.