New Orleans police officer shot dead in his police cruiser

[NightHawkeye]

New Orleans cop shot dead in cruiser | ABC News

The officer's name has not been released, but the New Orleans police identified the victim as a 45-year-old man who worked as a Housing Authority police officer.​

 

[bill5]

What a surprise, not on any of the so-called news sites. People in those hot spots of high IQ like Baltimore and Ferguson are probably jumping for joy.

 

[seashale76]

The flood gates of crazy have been opened.

 

[iluvatar5150]

What a surprise, not on any of the so-called news sites. People in those hot spots of high IQ like Baltimore and Ferguson are probably jumping for joy.

"So-called news sites"? The OP's link came from ABC News, and others have reported it, too:
http://bfy.tw/4r4

But please do go on about everybody else's IQ.

 

[bill5]

I meant the main page of those sites vs buried somewhere that few will find it. In other words, a police officer's murder is considered far less of a story, far less interesting, far less newsworthy (and far less riot worthy) than a thug who was stupid enough to attack a police officer and paid the price. Hopefully I don't have to spell this out even further for you.

As for the general IQ of towns like Baltimore and Ferguson, I needn't go on, as they've already spoken volumes for themselves.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I meant the main page of those sites vs buried somewhere that few will find it. In other words, a police officer's murder is considered far less of a story, far less interesting, far less newsworthy (and far less riot worthy) than a thug who was stupid enough to attack a police officer and paid the price.

Freddie Grey didn't attack a cop. Whether or not Michael Brown attacked the cop was never proven one way or another.

Hopefully I don't have to spell this out even further for you.

You don't have to spell out anything to me, but it seems that a few things need to be spelled out to you. The riots in Ferguson and Baltimore weren't just about Michael Brown and Freddie Gray; they were about decades of abuse suffered by the black communities in those towns at the hands of police and other municipal agencies. For someone so bent on disparaging the IQ's of others, you seem to be sorely lacking in even the most rudimentary understanding of the issues you wish to discuss.

As for the general IQ of towns like Baltimore and Ferguson, I needn't go on, as they've already spoken volumes for themselves.

As have you.

 

[NightHawkeye]

You don't have to spell out anything to me, but it seems that a few things need to be spelled out to you. The riots in Ferguson and Baltimore weren't just about Michael Brown and Freddie Gray; they were about decades of abuse suffered by the black communities in those towns at the hands of police and other municipal agencies. For someone so bent on disparaging the IQ's of others, you seem to be sorely lacking in even the most rudimentary understanding of the issues you wish to discuss.

It seems that some are all too willing to blame others for their misery and suffering ... yet unwilling to look within and take the responsible actions which would alleviate such misery and suffering.

 

[dgiharris]

It seems that some are all too willing to blame others for their misery and suffering ... yet unwilling to look within and take the responsible actions which would alleviate such misery and suffering.

This is a simplistic view of a problem that allows you to chest thump and sit tall on your high horse...

Truth is, the problem is more complex than that. The problem is systemic and socio-economic. It's hard to lift yourself up by your bootstraps when there are no jobs or anyone hiring in your neighborhood or you have a record due to some overzealous cop overstepping his authority..

Yes, there are issues and problems and fault on all sides. But we also need to acknowledge the reality of impoverished neighborhoods and schools. It's just not as simple as "pick yourself up by your bootstraps"

As for the officer being shot. No human being that i know of rejoices at the death of any innocent person.

 

[NightHawkeye]

This is a simplistic view of a problem that allows you to chest thump and sit tall on your high horse...

I wasn't chest thumping. I was stating the obvious.

Truth is, the problem is more complex than that. The problem is systemic and socio-economic.

No. The problem is very simple. The problem is thugs and drugs are idolized within the community.

Solving that problem must come from within the community. There are plenty of people willing to help but they can't do much until those within the community want to solve their problem.

It's hard to lift yourself up by your bootstraps when there are no jobs or anyone hiring in your neighborhood or you have a record due to some overzealous cop overstepping his authority..

I know.

Yes, there are issues and problems and fault on all sides. But we also need to acknowledge the reality of impoverished neighborhoods and schools.

We need to acknowledge the reality that improving impoverished neighborhoods and schools requires motivation and action within each community. Such motivation and action can rarely be imposed from outside ... at least no one has figured out how to do so effectively in more than fifty years of throwing huge resources and money at the problem.

It's just not as simple as "pick yourself up by your bootstraps"

True.

It's not much more complex though than rewarding those who achieve and punishing those who create mischief.

As for the officer being shot. No human being that i know of rejoices at the death of any innocent person.

Yet, there is a sub-culture which hates "outsiders".

 

[AirPo]

This is a simplistic view of a problem that allows you to chest thump and sit tall on your high horse...

Truth is, the problem is more complex than that. The problem is systemic and socio-economic. It's hard to lift yourself up by your bootstraps when there are no jobs or anyone hiring in your neighborhood or you have a record due to some overzealous cop overstepping his authority..

Yes, there are issues and problems and fault on all sides. But we also need to acknowledge the reality of impoverished neighborhoods and schools. It's just not as simple as "pick yourself up by your bootstraps"

As for the officer being shot. No human being that i know of rejoices at the death of any innocent person.

One would need boots in the first place in order to have bootstraps to lift at all.

 

[dgiharris]

I wasn't chest thumping. I was stating the obvious.

No. The problem is very simple. The problem is thugs and drugs are idolized within the community..

Yes and no. Thugs and drugs are idolized by the entire American culture. I mean, Sopranos was the #1 rated show, Crime Drama has always been in the rotation for as long as there has been television. So trying to place 100% of the blame on a culture that "idolizes" thugs and drugs is short sighted.

....
Solving that problem must come from within the community. There are plenty of people willing to help but they can't do much until those within the community want to solve their problem.
.

There is a bit of snake eating its tail here. There are a host of problems here but imo the major problem is lack of economic opportunity. However, it is hard to grow businesses on the bad side of town.

Placing the onus squarely on the community in terms of "wanting to solve their own problems" is using the community as a scape goat. As if the problem can just be solved by willing it away.

Another part of the problem is the systemic targeting of blacks and minorities by law enforcement which creates a ton of problems to include an environment where blacks can't trust the system. I don't know if you've ever seen the hashtag Criming While White. I know that this argument isn't popular but it is a vital component of the problem.

Then there is the matter of the entire "War on Drugs" being specifically enacted on minority communities as well as the entire Corporate Prison Industrial complex in which prisons are privatized. I know this starts to sound a bit tin foil hat-ish but it is a component of the problem as well.

.....
We need to acknowledge the reality that improving impoverished neighborhoods and schools requires motivation and action within each community. Such motivation and action can rarely be imposed from outside ... at least no one has figured out how to do so effectively in more than fifty years of throwing huge resources and money at the problem.
.

Again, this is partly right but mostly wrong. Yes, motivation is all well and good, but all the motivation in the world can't overcome lack of resources like your school not having computers or books or a 50:1 student to teacher ratio while other schools in better tax brackets have a 25:1 ratio, computers and books.

As for "after throwing huge resources and money at the problem..."

I feel as if the above was done in a way to ensure failure. What I mean is that the so-called "money and resources" thrown at the problem most time rarely reaches those it was intended to help. If you follow the money trail a lot of the money gets diverted and never reaches the community or schools but instead gets sucked up into political BS (namely administration or other projects). And when the money and resources actually reach the school/community those in charge are often inept in putting the money/resources to good use.

....It's not much more complex though than rewarding those who achieve and punishing those who create mischief..

This is just so wrong. There is this school of economic and business theory that feels you can fix any problem with incentive and I've always disagreed with it on a fundamental level. If your wife were dying of cancer, that "incentive" isn't going to be enough for you to suddenly discover a cure. At some point there has to be a proper skill base and resource base. "Wanting" economic opportunity isn't enough to spontaneously generate it out of thin air.

And as for walking around thumping all evil doers with a big stick. That is just not going to solve the problem. Human beings are more complex than that. A much better and more efficient approach is to discover the root cause of the problem. And I submit the root cause is much more complex than your simple model of the problem solely being a lack of motivation. That is a cop out. That allows you to place the blame 100% on the victims which in this case are impoverished neighborhoods.

If I were to generate a tree of the problem then the root cause is poverty and lack of opportunity. Next would be the entire "system" of how minorities are treated by authority in this country to include police and the justice system. It's hard to have a stable home when dad is locked away in jail on BS charges or your lose your job because some overzealous cop trampled your civil rights and threw you in jail for being black on a Tuesday and you are locked up for 30 days because you can't afford the $15k bail. The lack of economic opportunity "forces" those within this community to seek out illegal means of earning income. This in turn fuels the system's zeal in cracking down on the community and thus leads to the snake eating its tail a bit in this regard. This in turn spawns a culture within the community that feels there is no hope or opportunity which then feeds into those turning to illegal activities to make money. This leads to a bit of a run away effect to include increase incarceration...

Look, its all well and good to say "hey, if you all were motivated your problems would be solved..." but the reality is that this boils down to money and economic opportunity or lack there of. I don't care how motivated a community is, if there are 50,000 people but only 5,000 jobs then there just isn't enough motivation in the world to overcome that mathematical disparity.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Yes and no. Thugs and drugs are idolized by the entire American culture.

Incorrect. These things are idolized by a large part of the liberal culture. The conservative culture ... not so much.

I mean, Sopranos was the #1 rated show, Crime Drama has always been in the rotation for as long as there has been television. So trying to place 100% of the blame on a culture that "idolizes" thugs and drugs is short sighted.

Not exactly.

Number 1 rated TV show: Big Bang Theory

There is a bit of snake eating its tail here. There are a host of problems here but imo the major problem is lack of economic opportunity. However, it is hard to grow businesses on the bad side of town.

Nah. The fallacy here is "if-only" thinking. If only pigs could fly then all problems would be solved.

People work with what they have and what is available to them. Illegal immigrants come to this country and seem to find jobs.

Placing the onus squarely on the community in terms of "wanting to solve their own problems" is using the community as a scape goat. As if the problem can just be solved by willing it away.

It's more that the idiotic thinking of Obama, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson has demonstrably failed. Try something else.

Personally, I'd recommend turning to God. There's too much hate. But, maybe it's just me ...

Another part of the problem is the systemic targeting of blacks and minorities by law enforcement which creates a ton of problems to include an environment where blacks can't trust the system.

Law enforcement focuses on people likely to commit crimes. The disproportionate rate of violent crimes committed by blacks is not even arguable. If you were in law enforcement you'd do the same thing current police officers do.

I don't know if you've ever seen the hashtag Criming While White. I know that this argument isn't popular but it is a vital component of the problem.

I haven't heard anyone here supporting "white" crime ... excepting for the Clintons.

Then there is the matter of the entire "War on Drugs" being specifically enacted on minority communities as well as the entire Corporate Prison Industrial complex in which prisons are privatized. I know this starts to sound a bit tin foil hat-ish but it is a component of the problem as well.

De-criminalization would be a reasonable first step.

Again, this is partly right but mostly wrong. Yes, motivation is all well and good, but all the motivation in the world can't overcome lack of resources like your school not having computers or books or a 50:1 student to teacher ratio while other schools in better tax brackets have a 25:1 ratio, computers and books.

Consider that if the computers weren't destroyed by young thugs and the teachers weren't in fear of their lives all day ... both those problems would be solved instantly.

As for "after throwing huge resources and money at the problem..."

I feel as if the above was done in a way to ensure failure. What I mean is that the so-called "money and resources" thrown at the problem most time rarely reaches those it was intended to help. If you follow the money trail a lot of the money gets diverted and never reaches the community or schools but instead gets sucked up into political BS (namely administration or other projects). And when the money and resources actually reach the school/community those in charge are often inept in putting the money/resources to good use.

I largely agree with you on the above.

Blame the local Democrats who control all the inner city money.

This is just so wrong. There is this school of economic and business theory that feels you can fix any problem with incentive and I've always disagreed with it on a fundamental level. If your wife were dying of cancer, that "incentive" isn't going to be enough for you to suddenly discover a cure. At some point there has to be a proper skill base and resource base. "Wanting" economic opportunity isn't enough to spontaneously generate it out of thin air.

Yep, it's a chicken/egg problem for sure. Like I said earlier though, as a society we've poured tremendous resources on the problem for half a century and achieved little improvement in satisfaction.

What has been achieved is that large numbers of self-motivated individuals have advanced their skills, moved out of the cities and bettered their stations in life.

And as for walking around thumping all evil doers with a big stick. That is just not going to solve the problem. Human beings are more complex than that. A much better and more efficient approach is to discover the root cause of the problem. And I submit the root cause is much more complex than your simple model of the problem solely being a lack of motivation. That is a cop out. That allows you to place the blame 100% on the victims which in this case are impoverished neighborhoods.

OK. I'm listening ...

If I were to generate a tree of the problem then the root cause is poverty and lack of opportunity.

That appears to be wrong. Plenty of people come to this country with nothing and advance themselves through hard work. As previously pointed out, multiple times even, money has been poured into these communities with few measurable improvements.

Next would be the entire "system" of how minorities are treated by authority in this country to include police and the justice system.

Then, it would seem that someone needs to explain to them that police are trying to help them. Police are attempting to get criminals off the street so that people can live safely and in peace.

Judging from the Baltimore experience, dis-empowering police does not work out well for the community.

It's hard to have a stable home when dad is locked away in jail on BS charges ...

For the most part though, Dad is somewhere parts unknown where he doesn't have to provide child support ... and having a good time, often fathering other children.

... or your lose your job because some overzealous cop trampled your civil rights and threw you in jail for being black on a Tuesday and you are locked up for 30 days because you can't afford the $15k bail.

How is that a "black" problem?

The lack of economic opportunity "forces" those within this community to seek out illegal means of earning income.

Incorrect. The lack of easy opportunity provides an excuse for illegal activity.

This in turn fuels the system's zeal in cracking down on the community and thus leads to the snake eating its tail a bit in this regard. This in turn spawns a culture within the community that feels there is no hope or opportunity which then feeds into those turning to illegal activities to make money. This leads to a bit of a run away effect to include increase incarceration...

At least you agree that this culture is attitude driven.

Change the attitude, change the culture.

Look, its all well and good to say "hey, if you all were motivated your problems would be solved..." but the reality is that this boils down to money and economic opportunity or lack there of. I don't care how motivated a community is, if there are 50,000 people but only 5,000 jobs then there just isn't enough motivation in the world to overcome that mathematical disparity.

There simply isn't enough money in the world to overcome hate.

Turn to God remains my answer.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Incorrect. These things are idolized by a large part of the liberal culture. The conservative culture ... not so much.

Ya know, you'll have a sufficiently long string of reasonable comments that I'll start to doubt my opinion of you, and then you'll pull out something like this.

"Conservative culture" is what gave us the whack jobs who drew down on the federal agents at the Cliven Bundy ranch. "Conservative culture" gave us those REAL-LIFE thugs who threatened REAL-LIFE violence on REAL-LIFE officers who were peacefully trying to take action against a life-long criminal. "Conservative culture" gave us Sean Hannity and others who promoted Bundy as some sort of folk hero.

"Conservative culture" is what gives us the virulent strain of anti-muslim bigotry in this country that does things like protest outside mosques and try to violate the constitutional rights of muslims by preventing them from building houses of worship.

"Conservative culture" is what tries to justify or ignore ongoing violence and discrimination against blacks and gays just for their being black or gay.

I haven't heard anyone here supporting "white" crime ... excepting for the Clintons.

You were around during the Cliven Bundy situation, weren't you?

 

[NightHawkeye]

Ya know, you'll have a sufficiently long string of reasonable comments that I'll start to doubt my opinion of you, and then you'll pull out something like this.

"Conservative culture" is what gave us the whack jobs who drew down on the federal agents at the Cliven Bundy ranch. "Conservative culture" gave us those REAL-LIFE thugs who threatened REAL-LIFE violence on REAL-LIFE officers who were peacefully trying to take action against a life-long criminal. "Conservative culture" gave us Sean Hannity and others who promoted Bundy as some sort of folk hero.

"Conservative culture" is what gives us the virulent strain of anti-muslim bigotry in this country that does things like protest outside mosques and try to violate the constitutional rights of muslims by preventing them from building houses of worship.

"Conservative culture" is what tries to justify or ignore ongoing violence and discrimination against blacks and gays just for their being black or gay.

You were around during the Cliven Bundy situation, weren't you?

If Cliven Bundy is your go-to example for conservative culture gone wrong ... then it seems to me you've lost the argument.

Remind me of just how many people died during the Bundy Ranch stand-off?

 

[iluvatar5150]

If Cliven Bundy is your go-to example for conservative culture gone wrong ... then it seems to me you've lost the argument.

Your argument was that "thugs and drugs" are idolized by liberal culture, but not by conservative culture. However, it was conservative thugs who pointed weapons at the officers at the Bundy ranch. Conservative thugs are the ones who terrorize American Muslims for trying to peacefully exercise their right to worship. Conservative thugs are the ones who approve of and/or ignore abuse by police, particularly when it's directed at racial minorities.

Remind me of just how many people died during the Bundy Ranch stand-off?

None, because the authorities backed down, not because the conservative culture stopped supporting its criminal folk hero or his violence-prone supporters. If the authorities had chosen to exercise their authority to arrest not just Bundy but everyone else who was interfering in the situation, things would've likely gone much different.

 

[NightHawkeye]

It is to be noted that law-abiding citizens were telling their government what to do ... just as the citizens of Baltimore did.

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth". - Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address

 

[Vylo]

It is to be noted that law-abiding citizens were telling their government what to do

Except they weren't law abiding.....

 

[NightHawkeye]

Except they weren't law abiding.....

Remind me exactly how many were arrested. Thanks in advance.

 

[iluvatar5150]

It is to be noted that law-abiding citizens were telling their government what to do ... just as the citizens of Baltimore did.

There was nothing law-abiding about what either Cliven Bundy or his supporters were doing. It's not legal to grave your cattle on federal land w/o the proper permission and it's not legal to point a weapon at and threaten violence towards an officer lawfully conducting his job.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Exactly. There were no arrests. There was no bloodshed. There was considerable restraint exercised by the so-called hot-heads.