New Evidence Concerning the Flood

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Micaiah

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Saucy said:
All I'm trying to do is have faith that what God says is 100% right. I can say that Samson fought and took out over 1,000 men in one battle...by himself and you would say that's implausable. It couldn't happen. Why not? There is NO LIMIT to God's power. Many people I talk to about the flood say it's impossible that there was a canopy of water above the earth. Couldn't God make it happen if He wanted? No, it doesn't make sense scientifically so the bible must be wrong because science takes authority over the bible. Give me a break. If you can't have faith that the bible is accurate and God gave you His word, then I don't see how you can have faith in Jesus' miracles or even how you can call yourself a Christian.

Stick to your guns but be ready to 'have a reason for the hope that is within you'. I agree that Samson took out all those people. God was obviously there is a special way. I'm not so sure about the passage on the mountains though that you are suggesting in Psalms. I'd like to see the passage. Can you provide a reference? Some of the language in the Psalms is poetic and may not be intended to be interpreted literally. When David says for example in Psalm 52:8 that he is like a green olive tree in the house of God, it doesn't mean he has begun to sprout shoots and roots.

Having said that, I see no reason why there could not have been massive geological upheavals during the flood. though I'm not sure of the evidence or otherwise for this. Scripture is clear though that all the hills of the world were covered by the flood of Noah's day, so regardless of what happpened geologically and what the scientific theories are, I believe that what God says is true and did happen. One day science will hopefully catch up with God word.
 
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Micaiah

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KerrMetric said:
No they are not. Neither Behemoth or Leviathan makes a convincing case. Heck, unless dinosaurs were mammals.

So how do we know these creatures were mammals?

KerrMetric said:
See, you've swallowed the party nonsense hook line and sinker. As probably the only person on this entire forum who has performed dating analyses I can tell you that you don' have the least clue what you are talking about.

So you will be able to tell us then how soft dinosaur tissue and what appears to be red blood cells could be preserved for around 80 million years.

KerrMetric said:
RUBBISH. And insulting in the extreme coming from someone I doubt can integrate a polynomial. I am one of these scientists you are accusing of fraud basically.

Are you suggesting that each time you date a fossil you integrate a polynomial. Please do tell us about this one and why this is necessary before you can correctly appraise the accuracy of dating methods. While you are at it please continue and provide us with a detailed explanation of how you carried out the dating of an object.

KerrMetric said:
I would call you a liar except I know you haven't been within a light year of a geophysical lab. You are just parotting silliness some liar told you.

Obviously not many of us have, but there is a lot of material provided by those who have. More of that later. I'm interested in this topic and would like to hear your own explanations. At present about all I have seen is you denigrate people.

KerrMetric said:
My guess is your pastor was as much a scientist as a pro football player. It sounds like getting saved made him a liar or he is just parotting something a liar told him.

From what I have read, people are justified in questioning the objectivity and accuracy of dating methods. Can you tell what you consider to be a reasonable accuracy of an object supposedly 200 million years old, and some the important factors that are required to achieve such an accuracy.

Lets say I jump in the my vehicle and drive out to a place in the bush wanting to find out how old the rocks are. What do I have to do to get an accurate assessment of the age of these rocks? I'm prepared to read a bit of background if you provide the links.
 
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KerrMetric

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Micaiah said:
So how do we know these creatures were mammals?

You already know that.



So you will be able to tell us then how soft dinosaur tissue and what appears to be red blood cells could be preserved for around 80 million years.

Carl Weiland lie #29 out of a collection of 40000+.


There was no soft tissue as you well know. And there was no red blood cells. Again as you probably well know. The tissue was only somewhat soft on rehydration and many minerological deposits can do this. It wasn't what you are trying to make it out to be. Again as you well know.






Are you suggesting that each time you date a fossil you integrate a polynomial. Please do tell us about this one and why this is necessary before you can correctly appraise the accuracy of dating methods. While you are at it please continue and provide us with a detailed explanation of how you carried out the dating of an object.

You know the point I was making - I was pointing out that Saucy hasn't the least clue about what she is typing and again you realise that too. Isn't it funny I keep using the phrase "as you well know" at you.

You know what that is a euphemism for don't you?



From what I have read, people are justified in questioning the objectivity and accuracy of dating methods. Can you tell what you consider to be a reasonable accuracy of an object supposedly 200 million years old, and some the important factors that are required to achieve such an accuracy.

I'm not a textbook for you and either you are too lazy to look or you have and just want to draw this out into a 5000 word essay and think you wi through boredom.

Again WHY don't you tell me what your problems are with dating and I'll critique



Lets say I jump in the my vehicle and drive out to a place in the bush wanting to find out how old the rocks are. What do I have to do to get an accurate assessment of the age of these rocks? I'm prepared to read a bit of background if you provide the links.


No you aren't. You just want to draw this out interminably. Please do soem research and present the problems with it.


Again for the sake of argument - assume I have cut/pasted 5000 pages of text o dating techniques and results. Please provide your rebuttal.
 
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shernren

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Micaiah said:
And you are saying TE's don't do this? I just finished reading a thread in which TE's claim that we should trust what scientists say about evolution but that the first cell was created as a miracle by God since it is too hard for scientists to explain.

Don't twist my words. What I said in the other forum was that since scientists don't really have evidence about how life was formed, it is possible that this did indeed represent some sort of miracle. The context here is different. What happens is that one moment creationists say "Look, this scientific evidence or that scientific evidence supports the flood!" and the next "Well I don't care about science since God can do anything that even science can't explain!" which is completely inconsistent. If you are going to quote my words to support that you will have to catch me saying something like:

"This gene / that process scientifically proves that God created life!"
"Well so what if science says that God couldn't create life! God is above science!"

And I have said neither anywhere.

I'm curious, though, Saucy - can you remember which Psalm this was? Or roughly what the words quoted were? Maybe we can do some kind of search.

From what I have read, people are justified in questioning the objectivity and accuracy of dating methods. Can you tell what you consider to be a reasonable accuracy of an object supposedly 200 million years old, and some the important factors that are required to achieve such an accuracy.

Lets say I jump in the my vehicle and drive out to a place in the bush wanting to find out how old the rocks are. What do I have to do to get an accurate assessment of the age of these rocks? I'm prepared to read a bit of background if you provide the links.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/isochron-dating.html

It was the first link on Google. Google can't be wrong! :D

So how do we know these creatures were mammals?

We certainly know they weren't dinosaurs. There's another thread here which discusses that.
 
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Saucy

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I'll have to research it...look through my concordance and such.

I don't mean to offend, but you are a scientist. I am a minister. I am a man of faith. You are a man of science. I don't doubt the bible. Not one word, not one period. I'm here at a Christian forum, declaring the Word of God and you're telling me I'm wrong. The bible is wrong. God is wrong. My pastor is wrong. Every creationist is wrong. Who or what is above all of them? Science. Science is theory. Man has a theory, called a hypothesis, does studies according to his hypothesis and tries to prove himself right. I've seen it over and over again. Something a scientist says is right one day, a year or two later, another scientist comes along, says that was wrong and has a better theory. Mainstream science changes every ten years or so. Things written in my high school science books are outdated. An example of what I'm talking about is the age of the earth. It changes constantly. If science is exact and is above the Word, then why does it keep changing?
 
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ShallCarry

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You're right that science does evolve... But...

There are constants. There is strong evidence that the universe is more than 6-10K years old. Simplt trig shows us that some stars are more than 6000 lightyears away. This means it took more than 6000 years for the light to reach us. This implies that the universe is more than 6000 years old.

Other stars are too far away to accurately measure. We have methods that give us rough measurements, but I aggree that science will evolve here, giving us different numbers as we advance.

One thing that doesn't change with science... The universe consistantly give us evidence that it is older than a literal reading of the Bible would suggest. The numbers may change a bit, but they are always greater than 6-10K years.

I'm new to these forums. Has anyone discussed the idea that the creation story is allegorical rather than literal?

--Rich
 
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Scholar in training

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ShallCarry said:
I'm new to these forums. Has anyone discussed the idea that the creation story is allegorical rather than literal?

--Rich
Welcome to CF! :wave:

Yes, I have heard of and agree with the idea that the creation account is allegory and not literal fact. Even if the story isn't literal fact (which I do not believe it was intended to be in the first place) it lays out very important ideas in a small amount of space: the nature of God (unanthropomorphic; learned about by what he does, not what he looks like), the monotheism present (God created the sun and moon, not many gods, and the words "sun" and "moon" in the Hebrew are directly avoided so as not to bring any shred of polytheism into the picture), the importance of the Sabbath (placing it in the seventh day of creation; it was intended to be seen as a day of rest, not sloth as the Greeks and pagans saw it), and the rationality of the universe (God does not deceive in his creation; the world is a reality, not an illusion, as Hindus might suggest).
 
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Micaiah

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KerrMetric seems to have trouble answering some relatively straight forward questions. I'll pose them again with a few extras. I understand he is a geophysicist and has done laboratory dating.

KerrMetric,

1. Can you give us your qualifications. What and from where?

2. You claim to have been involved with laboratory dating of samples. What type of samples and dating methods are we talking about?

3. Can you tell what you consider to be a reasonable accuracy of an object supposedly 200 million years old, and some of the important factors that are required to achieve such an accuracy.

4.Lets say I jump in the my vehicle and drive out to a place in the bush wanting to find out how old the rocks are. What do I have to do to get an accurate assessment of the age of these rocks?

The response to date has been along the lines that it would take a 5000 word essay to respond to this question. We don't expect a 5000 word essay, just an outline that demostrates you actually have some idea of what you are talking about.

5. Why do you have so much difficulty providing direct answers to the questions posed.
 
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Saucy

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The universe appears old...stars are billions of light years away, but it's just like when someone posed this question to me..."there are trees that have been dated older than eleven thousand years old. Doesn't that prove that the world is at least older than that?" I answered, "NO!" When God created everything, He created it all mature. Adam and Eve were probably in their thirties. All plant and animal life was fully grown and mature. Science has said that it's possible that light slows down the further it gets. Think of a flashlight. Light could've been much, much faster than recorded now...all the stars could've been placed in maturity, all of it's light already reaching earth...etc...Also, is God not possible of this?
 
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gluadys

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humbledbyhim said:
Let me say something very clear. If God decided to destroy all of mankind or at least wipe out 99.9% then, he doesn't need physics, ecology biology, oceanography. He could have created the extra rain clouds on the spot.:eek:

And what would happen to the extra water afterwards?
 
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shernren

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Saucy:

You are perfectly free to believe that God literally and historically created the world in 6 days 6000 years ago and flooded the whole earth. You are also perfectly free to believe that He did so without leaving any evidence whatsoever, and moreover leaving a lot of evidence that would logically point against the idea that He did so.

But then again, you cannot say that there is scientific evidence that He did.

If I as a man of science have no credentials to influence your interpretation of the Scriptures, then conversely you as a man of faith have no credentials to influence my interpretation of science. Right? If I choose to believe that since science says there was no likelihood of a global flood, that therefore the Bible passages are quite logically talking about something other than a global flood (and not, in fact, that the Bible is to be discarded or burned the way you imply we do), what have you said that can convince me otherwise? Since what I say cannot budge you I don't see any logical possibility of you budging you.

Note how it seems that if creationists are wrong about obscure facts about the nature of the universe, it means that "the Bible is wrong, God is wrong, my pastor is wrong, every creationist is wrong". Rather it means: "what I read of the Bible was wrong ... what I heard God say was wrong ... my pastor and the creationists were wrong about how the world was made, and nothing else." Why stake the truth of God and the Bible on the idea that your idea is right? It's as if for TEism to be right God has to be wrong. No wonder atheists like evolution.

The reason science changes is not because God's creation changes, but because man's view of it changes. (Theology changes too. What modern Christians believe is quite different from what the first Christians believed. The first Christians baptized right after conversion and believed that Jesus would return during their lifetime in first century A.D.) Just because theories of gravity have changed, does that mean gravity doesn't exist? So just because theories of evolution have changed, does that necessarily mean evolution doesn't exist?

Micaiah: Did you read the link I gave you?

Gluadys: Why, back into the infinite pointless miraculous science-overruling power of God! ;)
 
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ebia

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humbledbyhim said:
Let me say something very clear. If God decided to destroy all of mankind or at least wipe out 99.9% then, he doesn't need physics, ecology biology, oceanography. He could have created the extra rain clouds on the spot.:eek:
And cleaned it all up afterwards. And made it look like it never happened at all. Including setting up all the cultures and peoples of the world to carry on as if it had never happened. Which rather defeats the point, doesn't it? If within a generation the whole world looks like it had never happened bar a single story about it, what the heck was the point? God might just as well have given us the story and not bothered with genocide in the first place. Oh, sorry, that is what happened isn't it.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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A few facts about Noah’s Ark:


  • The ark as literally described in Genesis was much too small because the amount of water that it would be capable of displacing would weigh less that the animals on board making it impossible for the ark to float.
  • The floor space on the ark was too small to hold any more than a tiny fraction of the cages that would be necessary to keep the animals in place (and from eating each other).
  • The amount of food required for the animals would weigh nearly as much as the animals and would require a vast amount of storage space.
  • Many of the animals aboard the ark would have required specific FRESH fruits, vegetables, leaves, grass, bark, roots, etc.
  • Most of the genetically discrete populations of fish (including many VERY large fish) would have to be taken aboard the ark and kept in tanks of water that met their very specific water chemistry needs in order to survive.
  • The weight of the water on the earth would have crushed to death any of the land plants that did not drown in the water.
  • After 150 days when the water abated, there would be no vegetation on the earth for the herbivores to eat, and no meat for the carnivores to eat, therefore a vast mount of food would necessarily have been kept on the ark to sustain the animals AFTER the flood.
  • Many of the herbivores would have had very specific dietary needs, including fresh fruits and berries that are produced only on MATURE plants. Therefore these mature plants would necessarily have been kept and maintained on the ark and subsequently planted in the ground after the flood.
  • The Animals could not all be released at once or in the same place because they would eat each other.
  • Collecting the animals from all over the earth would have been a physical impossibility no less impossible than Santa Clause delivering presents to every boy and girl on the night before Christmas.
  • After the flood, the animals could not be returned to their original habitat because all habitats would have been destroyed by the flood.
  • Many of the necessary habitats would take 50 years or more to be reestablished and their reestablishment would have required the effort of many thousands of persons.
  • Until all the necessary habitats could be reestablished, the animals requiring these habitats would have to be kept and cared for by Noah and his family.
  • There was not enough water to cover the entire earth, and even if there was, where did it go after the flood.
  • If the reported sightings of the Ark are correct, the Ark came to rest on a VERY high mountain on VERY rugged terrain from which the vast majority of the animals would not have been able descend.

The story of Noah’s Ark can NOT be a literal account of an historic event. Indescribably huge miracles would have been necessary, and a literal interpretation of Genesis does not allow for these miracles because the whole point of the narrative is that through the natural means of an ark built by Noah and his family mankind and all the kinds of animals were saved from the water.



Therefore, the postulating of an earth with a radically different topography 5,000 years ago than it has today does nothing to diminish the proof that the story of Noah’s Ark can NOT be a literal account of an historic event. And, of course, such a postulate is in direct conflict with the history of the earths features.
 
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ebia

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PrincetonGuy said:
A few facts about Noah’s Ark:
Many of the herbivores would have had very specific dietary needs, including fresh fruits and berries that are produced only on MATURE plants. Therefore these mature plants would necessarily have been kept and maintained on the ark and subsequently planted in the ground after the flood.

Like the half-dozen or so large mature eucalyptus trees for the pair of Koalas (and completely useless to everything else).

And presumably enough to plant a string of eucalypts all the way to Australia to get the poor things back here. That's a heck of a lot of trees, for just one species. The poor things can't eat anything else, and nothing else can eat eucalyptus leaves. Except drop-bears of course, but maybe they count as the same "kind", and they don't actually eat the leaves (AFAIJ), but they still need the trees to hunt from.
 
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Jig

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PrincetonGuy said:
The story of Noah’s Ark can NOT be a literal account of an historic event. Indescribably huge miracles would have been necessary, and a literal interpretation of Genesis does not allow for these miracles because the whole point of the narrative is that through the natural means of an ark built by Noah and his family mankind and all the kinds of animals were saved from the water.



Therefore, the postulating of an earth with a radically different topography 5,000 years ago than it has today does nothing to diminish the proof that the story of Noah’s Ark can NOT be a literal account of an historic event. And, of course, such a postulate is in direct conflict with the history of the earths features.

Answers to all you questions:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/noah.asp

I already know how you feel about AiG....but they truely do answer all your questions. If you find a fault in one, please post it and explain why they are wrong instead of saying they are wrong 'just because' they disagree with you.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Jig said:
Answers to all you questions:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/noah.asp

I already know how you feel about AiG....but they truely do answer all your questions. If you find a fault in one, please post it and explain why they are wrong instead of saying they are wrong 'just because' they disagree with you.

Do you personally find that their answers suggest that they are cognizant of the facts involved?
 
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ebia

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Jig said:
Answers to all you questions:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/noah.asp

I already know how you feel about AiG....but they truely do answer all your questions. If you find a fault in one, please post it and explain why they are wrong instead of saying they are wrong 'just because' they disagree with you.
Not much more than a bit of ad-hoc handwaving: "koalas might have been a bit less specialised" doesn't really cut the mustard. Koalas are incredibly specialised to living on gum leaves. They a physically structured to live in the trees, they are immune to the toxins in eucalypt leaves that kill anything else that tries to eat them and their digestive system revolves around that. They move very slowly, and sleep around 20 hours per day (while they digest the very tough leaves). A koala that can eat anything else isn't a koala, and would take a heck of a long time to evolve into a koala.

There is no explanation of why marsupials are virtually only found in Australia and New Guinea. Bear in mind that the modern kangeroo is an incredibly efficient animal (the most efficient fast runner in world and capable of surviving very harsh conditions), there is no reasonable explanation of why it only exists here except that this is where it evolved. No explanation of why monotremes are only found in Australia and New Guinea. No explanation of the lack of placental mammals here.

The explanations given are entirely ad-hoc. They are not based on any coherent model.

The numbers and space can't be added up unless you pick a definition of kind. Whatever definition you pick creates more problems than it solves, hence the AiG dodging of the issue.
 
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shernren

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Here's an interesting example with regards to the woolly mammoth.

Taken from http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/iceage16.asp

... The remains of hundreds of thousands of woolly mammoths are found across northern Europe, Siberia and Alaska. There was a lucrative trade in mammoth ivory for many years. At least a million mammoths must have lived in Siberia and Alaska.24 But how could the frozen wastes of Siberia have ever produced enough food for the mammoths? Woolly rhinoceros, bison, horses and antelopes also lived there in abundance. Even if the animals migrated there in summer, there would not have been enough food for them.

Furthermore, what did animals such as wooly mammoths, rhinoceros, bison and horses drink during the frozen winters? Such animals need large quantities of liquid water.

Evolutionists, with their eons of time and multiple ice ages, believe that Siberia and Alaska are relatively warm at present,25 compared with the time when mammoths lived there. So, how could these large populations of animals have lived in these areas?

It is estimated that about 50,000 carcasses or partial carcasses may still exist.26 The vast majority show signs of substantial decay before they were buried and frozen, though about a half-dozen intact frozen carcasses have been found.

And from http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v21/i4/mammoth.asp

Third, the large numbers are a problem for the sceptic only because he has not performed the simple calculations required. Consider that the African elephant reaches breeding age at about 14, and its gestation period averages 670 days, while the Indian elephant matures even earlier and has a shorter gestation time.23 disembarked from the Ark, since there was less competition around. It takes only 22 population doublings to exceed eight million, and this number could be reached in only 550 years. Thus it would not be unrealistic to assume that a single mammoth pair could have four offspring by the age of 25. So it is actually generous to the sceptic to assume that the population could double four times per century (even if the parents in each generation died soon after their offspring were weaned). The mammoths would probably have multiplied quite quickly after the single mammoth pair disembarked from the Ark, since there was less competition around. It takes only 22 population doublings to exceed eight million, and this number could be reached in only 550 years.

Alright. Let's put together the creationist scientific timeline.

1. At the end of the flood, the elephant pair walked off the Ark and the Ice Age began. Note, not a mammoth pair. To solve the problem of too many animals on the ark they postulate that only a pair of each kind, and not species, were on the ark. (I am not making this up. It is contained in a footnote at the bottom of the page from the second link.)
2. Woolly mammoths reproduced healthily over 550 years in Siberia as the Ice Age steadily worsened.
3. After that, towards the end of the Ice Age, the woolly mammoths couldn't adapt to the environment and started dying out. Throughout this period and the previous 550 is when the large "cemeteries" of woolly mammoths formed.
4. The Ice Age ended 700 years after the Flood with the woolly mammoths all but extinct.

Does this scenario match up with what we see?

Firstly. Exactly what kind of elephant was on the ark? We know there was only one pair. Was it more mammoth, or more modern elephant? Well, creationists assume that the global flood resulted in warm oceans. As water falls from the skies it loses potential energy and this loss of energy means a gain of heat energy for the oceans they fall in. So a global flood would have caused global heating of the oceans. A mammoth would have suffered heatshock in tropical temperatures. Therefore it was an elephant.

This immediately raises problems. No mammoth pair disembarked from the ark! It was an elephant pair! Where did the mammoths come from? They must have been elephants that adapted to the extreme cold of the polar regions, right?

But look carefully at this explanation of the post-Flood Ice Age:

Meteorologist Michael Oard22 has estimated that it would have taken only about 700 years to cool the polar oceans from a uniform temperature of 30°C at the end of the Flood to the temperatures observed today (average 4°C). This 700-year period represents the duration of the Ice Age. The ice would have started accumulating soon after the Flood. By about 500 years after the Flood, the average global ocean temperature would have cooled to about 10°C, and the resulting reduced evaporation would have caused much less cloud cover. This, combined with the clearing of the volcanic dust from the atmosphere, would have allowed more radiation to penetrate to the earth’s surface, progressively melting the ice sheets. Thus the glacial maximum would have been about 500 years after the Flood.

In other words, right after the Flood, the polar regions were actually experiencing tropical climates! Now, how would the elephants have adapted to polar conditions to form mammoths if there were no polar conditions for them to adapt to? Oops. To be more precise, though: they say that the glacial maximum was 500 years after the flood, and that the Ice Age ended 700 years after the flood to reach today's polar climactic conditions. Thus it took 200 years for the glacial maximum to shrink to today's conditions: assuming a linear trend, today's polar conditions would also have begun 200 years before the glacial maximum, meaning that from when polar conditions began to the end of the Ice Age was 400 years. That's not enough time, even by AiG's own estimate.

But let's be generous to the creation scientists and invoke one miracle. Let's say that the conditions in the polar regions were immediately polar climate conditions, giving them the maximum benefit of the doubt, and take their estimated rate of four doublings a century = 1 doubling in 25 years. Firstly, the mammoths had to get to Siberia (and Alaska, too, but we'll kindly ignore that) and then adapt to the cold (since there wouldn't have been polar conditions between Ararat and Siberia). Let's say, absurdly, that they got to Siberia in one year walking directly there doing nothing else whatsoever. Let's say, even more absurdly, that they adapted to the glacial cold in 200 years - or in eight doublings; that rate of adaptation would be akin to dropping a white couple in Africa and expecting the fifth or sixth generation to be completely African black. Even giving them far beyond the benefit of the doubt, they only have 500 years to reach the population required.

But wait. What were they adapted to? They were certainly adapted to the conditions of glacial maximum. After all, we don't have woolly mammoths today (whatever we have in Nepal), so they died out because they weren't fully adapted to today's conditions. But the polar conditions weren't optimum all through the Ice Age: they were mostly higher temperature than the conditions of glacial maximum (after all we're talking about glacial maximum), which means that the doubling rate could not have been the optimistic rate AiG gives, since more mammoth young would have died, less mammoth reproduction would have taken place (since there wouldn't have been enough food), etc. Instead of 25 years' doubling time, let's take 30 years' doubling time. Reasonable?

Putting it all together:
1. Elephants got to Siberia a year after the flood,
2. The first pair of woolly mammoths appeared 200 years after,
3. They had 510 years to double their population at the rate of 30 years per doubling. (510 is easier for the calculations than 500. This gives creationists another window for hope.)

With this (only slightly) more reasonable model, the total population of all woolly mammoths, dead and alive, would be 2 + 4 + 8 + ... + 2^18 = 2(2^18-1) = 524286, far short of AiG's 8 million, and barely enough if every single one of them was fossilized (which would not have been the case) ... and this model already makes ridiculous concessions to the creation science position.

So how?
 
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PrincetonGuy

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Jig said:
Answers to all you questions:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/noah.asp

I already know how you feel about AiG....but they truely do answer all your questions. If you find a fault in one, please post it and explain why they are wrong instead of saying they are wrong 'just because' they disagree with you.

Let’s begin with the first paragraph in the article for which you provided the link:



“The Bible reveals that God judged the Earth with a great Flood such that ‘all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man…. Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.’ Although biblical skeptics often dismiss this account as pure mythology, Christians should accept the word of God Who was there rather than the opinions of fallible men who were not. The articles and resources below will help you uphold the biblical account and answer questions about Noah and the Flood.”



The Bible does NOT reveal that “God judged the Earth with a great Flood ….” A much more accurate statement would be, “We find in the early chapters of Genesis an epic story in which ‘God judged the Earth with a great Flood.’



The expression, “Biblical skeptics,” is a deliberately false ad hominem attack upon every Old Testament scholar specializing in the book of Genesis who is writing and publishing today. These men are NOT “Biblical skeptics”—they are men who have devoted their lives to the study of the book of Genesis that we may all have a more accurate understanding of the truths contained in that book.



The phrase, “often dismiss this account as pure mythology,” deliberately misrepresents the view of Old Testament scholars specializing in the book of Genesis who are writing and publishing today. Assertions made with the intent to deceive have been known for the past nine centuries as “lies.”



The phrase, “Christians should accept the word of God Who was there,” misrepresents the very nature of the Bible, and the book of Genesis in particular. No where in the Bible does it say or suggest that God wrote Genesis. Yes, Genesis, like the rest of the Bible, is an inspired work, but that is NOT to say that God sat down, picked up some clay tablets, and wrote the Book of Genesis. It is VERY much more likely that Moses or some other ancient Jews were inspired by God to collect the oral and written traditions concerning the creation and the flood, and that they did so much as Luke was inspired by God to perform his research and write his Gospel and the Book of Acts.



Luke 1:1. Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us,

2. just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word,

3. it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus;

4. so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught. (NASB, 1995)



There is only one place in the entire Bible that describes the mode inspiration of Scripture in any detail, and that description is given to us above by Luke.



The phrase, “the opinions of fallible men who were not,” in reality, describes the creationists’ opinions of Genesis just as much as it describes the Bible scholars’ opinions of Genesis.



The last sentence in this first paragraph, “The articles and resources below will help you uphold the biblical account and answer questions about Noah and the Flood,” is a gross distortion of the truth. This last sentence should read,



“The articles and resources below will help you uphold the AiG interpretation of Genesis and answer questions about Noah and the Flood from the AiG perspective, a perspective that is no longer held today by any of the Old Testament scholars specializing in the book of Genesis who are writing and publishing today.”
 
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