New Age Can Give You Spiritual Insight!

Elisha_7

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A FALSE CHRIST:

I do not post this out of harmful intentions but to reveal some very shocking spiritual truth that you just need to listen!

I hope you all can listen to this if your truly do Love the Lord Jesus and Love His Word! :) Most of you have not heard such outrageous things before! But what Johanna has stated is true coming from her experience in the occult!

Watch and listen if you can so you know and not be blind!

So examine yourself and your theology if you are believing what is Biblical! EG Catholic theology, You don't need Jesus you can be save if your a born a Jew, Just believing in the OT will give you salvation and so on.

Yes even we examine our theology if it is scripture or not and not just believe blindly that well if you die you can go to purgatory a place for a 2nd chance to get into heaven.

As Jews you should be right on top of this as for the Christians leaders committed to theological truth! Not just again say it does not concern you and so forget about it.

If it does not concern you then you should join arms with the New Age and practice your belief with them, if spiritual issues is not of your concern. Or just get into the occult for they can fill you with spiritual insights and longing that you want to exp! But it won't be from Christ! This is what Catholic theology has done for example or what Jews with out Jesus have done.

But the far more dangerous issue is a false Christ! How many of you are aware of this dangerous issue hitting every church in the World?

Some of you who read this will not be happy but that is good you need to hear it too, its the truth!

Are you for Christ or are you out to led Gods Flock astray?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Qy1j2LBmU
 

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A FALSE CHRIST:

I do not post this out of harmful intentions but to reveal some very shocking spiritual truth that you just need to listen!

I hope you all can listen to this if your truly do Love the Lord Jesus and Love His Word! :) Most of you have not heard such outrageous things before! But what Johanna has stated is true coming from her experience in the occult!

Watch and listen if you can so you know and not be blind!

So examine yourself and your theology if you are believing what is Biblical! EG Catholic theology, You don't need Jesus you can be save if your a born a Jew, Just believing in the OT will give you salvation and so on.

Yes even we examine our theology if it is scripture or not and not just believe blindly that well if you die you can go to purgatory a place for a 2nd chance to get into heaven.

As Jews you should be right on top of this as for the Christians leaders committed to theological truth! Not just again say it does not concern you and so forget about it.

If it does not concern you then you should join arms with the New Age and practice your belief with them, if spiritual issues is not of your concern. Or just get into the occult for they can fill you with spiritual insights and longing that you want to exp! But it won't be from Christ! This is what Catholic theology has done for example or what Jews with out Jesus have done.

But the far more dangerous issue is a false Christ! How many of you are aware of this dangerous issue hitting every church in the World?

Some of you who read this will not be happy but that is good you need to hear it too, its the truth!

Are you for Christ or are you out to led Gods Flock astray?

Every man is a house. If a man enter into the Yeshua faith he and his house is no longer his own but relinquished unto the new House Master. The House Master then one day goes away in a far journey and leaves the man in charge of the house while the House Master is away. Yet when the Master goes out he gives the keys of the dominion of the house with all its lands to the porter, and commands the porter to watch the door of the same house which used to be his own, (if we are purchased with a price then we are not our own). Therefore the house in which you dwell is the house which you are given charge to watch over while your House Master is away. Likewise every man has a fig tree and a vine and there be just four generations to the man. ;)

Mark 13:28-37 KJV
28. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29. So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
30. Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
31. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36. Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Therefore, O porter of the door; WATCH! ;)
 
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yedida

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She is a WOF teacher. We are gods? She quotes Copeland and his crew. I would NOT recommend paying much attention to her. Sorry. (I was caught up in all that WOF junk for years. Nearly cost me my physical life! Would definitely not recommend it to anyone!)

My personal opinion is that the video should be removed from this thread. It definitely does not represent MJj, neither does Ms. Michaelsen.
Swallowing the Camel: The Prodigal Witch: A Thumbnail Sketch of Johanna Michaelsen
 
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sevengreenbeans

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She is a WOF teacher. We are gods? She quotes Copeland and his crew. I would NOT recommend paying much attention to her. Sorry. (I was caught up in all that WOF junk for years. Nearly cost me my physical life! Would definitely not recommend it to anyone!)

My personal opinion is that the video should be removed from this thread. It definitely does not represent MJj, neither does Ms. Michaelsen.
Swallowing the Camel: The Prodigal Witch: A Thumbnail Sketch of Johanna Michaelsen

I thought she was speaking against the "we are gods" thing when I watched the video. I thought it was very informative and agreed with most everything she said. My oldest son was taught meditation at a private school by his teacher, who had the entire class meditate once a day. I told him to pray during that time, instead. An "elder" once tried to remove a demon from my youngest son when he was 4... as the "elder" was under his own delusion that "we will all do the works of Jesus Christ" - he quoted to me "this one will come out by fasting and prayer", which I later learned was an addition to the text!!!! We have to know the Word of YHWH to guard against people who say they come in His name!!! We have to know how to test THEIR spirits when they want to test ours or our children's!!!! I have experienced unexplained spiritual phenomena myself throughout the course of my life, so I have no doubt the existence of the spiritual realm.

What bothered me about the video, but I was not at all surprised by, was the way she speaks of her personal occult experiences. It seems to be spoken of with fondness, while denouncing all the rest. It has been my observation that people who have been involved in the occult tend to always have an interest. (So, I put myself on guard during that portion of the video! I just didn't like the way she was presenting it, almost as if she was trying to glamorize her own experiences, to pique interest. -- Be careful of that!!!)
 
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yedida

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I thought she was speaking against the "we are gods" thing when I watched the video. I thought it was very informative and agreed with most everything she said. My oldest son was taught meditation at a private school by his teacher, who had the entire class meditate once a day. I told him to pray during that time, instead. An "elder" once tried to remove a demon from my youngest son when he was 4... as the "elder" was under his own delusion that "we will all do the works of Jesus Christ" - he quoted to me "this one will come out by fasting and prayer", which I later learned was an addition to the text!!!! We have to know the Word of YHWH to guard against people who say they come in His name!!! We have to know how to test THEIR spirits when they want to test ours or our children's!!!! I have experienced unexplained spiritual phenomena myself throughout the course of my life, so I have no doubt the existence of the spiritual realm.

What bothered me about the video, but I was not at all surprised by, was the way she speaks of her personal occult experiences. It seems to be spoken of with fondness, while denouncing all the rest. It has been my observation that people who have been involved in the occult tend to always have an interest. (So, I put myself on guard during that portion of the video! I just didn't like the way she was presenting it, almost as if she was trying to glamorize her own experiences, to pique interest. -- Be careful of that!!!)

I probably spoke too soon about "removal" of the vid, we're not that bad! but at least I placed a disclaimer on it...lol. I had a long intense experience with WoF and not a pleasant one at that in retrospect. Perhaps it's different now, some 20 - 30 years later?
 
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sevengreenbeans

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I probably spoke too soon about "removal" of the vid, we're not that bad! but at least I placed a disclaimer on it...lol. I had a long intense experience with WoF and not a pleasant one at that in retrospect. Perhaps it's different now, some 20 - 30 years later?

Are you meaning "Word of Faith"? I am not that familiar with that... is it like "name it and claim it" stuff?

If so, I agree with you that it can be dangerous, indeed.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I thought she was speaking against the "we are gods" thing when I watched the video. I thought it was very informative and agreed with most everything she said.
'

Seeing what she said, I thought the "Ye are Gods" thing was interesting in light of what the scriptures have often noted on the subject of elohim and the differing levels of it. There was a really good thread on the issue elsewhere, as seen in Ye are gods... The "ye are gods" as I grew up understanding it was always about sonship/identity more than anything else - with Christ being an Elohim and making us into Elohim as well ( more shared in #27 , #46 #47 #37 and #90 ).

We see where Paul say "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God" and "if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so that we suffer with him, that we may be [future—at resurrection] also glorified together" (Rom. 8:14 and Romans 8:17). Also, as said in Romans 8:29:

"For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he [Jesus] might be the firstborn among many brethren" (verse 29).
In Micah 6: 7 and Zechariah 12: 1 0 the ''firstborn'' is the most loved child. In Exodus 4:22 we find another meaning of "firstborn" when God calls Israel his ''firstborn son." What God is saying is that he has designated this nation as his number one nation, the one closest to his heart.

Finally, in Psalm 89:27 we discover that the Davidic king will be appointed God's "firstborn." Again there is no hint that God actually has a hand in this man's procreation. What is meant is that God symbolically adopts him and places him in the number one position in his family. "Firstborn" is thus the place of honor and leadership which the Davidic king is said to occupy.
Thus, it can easily be deduced that Paul is using the language about a "firstborn" son metaphorically, as the Old Testament does. Jesus is not presented as a creation of God (i.e. not being eternally existent) or as a child of God born through some goddess (as taught in pagan mythology), but as the chief of God's family, whether the old family of creation or the new family of redemption. He is before it. He is the cause of the family. He is the leader of the whole family.

And yet at the same time, he is described by the scriptures as being BEGOTTEN/Born of the Lord because of the fact that the Resurrection was a moment of Rebirth for the Lord. The "first begotten of the dead" in time (Revelation 1:5). He was "declared to be the Son of God with power, by the resurrection from the dead" (Romans 1:4). When Paul at Antioch preached on the resurrection, he declared that God "hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee" (Acts 13:33). He is the only begotten Son eternally and now the first begotten Son by resurrection, "the first fruits of them that slept" (I Corinthians 15:20).

The phrase "Only Begotten" is very interesting to consider. For the Greek word for "only begotten" is monogenes, the very form of which clearly denotes "only generated." As monotheism connotes only one God and monosyllable means a word of only one syllable, so monogenes means only one genesis or only one generated--or, more simply, only begotten. It does not mean "one," or even "one and only." It is worth noting that, although Christ is called the Son, or Son of God, frequently in the New Testament, He is never (in the Greek original) called the "only" son of God. The fact is, that to call Him the only Son of God would make the Bible contradict itself, for He is not the only Son of God, and certainly not the "one and only" Son of God. Angels are several times called the sons of God (e.g., Job 38:7) since they had no fathers, being directly created by God. Likewise, Adam was called the son of God (Luke 3:38), because he was directly created. The same applies even to fallen angels (Genesis 6:2), and even to Satan (Job 1:6), because they also were created beings. The term is also used in a spiritual sense, of course, for those who have become "new creations" in Christ Jesus by faith (II Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 2:10; etc.). In this sense, we also are "sons of God" (e.g., I John 3:2) by special creation?not physically but spiritually.

But it is never applied in this sense to Christ, for He is not a created son of God (as the Jehovah's Witnesses and other cultists teach), but a begotten Son of God--in fact, the only begotten Son of God. He never had a beginning, for He was there in the beginning (John 1:1). In His prayer to the Father in the upper room, He spoke of "the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (John 17:5).

As it concerns her quoting people from the WOF Movement such as Copeland, I try to take it with a grain of salt. Growing up in the Faith Movement and seeing the many variations of it, it was always a matter of finding out what things were on point and what things needed to be discarded - as opposed to throwing out the baby with the bathwater - since many things noted in the camp were very much scriptural, even though where some took it was radically different and extreme. Whenever I'd hear stories of others who chose to either denounce doctors or say that medicine being used went against "walking in faith", my mom (who's an OB-Gyn) and I were always put off by it ...and thankfully, other folks in the movement noted where the extremes folks went to were not representative of all within the camp of the Faith Movement. There will always be civil war sadly and that is something that has been very prominent when seeing the ways the movement has evolved from the 80s to the 90s and today.

And the variations of things always made a difference. There was another good thread that sought to go in-depth on the issue as seen in Has Messianic Judaism been positively or adversely affected by Word Faith Teachings? (as well as #42/ #43 and #46/#46 / #47 /#48 )
 
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daq

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Easy G (G²);61936250 said:
Seeing what she said, I thought the "Ye are Gods" thing was interesting in light of what the scriptures have often noted on the subject of elohim and the differing levels of it. There was a really good thread on the issue elsewhere, as seen in Ye are gods...

Just read a few pages of that thread but did not want to dredge it up from the abyss. However, perhaps ''Ye are gods'' indeed but not in the sense of the good way in which the man invariably tends to think of himself? For the same reason Yeshua did not commit himself unto men, because he knew all men, and needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man'' (Jn.2:24-25). Thus the ''Ye are gods'' statement is not a good thing when compared to the commandment:

Exodus 20:1-3 KJV
1. And God spake all these words, saying,
2. I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

The commandment includes ourselves because he states: ''Ye are gods'' ...

Isaiah 14:16-17
16. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17. That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

''Therefore beware the anthropon-man-faced; for they will deliver you up to the sanhedrins, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; and ye shall be brought before governors and kings for the sake of Yeshua, for a testimony against them and the heathen'' ... :)
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Just read a few pages of that thread but did not want to dredge it up from the abyss. However, perhaps ''Ye are gods'' indeed but not in the sense of the good way in which the man invariably tends to think of himself? For the same reason Yeshua did not commit himself unto men, because he knew all men, and needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man'' (Jn.2:24-25). Thus the ''Ye are gods'' statement is not a good thing when compared to the commandment:

Exodus 20:1-3 KJV
1. And God spake all these words, saying,
2. I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

The commandment includes ourselves because he states: ''Ye are gods'' ...
I think the usage of Exodus 20:1-3 is off a bit due to the full context of what Yeshua noted when saying "Ye Are Gods" in the positive form. And although man can glorify himself needlessly and think of himself as a "god" when he really isn't (in the sense of glorifying himself), it doesn't mean that God did not make man God-Like.

There was much within Jewish thought/Eastern culture that was in no way against the concept that man was a "god"...as that was never seen as counter to the fact that God is the Creator of man and man will never become like him. Nonetheless, he is an Elohim.

On the Jewish perspective, on John 10:31-33, within its larger context:

John 10:20-33
....Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[c]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
With John 10:31-33, one must remember that the Jews had already made clear that they claimed the ENTIRE Torah was theirs and that they were going to stone Jesus for it when he seemed to break it for claiming He was God. They felt that the Law God had given them in Exodus 20 was being broken when it came to Jesus doing what it was that they were going to stone Him for previously in John 8:59...and that issue was self-identificaiton as God, which they understood to be blasphemy. Their understanding of BLASPHEMY was based on how claiming to be God and, specifically, pronouncing God's name (as Yeshua had just done) were punishable by death (Leviticus 24:15-16 and Mishna Sanhedrin 7:5, "The blasphemer is not guilty until he pronounces the NAME.")

With John 10:34-36, the phrase "Your Torah" is something that is often read without other considerations. For here, "Torah" means "Tanakh, " since the passage quoted is from the Psalms, not the Pentateuch. When Jesus says "You people are Elohim", here Greek theoi ("gods"), in the Hebrew text of Psalm 82 the word "elohim" may be translated "God," "gods," "judges" or "angels." Yeshua's rabbinic mode of Bible citation implies the context of the whole psalm (Matthew 2:6), which plays on these meanings:
"Elohim [God] stands in the congregation of EL [God]:
He judges among the elohim [judges/angels/gods]: How long
will you judge unjustly?..I have said , "You are elohim [judges/angels/gods],
All of you are sons of the Most High."
Nevertheless you will all die like a man
And fall like one of the princes.'
Arise, Elohim [God (the Judge)], and judge the earth,
For you will inherit all the nations." (Psalm 82:1-2, 6-8).
And again, to be clear, it needs to be understood that in Judaism the citation of a Scripture text implies the whole context, not merely the quoted words. And with what Jesus quoted on Psalm 82, the first and last "Elohim" mean "God," but the others should be rendered "judges," "gods" or "angels." Yeshua's wordplay implies a rabbinic-style kal v' chomer argument (Matthew 6:30): if humans, who do evil works as they "judge unjustly" are elohim, how much more is Yeshua, who does good works (John 10:25, John 10:32-33, John 10:37-38, etc) Elohim; and if "all of you are sons of the Most High," how much more does the description "Son of God" apply to Yeshua.

Moving beyond that, one can also consider again John 15:24-26

24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’[a]
The phrase "Their law ..." stresses the inordinate regard the priests had for the external features of Moses' law (which is what Christ was frequently against when it came to the Pharisee's interpretation of the Law in legalistic/"Letter of the Law" thinking rather than the intent of the Law---Love, which is what God has repeatedly noted is the TRUE Law. With the religious leaders, it was "theirs" in the sense of the affectionate regard they professed for it, while actually denying it by their sinful conduct. Note that the quotation ascribed to "the law" was not from the Pentateuch, thus revealing that the term "law" was a reference to the entire Old Testament.

Being made in the Image of God/His LIKENESS, I choose to believe that man was made to be like him...as well as recognizing that God will always be superior to man/the Savior and Master of all.

This goes back to what happened at the Fall of man when he fell from the State he was in...as many are of the thought that man, as he participated with the Spirit of God/followed him, was in the process of glorification---becoming a "god"/"son of God" and elohim just as it is when men are called to grow in reflecting the Lord/becoming more like him.

I definately agree with the thought that "gods" can be equated with "judges"...especially when considering things such as Psalm 82 and how those in the community had been commissioned by God to rule with justice/reflect Him in their administration for the oppressed. Its similar to the dynamic of divine agency...and in line with what it means to be truly a "son of god" when one reflects his character/heart.

.....On John 10:33-35 where Jesus said to the Jews "You are gods"...for commentary on the issue (IVP New Testament Commentaries ):
Jesus defends his claim using language they should be able to understand, through an appeal to the law. He cites a text that uses the word god of those who are not God: Is it not written in your Law, "I have said you are gods"? (v. 34). It is unclear who is being referred to in Psalm 82:6. Of the several proposals made by scholars (cf. Beasley-Murray 1987:176-77), the most likely takes this as a reference either to Israel's judges or to the people of Israel as they receive the law. The latter is a common understanding among the rabbis (for example, b. 'Aboda Zara 5a; Exodus Rabbah 32:7), but the former is also represented in Jewish interpretation (Midrash Psalms; b. Sanhedrin 6b; 7a; b. Sota 47b). Jesus' explanation that these gods are those to whom the word of God came (v. 35) might point to the Israelites receiving the law. In this case the contrast between these gods and Jesus would be that Jesus is the one who both fulfills the law and is greater than the law.

But this expression to whom the word of God came could also refer to the judges (as suggested by the rest of Ps 82) who have received a commission from God to exercise the divine prerogative of judgment on his behalf. The psalm is actually a condemnation of the judges for not exercising their responsibility faithfully, thus corresponding both to the condemnation of these Jewish leaders in John and to Jesus as the true judge.

To make his point Jesus uses an argument from the lesser to the greater, a very common form of argument in the ancient world, not least among the rabbis. He compares the people who are called gods to himself, the Son of God. They merely received the word of God, whereas he is the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world (v. 36). Here is a succinct summary of the central truth of his identity, which has been emphasized throughout this Gospel. He is using the language of an agent (see note on 5:21), but the implication is that he existed with the Father before coming into the world. Thus, he is putting himself in the category of the law that was given by God rather than in the category of one of the recipients of that law. By saying he was set apart ("consecrated," hagiazo) he is claiming a status similar to the temple, whose reconsecration these opponents are celebrating at this feast.
Many people may be unaware of the actual history behind the time when this psalm was written, as this short psalm is a vindictive pronouncement against corrupt judges. "Gods" in Cannaanite culture, was spoken in a time when the heads of clans, tribes, or city-kings were highly venerated by following generations and often recieving the title of "gods"...and obvious is the fact that Jesus quoted in John 10:34 to defend his claim to sonship. Since all the Jewish leaders were called "gods....children of the Most High".....and to be clear, the reference does not attribute deity to the judges to whom it refers, but was a title of commendation, noting the God-Given capacities of Human Life and Will--the Fruit of being made "in his image."

To the best of my understanding, Psalm 82:2, which Christ referenced in John 10 where Jesus made clear that the psalm proved that the word "god" can be legitimately used to refer to others than God Himself...with the affirmation being that scripture cannot be broken and that the authority of scripture will always stand.. On the basis of the entire issue, as with Psalm 82 (much like Psalm 2 and Psalm 58), the focus is on the injustices of tyranny....and the Psalmist pictures standing in the assembly of earthly leaders, to whom He has delegated authority, and condemning their injustices. The first part deals with the assembly of world leaders before God (Psalm 82:1), the second part deals with the evaluation of World leaders by God (Psalm 82:2-7) and the third part deals with the replacement of world leaders with God (Psalm 82:8). The scene in Psalm 82 opens with God calling the world leaders together, with the "gods" being human leaders, such as Judges, kings, legislators, and presidents (Exodus 18:21-23, Exodus 21:5-7, Exodus 22:8-10, Deuteronomy 1:15-17, Deuteronomy 16, etc). There was nothing wrong in the culture of Judaism with saying others in leadership positions were "gods."

The common thought was that God is the Great Judge who presides over the lesser judges. In Psalm 82, God accuses the lesser judges of social injustices that violate the Mosaic Code/Law, Deuteronomy 24:8 --just as He still does with those in positions of judging matters when the Lord has placed them into a position of leadership.

The leaders exercise authority over those the lord has entrusted them to show justice to, the divinely established moral order undergirding human existence is destroyed. As seen when God Himself stated "I have said 'you are gods'" in verse 6 of Psalm 82, Kings and judges/rulers are set up by the Lord ultimately to give stability...hence, why God invests His authority in Human leaders Romans 13:9....but God may check leaders on it when it is used wrongly...as the psalm makes that clear that despite being made in God's image as those who were charged to walk in authority/show who He was, they would die like human beings, with unjust rulers becoming vunerable to violent deaths often accompanying the wicked.

For those who're "gods" are the ones who're in position of authority. Had nothing to do with them being deity or ones to be worshipped as the true God was. But it was very much a Divine matter since authority is given divinely/by association makes one in connection with that which is Divine----just as it is the case with us who share in the Lord's Spirit so that we can become conformed to His nature/operate in His power.
It is true that the Hebrew "Elohim" can be translated as "Judges" also......but the Greek had separate words for judges (KRITIKOS) and god (THEOS). This word is THEOS in [John 10:34]. Thus....it can only mean that He was referring to the fact that He considered the passage in [Psalm 82:6] to mean gods. So....according to the scripture He offered the Jews....it was not blasphemous. It is the ultimate destiny of all who would believe in Him.

Let's face it. If you someday are born into the family of God and receive eternal life as a spirit being in that family......and you are referred to as a child of God.....then you are in essence.......going to be called gods......as well.

Additionally, there's also the issue of the perspectives in Hebraic culture on how the same concepts of "god" were seen in other usages. Satan being the "god" of this world according to II Corinthians, with other scriptures making clear the language used to to convey the idea of one in a position of authority---as he is the ruler of this earthly realm/in the heairarchy of Heaven, angels cannot contend against him directly/speak against him....though as based on Jude and the view of spiritual hiearchy in the spiritual realm, that's another issue.
 
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Just read a few pages of that thread but did not want to dredge it up from the abyss. However, perhaps ''Ye are gods'' indeed but not in the sense of the good way in which the man invariably tends to think of himself?
I think it's best to see the "Ye Are Gods" concept within the sense of authority/power and that it's Biblical so long as man doesn't glorify Himself (as the fallen angels did) in thinking of themselves more highly than God - or thinking that they are self-sufficient like the Lord.

There was more discussed on the issue elsewhere - as seen in #88 and #25.

I'm reminded of A scripture which is often used in reference to explaining the orgins of the Devil--Lucifer--and how the King of Tyre was symbolic of what occured in the spiritual realm, as Tyre. Previously Ezekiel had prophesied against the city of Tyre (chapters 26-27/Ezekiel 26:7). Here he focused his prophecy on Tyre's leader. The chief sin of Tyre's king was pride--believing himself to be a god. But Ezekiel also had a broader application, speakinh about the spiritual king of Tyre. Satan, whom the people were really following and who had motivated the King to Sin...... For some of the phrases in this passage describing the human king of Tyre may describe Satan....but great care must be taken to interpret these verses with Discernment...as it's clear that , at times, Ezekiel describes this king in terms that could not apply to a mere man.

  • This king had been in the Garden of Eden,
  • had been anointed as a guardian cherub, and had access to the Holy Mountain of God
  • ..but was driven from there
This passage is also the one that's commonly thought to be in line with other verses on the Fall of Satan:
Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:11-13 (in Context) Isaiah 14 (
And there're numerous arguments on the issue that can be given out if anyone's interested....
Ezekiel 28:2
“Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD:“ Because your heart is lifted up, And you say, ‘I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods, In the midst of the seas,’ Yet you are a man, and not a god, Though you set your heart as the heart of a god
Ezekiel 28:1-3 (in Context) Ezekiel 28
Ezekiel 28

Proclamation Against the King of Tyre

1 The word of the LORD came to me again, saying, 2 “Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD:


“ Because your heart is lifted up,
And you say, ‘I am a god,
I sit in the seat of gods,
In the midst of the seas,’
Yet you are a man, and not a god,
Though you set your heart as the heart of a god
3 (Behold, you are wiser than Daniel!
There is no secret that can be hidden from you!
4 With your wisdom and your understanding
You have gained riches for yourself,
And gathered gold and silver into your treasuries;

5 By your great wisdom in trade you have increased your riches,
And your heart is lifted up because of your riches),”

6 ‘Therefore thus says the Lord GOD:


“ Because you have set your heart as the heart of a god,
7 Behold, therefore, I will bring strangers against you,
The most terrible of the nations;
And they shall draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom, And defile your splendor.

8 They shall throw you down into the Pit,
And you shall die the death of the slain
In the midst of the seas.


9 “ Will you still say before him who slays you,
‘ I am a god’?
But you shall be a man, and not a god,
In the hand of him who slays you.

10 You shall die the death of the uncircumcised
By the hand of aliens;
For I have spoken,” says the Lord GOD.’”
Lamentation for the King of Tyre

11 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD:


“ You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 “ You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.


15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.

16 “ By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.
17 “ Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.
18 “ You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever
Quote:

The same issue can be seen here, as one took the term "god" in application of WORSHIP OF SELF and of one who, feeling entitled to do whatever it was he wanted and being above correction/control (as did the King of TYRE) ( Acts 12:25 ):
Herod's Death

Then Herod went from Judea to Caesarea and stayed there a while. 20He had been quarreling with the people of Tyre and Sidon; they now joined together and sought an audience with him. Having secured the support of Blastus, a trusted personal servant of the king, they asked for peace, because they depended on the king's country for their food supply.


21On the appointed day Herod, wearing his royal robes, sat on his throne and delivered a public address to the people. 22They shouted, "This is the voice of a god, not of a man." 23Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died.
24But the word of God continued to increase and spread.
Understanding culture actually makes a difference...

That said....when reading the Word, we realize that the language of "gods" is used to refer to those who were in authority/rank in the heavenlies (angels, spirits, etc), Job 1:5-7, 2 Corinthians 4:4, 2 Peter 2:10-12, Jude 1:8, 1 John 5:19, Ephesians 2:2, Ephesians 6:11-13, Daniel 9:1, John 12:30-32, John 16:10-12, Colossians 1:15-17, Colossians 2:14-16 ...

And all of them deal with acknowledging rank/authority of various kinds (though all under the ultimate control of the Lord). As the Psalmist said, “For all the gods of the nations are worthless idols, but Yahweh made the heavens” (Ps. 96:5)...and in seeing what other Jewish believers have made clear, it’s not that ancient Jews didn’t believe in other gods (or things that they called gods) – for Yahweh is called the ‘God of gods’ (Deut. 10:17; Ps. 136:2; Dan. 2:47; 11:36) — but rather that they didn’t believe that these were ‘true’ gods and therefore didn’t devote themselves to them lest they become idolaters (and we do know that Israel had a sordid history of idolatry). For Paul the thought is the same which is why he can speak to the Galatians and say “formerly when you didn’t know God you were enslaved to those that are by nature not gods” (Gal. 4:8).

I'm curious as to whether or not you've ever heard of the work of Dr.Michael Heiser? Although he is not necessarily a "Messianic", he is a well-trained scholar in Near-Eastern/Middle Eastern studies and Semitic languages. He also works with Logos Bible Software, used throughout the Body of Christ and well known for their excellence in the programs they give out. He has done alot of work on topics that can be of a controversial nature....and what he has often noted in his work concerning the "Divine Council" has been very insightful/engaging over the years. I've been very blessed for many of the things he has noted.

With Heisner, it seems he was clear that he was speaking of Deity rather than "Divine" beings alone when it came to what he stated. As seen in what he said in his paper entitled "Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible. For more information, more can be found at his organization known as "The Divine Council - Michael Heisner".....as what was offered was really part of a chapter in a series of 8 papers. All of which are very well-researched and with many intriguing thoughts.
 
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Easy G (G²);61938193 said:
With John 10:34-36, the phrase "Your Torah" is something that is often read without other considerations. For here, "Torah" means "Tanakh, " since the passage quoted is from the Psalms, not the Pentateuch. When Jesus says "You people are Elohim", here Greek theoi ("gods"), in the Hebrew text of Psalm 82 the word "elohim" may be translated "God," "gods," "judges" or "angels." Yeshua's rabbinic mode of Bible citation implies the context of the whole psalm (Matthew 2:6), which plays on these meanings:
"Elohim [God] stands in the congregation of EL [God]:
He judges among the elohim [judges/angels/gods]: How long
will you judge unjustly?..I have said , "You are elohim [judges/angels/gods],
All of you are sons of the Most High."
Nevertheless you will all die like a man
And fall like one of the princes.'
Arise, Elohim [God (the Judge)], and judge the earth,
For you will inherit all the nations." (Psalm 82:1-2, 6-8).

I understood the context of the quote from Psalm 82 but it seems you did not fully understand the point I was attempting to make. Notice how the following allegorical passage from Ezekiel sounds very similar to what you have posted from Psalm 82. The same may be said of the often debated 2Thessalonians2:1-12 so-called ''antichrist'' passage, (that is to say that the same may be said of it when properly interpreted which does not happen in most English translations because the ''lawless one'' comes out from ''the midst'').

Ezekiel 28:1-9 KJV
1. The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
2. Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
3. Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
4. With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5. By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6. Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7. Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8. They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9. Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

Perhaps the following might help explain my perspective. It is not necessarily the man himself which is the ''god'' (which little horn ''god'' must needs be slain) but more like the ''close companion'' of the man who is ''like unto his own soul'' or the ''wife of his bosom''. From my perspective the soul of the man and his anthropon-countenance are not the same entity but rather one of them is ''acquired along the way''…

Yeshua says; Whosoever shall confess me in the presence of the anthropon, even shall the Son of the anthropou confess him in the presence of the messengers of the Theou. But he that disavows me in the presence of the anthropon shall be disowned before the messengers of the Theou. And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of the anthropou, it shall be aphiemi-sent away. But him against the Spirit Holy blaspheming, not shall it be aphiemi-sent away. So when they bring you to the synagogues, and to the archons, and to the powers, take you no thought how or what thing you shall answer, or what you shall say: for it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak. For it is not you that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

And then a certain one from the throng said to him; Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me! And Yeshua says to him, Anthrope! Who made me a judge or a divider over you? And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The 'adamah-soil of a certain wealthy anthropon-man-faced brought forth bountifully: and he reasoned within himself, saying, What shall I do, for I have nowhere to bestow my fruits? And so he said, This will I do: I will raze my granaries, and greater will I build; and there will I bestow all my grains and my goods. And I will say to my soul: Soul, you have much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry! But the Theos said unto him; Aphron! this night the soul of you shall they demand from you: and what you have prepared, to whom shall it fall?
 
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I understood the context of the quote from Psalm 82 but it seems you did not fully understand the point I was attempting to make. Notice how the following allegorical passage from Ezekiel sounds very similar to what you have posted from Psalm 82.
It's nowhere near similar, seeing that Psalm 82 has it where GOD is calling the men His Sons/Elohim - whereas Ezekiel involves a man claiming to be such by his own power/might. Differing categories.

Christ seemed to make that clear distinction when using Psalm 82 to speak of himself being Divine based on what the Law said. And as it concerns what Jesus noted in John 10 on "gods", something to consider is that it was not beyond Jewish thought to think that other gods/beings existed. It was actually the minority who worshiped only YHWH. In earliest Judaism, I don't doubt that the people believed in all of the claimed gods of the nations, but they were told to restrict their worship to YHWH. Not that the other gods didn't exist, but that it was improper for them to worship these other deities, since it was YHWH who delivered them from Egypt. If it had been Kemosh who extended his hand and redeemed the people from Egypt, they would have worshiped him instead.

It was not until a later stage in the religious development of the people of Israel that the gods of the other nations turned from "weaker gods" into "no gods at all - only images". The whole point of the Exodus was that YHWH was strong enough to defeat the gods of the Egyptians and to take his people out of their land. If there were no gods in Egypt, what was the point of YHWH showing off? It wouldn't have required much at all, since no one could have offered resistance to him...and in the beginnng, the beings backing Egypt could duplicate some of what God did such as turning staffs into snakes or making blood--though they were still inferior since Moses's staff/snake ate theirs and they could not reverse the plague of blood at all. They could only keep adding more blood. At one point, they realized that God was superior in all ways to the "false gods."

In the mind of the ancient Hebrew people, the "gods" of other nations were real deities. YHWH received Israel as his inheritance, but other gods received other peoples. This is mentioned in Deut 32:8-99, where the nations are apportioned to the sons of the Gods (see the LXX and DSS on these verses, which read ἀγγέλων θεοῦ and בני אל [or בני אלים], respectively, instead of the MT בני ישראל).
בהנחל עליון גוים בהפרידו בני אדם
יצב גבלת עמים למספר בני אלים\ישראל
כי חלק יהו-ה עמו יעקב חבל נחלתו
When Elyon apportioned the nations, when he separated the sons of man, he established the borders of the peoples by the number of the sons of the gods/Israel, and YHWH's portion was his people,* Yaakov the region of his inheritance.
We see here Elyon apportioning the peoples according to the number of the children of the gods, and each God received a portion among the sons of man. YHWH received Israel as his own inheritance. [The dividing of the nations according to the MT was "by the number of the sons of Israel", which is assumed to be the 70 who went down into Egypt along with Jacob and his household. This is what led to the mistaken belief that there are only 70 nations in the world.]



As it concerns the issue that GOD's in control ultimately/the only one to be worshipped, one can go online/look up for more on what was mentioned earlier on the concept of Monolatry...and for some extra info, here are some excellent resources you can investigate for yourself if choosing to go online/look them up under the following titles:
As one kat said best on the issue:
The belief that only YHVH is an independently effective divine power is de facto monotheistic. It reduces all other supernatural beings to the level of angels, spirits, and the like. Since biblical Hebrew generally continued to use words for "gods" (elim and elohim) to refer to those supernatural beings, whose existence was not denied, we cannot speak of monotheism in the etymological sense of the word but only in the practical, de facto sense just described.
As Albright put it, "Mosaic monotheism, like that of the following centuries (at least down to the seventh century [B.C.E.]) was…practical and implicit rather than intellectual and explicit…The Israelites felt, thought, and acted like monotheists."
Monolatry dealt with those in positions of rulership and Paul even noted that. There was a dualistic thought of the ways in which "god" was seen. For as 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 demonstrates, Paul explicitly grants that there are "so-called gods" in heaven and earth such as the pagans recognized in Greek and Roman mythology. In addition, he mentions the many "gods" (again, a desigination of something) and "Lords" (rulers) who are called such in scripture (Deuteronomy 10:16-18/Deuteronomy 10 ,Psalm 136:1-3/Psalm 136 ), and who in the widest sense represent rulers in the universe who're SUBORDINATE to God ( Colossians 1:15-17 , Colossians 2:15, Hebrews 2:13-15, etc ).
Galatians 4:7-9 also comes to mind, as it concerns the pursuit of devoting oneself to legalism as something that's essentially paganism/worship of "gods...

In pagan culture, those "gods"===especially within Greek culture==were seen as independent/all-powerful as if they were SUPREME Gods to be worshipped. What Paul is teaching is that the "so-called gods" of the pagans are unreal in the sense that they're deified/held as those to be worshipped...and that the real "gods" and "lords", whatever they may be, are all subordinate to the only one supreme God whom alone we recognize.

This is why understanding Hebraic language is so key, as whenever people hear the phrase "there is no god but me", there'll be error if failing to recognize that saying such does not mean that there're no other "rulers/mighty ones" or those in positions of authority in existence----but solely in the sense of others who're worthy of worship or independent in/of themselves.

As seen in verse 6 of I Corinthians 8, the Father is the source (ex hou) of all creation, and Jesus Christ is the dynamic One through whom (di' hou ) creation came into existence. As for the Christian, he lives for God who is the source of alll and has power for so living through Jesus Christ. Consequently, as Paul implies, there should be no concern with idols or meat sacrificed to idols---which is Pauls' larger theme if going throughout the book fully...

For in verse 4, the main thing to remember is that what was occuring was that people were afraid of eating meat offered to idols and Paul had to make clear that the idols before which the meat was sacrificed and the god it represented were actually nothing--that is, nothing as to personal reality and power. Deuteronomy 6:4 , 1 Kings 18:38-, Isaiah 45:4-6 ).

If considering the concept of Psalm 82/The Divine Council, it'd make sense if it was referencing those fallen heavenly beings that fell from their places of authority----beings in which the scriptures say men are foolish for even trying to slander them/speak flippantly on them-----for if they did not do their job and sought to do their own thing, Psalm 82 would be a good description of how the Lord cursed them....
II Peter 2:11
Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
(
Jude 1:7-10
8In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings. 9But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" 10Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.

Jude 1:6
And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.


Another option, of course, is Henotheism. What Henotheism focuses on is saying that there are other gods...and that while one may choose to worship one, there's nothing wrong with worshipping another if one wants to. That is not the same as saying other gods exist but ONLY One is worthy of Worship/Supreme (which is what's known as Monolatry....the system that early Hebrew culture/believers advocated). Henotheism is similar but less exclusive than monolatry because a monolator worships only one god (denying that other gods are worthy of worship), while the henotheist may worship any within the pantheon, depending on circumstances, although they usually will worship only one throughout their life (barring some sort of conversion). Some things labeled "henotheism" are not within the same realm as other systems...although the labels may not be the most accurate. For more, one can go online/consider the following (if searching under this specific label):



  • "HEBREW HENOTHEISM" ( //www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/henotheism.htm )
 
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Hahaha ... I see you beat me to the Tyre post while I was posting my reply. :)
^_^

Something to considered on the matter, as said best by Michael Heisner in his article entitled "Monotheism, Polytheism, Monolatry, or Henotheism? Toward an Assessment of Divine Plurality in the Hebrew Bible, on " at his website on "The Divine Council" (for a brief excerpt):


.....When the biblical writer asserts, &#8220;Who is like you, O Lord, among the gods (Deut 10:17; Ex 15:11)?&#8221; these statements reflect a sincere belief and are neither dishonest nor hollow. Comparing Yahweh to the ancient equivalent of an imaginary or fictional character cheapens the praise. The Psalms contain many exclamations of the incomparability of Yahweh to the other gods (Ps 86:8, 95:3; 96:4; 135:5; 136:2). David (Ps 138:1) proclaims that he will sing the praise of the God of Israel &#8220;before the gods&#8221; (neged )e5lo4h|<m), a declaration that makes little sense if lesser )e4lo4h|<m did not exist.
3.

.....So what should we make of the Hebrew Bible&#8217;s affirmation of the existence of other gods? Does this mean that we have to surrender the view that Israel&#8217;s religion was monotheistic? The short answer is &#8220;No, but we ought to avoid using a 17th century term to describe an ancient Semitic worldview.&#8221; When scholars have addressed this tension, terms like &#8220;inclusive monotheism&#8221; or &#8220;tolerant monolatry&#8221; have been coined in an attempt to accurately classify Israelite religion in both pre- and post-exilic stages. These terms have not found acceptance among many scholars. The frustration over nomenclature is due to the fact that &#8220;monotheism&#8221; is a modern term, appropriated and popularized by deists during the Enlightenment, applied to the ancient Israelite belief system. Other scholars have argued for an &#8220;incipient monotheism&#8221; that could perhaps include the affirmation of other gods who were inferior.


...............
The plural elohim / ha-elohim
Psalm 86:8 - Among the gods there is none like you, O Yahweh; neither [are there any works] like your works.

Psalm 95:3 - For Yahweh is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

Psalm 96:4 - For Yahweh is great, and deserving of exceedingly great praise: he is to be feared above all gods.

Psalm 97:7 - All who served images were put to shame; those who boasted in mere idols; even all the gods bow down before him [Yahweh, see v. 5 preceding]

Psalm 97:9 - For you, O Yahweh, are Most High above all the earth: you are exalted far above all gods.

Psalm 135:5 - For I know that Yahweh is great, and that our lord is above all gods.

Psalm 136:2 - O give thanks to the God of gods: for his mercy endures for ever.

Psalm 138:1 - I will praise you with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise to you.

The plural elim

Exodus 15:11 &#8211; Who is like you, O Yahweh, among the gods? Who is like you, majestic in holiness, awesome in splendor, doing wonders?9

Psalm 58:1 - Do you indeed decree what is right, O gods? Do you judge people fairly?10

It is common for those who resist the face-value meaning of the text of Psalm 82:1, 6 to argue at this point that such references to other gods are actually references to idols, or that they are figurative expressions&#8212;that Israelites didn&#8217;t really believe such beings exist. The first objection is discussed in detail in the next chapter. For now take another look at Psalm 97:7 in the above list. It clearly distinguishes the gods from idols. The psalmist mocks the people who bow down to idols, and adds that even the gods who the idols represent bow down to Yahweh!
 
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For myself, I had to throw the baby out with the foul water. If I hadn't, I'd be dead now. In fact, the only thing that kept me alive was my infant daughter. For her, I had to be alive.
I am talking about the way WoF was back in the 70s-early 90s. But when I returned to the Lord last decade, I originally returned to what I knew, Copeland, Moore, Pearce, Saville, etc., and they didn't seem any different than I remembered them. Thank God I didn't get sucked in again!
 
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For myself, I had to throw the baby out with the foul water. If I hadn't, I'd be dead now. In fact, the only thing that kept me alive was my infant daughter. For her, I had to be alive.
Thank goodness for the life of your infant daughter - as there are many tragic stories where others didn't value life and it cost them. Some of the stories I've heard/seen are frustrating (even in my own family - as my stepfather's mother died as the result of the "Trust God/Walk in Faith" claims when the pastor of her church told her not to get medical help for diabtetes ) - and it always makes me upset to see so many get away with it.....although there are many others where they truly felt the Lord called them to not seek things/it went well - but it was at the leading of the Lord/in His timing, as opposed to being guilted into thinking they HAD to do it because of something they heard on TBN.
I am talking about the way WoF was back in the 70s-early 90s. But when I returned to the Lord last decade, I originally returned to what I knew, Copeland, Moore, Pearce, Saville, etc., and they didn't seem any different than I remembered them. Thank God I didn't get sucked in again!
A lot of the things they did have been consistently at the extreme - and sadly, the good things they did note have often been taken into a wrong application by others. I don't follow any of them since the ones I grew up with (Dollar, Jakes, Joyce Myers, Duplantis, Myles Munroe, Keith Butler, Fredrick Price, Lester Sumural, T.L Osborn, etc.) were often more balanced on many things.

Years ago, I was working/cleaning - and among the many books stocked up in our house from the 80's/90's, managed to just catch note of a book that greatly impacted my mothers's life when raising me as a single child and going to medical school/living in the working poor class....by Jerry Savelle..


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It was very impactful to us and--despite any of the errors done by the man---had to give the man props regarding the reality of what He spoke in John 10:10 and on the Joy of the Lord. Many things in the book that I disagreed with, of course....but seeing how spot on the rest of it was, alongside the remembrance of how mom and I lived out the principles within it/saw the change in our lives that enabled us to get through, I was very much glad that I was able to rediscover the book by the man....

Something Savelle said on p.g 64:
In John 16:33 Jesus said, "In the world ye shall have tribulation......"..and some people stop reading here and think we are supposed to have tribulation all the time. But Jesus hadn't finished talking. He said "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world (John 16:33). Don't read "In the world y shall have tribulation" and then close the book...for if you do, you'll identify with the wrong part of the verse----the tribulation and adversity


Rest of it was simply on the issue of rejoicing---which is a Biblical concept/more than necessary for others today. Basically, the joy of the Lord is our strength.
 
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daq

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Easy G (G²);61938713 said:
It's nowhere near similar,


You do not see it in your own quote?

--]All of you are sons of the Most High."
Nevertheless you will all die like a man
And fall like one of the princes.[--

In addition are you suggesting that the Word of the Father has not come to you?
Yeshua is the Word according to the author of this particular Gospel account.

John 10:34-35 KJV
34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
 
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Gxg (G²)

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You do not see it in your own quote?

--]All of you are sons of the Most High."
Nevertheless you will all die like a man
And fall like one of the princes.[--

;
Noting where others are sons of the Most High (as God proclaimed over those who were elohim) isn't the same as Ezekiel where one claimed to be a "god" and yet the Lord rebuked him for being no such thing according to how He saw it. In the sense that they both use the term "god" in the ideas they're expressing, indeed, similarity exists - but overall, their themes/concepts are radically different.
In addition are you suggesting that the Word of the Father has not come to you?
Seeing that I already noted where Yeshua was correct in using Psalm 82 (which notes the existence of elohim considered as "gods"/divine) in order to line up with the principle of arguing from greater to lesser as it concerns His Divinity as Messiah/The Son of God, of course it was never the case that anything was suggested to say that the Word of the Father has not come.
Yeshua is the Word according to the author of this particular Gospel account.

John 10:34-35 KJV
34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken
Amen. Nothing has been said, of course, that's counter to that:):cool:
 
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