Nephilim Rising - UFOs and the New World Order

[WayWord]

If you knew much of anything about Paganism you'd understand that it covers an incredibly broad range of beliefs. You'd understand how ludicrous it is to associate Neo-Pagan religious movements with the establishment power and corruption that drove so many religious idealists away from traditional religion and toward various forms of primarily nature based mysticism. Hirarchies are for the most part antithetical to the movement, ultimatly it almost always comes down to one person and thier understanding/relationship with the Great Mystery, Divine or gods that help them grow.

There are lot's of Christians who support abortion because they don't believe that life begins at conception. I could throw out all sorts of links, however I'm sure you can google it yourself if your interested.



Actually.. you are I think, not because your saying they should be rounded up and killed, but because you've erased the primary reason such actions could not be justified. If there actually was a Luciferian global elite made up of angel-human hybrids I think most people wouldn't have a problem taking them out.

I don't think I associated Neo-Pagan religious movements with the establishment power and corruption. Luciferians do not fit the definition of Neo-Pagans. They are the Synagogue of Satan, deceived into believing that good is evil, and evil is good. They also believe that they can commit numerous evil deeds, so long as they balance them with good deeds. Anyway, most of the wrongs of traditional religion such as the Catholic 'Church' were a result of infiltration and usurpation by the Babylonian/Egyptian mystery schools. Catholicism is nothing more than paganism with Christian window-dressing. And the Protestants churches in America have been infiltrated and subverted for a long time. (Henry Ford wrote about it as early as the 1920's).

 

[WayWord]

I do know some Birchers. Interesting. They are Ron Paul supporters.
If there really was a powerful race, they probably would've been able to take over by now, do you not think?
If not, then they aren't that powerful.

Throughout history, freedom and liberty have been rare. Tyranny is the norm.

Who has been in control of humanity throughout most of human history? Has it not been royalty and nobility? Or sacred priesthoods? The Catholic Church along with the kings of Europe reigned tyrannically for over a thousand years until the Protestant Reformation*. I believe the movement toward freedom started by Martin Luther was the impetus for the creation of the Illuminati and their program of world revolution (leading to a one-world government). They plan to establish a scientific global dictatorship, an occult theocracy that will rule from Jerusalem.

* It was because of the Protestant desire for every Christian to own and read a Bible that literacy began to spread amongst so-called 'commoners' in Europe. If it wasn't for the Reformation, we'd probably all still be a bunch of illiterate, ignorant peasants. Unfortunately, this is the state our society seems to be returning to (by the design of the global elite).

Also see:

Proofs of a Conspiracy Against all the Religions and Governments of Europe

"The great strength of our Order lies in its concealment; let it never appear in any place in its own name, but always covered by another name, and another occupation".

"Of all the means I know to lead men, the most effectual is a concealed mystery. The hankering of the mind is irresistible;" Adam Weishaupt (code-name Spartacus)

Carried on in the Secret Meetings of Free Masons, Illuminati and Reading Societies.

Collected from Good Authorities by John Robison, A.M. Professor of Natural Philosophy, and Secretary to the Royal Society of Edinburgh. Fourth edition 1798.

from http://www.bilderberg.org/lucis.htm

George Washington acknowledged the Doctrines of the Illuminati were spreading in United States (in Library of Congress)

"It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am."

 

[ACougar]

I don't think I associated Neo-Pagan religious movements with the establishment power and corruption.

You might want to watch those videos again yourself.

Luciferians do not fit the definition of Neo-Pagans. They are the Synagogue of Satan, deceived into believing that good is evil, and evil is good.

I've met Satanists, not sure they qualify as the Luciferians your talking about. The Satanists I've met are just unabashidly pro-self interest. They are honest and open about thier motivations, which revolve around what's good for them.

They also believe that they can commit numerous evil deeds, so long as they balance them with good deeds.

I realize that a lot of people think this way, however most are unable or unwilling to openly discuss thier rationalization.

Anyway, most of the wrongs of traditional religion such as the Catholic 'Church' were a result of infiltration and usurpation by the Babylonian/Egyptian mystery schools.

I would agree that some influence occured, however infiltration and usurption? Imagine a Preacher walked up to you one day and asked you to leave the Church and infiltrate the Mosque down the street. Not for a few years or months, but for the rest of your life. You and your family would live as Muslim, practice Islam while secretly working to convert Muslims to Christianity. A thousand years later, your decendants are still practicing Muslims seeking to undermine Islam. It just doesn't pass the sanity test.

Catholicism is nothing more than paganism with Christian window-dressing. And the Protestants churches in America have been infiltrated and subverted for a long time. (Henry Ford wrote about it as early as the 1920's).

Catholicism was more heavily influenced by pre-christian religious practices than Protestentism, however the fundamentals don't line up with most Pagan religions.

Go back and reread the differant peoples stories and compare them to the stories of your religion. Original sin and the need for redemption, while showing up in some Pagan traditions is for the most part a Judeo-Christian idea. Reliance on the the death of Jesus as payment for sins, and salvation from eternal damnation. This it seems to me is the fundamental core of Christian teaching, and it's pretty much the same in both Catholic and Protestant Churches. Now there is differnat pomp, cermemony and practice (window dressing) in your differant Churches, but the core is still the same so I don't think it's fair to Catholics or Pagans to call Catholics Pagan.

 

[Steezie]

I don't think I associated Neo-Pagan religious movements with the establishment power and corruption. Luciferians do not fit the definition of Neo-Pagans. They are the Synagogue of Satan

Ya know I kinda hope you chose Synagogue because it rhymes with Satan...

Anyway, most of the wrongs of traditional religion such as the Catholic 'Church' were a result of infiltration and usurpation by the Babylonian/Egyptian mystery schools.

**Snort giggle** Such as?

And the Protestants churches in America have been infiltrated and subverted for a long time. (Henry Ford wrote about it as early as the 1920's).

Henry Ford was also a rabid capitalist and industrialist, not exactly the guy I'd go to for spiritual guidance

 

[WayWord]

You might want to watch those videos again yourself.

I remember it claiming that pagans unknowingly worship demons and fallen angels, which I believe to be true.

I've met Satanists, not sure they qualify as the Luciferians your talking about. The Satanists I've met are just unabashidly pro-self interest. They are honest and open about thier motivations, which revolve around what's good for them.

Satanists are not the same as Luciferians. Look up Adam Weishaupt, Albert Pike, Helena Petrovna Blavatksy among others. Luciferians worship Lucifer as god while believing Yahweh to be evil. Very similar to Gnosticism. Luciferians usually don't announce their beliefs in public. Often they would rather pretend to be Christian or Jewish.

I would agree that some influence occured, however infiltration and usurption? Imagine a Preacher walked up to you one day and asked you to leave the Church and infiltrate the Mosque down the street. Not for a few years or months, but for the rest of your life. You and your family would live as Muslim, practice Islam while secretly working to convert Muslims to Christianity. A thousand years later, your decendants are still practicing Muslims seeking to undermine Islam. It just doesn't pass the sanity test.

The Catholics were about power and control. Read the New Testament and compare that to the history of Catholicism. The majority of those Popes, cardinals, and bishops certainly weren't following Christ. How did they go from monotheism to praying to saints, adoration of relics, and worshiping Mary as the Queen of Heaven? There were also the indulgences (paying money for forgiveness of sins), the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the crazy doctrine of papal infallibility.

Catholicism was more heavily influenced by pre-christian religious practices than Protestentism, however the fundamentals don't line up with most Pagan religions.

Maybe better to describe it a as a merger or marriage between Christianity and paganism. The force of the truth of Christianity was unstoppable. Persecution only made it stronger, so Satan decided to corrupt it instead.

 

[WayWord]

Ya know I kinda hope you chose Synagogue because it rhymes with Satan.

That's a reference to The Revelation to John.

Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. (King James Version)

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

**Snort giggle** Such as?

Worshiping Mary as the Queen of Heaven for one. The Catholic version of Isis/Ishtar.

Henry Ford was also a rabid capitalist and industrialist, not exactly the guy I'd go to for spiritual guidance

Doesn't mean he was wrong about everything. Also, he was more decent than most employers of the time, doubling his workers' salaries and reducing their work day to 8 hours.

 

[Steezie]

Worshiping Mary as the Queen of Heaven for one. The Catholic version of Isis/Ishtar.

If I remember correctly, Mary Queen of Heaven is only a title or a name, I dont know of any Catholics who actually believe Mary is queen of heaven.

Doesn't mean he was wrong about everything. Also, he was more decent than most employers of the time, doubling his workers' salaries and reducing their work day to 8 hours.

He also exerted dictatorial control over his worker's lives and enforced a strict moral code on them. He was also the pioneer of the company store, a store run by his company was often the only store the workers could shop at, meaning the company made back the money they spent on wages.

 

[ACougar]

I remember it claiming that pagans unknowingly worship demons and fallen angels, which I believe to be true.

To posit that another religion understands a less perfect version of the truth, or that the Gods of that religion do not truely exist is to be expected. However to claim that the Gods of all other religions are demons and fallen angels from your own religion is offensive.

I also think your confusing a lot of differant ideas from differant religions. Here is some interesting reading: http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/world/christ/xt-ibel2.htm

Satanists are not the same as Luciferians. Look up Adam Weishaupt, Albert Pike, Helena Petrovna Blavatksy among others. Luciferians worship Lucifer as god while believing Yahweh to be evil. Very similar to Gnosticism. Luciferians usually don't announce their beliefs in public. Often they would rather pretend to be Christian or Jewish.

Are you saying that Adam Weishaupt, Albert Pike, Helena Petrovna Blavatksy were luciferians? What do you base this on? My impression is that Gnostics tend to focus on Jesus and Sophia, I've done a little reading on the subject but found it annoying. Why would someone who believes something else, bother to pretend to be another religion? It would be so much easier to simply pretend to believe nothing, if they wanted to keep it secret.

The Catholics were about power and control. Read the New Testament and compare that to the history of Catholicism. The majority of those Popes, cardinals, and bishops certainly weren't following Christ.

They justified thier thirst for power and control with the need to spread thier faith. In thier defense, it's a common error made by most religions at some point in time.

How did they go from monotheism to praying to saints, adoration of relics, and worshiping Mary as the Queen of Heaven? There were also the indulgences (paying money for forgiveness of sins), the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the crazy doctrine of papal infallibility.

Pragmatism. You come accross a village that believes in say... the Goddess Brigid. Brigid isn't viewed as a Supreme Diety of any sort, but as someone who intercedes on thier behalf. The Catholic Church makes her a Saint, saying that if people pray to her she will pray to God on thier behalf. Thier teachings about Jesus and Redemption however are the focus, and what would have been a long and violent transition becomes smooth and easy.

The other things you quote are further examples of the quest for power and pragmatism. When the Church/Religion wields temporal power it becomes corrupt. I'm not a Catholic and have never been a Catholic, however despite it's mistakes they have done a lot of good as well. They have also given up much of thier temporal power, so they are probably a lot less comprimised than the Church of old.

Maybe better to describe it a as a merger or marriage between Christianity and paganism. The force of the truth of Christianity was unstoppable. Persecution only made it stronger, so Satan decided to corrupt it instead.

I think your confusing Paganism with temporal power. People in power saw that coopting religion would serve thier interests, religion felt that an alliance with temporal power would further it's own goals... so an alliance was made.

 

[WayWord]

If I remember correctly, Mary Queen of Heaven is only a title or a name, I dont know of any Catholics who actually believe Mary is queen of heaven.

He also exerted dictatorial control over his worker's lives and enforced a strict moral code on them. He was also the pioneer of the company store, a store run by his company was often the only store the workers could shop at, meaning the company made back the money they spent on wages.

They call their worship of Mary devotion or veneration. Despite the semantical trickery, it amounts to the same thing.

Welcome to the website of the
Blessed Virgin Mary, Queen of Heaven

That the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of Jesus, was born of an Immaculate Conception;

That the Blessed Virgin Mary found favor with God and is blessed amongst all women;

That Our Lady Mary, gave birth as a virgin to the Messiah, Our Lord Jesus;

That the Blessed Virgin Mary will hear our prayers and will beg God and His Son, on our behalf, for our help, for our forgiveness and for our salvation.

from http://www.geocities.com/reginamundi77

Yes, I know Ford was not an angel. Doesn't mean he was a liar.

 

[WayWord]

To posit that another religion understands a less perfect version of the truth, or that the Gods of that religion do not truely exist is to be expected. However to claim that the Gods of all other religions are demons and fallen angels from your own religion is offensive.

I also think your confusing a lot of differant ideas from differant religions. Here is some interesting reading: http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/world/christ/xt-ibel2.htm



Are you saying that Adam Weishaupt, Albert Pike, Helena Petrovna Blavatksy were luciferians? What do you base this on? My impression is that Gnostics tend to focus on Jesus and Sophia, I've done a little reading on the subject but found it annoying. Why would someone who believes something else, bother to pretend to be another religion? It would be so much easier to simply pretend to believe nothing, if they wanted to keep it secret.



They justified thier thirst for power and control with the need to spread thier faith. In thier defense, it's a common error made by most religions at some point in time.



Pragmatism. You come accross a village that believes in say... the Goddess Brigid. Brigid isn't viewed as a Supreme Diety of any sort, but as someone who intercedes on thier behalf. The Catholic Church makes her a Saint, saying that if people pray to her she will pray to God on thier behalf. Thier teachings about Jesus and Redemption however are the focus, and what would have been a long and violent transition becomes smooth and easy.

The other things you quote are further examples of the quest for power and pragmatism. When the Church/Religion wields temporal power it becomes corrupt. I'm not a Catholic and have never been a Catholic, however despite it's mistakes they have done a lot of good as well. They have also given up much of thier temporal power, so they are probably a lot less comprimised than the Church of old.



I think your confusing Paganism with temporal power. People in power saw that coopting religion would serve thier interests, religion felt that an alliance with temporal power would further it's own goals... so an alliance was made.

I suppose reading the Bible would insult you then.

Romans ch. 1
21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23: And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

1 Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

To the Gnostics, the Demiurge/Devil is connected with the God of the Old Testament. This clearly runs contrary to the teachings of Yahshua/Jesus. As for evidence of Luciferianism.

"The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine."

On July 14, 1889 Albert Pike issued instructions to the twenty-three Supreme Councils that gave a full exposition of his doctrines and beliefs. Pike stated:

"That which we must say to the crowd is - We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition.

To you Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees - The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine....Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also God." (Occult Theocrasy, p.220-221), [Edith Starr Miller]

from Immorals and Dogma

Albert Pike was a lawyer, Confederate general, and 33rd degree Mason who wrote a book called Morals and Dogma, possibly the most important and influential of all Freemasonic works. There is a temple dedicated to him in Washington D.C.. It is called the House of the Temple and was modeled after the Mausoleum of Mausollos. Pike is also the only Confederate general who has a statue honoring him in D.C.. Other interesting historical personages worthy of investigation are John Dee, Francis Bacon, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, Manly P. Hall, Aliester Crowley, and Jack Parsons. Benjamin Franklin's alleged connection with England's Hellfire Club is also an intriguing subject.

"Masonry is a search after Light. That search leads us directly back, as you see, to the Kabalah." (Morals and Dogma, p.741)

WHAT IS THE KABALAH?

The Kabalah,a Jewish Occult book, is a "Jewish mystical tradition teaching Godhood to Man. Foundation of most post-Egyptian, Western magical systems." (The Magicians Dictionary, p.208, [E.E. Rehmus, 1990 Feral House]

THE KABALAH SAYS THAT GOD IS AN "OCCULT LIGHT"

"To conceive of God as an actuality, and not as a mere nonsubstance or name, which involved non-existence, the Kabala, like the Egyptians, imagined Him to be 'a most occult Light,'"..(Morals and Dogma, p.740)

LUCIFER SUPPLIES THE LIGHT OF FREEMASONRY

"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!" (Morals and Dogma, p.321)

Also from Immorals and Dogma linked to above.

You can examine the text at scribd.com

Here's a link to a Masonic website attempting to discredit this quote. You can decide who you want to believe.

http://www.masonicworld.com/education/files/jun03/albert_pike_and_lucifer.htm

Review one of my earlier posts to find a link about Theosophy.

Helena Petrovna Blavatsky wrote The Secret Doctrine Vol. I & II and was one of Theosophy's founders.

"We are about to found a magazine of our own, Lucifer. Don’t allow yourself to be frightened: it is not the devil, into which the Catholics have falsified the name of the Morning Star, sacred to all the ancient world, of the ‘bringer of light,’ Phosphoros, as the Romans often called the Mother of God and Christ. And in St. John’s Revelation does it not say, ‘I, Jesus, the morning star’? I wish people would take this to mind, at least. It is possible that the rebellious angel was called Lucifer before his fall, but after his transformation he must not be called so...."

from Lucifer: Reprints of H.P. Blavatsky's London Magazine

Originally Lucifer Trust
http://www.lucistrust.org/

Alice Ann Bailey, a leading disciple of the Russian theosophist Madame Helena Blavatsky, formed the Lucifer Publising Company in 1920. 1922 saw the organization's name changed to Lucis Trust though the advancement of the Luciferian beliefs remained true. Beliefs that in Blavatsky's words: “oppose the materialism of science and every dogmatic theology, especially the Christian, which the Chiefs of the Society regard as particularly pernicious.”

from Lucis Trust, Alice Bailey, World Goodwill and the False Light of the World

Lucis Trust denial
http://www.lucistrust.org/en/arcane_school/talks_and_articles/the_esoteric_meaning_of_lucifer

As for Luciferians posing as Christians, I've been informed by the word of God that this is their modus operandi.

2 Corinthians
13: For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15:Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed asthe ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to theirworks.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Acts chapter 20
28: Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29: For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30: Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31: Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Sometimes they pretend to be atheists sure. The reason you find all this impractical is that you don't believe they are led, dominated, and even possessed by supernatural beings of astronomical intelligence and millenia of experience who are deceptive by their very nature.

John 8:44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

2 Thessalonians chapter 2
9: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10: And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The reason they pose as Christians is because they want to destroy Christianity. The best way to destroy anything is from within.


You really don't see any evidence of sun worship or paganism in the Catholic church? Okay.

 

[ACougar]

I suppose reading the Bible would insult you then.

Romans ch. 1
21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23: And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

1 Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.

And yet the Greeks worshiped an Unknown God which Paul declared to be the God of the Jews. He didn't walk up to tham and say, "All these Gods your worshiping are really infact evil Spirits, Devils, or Demons, thankfully I know the real God and can set you guys straight."

[bible]23For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you. 24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. Acts 17[/bible]

In the Old Testement we also see frequesnt referance to other Gods, not Devils. The Priests if the God of the Jews faces off against other Gods and wins.

[bible]3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exodus 20 [/bible]

So there seems to have been a radical shift in the understanding of other Gods, I can't help but wonder how much of that shift stemed from the desire of a militant Church, determined to conquer the world for Christ.

To the Gnostics, the Demiurge/Devil is connected with the God of the Old Testament. This clearly runs contrary to the teachings of Yahshua/Jesus.

I'd really like to avoid any sort of appologetics for Gnostics, my point was simply that they worshiped Jesus. They seemed bound and determined to make all religous philosophies work together, and in order to make this happen they have to do considerable bending and twisting.

"The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine."

Iteresting words, did she hear him say this? Did he write it down somewhere? It all seems to be a very complex slander against other "Light" teachings. Lucifer is the the God of Light or Dawn, and/or Morning Star, roles normaly associated with Good Gods. Gods who bring enlightenment, understanding, knowledge and wisdom. The name of a thing, even if that thing be a God is nothing compared to what that God represents to the people that worship and honor it.

Albert Pike was a lawyer, Confederate general, and 33rd degree Mason who wrote a book called Morals and Dogma, possibly the most important and influential of all Freemasonic works. There is a temple dedicated to him in Washington D.C.. It is called the House of the Temple and was modeled after the Mausoleum of Mausollos. Pike is also the only Confederate general who has a statue honoring him in D.C..

You've established that this guys was an influencial Mason, however you haven't established that he said what you claim he's said.

Other interesting historical personages worthy of investigation are John Dee, Francis Bacon, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, Manly P. Hall, Aliester Crowley, and Jack Parsons. Benjamin Franklin's alleged connection with England's Hellfire Club is also an intriguing subject.

You can examine the text at scribd.com

I did a word search on Lucifer and Luciferianism on the document, got nothing back.

Here's a link to a Masonic website attempting to discredit this quote. You can decide who you want to believe.

http://www.masonicworld.com/education/files/jun03/albert_pike_and_lucifer.htm

Why do you discredit what they have to say? If one man tells you it's raining and another tells you the sun is shining... doesn't it make sense to step outside and see for yourself? It makes more sense than saying, I hope to take a walk later on today so I'll beleive the guy who tells me the sun is shinning.

Review one of my earlier posts to find a link about Theosophy.

Helena Petrovna Blavatsky wrote The Secret Doctrine Vol. I & II and was one of Theosophy's founders.

If we assume that she was a "Luciferian" or "Gnostic" and held these beliefs, I still don't see what it matters. What power do you think she might have had? My impression is an interesting and complicated woman with a small handfull of followers who came up with a few interested ideas and had a small following.

As for Luciferians posing as Christians, I've been informed by the word of God that this is their modus operandi.

2 Corinthians
13: For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15:Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed asthe ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to theirworks.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Acts chapter 20
28: Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29: For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30: Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31: Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

I think your overlooking the obvious, people who want to use the Church for thier own ends. For worldly power, self glorification and gratification.

Sometimes they pretend to be atheists sure. The reason you find all this impractical is that you don't believe they are led, dominated, and even possessed by supernatural beings of astronomical intelligence and millenia of experience who are deceptive by their very nature.

Strange then that when Jesus said to Love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself, that he didn't bother to mention this great threat. My own opinion is that it's a construct designed to boost peoples ego, make people feel important and distract you from what's really important and much more difficult. (Loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor as yourself.)

The reason they pose as Christians is because they want to destroy Christianity. The best way to destroy anything is from within.

If there were such people they would they not be completly powerless against a community that followed Jesus commandments. (Loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor as yourself.)

You really don't see any evidence of sun worship or paganism in the Catholic church? Okay.

Yes, however it's just window dressing. The core is clearly Christian.

 

[noachian]

Are these videos insinuating that the Royal families of the world are some kind of Nephilim descendants?!?!? I hope not! The British Israelites would not be pleased.

 

[WayWord]

And yet the Greeks worshiped an Unknown God which Paul declared to be the God of the Jews. He didn't walk up to tham and say, "All these Gods your worshiping are really infact evil Spirits, Devils, or Demons, thankfully I know the real God and can set you guys straight."

[bible]23For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Now what you worship as something unknown I am going to proclaim to you. 24"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. Acts 17[/bible]

In the Old Testement we also see frequesnt referance to other Gods, not Devils. The Priests if the God of the Jews faces off against other Gods and wins.

[bible]3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exodus 20 [/bible]

So there seems to have been a radical shift in the understanding of other Gods, I can't help but wonder how much of that shift stemed from the desire of a militant Church, determined to conquer the world for Christ.

First, Paul's philosophical argument with the Greeks certainly did not imply he believed their other gods were true gods.

Second, the idea that pagan gods were not truly gods is present in the Old Testament.

Psalm 96:5 For all the gods of the nations [are] idols: but the LORD made the heavens.

Psalm 97:7 Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.

Isaiah 37:19 And have cast their gods into the fire: for they were no gods, but the work of men's hands, wood and stone: therefore they have destroyed them.

Isaiah 41:23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.

Jeremiah 2:11 Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.

Jeremiah 5:7 How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled themselves by troops in the harlots' houses.

Jeremiah 10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

Jeremiah 16:20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods?

1 Corinithians 8:4-6
4: As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5: For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6: But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Galatians 4:8-9
8: Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9: But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

I'd really like to avoid any sort of appologetics for Gnostics, my point was simply that they worshiped Jesus. They seemed bound and determined to make all religous philosophies work together, and in order to make this happen they have to do considerable bending and twisting.

Alright.

Interesting words, did she hear him say this? Did he write it down somewhere? It all seems to be a very complex slander against other "Light" teachings. Lucifer is the the God of Light or Dawn, and/or Morning Star, roles normaly associated with Good Gods. Gods who bring enlightenment, understanding, knowledge and wisdom. The name of a thing, even if that thing be a God is nothing compared to what that God represents to the people that worship and honor it.

You've established that this guys was an influencial Mason, however you haven't established that he said what you claim he's said.

I did a word search on Lucifer and Luciferianism on the document, got nothing back.

Below is the best info I can find on Pike's letter to Mazzini.

Where can I see a copy of Albert Pike's letter about the planned Three World Wars to Mazzini?
Notes on Pike's Letter to Mazzini

Google books seems to have a better search function.

Morals and Dogma Part 1

Morals and Dogma Part 2

Albert Pike clearly associates Lucifer with the light.

p.320-321
"The Apocalypse, that sublime Kabalistic and prophetic Summary of all the occult figures...

...The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! for traditions are full of Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of one Age nor of one Creed. Plato and Philo, also, were inspired.

The Apocalypse, indeed, is a book as obscure as the Sohar [Zohar]."

Page 741
"Masonry is a search after Light. That search leads us directly back, as
you see, to the Kabalah. In that ancient and little understood medley of bsurdity and philosophy, the Initiate will find the source of many doctrines; and may in time come to understand the Hermetic philosophers, the Alchemists, all the Anti-papal Thinkers of the Middle Ages, and Emanuel Swedenborg."

Page 626
"The Kabalah is the key of the occult sciences; and the Gnostics were born of the Kabalists."

It is often claimed that the worship of Lucifer is not introduced until the 30th or 33rd degrees.

Why do you discredit what they have to say? If one man tells you it's raining and another tells you the sun is shining... doesn't it make sense to step outside and see for yourself? It makes more sense than saying, I hope to take a walk later on today so I'll beleive the guy who tells me the sun is shinning.

The writer himself may be ignorant of the truth of it, depending on his degree.

If we assume that she was a "Luciferian" or "Gnostic" and held these beliefs, I still don't see what it matters. What power do you think she might have had? My impression is an interesting and complicated woman with a small handfull of followers who came up with a few interested ideas and had a small following.

Theosophy is/was the foundation of the New Age movement.

I think your overlooking the obvious, people who want to use the Church for thier own ends. For worldly power, self glorification and gratification.

Of course that occurred. The great majority of Catholics were not closet Luciferians. Most Catholics were sincerely deceived. But that doesn't mean that there wasn't any infiltration. It only takes a few at the top to control a hierarchical structure.

Strange then that when Jesus said to Love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself, that he didn't bother to mention this great threat. My own opinion is that it's a construct designed to boost peoples ego, make people feel important and distract you from what's really important and much more difficult. (Loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor as yourself.)

Huh? He warned against wolves-in-sheep's clothing and false prophets. He received his greatest opposition from organized religion and it was to the Pharisees, priests, and scribes that he delivered his strongest criticisms. At one point he told the Pharisees that they transforming their converts into children of hell.

Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

If there were such people they would they not be completly powerless against a community that followed Jesus commandments. (Loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor as yourself.)

True. Some may have been converted. But the Catholic church did not usually resemble "a community that followed Jesus commandments".

Yes, however it's just window dressing. The core is clearly Christian.

Okay. Have you ever read The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop? I'm not saying he's 100% correct, but he does make some valid points.

 

[WayWord]

Are these videos insinuating that the Royal families of the world are some kind of Nephilim descendants?!?!? I hope not! The British Israelites would not be pleased.

There is definitely a lot of truth to British-Israelism. However, the blue-bloods may be a different animal entirely.

 

[noachian]

There is definitely a lot of truth to British-Israelism. However, the blue-bloods may be a different animal entirely.

"Animal"? What do you mean by this? Is that suppose to be a derogatory term?
I agree there is alot of Geographical accuracy in British-Israelism, awell as migatory evidence of Hebrew tribes Westwards and Jewish dispersion. Even the Old Testement (including Genesis) give indications of Hebrew inhabitation of Western Europe, for instance some areas of the Welsh language is traced back to be of Hebrew origin. Aswell as ancient names of places are clearly given in the Bible where Jewish tribes dispersed to. However, I am not entirly sure that the Western/Northern European Royalty are descended from the Blue Bloods of anceint Hebrew Tribes which inhabited Western Europe, but if many Europeans are decendants of Jewish tribes then the Monarchies of Western Europe (known as Northern Euopre when refering to Monarchies) are most probably High Society of the ancient Hebrew Tribes.

 

[WayWord]

"Animal"? What do you mean by this? Is that suppose to be a derogatory term?
I agree there is alot of Geographical accuracy in British-Israelism, awell as migatory evidence of Hebrew tribes Westwards and Jewish dispersion. Even the Old Testement (including Genesis) give indications of Hebrew inhabitation of Western Europe, for instance some areas of the Welsh language is traced back to be of Hebrew origin. Aswell as ancient names of places are clearly given in the Bible where Jewish tribes dispersed to. However, I am not entirly sure that the Western/Northern European Royalty are descended from the Blue Bloods of anceint Hebrew Tribes which inhabited Western Europe, but if many Europeans are decendants of Jewish tribes then the Monarchies of Western Europe (known as Northern Euopre when refering to Monarchies) are most probably High Society of the ancient Hebrew Tribes.

Derogatory term? I don't know. It's just the first expression that popped into my head.

Not necessarily. Herod, the King of Judea during the time of Yahshua/Jesus was half-Edomite. Edomites, of course, are possibly the worst enemies of the Israelites. Who is the only person in the entire Bible for whomGod expresses hatred? Esau, father of the nation of Edom. Search Edom Jews, Edomite Jews.

 

[Thirst_For_Knowledge]

But back to the topic, when Did the idea of a new world order start among the masses?

When Hogan joined Hall and Nash?

 

[ACougar]

First, Paul's philosophical argument with the Greeks certainly did not imply he believed their other gods were true gods.

Second, the idea that pagan gods were not truly gods is present in the Old Testament.

Psalm 96:5 For all the gods of the nations [are] idols: but the LORD made the heavens.

Psalm 97:7 Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.

Isaiah 37:19 And have cast their gods into the fire: for they were no gods, but the work of men's hands, wood and stone: therefore they have destroyed them.

Isaiah 41:23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.

Jeremiah 2:11 Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.

Jeremiah 5:7 How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have forsaken me, and sworn by them that are no gods: when I had fed them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled themselves by troops in the harlots' houses.

Jeremiah 10:11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

Jeremiah 16:20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods?

1 Corinithians 8:4-6
4: As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5: For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6: But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Galatians 4:8-9
8: Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9: But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

I believe the original point was that the Gods, are not your fallen angels... and you've done that nicely.

Below is the best info I can find on Pike's letter to Mazzini.

Where can I see a copy of Albert Pike's letter about the planned Three World Wars to Mazzini?
Notes on Pike's Letter to Mazzini

We can not prove that this letter exists, not that the letter never existed... therefor it falls into the same catagory as dragons, unicorns and honest politicians.

Google books seems to have a better search function.

Morals and Dogma Part 1

Morals and Dogma Part 2

Albert Pike clearly associates Lucifer with the light.

p.320-321
"The Apocalypse, that sublime Kabalistic and prophetic Summary of all the occult figures...

Not sure how this relates to Lucifer and the light.

...The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! for traditions are full of Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of one Age nor of one Creed. Plato and Philo, also, were inspired.

By apocalyose here, he talking about the lifting of the veil, access to secret wisdom. The diefication of that sublime faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. Doesn't sound like he's a fan of Lucifer at this point. Lucifer uses his light to blind feeble, sensual and selfish souls.

The Apocalypse, indeed, is a book as obscure as the Sohar [Zohar]."

The Zohar isn't really that obscure, I have a copy somewhere and anyone can pick up a copy at Amazon.com. I'm not familier with any book titled The Apocalypse unless he's refering to Revelations.

Page 741
"Masonry is a search after Light. That search leads us directly back, as
you see, to the Kabalah. In that ancient and little understood medley of bsurdity and philosophy, the Initiate will find the source of many doctrines; and may in time come to understand the Hermetic philosophers, the Alchemists, all the Anti-papal Thinkers of the Middle Ages, and Emanuel Swedenborg."

Not sure what flavor of Kabalah he's refering too, traditional Jewish, Hermetic or some other flavor... while your Gnostics may have held some belief in Kabala it's a many branched mystery tradition that goes way back and has probably touched on, ben influenced by and influenced many traditions.

He does seem to be anti-Catholic, just as the Catholic Church is and was Anti-Masonic.

Page 626
"The Kabalah is the key of the occult sciences; and the Gnostics were born of the Kabalists."

He's wrong of course, the Kabala may be a key to some occult sciences however there are many keys and many sciences. They may have derived some of thier cosmology from Kabalistic thinking, however what they were trying to do (it seems) was mesh the ancient mystery traditions of the Greeks and Egyptions with the pattern and process of creation they had discovered by studying Kabala. You might enjoy reading the critisisms by Saint Irenaeus of the Gnostics (Against Herasies) written around 200AD.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103.htm

It is often claimed that the worship of Lucifer is not introduced until the 30th or 33rd degrees.

Based on what? It's been claimed (Check out David Icke and his website) that the worlds elite is actually a seperate reptilian race...

http://www.davidicke.com/index.php/

The writer himself may be ignorant of the truth of it, depending on his degree.

The fact that it's not impossible doesn't make it probable.

Theosophy is/was the foundation of the New Age movement.

Foundations of the New Age Movement are Buddhism, Taoism, Sufism, Hinduism, Shamanism, Esoteric Christianity even Gnostisism. Theosophy shares some of the same thought, however it heads off in a differnat direction from the new age movement, a group of hundreds at most alongside a movement of millions.

Of course that occurred. The great majority of Catholics were not closet Luciferians. Most Catholics were sincerely deceived. But that doesn't mean that there wasn't any infiltration. It only takes a few at the top to control a hierarchical structure.

We have no reason to believe thier Luciferian though...

Huh? He warned against wolves-in-sheep's clothing and false prophets. He received his greatest opposition from organized religion and it was to the Pharisees, priests, and scribes that he delivered his strongest criticisms. At one point he told the Pharisees that they transforming their converts into children of hell.

To be sure, there were many who attempted to lead Christianity in directions differant from the one it traveled, you had Gnostics, Arians, ect...

True. Some may have been converted. But the Catholic church did not usually resemble "a community that followed Jesus commandments".

That's really a difficult determination to make, it's important to realize that the hostory we know is only a small percentage. Even though a few hundred years ago the institution would have burned me at the stake for herasy, I have a hard time seeing it bad or evil. Corrupted by human understanding and secular power, sure. Protestanst over thier relatively short history haven't some a whole lot better.

Okay. Have you ever read The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop? I'm not saying he's 100% correct, but he does make some valid points.

No, although I grew up reading lot's of anti-Catholic literature, it makes a lot more sense to talk with Catholics about what they believe and why... heck, CF is probably a good place to get such a conversation going.

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