Need some opinions on the "Unpardonable Sin".

[Avid]

Of course not, Peter did not die in his sins, he came to the knowledge of Christ...

This hits the nail on the head. Jesus spoke extensively about people dying in their sins. This is NOT what he was talking about in Matt.12.

 

[corinth77777]

The Holy Spirit is declaring Christ to us. He reveals the Lord to the Lost. He convicts a sinner of unrighteousness. The Holy Spirit GLORIFIES CHRIST!

Jn 16:14-15 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things theat the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.

Jn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.

Jn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the
Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.

The Holy Spirit was glorifying Christ in Mat 12, He was Testifying Christ was the Son of God by miricles. The actions of the Pharisees denied both, Christ’s glory and Christ divinity.

The Pharisees were denying Christ!

Now I do understand that the Holy Spirit does much more than this. He empowers us, regenerates us, teaches us, sanctifies us, fills us, leads us, produces fruit in us, yet none of that happens without coming to the knowledge of Christ.

There is a point, in a man’s life where he is given over to his sin. Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; What knowledge are they rejecting…Jesus! Gen 6:3 My Spirit will not always strive with man… We do know that God’s Spirit has been with man throughout the ages, Moses, Elijah, Elisha, David, John the Baptist and now the church. After the resurrection, His Spirit was poured out Acts 2:7. No one knows, how many times the Holy Spirit will declare Christ to a man. There is a point where a man completely rejects Christ. My Spirit will not always strive with man….he is given over to a reprobate mind.

The Pharisees were doing the exact opposite of this…1 Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.

Don’t just read the words of Mat 12, read the actions as well. The Holy Spirit was testifying, Glorifying Christ in Mat 12. In Mat 12:23, just before the Pharisees spoke, the people were coming to the truth. Is this the Son of David, (is this the Christ)! The Pharisees were reacting to the crowd….

The Pharisees were denying Christ!

In Christ
Daniel

Than you Dan for those great references. Well needed in this post

 

[corinth77777]

Ok maybe I see someones question...Did the pharasees blaspheme the unpardenable blaspheme in Matthew 12...I never read it as they had but now reread it again.

 

[corinth77777]

PETER DID NOT DENY HIM IN THE HEART...AS TO REJECTING SALVATION FROM HIM BECAUSE HE WOULD Not HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN..SMILE...But to save his life..he denied any association I bet because he didnt want to die.....

 

[Avid]

PETER DID NOT DENY HIM IN THE HEART...AS TO REJECTING SALVATION FROM HIM BECAUSE HE WOULD Not HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN..SMILE...But to save his life..he denied any association I bet because he didnt want to die.....

The Pharisees didn't want to lose their position of power and authority. They had a motive... If you are faced with "recant or die," what will you say?

The fact Peter knew who Jesus was COMPOUNDED the issue; it did not MITIGATE it...

Matthew 10
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.


​

 

[Avid]

Just a reminder of the passage of scripture that deals directly with the question in the OP:

Matthew 12
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
​

One member here said he did something like this in his heart. Are you willing to attribute this level of sin to that CF member?

Also, how is anything, but SPEAKING, at issue here? Can you show scripture that says this sin is something done in the heart?

 

[Dan61861]

Just a reminder of the passage of scripture that deals directly with the question in the OP:

Matthew 12
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
​

One member here said he did something like this in his heart. Are you willing to attribute this level of sin to that CF member?

Also, how is anything, but SPEAKING, at issue here? Can you show scripture that says this sin is something done in the heart?

My friend, I answered your questions...you are avoiding mine.

As for the OP, I believe I am showing that there is no way he did sin this sin, if he has come to the knowledge of Christ.


In Christ
Daniel

 

[Avid]

My friend, I answered your questions...you are avoiding mine.

Did not see a question mark in your recent post. Not avoiding questions.

As for the OP, I believe I am showing that there is no way he did sin this sin, if he has come to the knowledge of Christ.

What is your evidence that, "he has come to the knowledge of Christ?"

Will get ready to go to a regular Church meeting in a minute...

 

[Avid]

My friend, I answered your questions...

Was speaking to Corinth with that post... Not intending to slight someone, and answered a point of yours 6 posts before your comment.

Some people here, however, have been elevated to my "Digital Ignore" status.

 

[corinth77777]

The Pharisees didn't want to lose their position of power and authority. They had a motive... If you are faced with "recant or die," what will you say?

The fact Peter knew who Jesus was COMPOUNDED the issue; it did not MITIGATE it...

Matthew 10
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.


​

if one thing I know is scripture do not contradict themselves.....As for denying him...If a man has
God's spirit...can then God deny himself? NO

ANOTHER THOUGHT TO LOOK AT IS...HAD Peter been baptized into Christ if Christ had yet gone to the grave. Did Peter anytime after being prompted by the spirit reject the gospel message from the heart? DID PETER LIE TO THE HOLY SPIRIT..AT ANYTIME...? And SAY to the holy spirit I reject Jesus?

Now as for the scripture..whoever shall deny him...question deny him how? After receiving his spirit...or before receiving his spirit....?...Good stuff to research. The deciple would preach sermons..and you accepted or rejected it.

 

[corinth77777]

Just a reminder of the passage of scripture that deals directly with the question in the OP:

Matthew 12
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
​

One member here said he did something like this in his heart. Are you willing to attribute this level of sin to that CF member?

Also, how is anything, but SPEAKING, at issue here? Can you show scripture that says this sin is something done in the heart?

...I believe the unparden sin is rejecting Christ to the point of a hard heart where you cant hear any more..all the way to his death....so if he is alive and he is a believer..how can I see him doing that. HOW CAN YOU TRULY SPEAK AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT IF YOU POSSESS IT. A HOUSE DIVIDED CANT STAND. HOWEVER IF YOU rEJECT CHRIST even unto your death..then and only then can a matter be judged at least as far as we see. But God knows already. Today..if you hear his voice do not harden your heart. In Corinthians it says no one speaking by the Spirit can say Jesus is accursed...so the question is what is blaspheme.written as? A continual act? Look it up later...when I get back

 

[BrokenWarrior]

Hello all, though I haven't posted in a while I've still followed this thread. A lot of good info has been shown here and I'd like to post to clarify.

The Unpardonable Sin is knowing Jesus for who He really is,but choosing to reject Him to the point of Blaspheming The Holy Spirit. So,in hindsight,they are rejecting Christ,but the sin that they commit that is Unpardonable is not the rejection,but the blasphemy of insulting/speaking evil of The Holy Spirit.

Am I right guys?

That seems to keep with Scripture.

If I'm wrong,please feel free to correct me. It will be a grim day when I start refusing to learn about my God and His teachings

God be with you all!
-The Current Lowest Servant

 

[Avid]

Hello all, though I haven't posted in a while I've still followed this thread. A lot of good info has been shown here and I'd like to post to clarify.

The Unpardonable Sin is knowing Jesus for who He really is,but choosing to reject Him to the point of Blaspheming The Holy Spirit. So,in hindsight,they are rejecting Christ,but the sin that they commit that is Unpardonable is not the rejection,but the blasphemy of insulting/speaking evil of The Holy Spirit.

Am I right guys?

That seems to keep with Scripture.

If I'm wrong,please feel free to correct me. It will be a grim day when I start refusing to learn about my God and His teachings

God be with you all!
-The Current Lowest Servant

Very good understanding. it seems you know what the scriptures are saying enough to sort through what all types of opinions included.

Question to qualify that, though...

If you (or anyone) had said such things, knowing the truth of it, but saying those things anyway, do you think they would find forgiveness if they up and said, "I repent. I was wrong. I'm sorry!!!" or do you think their fate is sealed?

 

[BrokenWarrior]

Hmm,tuff to say.

If they really meant it when they Blasphemed,I don't think they would.

Of course, a real Believer couldn't do that anyway since he/she already has the Holy Spirit in em right?

I'm pretty sure The Holy Spirit wouldn't even allow a Believer to say and mean that blasphemy to begin with.

So it would come down to the person already being saved or not right? A person who isn't would be condemned but a truly saved one wouldn't right?

Edit: I've only been saved a year or so,so I'm still learning. Do I seem to be around the mark?

 

[Avid]

... I'm pretty sure The Holy Spirit wouldn't even allow a Believer to say and mean that blasphemy to begin with...

Have you noticed how almost EVERY reply to this subject falls back on the SAME, ONE THING?

It is not allowed on this site to state someone who claims to be a Christian is not. It is not considered acceptable in just about every Church I have attended in my life. SO how is there any validity in falling back on whether a person CLAIMS that status or not? It is one of the most falsified things I have heard in this world.

It must be stated that no one here actually knows any of the rest of us (including me - either way.) Even with my wife of multiple decades, I must recognize it is GOD's business to make her into a child of His, give her assurance of salvation by His grace, keep her by His power, and take her to be with Him for eternity. I cannot convince her, convict her, covert her, or grant assurance, confidence, nor the grace to live and die for Christ.

That being said, we really only have the words of our LORD on this subject. We need to look to the LORD for wisdom and understanding. Jesus Christ said what this sin was, how it was committed, and what was the condemnation.

All the talk of what happens after that is committed, and when they die, is all conjecture that is outside of what the LORD proclaimed. A hundred "What if's" have been added by men when our LORD had none in the pronouncement of this judgment:

Matthew 12
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mark 3
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
​

Of course, in qualifying the judgment and categorizing the sin and blasphemy, to distinguish it from other things, there are "if's."

According to our LORD Jesus Christ, none of these "IF" statements are applicable in His judgment against any such a person who would do such a thing. It is a final decree while the sinner is standing right there - still alive, still breathing God's air, etc.

Would anyone consider it wise to trust the proclamation of salvation by a person who could say this manner of thing? Anyone talking to someone about the LORD that encounters a person making statements like that should be wary of ANYTHING else that person said.

"What if the person didn't mean it, and really did seek the LORD for forgiveness, would that mean they would be saved?" "What If?" "What If?" "What If?" If someone ever did get through this as has been suggested, this would be the most humble person you ever met. They would be completely different than anyone you ever went to Church with!!!

If there were some person you knew at Church, who had such a recovery from such a depth, there would not be anyone like him anywhere, and we would have read pages about him in this thread, but we haven't...

 

[Bluelion]

..Yes..sounds right to me..which adds to my point that one must be born again by faith in Jesus in order to recieve forgivess of sins after he is born...consider how God saves us by the washing and regenation of his spirit. We recieve the promting of his spirit by the power of the gospel and for many before us by miracles too..but if one rejects the prompting than he is not born again. IT IS ONLY AFTER HE IS BORN THAT HE haS ACCESS UNTO GOING DIRECTLY TO GOD FOR FORGIVESSNESS ON BEHALF OF Jesus who must be acknowledged. Because everything is made by him for him and through him. So in the same light I repeat you actually gave a good scripture as an example. If ya give up your birth right how will you receive the blessings that come through it. LIKEN TO IF YOU BLASPHEME THE HOLYSPIRIT..REJECTing Jesus..than how shall you be forgiven for your sins.

Just want to make sure we are in agreement that no person saved can do this. They can see what their birth right will be and reject it as you pointed out with Esau but once a person has it they can not reject it. Meaning the saved person cannot be lost as per John 6.

 

[Bluelion]

The reason is because I could be little or no help to you if I know nothing about how all that happened to you.

The truth is that people sitting in Church listening to good sermons are not likely to have the things you mentioned come upon them, unless they are secretly doing something else. They may be playing games with bad things on the side. That is the very least of what I mean.

There are people who never get anywhere near things of God's word in their life. They are steeped in bad things all their lives, and these thing do not let go of them so easily. Also, the people do not like letting go of these things, because there seems to be something they like about it.

Next thing, the person is in a place they cannot seem to recover from, and the doctors are at a loss to help. Actually, the subject of these troubles seems to be a little off the topic here. That you have any concern for the things of God is a good sign that there was not an actual committing of the Unpardonable Sin.

The idea of what you were worried about, for you or the other people, may be very complicated, and an expert who deals with that may be better at sorting out these things. It seems that there are MANY things you are reading that are not the Bible, and it seems that reading something specific to what your need is would not be such a chore as it seemed when you began reading the books I suggested. That needs to be handled as well.

This is a little of what needs to be said, and only a small part of any of it has to do with the Unpardonable Sin. The thought that you are sure you know what that is should include you know (better than anyone on Earth) whether you did that kind of thing (manner of sin and blasphemy.)

My life was not meant to be sealed, but maybe others can learn from it. I am, after all, a public servant and slave of God. Lets keep it public and I will be very open, but I do suggest we create a new thread maybe called discussions.

Would you like to create it or me?

I stick with the Bible these days but before I was into many magical books. I was trying to open the door to Heaven and walk in. I didn't want to kill my self but wanted to Go straight to Heaven. I no longer wanted to be on earth.

but lets start I'll start the thread called discussion and you can ask your question and maybe we can help someone.

I think the fact I love God with a passion and always have, shows I have not committed the unforgivable sin.

 

[BrokenWarrior]

So I would be correct in saying that a true Believer can't say that right?

Because since that's unforgivable,one is condemned when he/she commits it,and since Christ says He won't lose any of us,one who commits it was never saved to begin with if he/she commits said sin.

Right?

 

[Avid]

So I would be correct in saying that a true Believer can't say that right?

Because since that's unforgivable,one is condemned when he/she commits it,and since Christ says He won't lose any of us,one who commits it was never saved to begin with if he/she commits said sin.

Right?

Once again, this defaults to the same, one response to almost every spiritual issue. If the person is saved..., if the person repents afterward..., If he didn't really mean it, or If he only said it in his heart, and he later repents, and is saved..., EVERY RESPONSE.

Jesus was plain that the person who says such a thing CAN NEVER FIND FORGIVENESS.

 

[BrokenWarrior]

Once again, this defaults to the same, one response to almost every spiritual issue. If the person is saved..., if the person repents afterward..., If he didn't really mean it, or If he only said it in his heart, and he later repents, and is saved..., EVERY RESPONSE.

Jesus was plain that the person who says such a thing CAN NEVER FIND FORGIVENESS.

Correct,I think we're on the same page.

Just wanted some clarification

God bless!
-The Current Lowest Servant