Need a Book Title

[Bible Highlighter]

Christians can sin and still be saved, otherwise we'd all be lost. The way I put it is if Jesus isn't your Lord then he isn't your savior—"Lord" meaning one who has the right to tell you what to do and not do.

Not that the original question was intended to solicit ideas for the content, but I will mention that what the goal of the book means to me is that it includes the passages on how the Law revealed God's nature, and a part of it was the allowance for someone to be our Kinsman-Reedmer from the slavery of sin—what the requirements were for that and how Jesus fulfilled them. That's probably the most overlooked facet of the mechanics of salvation that I'm aware of. I explained the basics in another post in these forums: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-did-jesus-have-to-die.7476746/#post-69404777

No. A Christian cannot abide in unrepentant sin with the thinking they are saved (Whether it be a lot of sin or even just one sin). it doesn't work like that. Such thinking would be condoning evil or justifying a doctrine of immorality.

Revelation 21:8 says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Which is the Second Death).
John makes no mention of how there is another group of individuals who can be liars who will not face the Second Death.
Jesus says if anyone looks upon a woman in lust their whole body could be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30).
Jesus makes no mention of how there are a group of people whereby this warning does not apply.
Jesus also says if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15).
Again, Jesus makes no mention that there is an exception to the rule on this point.
Paul essentially says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6).
Paul says that there are individuals who can deny God by their works (Titus 1:16).

Sure, can a Christian honestly struggle with sin and receive forgiveness? Yes, most definitely. The Parable of the Tax Collector shows us this (Luke 18:9-14). But such an individual is not seeking to remain in their sin with thinking they are saved (Striving to hold onto their sin in this life like a comfortable blanket instead of serving God in truth and righteousness). Jesus says you cannot serve two masters for you will hate the one and love the other. In fact, Jesus believes it is possible for a person to stop sinning because he told two people to "sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11). In fact, Jesus said to the man who he healed that a worse thing would come upon him if he did sin again. If you believe it is impossible to sin no more, then Jesus would have been playing a cruel joke on this man healed. 1 Peter 4:1 says he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased (stopped) from sin. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. David says that he hid His Word (God's Word) within his heart so that he may sin against the Lord (Psalms 119:11).


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[Bible Highlighter]

I think I like what you gave as a for instance for the subtitle.

The Biblical Dynamics of Christian Salvation: Salvation in a Nutshell

I am glad I was able to help.

That has a nice combination of serious and technical, mixed with something whimsical. Many thanks for that.

As for the rest, I do appreciate you doing your Christian duty by me in expressing concern about the content. Not to worry. It is one hundred percent Biblical in content. Everything is used contextually. It is essentially a collection of known points of doctrine, put together in a way that brings to light the hows and whys of their collective understanding. It is not, in any way, a book on why it's okay to sin. In fact, it speaks against it. It does speak to the sanctification process, as well as justification, though these topics are not addressed as individual chapters, but as integral parts of a parent topic.

For me, stressing the importance of the necessity of Sanctification and holiness for the believer should be a major focus or thrust for your book. I say this because most today believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine on some level (Which is usually tied to Once Saved Always Saved or Eternal Security). For if one believes in these doctrines, such a person's effort in this life is meaningless and futile. A person can live however they like or they can generally live a holy life and choose one particular sin and think they are saved. But it doesn't work like that (See my verses in my recent post above).


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[AFrazier]

I am glad I was able to help.



For me, stressing the importance of the necessity of Sanctification and holiness for the believer should be a major focus or thrust for your book. I say this because most today believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine on some level (Which is usually tied to Once Saved Always Saved or Eternal Security). For if one believes in these doctrines, such a person's effort in this life is meaningless and futile. A person can live however they like or they can generally live a holy life and choose one particular sin and think they are saved. But it doesn't work like that (See my verses in my recent post above).


...

Again ... not a book on why sin is okay, once or habitually. Sin is not okay.

Eternal security is a precarious topic. It is embraced by those who think a sinless lifestyle is impossible, and rejected by those who are not entirely realistic about the human disposition. The truth to it lies somewhere in the middle. Despite mistakes, salvation would never be yanked out from under us, but scripture is clear that it is something that can be lost under the right circumstances of disobedience, or walked away from, even by those who had the knowledge of the truth. But this is a topic for another thread.

Sanctification is a two part deal. Scripture relates it as both a thing that has been done to us, and a thing that we should pursue. We are cleaned and readied for service in holy matters by Christ (we are sanctified), but as individuals, it is our responsibility to continue perfecting ourselves for continued service in holy matters. Sanctify simply means to purify for use in holy service, just as the cup is purified. And we are instructed to purify ourselves.

However, this speaks to Christian living, not the institution of salvation and why it works. The final chapter of the book will deal with, "What Next?," and in the context of the question, sanctification will be given its due attention. But it's ancillary to the central idea of Christian living. If we live as Christians ought to live, sanctification will be part of the consequential result. Thus, sanctification and justification are concepts that are subordinate to a greater parent thought.

Now, not to mistakenly give you the impression that your comments on this stuff are unwanted or unappreciated, because neither is the case, I was just looking for a little creative input so I could come up with a quality title. These doctrinal posts, which I am plenty tempted to engage in, are, unfortunately, off-topic. Rest assured, I'm well educated on the subject.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Again ... not a book on why sin is okay, once or habitually. Sin is not okay.

Eternal security is a precarious topic. It is embraced by those who think a sinless lifestyle is impossible, and rejected by those who are not entirely realistic about the human disposition. The truth to it lies somewhere in the middle. Despite mistakes, salvation would never be yanked out from under us, but scripture is clear that it is something that can be lost under the right circumstances of disobedience, or walked away from, even by those who had the knowledge of the truth. But this is a topic for another thread.

Sanctification is a two part deal. Scripture relates it as both a thing that has been done to us, and a thing that we should pursue. We are cleaned and readied for service in holy matters by Christ (we are sanctified), but as individuals, it is our responsibility to continue perfecting ourselves for continued service in holy matters. Sanctify simply means to purify for use in holy service, just as the cup is purified. And we are instructed to purify ourselves.

However, this speaks to Christian living, not the institution of salvation and why it works. The final chapter of the book will deal with, "What Next?," and in the context of the question, sanctification will be given its due attention. But it's ancillary to the central idea of Christian living. If we live as Christians ought to live, sanctification will be part of the consequential result. Thus, sanctification and justification are concepts that are subordinate to a greater parent thought.

Now, not to mistakenly give you the impression that your comments on this stuff are unwanted or unappreciated, because neither is the case, but I was just looking for a little creativity so I could come up with a quality title. These doctrinal posts, which I am plenty tempted to engage in, are, unfortunately, off-topic. Rest assured, I'm well educated on the subject.

First, I agree that Sanctification is a two part thing. For Sanctification is indeed something that is done to us and Sanctification is also something we should pursue.

Second, while I am comforted that you are saying that this book is not a book on justifying how a believer can sin and still be saved, I am still concerned that you do not see the danger or darkness of Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved (Which I believe ignores sin on some level). For when a person knows that there are no dire consequences of their sin (in the afterlife), they are going to naturally do the wrong thing or they are not going to treat sin as seriously. In other words, if a person knows that their future sin is forgiven, there is no need to be overly concerned in living righteously or worrying too much about sin. It's either sin can separate you between God and man (Like with Adam and Eve and many others) or sin cannot separate you from God after being a believer. I see no middle ground taught within the Scriptures. One path leads to sin and the other to holiness. While believers can struggle with sin (with a remedy for those who are pure in heart to put their sin behind them), there is no teaching within the Scriptures that tells us that it is hard to lose your salvation. Remember, it only took one sin for Adam and Eve to fall out of fellowship with God. For Jesus gives warnings to the luke warm believer and it is not a favorable warning for them.

Verses you should consider meditating on in regards to Soteriology for your book are:

#1. Philippians 2:12
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."

#2. 2 Peter 1:5-10
5 "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"

#3. Luke 13:23-24
23 "Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able"

#4. 1 Peter 2:11
"Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;"

#5. Hebrews 4:11
"Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief"

#6. Hebrews 5:9
"And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him"

#7. Galatians 6:7-9
7 "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."

#8. Isaiah 66:2
"For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word."

#9. Hebrews 4:1
"Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it"

#10. Proverbs 13:4 ESV
"The soul of the sluggard craves and gets nothing, while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied."

#11. Matthew 10:28 BLB
"And you should not be afraid of those killing the body but not being able to kill the soul. Indeed rather you should fear the One being able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."

#12. Romans 11:22
"Behold therefore the kindness and severity of God: severity indeed upon those having fallen, but kindness of God toward you, if you continue in the kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off"

#13. Hebrews 10:26
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins."

#14. Hebrews 10:28-29
28 "He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

#15. Hebrews 10:38
"Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."

#16. 2 Corinthians 13:5
"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

#17. 1 John 1:7
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

#18. 1 John 2:3-6
3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

#19. John 3:19-21
19 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."

#20. John 14:15
"If ye love me, keep my commandments"

#21. 1 John 3:7-8
7 "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."

#22. 1 John 2:29
"...ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him."

#23. 1 John 3:10
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

#24. 1 John 3:15
"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

#25. Matthew 6:15
"But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses"

#26. Matthew 5:28-30
28 "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

#27. Revelation 21:8
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Side Note:

As for discussing a proper understanding of Soteriology, this is an important discussion to have if one desires to have a correct title for a book that is focused on a proper teaching of Salvation. So I do not see it as being off topic. The title should reflect a correct understanding of Salvation as taught within the Scriptures. If one does not have a correct understanding on the Salvation within the Scriptures, then the Title for their book will be misleading as to what the Scriptures really say.


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[AFrazier]

Second, while I am comforted that you are saying that this book is not a book on justifying how a believer can sin and still be saved, I am still concerned that you do not see the danger or darkness of Eternal Security or Once Saved Always Saved (Which I believe ignores sin on some level). For when a person knows that there are no dire consequences of their sin (in the afterlife), they are going to naturally do the wrong thing or they are not going to treat sin as seriously. In other words, if a person knows that their future sin is forgiven, there is no need to be overly concerned in living righteously or worrying too much about sin. It's either sin can separate you between God and man (Like with Adam and Eve and many others) or sin cannot separate you from God after being a believer. I see no middle ground taught within the Scriptures. One path leads to sin and the other to holiness. While believers can struggle with sin (with a remedy for those who are pure in heart to put their sin behind them), there is no teaching within the Scriptures that tells us that it is hard to lose your salvation. Remember, it only took one sin for Adam and Eve to fall out of fellowship with God. For Jesus gives warnings to the luke warm believer and it is not a favorable warning for them.

This is all addressed in two simple verses.

1 John 2:1-2 — My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 3:6-9 — Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

There are three things to be seen from these two passages. 1) That we shouldn't sin. 2) That sin is not the inherent nature of the Christian. 3) If we do happen to fail, we have an advocate.

I appreciate your zealousness in ensuring that I don't write a book that promotes sinful behavior. However, let me say again that that is not what the book is about. It is about how and why salvation works, not how we should behave once we have it. While that subject is discussed as a matter of necessity in the final chapter, the point of the work is to explain why Jesus had to die to make salvation possible. It discusses the interdependence of the old and new covenants. It shows what the new covenant actually is, and its specific relevance to the salvation process. It explains why God couldn't simply say, "I forgive you," and let that be the end of it, but had to send Jesus to die on the cross. It is not, in any way, a book on "once saved always saved."

Clearly your comments above represent your latest fire as it concerns your studies. This is evident enough in the fact that you are pressing a point that isn't being argued or challenged, and that wasn't even brought up. I went through the phase of your current topic years ago. While you are a little hard-line in some of what you have to say, you are not far from the truth of it. It's obvious to me that you still lack a few fundamentals, but that will come in time.

I spent the last twelve years trying to find a way to articulate the thoughts this book represents. They are carefully considered, Biblically accurate and thorough, guided by prayer, and offered up periodically for comment and criticism to men of reputation; this includes long-time Christians with a strong history of competent study, pastors, and even seminary professors. While I understand that you feel the need to guide my efforts in adhering to your current level of understanding, I promise you that what I'm writing goes so far beyond what you've had to say here that I doubt most of it has even occurred to you. I've seen the light bulb turn on behind many eyes after hearing the way I've put this together. God has done a sufficient job in giving me utterance.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is all addressed in two simple verses.

1 John 2:1-2 — My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 3:6-9 — Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

There are three things to be seen from these two passages. 1) That we shouldn't sin. 2) That sin is not the inherent nature of the Christian. 3) If we do happen to fail, we have an advocate.

First, the above passages do not say we shouldn't sin. John says we are to "sin not." In other words, there is a difference between me telling you to not to touch a hot stove versus me saying that you shouldn't touch a hot stove. Nowhere does John use the word "should." In fact, Jesus says to two people to "Sin no more." If your view of "should not sin" was in view of how Jesus thought, then Jesus would not have told the man he healed that a worse thing was going to come upon him if he did sin again (John 5:14). Jesus would have said for this man to simply confess of his sin every time he did sin again. But this is not what Jesus said to the man.

Forsaking sin is in line with confessing sin as a part of repentance (Compare 1 John 1:9 with 1 John 1:7; cf. Proverbs 28:13; Also compare Matthew 12:41 with John 3:6-10).

Second, nowhere do the above passages teach that sin is the inherent nature of the Christian, either. On the contrary, 1 Peter 4:1 says he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased (stopped) from sin. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Jesus says he that sins is a slave to sin (John 8:34). Paul says sin shall not have dominion over you (Romans 6:14). In verse 16, Paul says we are servants or slave to whom we obey - whether it be sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness (or holiness). James 1:12 says, "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." Now, it doesn't make a lick of sense that the person who never endures temptation will also receive a crown of life, too. James says that the one who endures temptation is the one who loves Him. This makes sense because Jesus says if you love me, keep my Commandments (John 14:15).


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[AFrazier]

First, the above passages do not say we shouldn't sin. John says we are to "sin not." In other words, there is a difference between me telling you to not to touch a hot stove versus me saying that you shouldn't touch a hot stove. Nowhere does John use the word "should." In fact, Jesus says to two people to "Sin no more." If your view of "should not sin" was in view of how Jesus thought, then Jesus would not have told the man he healed that a worse thing was going to come upon him if he did sin again (John 5:14). Jesus would have said for this man to simply confess of his sin every time he did sin again. But this is not what Jesus said to the man.

Forsaking sin is in line with confessing sin as a part of repentance (Compare 1 John 1:9 with 1 John 1:7; cf. Proverbs 28:13; Also compare Matthew 12:41 with John 3:6-10).

Second, nowhere do the above passages teach that sin is the inherent nature of the Christian, either. On the contrary, 1 Peter 4:1 says he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased (stopped) from sin. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. Jesus says he that sins is a slave to sin (John 8:34). Paul says sin shall not have dominion over you (Romans 6:14). In verse 16, Paul says we are servants or slave to whom we obey - whether it be sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness (or holiness). James 1:12 says, "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." Now, it doesn't make a lick of sense that the person who never endures temptation will also receive a crown of life, too. James says that the one who endures temptation is the one who loves Him. This makes sense because Jesus says if you love me, keep my Commandments (John 14:15).


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Brother, you're picking apart what I said to find an argument that isn't there.

If we are told not to sin, then we shouldn't sin. If jumping off a tall building will kill you, and the sign says don't jump, then you shouldn't do it.

And I didn't say that sin was the inherent nature of the Christian. I said that sin was not the inherent nature of a Christian.

So please, stop trying to instruct me. You are arguing against the particulars of the book's content without knowing what that content is. You only know the subject matter and the questions it endeavors to answer. And even when I tell you that your concerns should be put to rest, you persist in trying to instruct me on points of scripture that I am quite familiar with, and that I have not objected to.

So let me tell you one more time ... I am not writing a book that teaches the blanket concept of once saved always saved, thereby promoting, intentionally or otherwise, the idea of a license to sin. I am not writing a book that endorses willful sin. I am not writing a book that teaches against the concept of striving for perfection and sanctification. This is a book on what salvation is, how it works, why it works, and what practical effect it has on us. If there are points you feel should receive more focus than others, you are welcome to write a book of your own. But my book is written according to the points I feel are appropriate, in the order that I find them to be appropriate, to express the conclusions that I feel are appropriate. I do not feel called by you to write this book. I feel called by God to write this book. I did not pray to you for guidance and motivation. I prayed to God for those things. I did not read your infallible word, but God's infallible word.

I am quite comfortably confident that God is perfectly capable of putting the words on paper that need to be written.

 

[LaSorcia]

How about these:

Saved!

Gracefully Saved

Graced With Salvation

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Brother, you're picking apart what I said to find an argument that isn't there.

If we are told not to sin, then we shouldn't sin. If jumping off a tall building will kill you, and the sign says don't jump, then you shouldn't do it.

And I didn't say that sin was the inherent nature of the Christian. I said that sin was not the inherent nature of a Christian.

So please, stop trying to instruct me. You are arguing against the particulars of the book's content without knowing what that content is. You only know the subject matter and the questions it endeavors to answer. And even when I tell you that your concerns should be put to rest, you persist in trying to instruct me on points of scripture that I am quite familiar with, and that I have not objected to.

So let me tell you one more time ... I am not writing a book that teaches the blanket concept of once saved always saved, thereby promoting, intentionally or otherwise, the idea of a license to sin. I am not writing a book that endorses willful sin. I am not writing a book that teaches against the concept of striving for perfection and sanctification. This is a book on what salvation is, how it works, why it works, and what practical effect it has on us. If there are points you feel should receive more focus than others, you are welcome to write a book of your own. But my book is written according to the points I feel are appropriate, in the order that I find them to be appropriate, to express the conclusions that I feel are appropriate. I do not feel called by you to write this book. I feel called by God to write this book. I did not pray to you for guidance and motivation. I prayed to God for those things. I did not read your infallible word, but God's infallible word.

I am quite comfortably confident that God is perfectly capable of putting the words on paper that need to be written.

I just do not see how you cannot see how Eternal Security is not a dark and evil doctrine, but okay. We can move on (if you do not want to discuss it - I will of course respect your decision on that).


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[jimmyjimmy]

Despite mistakes, salvation would never. . .

What do you mean by "mistakes" in the above statement?

 

[AFrazier]

What do you mean by "mistakes" in the above statement?

Apparently I meant "sin." And I have an idea that you probably knew that.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Apparently I meant "sin." And I have an idea that you probably knew that.

I didn't know that. Many Christians, yourself included, apparently, downplay sin so much as to refer to it as a mistake. On an exam they would say, "sin", but when allowed to speak long enough, one's true theology tends to come forward.

 

[AFrazier]

I didn't know that. Many Christians, yourself included, apparently, downplay sin so much as to refer to it as a mistake. On an exam they would say, "sin", but when allowed to speak long enough, one's true theology tends to come forward.

Okay, so you didn't know that. You just thought I meant "sin," but was downplaying it. In which case, you knew that I meant sin, and you were trying to bait me. Don't insult my intelligence.

Furthermore, "sin" is a mistake, error, straying from the path, disobedience, etc. People who "downplay" "sin" by calling it a mistake, are just putting sin on its proper sphere. Might be that other folks are up-playing mistakes and errors, turning them into this vague concept of sin that seems to cover everything from murder to farts in elevators.

If you do something you ought not to have done, then you have erred, made a mistake, or more simply "sinned." My choice of words has nothing to do with whether right is right or wrong is wrong.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Okay, so you didn't know that. You just thought I meant "sin," but was downplaying it. In which case, you knew that I meant sin, and you were trying to bait me. Don't insult my intelligence.

Furthermore, "sin" is a mistake, error, straying from the path, disobedience, etc. People who "downplay" "sin" by calling it a mistake, are just putting sin on its proper sphere. Might be that other folks are up-playing mistakes and errors, turning them into this vague concept of sin that seems to cover everything from murder to farts in elevators.

If you do something you ought not to have done, then you have erred, made a mistake, or more simply "sinned." My choice of words has nothing to do with whether right is right or wrong is wrong.

Please don't call me a liar. When I said that I didn't know. I didn't know.

Mistake is not sin and sin is not mistake. That's my point. People often downgrade sin (what the Bible calls sin) and refer to it as a mistake. A mistake is unintentional. Sin has to do with volition.

I'm done here, but please don't write the book.

 

[AFrazier]

Please don't call me a liar. When I said that I didn't know. I didn't know.

Mistake is not sin and sin is not mistake. That's my point. People often downgrade sin (what the Bible calls sin) and refer to it as a mistake. A mistake is unintentional. Sin has to do with volition.

I'm done here, but please don't write the book.

By definition, a mistake is "an action or judgment that is misguided or wrong." If you act in a way that is wrong, then it is sin. Sin is acting in a way that is wrong. Sin is, therefore, a "mistake." Sin can also be committed unintentionally in ignorance. Please see Leviticus 4:2-27, Leviticus 5:15, and Numbers 15:25-29.

I didn't call you a liar. You questioned my statement. It wasn't a random question. You questioned it because, "Many Christians," myself included according to you, "downplay sin so much as to refer to it as a mistake." This was your stated motive for the question. So you suspected that I meant "sin" when I said "mistake," and you were asking in order to clarify. Therefore, as I said, "I have an idea that you probably knew that [I meant sin]."

Now, if you have some reason why I shouldn't write the book, other than your insult borne out of false indignation, please explain. You have no idea what I know or do not know. I haven't said anything on this forum, or on this thread, to suggest that I don't know what I'm talking about. Shall I not write it because you don't like the word "mistake"? I assure you, the book is not about down-playing sin to the status of mere "mistake" (according to your apparent definition of it) in order to make it seem like it doesn't matter. The book is about why Jesus had to die. What his death accomplished. Why God needed the sacrifice to make it work. Our covenantal relationship to God. And several other relevant topics associated with the dynamics of Christian salvation.

So if you're "done here," then be good enough to keep further ugliness to yourself. You've insulted my intelligence enough as it is.