1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting after you have posted 20 posts and have received 5 likes.
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Natsarim

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by visionary, Oct 22, 2010.

  1. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    Messages:
    44,680
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Female
    Faith:
    Messianic
    Natsarim

    Does anyone know much about this group other than I believe they maybe one of the "God's name" people.
     
  2. Lulav

    Lulav Messianic Maven Supporter

    Messages:
    14,222
    Likes Received:
    134
    Gender:
    Female
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Faith:
    Messianic
  3. hamashiachagape

    hamashiachagape Newbie

    Messages:
    2,477
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Faith:
    Messianic
    They are indeed one of the God's name people. There are some who believe in what is known as the "barley harvest" calendar too, which is actually opposed to the rabbinical calendar. I believe this serves to add confusion to the Messianic movement. I actually attend a Natsarim..a.k.a. Netzarim group on Saturdays sometime, as I have friends whom are associated with this group of people.

    Many within this group of believers agree with a Oneness Theology. I believe this comes from the Rambam understanding of Deuteronomy 6:4, which I also agree is very hellenized compared to the actual print in the Torah. God's nature is actually a plurality in nature.

    They will also often times utilize the Pe[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ta-primacy..a.k.a. Aramaic. Now I believe in a Hebrew primacy of scripture, but I have a few particular issues with utilizing this copy of the Brit Hadashah. It seems as if it comes directly from the KJV..I find this suspect to state this should be thought of as an original copy of the Brit Hadashah.

    Also much is made out of the Shemtov Matthew. I have had a discussion with a Hasidic Netzarim about this book. There is a bunch of problems with utilizing this copy of the Shemtov Matthew, as it directly contradicts the actual earlier Greek copies that we have, and it is intended to do so. Shemtov wrote this as a reactionary stance against the missionary tactics of the Inquistion, and there may be a sympathy tied to his actions to a certain degree. But what I can not have empathy for is his outright distortion of scripture, actually removing anything having to do with Yeshua being God as an example.

    There is in fact an original Hebrew Matthew. That understanding is not in contention at all by any decent scholar. What is in contention is whether or not we actually have a copy of this Hebrew Matthew today. Since it was actually destroyed in the library of Caesarea, it should be thought that we do not. The Hebrew Matthew is actually from my understanding, an expanded work on the Toledoth Yeshu, which was also a distortion of Matthew. Worthy of note is that the Toledoth Yeshu has been utilized by skeptics..especially in the 1900s, to actually make some ridiculous claims about Yeshua being born 150 years or so before he was actually born. JP Holding writes about the Toledoth Yeshu here - Revilo P. Oliver: A Critique

    This is really grasping at straws folks.
     
  4. Heber

    Heber Senior Veteran

    Messages:
    4,196
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Faith:
    Messianic
    That Matthew was first written in Hebrew is a well known fact, attested to by those who were around much nearer his time, and by many academics today.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
  5. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    Messages:
    44,680
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Female
    Faith:
    Messianic
    Natsari claim that they can trace their roots back to the 1st century Jewish believers in Messiah who walked in the footsteps of Messiah Yeshua and kept the whole Torah as well as kept their cultural identity as Jews in tact by keeping many customs and traditions.
     
  6. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    Messages:
    44,680
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Female
    Faith:
    Messianic
    The prophet spoken of is Isaiah in the book that bears his name chapter 11, verses 1 through 2.

    Isaiah 11

    1And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
    2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

    Nazareth and Nazarene is a mistranslation of the word, “Natsari” meaning, “Protector” or “Branch.”

    The footnotes in the Hebraic Roots Version (HRV) says:

    “There appears to be a word play in the Hebrew here between Natzeret and Netzer (branch Isa. 11:2(11:1))
     
  7. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    Messages:
    44,680
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Female
    Faith:
    Messianic
  8. Lulav

    Lulav Messianic Maven Supporter

    Messages:
    14,222
    Likes Received:
    134
    Gender:
    Female
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Faith:
    Messianic
  9. hamashiachagape

    hamashiachagape Newbie

    Messages:
    2,477
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Faith:
    Messianic
    Yes, the early church fathers confirm this for us..such as Papias. No doubt can be made regarding this. What I discourage is the usage of the Shemtov Matthew, or the DuTillet version. This version seems highly related to the KJV for some odd, but I see not so coincidental reasons.
     
  10. Desert Rose

    Desert Rose Newbie

    Messages:
    987
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Faith:
    Christian
    no, sweetheart, that is not real or worthy of a smart girl Visio's attention.Check the home page.THis is a crazy man Lew White and his cult of "Sacred Name" Website is a product of a mentally disturbed person.
    highly entertaining though, to get a laugh or three

    Real Gems:
    -The website says that the word christian came from the word "cretin":D
    -Yeshua's name is "Yahusha"
    -Christianity is Synagogue of Shatan( i think he means Satan?)
    -women shouldnt be allowed to speak in the assembly (what a donkey.)
    etc..
    What i value this forum for is balanced, respectful view of others from most MJs. If anybody here subsribes to that Lew White craziness, better tell me, I promise to momentarily promptly leave..:cool:
     
  11. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

    Messages:
    44,680
    Likes Received:
    231
    Gender:
    Female
    Faith:
    Messianic
    take the meat .. spit out the bones.. but let's not go after the messanger .. not even a Balaam.. like Lew White.;)
     
  12. Desert Rose

    Desert Rose Newbie

    Messages:
    987
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Faith:
    Christian
    :D:D yeap, very bony donkey. Ok,just for you, i will try to follow your advice and go see of there any meat there. There better be!
     
    ChavaK likes this.
  13. Lulav

    Lulav Messianic Maven Supporter

    Messages:
    14,222
    Likes Received:
    134
    Gender:
    Female
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Faith:
    Messianic
    just for clarification, my :thumbsup: was for this post not the one following it.
     
Loading...