National Israel is cursed forever ! (2)

[Biblewriter]

The NT speaks of a fulfillment of Israel's promises (those given to the fathers) as in ACts 13, but drifts from what they used to mean to the nation back in the day, to a more global, universal horizon. You won't find that the land as such matters very much in the NT. Esp. in Eph 2-3, where so many technical/covenantal terms are used, yet quite apart from the land as they knew it. For one thing, Paul was speaking to many people in many nations and ethnicities when he wrote that!

And that has nothing to do with the land promises made to a people that were not even being addressed in these passages.

 

[Simonline]

"National Israel is cursed forever !
Mk 11:

11And Jesus entered into Jerusalem, and into the temple: and when he had looked round about upon all things, and now the eventide was come, he went out unto Bethany with the twelve.

12And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:

13And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.

14And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.


The nation of Israel at one time in world history was representive of Gods covenant people here on earth and had many spiritual advantages over and above all other nations of the world..rom 3:

1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

The oracles of God, meaning in short, important spiritual matters of the True God..

rom 9:

3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Much had been given to them as a nation in order to preserve her seperated from all other nations, in order for the messiah, to be born under Gods Law, to die the accursed for the seed of abraham..

Now Israels history as the special covenant people of God is riddled with unfaithfulness to God and apostacy, however, God tolerated her exisitnce up unto the promised seed was born, lived and died under the Law..

After the death of christ, of which national Israel was the chief culprit in bringing about, God Judged that nation as unworthy of eternal life acts 13:

45But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

46Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

This is here a final confirmation of God rejecting and leaving israel, the etnic jews under His Judgement..

This is confirmed too in matt 21:

33Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.

35And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.

36Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.

37But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.

38But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

39And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

40When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

41They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

israel as a nation , ethnic wise, had lost her distinction and spiritual privileges of being that nation that represented the kingdom of God on earth, and that privilege was being granted to a nation, the gentile church, which would bear that precious spiritual fruit unto God..This is too expressed in rom 11:

15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

They have been cast away..and this casting away is final, as far as nationally is concerned, but not individually..but national Israel who, because of her favoured position, should have bore fruit, because of the outward advantages, which the fig tree indicated, but did not bear fruit, God cursed that nation, and that forever..



14And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.

National Israel will never again have spiritual significance in this world, all those advantages are forever forfieted, but this was always part of Gods eternal plan and purpose for that people..

matt 21:

42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


It was the Lords doings, and as the wise man says:

ecc 3:

14I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

National Israel's rejection and curse is final.."

Unless you are a hard-core rabid anti-Semite with a hermetically sealed heart, mind and will upon this issue (in which case you are in serious trouble) then I strongly recommend that you read the works of Dr Michael L. Brown Ask Dr. Brown especially His book Our Hands Are Stained With Blood and The Real Kosher Jesus. It simply is not true that the Gentile Christian Church has 'replaced' or 'superseded' the nation of Israel as God's Chosen People (Rom.11:29)? I know that there are many Gentile Christian who, like yourself, passionately believe that the Gentile Christian Church has superseded Israel as 'the people of God' but a serious study of the Scriptures (without any presuppositional agenda) will show that Israel, whilst in a state of rebellion and unbelief, still has a role to play in the key plans and purposes of God. The Bible, when correctly handled (2Tim.3:15), shows that God has not yet finished with Israel and that He will yet bring her into judgement and ultimate redemption.

If God has rejected Israel completely then Gentile Christians had better beware since what is to stop God from casting off the Church in favour of another?! If God does not keep his covenants with Israel then the Gentile Christian Church is also in danger of being cast aside as well?! What kind of a capricious and untrustworthy 'God' are we serving?

Simonline.

 

[Interplanner]

There aren't any other because the two are reciprocals. But there certainly are churches that might not be used, huh? But it is not about groups anyway, genralization has to be limited. There will always be individual exceptions.

 

[Interplanner]

You are all invited to 'the Crossing point, Jn 12:34' in the esch. forum, because it is very quiet there but would be informative about this question.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There aren't any other because the two are reciprocals. But there certainly are churches that might not be used, huh? But it is not about groups anyway, genralization has to be limited.
There will always be individual exceptions.

Not sure I understand that. Could you elaborate?

You are all invited to 'the Crossing point, Jn 12:34' in the esch. forum, because it is very quiet there but would be informative about this question.

Can you give a link to it? Thanks


.

 

[Danoh]

Simoneonline, per Isaiah 5, Israel is the vineyard. Per both the Lord's Own words as well as of those He was addressing - in the passage you conviniently left out, it is the wicked husbandmen - Israel's leaders, see also Matt. 23, that the kingdom of Heaven shall be taken from. While that nation to whom it is to be given to is the "little flock" of Luke 12:32.

While Paul spoke of the advantage Israel has, not had, of what pertains to them in said kingdom. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (on His part). What you are doing is making God out a liar...

In short, the kingdom of Heaven being referred to there is the "days (rule) of Heaven... on EARTH as it is in Heaven" and how that participation in its authority would be taken from Israel's corrupt leadership and given to a nation - not nations, which is what the Gentiles are - nations - plural.

Later, Peter identifies this nation (singular) in his Epistle, which, per Gal. 2, were written to and about "the Circumcision."

Though the believing remnant within that nation had been considered "no people" by the corrupt leadership of the nation of Israel and Israel in general, that remnant had been considered true Israel, a nation within that nation, to God. This is why Paul refers to them as the Israel of God, at the end of his Galatians letter to the Body of Christ. Both groups were to acknowledge one another as being of the household of God - both they of True Israel, and they of the Body of Christ.

Of course, this was back then, when True Israel was then giving way to what God was then now doing among the Gentiles, Acts 15.

The confusion is that that group ("the little flock") and its promises with it, gradually died off, having received only "a foretaste of their world to come," which world (age) is now awaiting a future time after this odd, Dispensation of Gentile Grace (Israel presently just another lost Gentile nation, and thus, also having to presently approach God in UNcircumcision until the fulness of this Gentile Grace be come in, Rom. 11:25-27.

Failing to see this, we appropriate Israel's instruction in righteousness (Matthew thru John and Hebrews thu Revelation) as Body truth. That's fine where the issue is of a similar (Intradispensational) nature, but when it is not we end up twsiting the Scripture on these things to the destruction, if not of how to get saved in this age of Gentile Grace, then of how we are to be established in the faith, once we are saved.

This confusion is not new. It is observable back then, as Israel's Dispensation of the Law and the Prophets, failed to transition from it, to their prophesied Kingdom, due both, to that nation's continued rebellion, and God's having known of Israel's rebellion, first, to Him, then to His Christ, and finally, against His Spirit's continunace "of all that Lord both began to do and to teach" within that nation, God, having foreseen all this even before the world began, had planned to temporarily interrupt said coming Kingdom Dispensation with His kept secret since the world began Dispensation of Gentile Grace.

It is observable in Paul's having to address these kinds of issues throughout his writings so much, in in an effort to clear said confusion up. As then, so now, given how much the Body has confused of Israel's portion with its own. Although people like you really take the cake. You just mix any ol passage with any other.

What you are doing is what Paul refers to as "science falsely so called... teaching the Law, understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm." For, in Israel's case, He clearly promises that nation over and over as He does at the end of Jeremiah 31 - that He will turn His back on them and His promise to them when Heaven and Earth can be measured - In this He compares what you so erroneously assert as fact, to an impossibility!

And fruit born by plants (grapes, figs, etc) mentioned refers to Israel's religion, not to Israel. Study that out if you care to let the Word speak for itself.

Danoh
Eph. 4:16

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Simoneonline, per Isaiah 5, Israel is the vineyard. Per both the Lord's Own words as well as of those He was addressing - in the passage you conviniently left out, it is the wicked husbandmen - Israel's leaders, see also Matt. 23, that the kingdom of Heaven shall be taken from. While that nation to whom it is to be given to is the "little flock" of Luke 12:32.

While Paul spoke of the advantage Israel has, not had, of what pertains to them in said kingdom. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (on His part). What you are doing is making God out a liar...

In short, the kingdom of Heaven being referred to there is the "days (rule) of Heaven... on EARTH as it is in Heaven" and how that participation in its authority would be taken from Israel's corrupt leadership and given to a nation - not nations, which is what the Gentiles are - nations - plural.

Later, Peter identifies this nation (singular) in his Epistle, which, per Gal. 2, were written to and about "the Circumcision."

Though the believing remnant within that nation had been considered "no people" by the corrupt leadership of the nation of Israel and Israel in general, that remnant had been considered true Israel, a nation within that nation, to God. This is why Paul refers to them as the Israel of God, at the end of his Galatians letter to the Body of Christ. Both groups were to acknowledge one another as being of the household of God - both they of True Israel, and they of the Body of Christ.

Of course, this was back then, when True Israel was then giving way to what God was then now doing among the Gentiles, Acts 15.

The confusion is that that group ("the little flock") and its promises with it, gradually died off, having received only "a foretaste of their world to come," which world (age) is now awaiting a future time after this odd, Dispensation of Gentile Grace (Israel presently just another lost Gentile nation, and thus, also having to presently approach God in UNcircumcision until the fulness of this Gentile Grace be come in, Rom. 11:25-27.

Failing to see this, we appropriate Israel's instruction in righteousness (Matthew thru John and Hebrews thu Revelation) as Body truth. That's fine where the issue is of a similar (Intradispensational) nature, but when it is not we end up twsiting the Scripture on these things to the destruction, if not of how to get saved in this age of Gentile Grace, then of how we are to be established in the faith, once we are saved.

This confusion is not new. It is observable back then, as Israel's Dispensation of the Law and the Prophets, failed to transition from it, to their prophesied Kingdom, due both, to that nation's continued rebellion, and God's having known of Israel's rebellion, first, to Him, then to His Christ, and finally, against His Spirit's continunace "of all that Lord both began to do and to teach" within that nation, God, having foreseen all this even before the world began, had planned to temporarily interrupt said coming Kingdom Dispensation with His kept secret since the world began Dispensation of Gentile Grace.

It is observable in Paul's having to address these kinds of issues throughout his writings so much, in in an effort to clear said confusion up. As then, so now, given how much the Body has confused of Israel's portion with its own. Although people like you really take the cake. You just mix any ol passage with any other.

What you are doing is what Paul refers to as "science falsely so called... teaching the Law, understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm." For, in Israel's case, He clearly promises that nation over and over as He does at the end of Jeremiah 31 - that He will turn His back on them and His promise to them when Heaven and Earth can be measured - In this He compares what you so erroneously assert as fact, to an impossibility!

And fruit born by plants (grapes, figs, etc) mentioned refers to Israel's religion, not to Israel. Study that out if you care to let the Word speak for itself.

Danoh
Eph. 4:16

Great post!



.

 

[Danoh]

Knowing whether God has completely cast away His people WHOM HE DID FOREKNOW even before their first transgression is a very simple matter: do the sun and the moon still shine within their respective hours (ordinances)?

Jeremiah 31:

35. THUS SAITH THE LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar (talk about His Hand being in EVERY detail!) THE LORD OF HOSTS IS HIS NAME:

36. IF (did you get that - IF) those ordinances depart from me, SAITH THE LORD, THEN the seed of Israel ALSO SHALL CEASE from being a nation BEFORE ME FOR EVER.

But lets call God a liar, Supplanter, ur, Interplanter...

Jeremiah 33:

23. MOREOVER the word OF THE LORD came to Jeremiah, SAYING,

24. Considerest thou NOT what these people have spoken, saying, The two families WHICH THE LORD HATH CHOSEN, he hath cast off? Thus THEY have dispised MY PEOPLE, that they should be no more a nation before them.

25. THUS SAITH THE LORD; IF MY COVENANT be NOT with day and night, AND IF I HAVE NOT appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;

26. THEN (get that - THEN) I will cast away the seed of Jacob and of MY SERVANT David, so that I will not take ANY of HIS SEED TO BE RULERS OVER THE SEED OF Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: FOR I WILL CAUSE their captivity to RETURN, AND have MERCY ON THEM.

Is it any wonder that Paul, who eas so grieved his heart over God's once more having to delay the glory He has planned for this amazing people, ends up as joyous as he does in Romans 11: the mystery of Israel's TEMPORARY blindness having made known to and through Paul "O the DEPTH of the RICHES BOTH of the WISDOM and KNOWLEDGE of GOD! How UNSEARCHABLE ARE HIS JUDGEMENTS, AND HIS WAYS PAST FINDING OUT!

Get that, the brother is expressing his joy over the fact that just when it looked like God might have cast away His amazing people, He began revealing to this dear brother (Paul) that no, that He had all along planned to do a work among the Gentiles DIRECTLY - BUT - Only "until the fullness of" said "Gentiles be come in" - BECAUSE HE IS ABLE TO DO ONE AND THEN RETURN TO THE OTHER BECAUSE "OF HIM, AND THROUGH HIM, AND TO HIM, ARE ALL THINGS" - TO HIM ALONE "TO WHOM BE GLORY FOR EVER. AMEN" Rom. 11:33, 36.

And some dumb Gentile, who but for God's mercy, he would be worshipping some dead idol, is going to come along and "instruct HIM", yeah, sure Interplanter and your kind, keep living in the shame of your darkened sky on this issue.

"And let every one that nameth the name of the Lord depart from (the) iniquity" of such a disbelieving timeline, 2 Timothy 2:15 - 21.

Danoh
Eph. 4:16

 

[Zeek]

Unless you are a hard-core rabid anti-Semite with a hermetically sealed heart, mind and will upon this issue (in which case you are in serious trouble) then I strongly recommend that you read the works of Dr Michael L. Brown Ask Dr. Brown especially His book Our Hands Are Stained With Blood and The Real Kosher Jesus. It simply is not true that the Gentile Christian Church has 'replaced' or 'superseded' the nation of Israel as God's Chosen People (Rom.11:29)? I know that there are many Gentile Christian who, like yourself, passionately believe that the Gentile Christian Church has superseded Israel as 'the people of God' but a serious study of the Scriptures (without any presuppositional agenda) will show that Israel, whilst in a state of rebellion and unbelief, still has a role to play in the key plans and purposes of God. The Bible, when correctly handled (2Tim.3:15), shows that God has not yet finished with Israel and that He will yet bring her into judgement and ultimate redemption.

If God has rejected Israel completely then Gentile Christians had better beware since what is to stop God from casting off the Church in favour of another?! If God does not keep his covenants with Israel then the Gentile Christian Church is also in danger of being cast aside as well?! What kind of a capricious and untrustworthy 'God' are we serving?

Simonline.

I'll give that a loud Amen bro.

 

[Zeek]

Knowing whether God has completely cast away His people WHOM HE DID FOREKNOW even before their first transgression is a very simple matter: do the sun and the moon still shine within their respective hours (ordinances)?

Jeremiah 31:

35. THUS SAITH THE LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar (talk about His Hand being in EVERY detail!) THE LORD OF HOSTS IS HIS NAME:

36. IF (did you get that - IF) those ordinances depart from me, SAITH THE LORD, THEN the seed of Israel ALSO SHALL CEASE from being a nation BEFORE ME FOR EVER.

But lets call God a liar, Supplanter, ur, Interplanter...

Jeremiah 33:

23. MOREOVER the word OF THE LORD came to Jeremiah, SAYING,

24. Considerest thou NOT what these people have spoken, saying, The two families WHICH THE LORD HATH CHOSEN, he hath cast off? Thus THEY have dispised MY PEOPLE, that they should be no more a nation before them.

25. THUS SAITH THE LORD; IF MY COVENANT be NOT with day and night, AND IF I HAVE NOT appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;

26. THEN (get that - THEN) I will cast away the seed of Jacob and of MY SERVANT David, so that I will not take ANY of HIS SEED TO BE RULERS OVER THE SEED OF Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: FOR I WILL CAUSE their captivity to RETURN, AND have MERCY ON THEM.

Is it any wonder that Paul, who eas so grieved his heart over God's once more having to delay the glory He has planned for this amazing people, ends up as joyous as he does in Romans 11: the mystery of Israel's TEMPORARY blindness having made known to and through Paul "O the DEPTH of the RICHES BOTH of the WISDOM and KNOWLEDGE of GOD! How UNSEARCHABLE ARE HIS JUDGEMENTS, AND HIS WAYS PAST FINDING OUT!

Get that, the brother is expressing his joy over the fact that just when it looked like God might have cast away His amazing people, He began revealing to this dear brother (Paul) that no, that He had all along planned to do a work among the Gentiles DIRECTLY - BUT - Only "until the fullness of" said "Gentiles be come in" - BECAUSE HE IS ABLE TO DO ONE AND THEN RETURN TO THE OTHER BECAUSE "OF HIM, AND THROUGH HIM, AND TO HIM, ARE ALL THINGS" - TO HIM ALONE "TO WHOM BE GLORY FOR EVER. AMEN" Rom. 11:33, 36.

And some dumb Gentile, who but for God's mercy, he would be worshipping some dead idol, is going to come along and "instruct HIM", yeah, sure Interplanter and your kind, keep living in the shame of your darkened sky on this issue.

"And let every one that nameth the name of the Lord depart from (the) iniquity" of such a disbelieving timeline, 2 Timothy 2:15 - 21.

Danoh
Eph. 4:16

Spot on.

 

[PeterAV]

ORwildcat, I must disagree with you where you said "God gave Israel the responsibility of proclaiming the Gospel of Christ to the world and they failed. "

Acts 17:6-7 says "And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus"

They said they were turning the world upside down! Pauls journeys show that he went out of his way to preach the gospel to the world, and many Jews gave their lives for their testimony. If not for Jews, the gospel might not have turned the world upside down!

They are Christians!!!!
There is no longer Jew or Gentile in Christ!
Good grief!

 

[PeterAV]

PSALM 89

20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:

21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him.

22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.

23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him.

24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted.

25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers.

26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.

27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.

28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.

29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.

34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.

36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.

37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

Only a remnant gets saved.

 

[Zeek]

They are Christians!!!!
There is no longer Jew or Gentile in Christ!
Good grief!

The word 'Christian' was originally introduced to denote the follower's of 'The Way' and was meant to be a derogatory title...eventually it stuck.

However the Believers in Jesus, both Jew and Gentile recognized their differences and also recognized that as Believers they were united in a common faith and that the Holy Spirit would fall upon and indwell a Jew as well as a Gentile.

Everyone should by now understand that whether Jew or Gentile, black, brown, white, yellow or any other shade, male or female, rich or poor, bound or free, healthy or sick...none of these things have any bearing upon being accepted in the 'Beloved'...and in Messiah we are united as One.

Being united in Jesus does not preclude being a Jew, any more than it does being a female...sure a Jewish believer in Yeshua, might be happy enough to himself a Jewish Christian, Jewish Believer or a Messianic Jew...but he is still Jewish (something I pray the Israeli government will come to understand one day).

There sometimes seems to be a blind spot with Christians when it comes to recognizing the Jewish people as a nation called of G-d to proclaim His power and His glory to the world and upon whom He has sovereignly placed His name...a sort of 'we can only accept them if they accept Jesus' type of belief...but that is not how G-d lays things out.

 

[Biblewriter]

Only a remnant gets saved.

It is true that those that will be delivered in the end will only be a remnant. But by that time, that remnant will be all that is left of the nation.

We read, "And it shall come to pass in all the land," Says the LORD, "That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it: I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, 'This is My people'; And each one will say, 'The LORD is my God.'" (Zechariah 13:8-9)

We again read, "'As I live,' says the Lord GOD, 'surely with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out, I will rule over you. I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will plead My case with you face to face. Just as I pleaded My case with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will plead My case with you,' says the Lord GOD. 'I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant; I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD.'" (Ezekiel 20:33-38

And we read, "In that day you shall not be shamed for any of your deeds In which you transgress against Me; For then I will take away from your midst Those who rejoice in your pride, And you shall no longer be haughty In My holy mountain. I will leave in your midst A meek and humble people, And they shall trust in the name of the LORD. The remnant of Israel shall do no unrighteousness And speak no lies, Nor shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth; For they shall feed their flocks and lie down, And no one shall make them afraid." (Zephaniah 3:11-13)


All of those who are left will repent, for we also read "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves; all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves." (Zechariah 12:10-1)


And that is how "All Israel shall be saved." (Romans 11:26)

 

[MWood]

The word 'Christian' was originally introduced to denote the follower's of 'The Way' and was meant to be a derogatory title...eventually it stuck.

However the Believers in Jesus, both Jew and Gentile recognized their differences and also recognized that as Believers they were united in a common faith and that the Holy Spirit would fall upon and indwell a Jew as well as a Gentile.

Everyone should by now understand that whether Jew or Gentile, black, brown, white, yellow or any other shade, male or female, rich or poor, bound or free, healthy or sick...none of these things have any bearing upon being accepted in the 'Beloved'...and in Messiah we are united as One.

Being united in Jesus does not preclude being a Jew, any more than it does being a female...sure a Jewish believer in Yeshua, might be happy enough to himself a Jewish Christian, Jewish Believer or a Messianic Jew...but he is still Jewish (something I pray the Israeli government will come to understand one day).

There sometimes seems to be a blind spot with Christians when it comes to recognizing the Jewish people as a nation called of G-d to proclaim His power and His glory to the world and upon whom He has sovereignly placed His name...a sort of 'we can only accept them if they accept Jesus' type of belief...but that is not how G-d lays things out.

AMEN, Bro Zeek!

 

[random person]

It is true that those that will be delivered in the end will only be a remnant. But by that time, that remnant will be all that is left of the nation.

We read, "And it shall come to pass in all the land," Says the LORD, "That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it: I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, 'This is My people'; And each one will say, 'The LORD is my God.'" (Zechariah 13:8-9)

We again read, "'As I live,' says the Lord GOD, 'surely with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out, I will rule over you. I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will plead My case with you face to face. Just as I pleaded My case with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will plead My case with you,' says the Lord GOD. 'I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant; I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD.'" (Ezekiel 20:33-38

And we read, "In that day you shall not be shamed for any of your deeds In which you transgress against Me; For then I will take away from your midst Those who rejoice in your pride, And you shall no longer be haughty In My holy mountain. I will leave in your midst A meek and humble people, And they shall trust in the name of the LORD. The remnant of Israel shall do no unrighteousness And speak no lies, Nor shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth; For they shall feed their flocks and lie down, And no one shall make them afraid." (Zephaniah 3:11-13)


All of those who are left will repent, for we also read "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves; all the families that remain, every family by itself, and their wives by themselves." (Zechariah 12:10-1)


And that is how "All Israel shall be saved." (Romans 11:26)

Incorrect,
Romans 11:4-6




4 But what is the divine response to him? “I have kept for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.


The remnant was present during Paul's day and it is present with us today. The remnant is already in the world. They're members of the Israel of God. And what is the Israel of God, you ask?





Galatians 6:15-16


15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.




Ephesians 2:11-13




11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.




Galatians 3:28-29




28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.




1 Peter 2:5




5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.




1 Peter 2:9




9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;


You're vision of the Aliyah is pretty bleak and bloody and entails a second holocaust for the Jews. Alot of Christians believe in this due to the works of Hal Lindsay, Tim LaHaye, and most televangelists if not all are Christian Zionists too.

 

[mordechai85]

opps wrong thread.

 

[sheina]

Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Genesis 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

So, who is going to be "blessed" and who is going to be "cursed"....according to these verses. Remember, God's promises to Abram are unconditional.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by PeterAV

They are Christians!!!!
There is no longer Jew or Gentile in Christ!
Good grief!
​

The word 'Christian' was originally introduced to denote the follower's of 'The Way' and was meant to be a derogatory title...eventually it stuck...................

How was it derogatory?


.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

opps wrong thread.

That happens sometimes....

Btw, welcome to CF.



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