National Israel is cursed forever ! (2)

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Joseph Melo
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Malachi 4:4-6King James Version (KJV)
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

As it is written:

Deuteronomy 18:16-18King James Version (KJV)

16 According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.



5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

As it is written:

Matthew 11:13-14King James Version (KJV)
13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.




6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

"the great and dreadful day of the Lord"
As it is written:

Revelation 19:15King James Version (KJV)

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
 
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Righttruth

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Show me in the verse where it says other than what I said. Go ahead. Break it down.

Romans 11
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."

23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
 
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Open Heart

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Romans 11
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."

23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Still waiting for you to deal with the verse I quoted.
 
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Numenorian

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The Land Promise given to Abraham Gen 12 :

1Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

Gen 15:

15And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.


16But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

17And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Now from subsequent scripture we know that the Land that was Promised in Gen 12, was not a literal land, but that a literal land would be given as its type , But the Land promised which Abraham understood, was a City of God, made by God per heb 11:

8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.


9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

This is developed further in heb 11:


13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Now, back in vs 8-10 - Even while Abraham's feet were standing in the Type [ Physical Land], He yet viewed himself in a strange land, looking for a Heavenly city, hence Abraham, and the other Heirs of the same Promise, Isaac and Jacob understood the Typical material land, to be a type of the True Spiritual Promise. For Faith looks not at the temporal which is seen, but the unseen 2 cor 4:


18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. [The Eternal Land of Promise]2 Corinthians 5


1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7(For we walk by faith, not by sight)

Yes, all the above here is what Abraham believed to be True from the first promise given him in gen 12:1 of the land.

The Land promise was not a carnal piece of land in the middle east, but a Heavenly inheritance that encompassed the world:
This is Gnostic, man. When you go this route, you throw overboard your map, the historical-grammatical method of interpreting Scripture, and there's no limit to the directions you can take. The spiritualizing method takes the Bible out of the hand of the common man who simply knows how to read.
 
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Job8

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National Israel is cursed forever !
This statement is false and contradicts Scripture. National Israel has been spiritually blinded until the Second Coming of Christ. Proof? Romans 11:1,2,25:

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,.. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
 
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Numenorian

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This statement is false and contradicts Scripture. National Israel has been spiritually blinded until the Second Coming of Christ. Proof? Romans 11:1,2,25:

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,.. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
True! There is nothing clearer in the prophets than the judgment and restoration of the natural branches...unless we spiritualize the restoration passages to apply to the Church - and leave the judgment passages to Israel.
 
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Righttruth

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This statement is false and contradicts Scripture. National Israel has been spiritually blinded until the Second Coming of Christ. Proof? Romans 11:1,2,25:

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,.. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Whatever, now the salvation for all through Jesus Christ only.
 
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Numenorian

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Whatever, now the salvation for all through Jesus Christ only.
Is it nothing to you that:
- God has, through tears, abandoned His corporate Son? (Ex. 4:22, Hos.11:1-8, Isa. 6:8-12)
- that your salvation has been one of the purposes and result of this abandonment?
- that your salvation is for the purpose of mercy being shown to the unbelieving natural branches?
- that in all the long and terrible history of Israel's suffering during this period, GOD has been suffering with them?

“In all their affliction He was afflicted, And the angel of His presence saved them; In His love and in His mercy He redeemed them, And He lifted them and carried them all the days of old.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭63:9‬ ‭

Do you just wave all of this off with a flippant "Whatever"?
 
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Righttruth

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Is it nothing to you that:
- God has, through tears, abandoned His corporate Son? (Ex. 4:22, Hos.11:1-8, Isa. 6:8-12)
- that your salvation has been one of the purposes and result of this abandonment?
- that your salvation is for the purpose of mercy being shown to the unbelieving natural branches?
- that in all the long and terrible history of Israel's suffering during this period, GOD has been suffering with them?

“In all their affliction He was afflicted, And the angel of His presence saved them; In His love and in His mercy He redeemed them, And He lifted them and carried them all the days of old.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭63:9‬ ‭

Do you just wave all of this off with a flippant "Whatever"?


Matthew 21:33 "Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who planted a vineyard and put a wall around it and dug a wine press in it, and built a tower, and rented it out to vine-growers and went on a journey.
34 "When the harvest time approached, he sent his slaves to the vine-growers to receive his produce.
35 "The vine-growers took his slaves and beat one, and killed another, and stoned a third.
36 "Again he sent another group of slaves larger than the first; and they did the same thing to them.
37 "But afterward he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.'
38 "But when the vine-growers saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir; come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.'
39 "They took him, and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 "Therefore when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?"
41 They *said to Him, "He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons."
42 Jesus *said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures, 'The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone; This came about from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes'?
43 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.
44 "And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust."
45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them.
 
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Numenorian

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But true as the reality of judgement is - and I am one who maintains that Israel is headed for judgment and exile once more in the time of Jacob's trouble - this is not the last word. Redemption is the last word.

“Then He said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel; behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.' Therefore prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken and done it," declares the LORD.'"”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:11-14‬ ‭

God is not just passively waiting for this expression from the nation (even the Holocaust did not bring them to this place; "Never again!" has been the quintessential Jewish statement about that event) - He is going to bring them to this place, through Jacob's trouble...so He can save them.
 
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Job8

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Whatever, now the salvation for all through Jesus Christ only.
Redeemed and restored Israel on earth is indeed salvation through Jesus Christ alone under the New Covenant. But that does not nullify the Abrahamic Covenant. To the contrary, it fulfils it to the letter.
 
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Numenorian

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Redeemed and restored Israel on earth is indeed salvation through Jesus Christ alone under the New Covenant. But that does not nullify the Abrahamic Covenant. To the contrary, it fulfils it to the letter.

Yes! And it will be the open vindication of God in history, as all the nations, and Israel finally understand and acknowledge His ways with Israel...."and then they will know that I am the Lord."
 
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Righttruth

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Redeemed and restored Israel on earth is indeed salvation through Jesus Christ alone under the New Covenant. But that does not nullify the Abrahamic Covenant. To the contrary, it fulfils it to the letter.

The letter of the Law has been fulfilled by Jesus already. Now it is the spirit of the Law that prevails. Hence, all through Jesus only with belief.
 
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Numenorian

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The letter of the Law has been fulfilled by Jesus already. Now it is the spirit of the Law that prevails. Hence, all through Jesus only with belief.
The letter-spirit formulation is a common distinction that is made. But the Mosaic Law is a covenant that Israel entered into with God that they are still accountable to obey, which implies that they are presently in covenant jeopardy and subject to all the curses of the broken law.

It's not the prerogative of Christians to redefine covenants unless the Scriptures do. Paul says that "the Law has become our tutor, to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith." He confirms what the prophets say: Israel is under it until the Spirit is poured out from on high, and the everlasting righteousness of the new covenant (Jer. 31:31-34) is given to them.
 
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Righttruth

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The letter-spirit formulation is a common distinction that is made. But the Mosaic Law is a covenant that Israel entered into with God that they are still accountable to obey, which implies that they are presently in covenant jeopardy and subject to all the curses of the broken law.

That is their preference of the old ways that involve rituals. Can anybody change and ignore the Ten Commandments? Now one need to worship God in spirit and truth. That is what impresses Him. He will look for such people.

It's not the prerogative of Christians to redefine covenants unless the Scriptures do. Paul says that "the Law has become our tutor, to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith." He confirms what the prophets say: Israel is under it until the Spirit is poured out from on high, and the everlasting righteousness of the new covenant (Jer. 31:31-34) is given to them.

Spirit has been poured out to all who opened up for the ministry of Jesus on Pentecost. Continuation of old ritualistic Law and building the third temple will not auger well with such a possibility!
 
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Numenorian

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That is their preference of the old ways that involve rituals. Can anybody change and ignore the Ten Commandments? Now one need to worship God in spirit and truth. That is what impresses Him. He will look for such people.

I am talking about the 10 commandments, which were given to Israel to tutor them, to lead them to Christ.

“But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:23-24‬ ‭

The Levitical administration is what is in view in Hebrews, which gives way to the "better covenant, enacted on better promises", which is none other than the Abrahamic and Davidic everlasting promises..."they will all Me, from the least to the greatest, for I will forgive their iniquities, and their sin I will remember no more."

But it is not exactly true that performing sacrifices was their "preference". This was a God-given administration, the performance of which was not amenable to the flesh. In the diligent performance of their duties, the priests would have been steeped in gore and blood.

Spirit has been poured out to all who opened up for the ministry of Jesus on Pentecost. Continuation of old ritualistic Law and building the third temple will not auger well with such a possibility!
You're right! I believe the sudden turning of the Antichrist against the peace he brokered with Israel, and his assault on the sanctuary is the expression of God's extreme displeasure with her "covenant with hell and death".

“Therefore, hear the word of the LORD, O scoffers,
Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem,
Because you have said,
"We have made a covenant with death, And with Sheol we have made a pact.
The overwhelming scourge will not reach us when it passes by,
For we have made falsehood our refuge and we have concealed ourselves with deception." "I will make justice the measuring line
And righteousness the level;
Then hail will sweep away the refuge of lies
And the waters will overflow the secret place....
Your covenant with death will be canceled, And your pact with Sheol will not stand; When the overwhelming scourge passes through,
Then you become its trampling place.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭28:14-15, 17-18‬ ‭
 
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