Discussion NAR when did it go wrong, what faults can you list?

[faroukfarouk]

Well, I hope that such men are never put in leadership positions within our churches. If nothing else, when a young person decides to get a tattoo, and particularly with one that is glaring, then it usually reflects poor parenting where the child has been placed at a servere disadvantage from the start.

Well, in my area, among conservative, Bible believing local churches there are indeed believing people with tattoos. So the question arises, what to "do" with them? are they - in your reckoning - supposed to be treated somehow less sympathetically or respectfully than those who don't happen to have any tattoos? In your reckoning, are they supposed to be stigmatized and excluded from meaningful levels of fellowship?

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Dr Ken Fish is from the Vineyard church and was a ghost writer for John Wimber, expressed in his teaching on deliverance ministry that we are commanded not to cut ourselves or write on the skin, and gave anecdotes on ministry to the tattooed. He can comment on Todd Bentley as an elder.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

NAR is like that group of people who pretend to be prophets and treat it as an excuse to be rude to others right? I guess it can be redeemed if it stopped being a movement. You cannot cultivate Apostles with the current church tools that caps the leadership hill at pastor, but you can cultivate gurus that everyone is mezmorized by.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I think one of my teachers might have been in that movement back in the 1990s. He kind of taught everything backwards and did call himself apostolic.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well, in my area, among conservative, Bible believing local churches there are indeed believing people with tattoos. So the question arises, what to "do" with them? are they - in your reckoning - supposed to be treated somehow less sympathetically or respectfully than those who don't happen to have any tattoos? In your reckoning, are they supposed to be stigmatized and excluded from meaningful levels of fellowship?

A church that bases its judgments on the outer appearance of things is a sad church indeed.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

NAR is like that group of people who pretend to be prophets and treat it as an excuse to be rude to others right? I guess it can be redeemed if it stopped being a movement. You cannot cultivate Apostles with the current church tools that caps the leadership hill at pastor, but you can cultivate gurus that everyone is mezmorized by.

That's what I am looking for, examples of rudeness... what did he say?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That's what I am looking for, examples of rudeness... what did he say?

I was referring to some followers of the movement that i've encountered over the years. The public figures don't have that problem.
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If you ever meet someone of the "touch not the lord's anointed" school of thought ... walk in the other direction as fast as you can.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I was referring to some followers of the movement that i've encountered over the years. The public figures don't have that problem.
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If you ever meet someone of the "touch not the lord's anointed" school of thought ... walk in the other direction as fast as you can.

Touch not the anointed is a scripture verse, but I think it means to follow King David's example with Saul, as an extreme case.

 

[jiminpa]

Ok, so we can find followers of the movement who need to grow, but I still haven't seen any Biblical indictment against the teaching and practices of the movement at large.

In fact one of the arguments is that they are following Biblical examples more closely than has been done since the Bible.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Touch not the anointed is a scripture verse, but I think it means to follow King David's example with Saul, as an extreme case.

I understand the context of the passage, but modern application means, I'm anointed don't criticize me, but do everything that I say.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I can find helpful teaching in about anything, even after i've been reamed by a self proclaimed heresy hunter, I'll distill something out if it after brimstone cools off from their fiery breath.
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One of my gifts is discernment, instead of going down the road of trying to get the church to be more "spiritually safe" I just walk away now, people don't like to change any more than I do. And I don't like how certain beings like to hijack people in my surroundings just because they are just cattle to them.
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I don't like dealing with the collective mind of the church anymore than the next guy anyhow. It's not like I get any special status for being in contact with the embodiment of everyone's sin anyway, but maybe when some real apostles show up ... this won't be an issue.
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I don't see what is meant by a new apostolic revolution, perhaps that's what the reformation was thought to be at the time but was called something else because of the term apostolic succession used by the catholics.
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Yeah, but if you're out there and really think you're the real deal, then go change the world as an ambassador of the kingdom of God.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Touch not the anointed is a scripture verse, but I think it means to follow King David's example with Saul, as an extreme case.

King David and Saul really WERE annointed by God. God's Word tells us that.

These new prophets? God's Word never told me they were or are annointed by God.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Ok, so we can find followers of the movement who need to grow, but I still haven't seen any Biblical indictment against the teaching and practices of the movement at large.

In fact one of the arguments is that they are following Biblical examples more closely than has been done since the Bible.

Anyone who has such a God complex that they believe that they should rule over others and make decisions on behalf of regions and millions of people, I'd start running now.

God gives us each the freedom to choose and there is a lot of chaos on earth because of it, but that is God's will, that we worship Him in love. Theocracies are not of Christ. Removing people and churches free will, not of Christ. Spiritual manipulation, not of Christ.

What is of Christ? That we should freely CHOOSE to worship Him in truth and because we love Him. That's the way the apostles setup the church.

 

[AGTG]

Ok, so we can find followers of the movement who need to grow, but I still haven't seen any Biblical indictment against the teaching and practices of the movement at large.

In fact one of the arguments is that they are following Biblical examples more closely than has been done since the Bible.

The most seasoned veterans of the modern prophetic movement are flat-out false prophets by every Biblical standard.

The gift of prophecy is real, but this movement is so poorly established in doctrine it hasn't the vaguest idea how to explain it Biblically, which is why they are not used by God in that respect practically.

 

[AGTG]

Ok, so we can find followers of the movement who need to grow, but I still haven't seen any Biblical indictment against the teaching and practices of the movement at large.

In fact one of the arguments is that they are following Biblical examples more closely than has been done since the Bible.

Show us some clear prophecies that have come forth from any of the big names: James Goll, Kris Valloton, Heidi Baker, whomever, let's see. Let's put it to the test.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Touch not the anointed is a scripture verse, but I think it means to follow King David's example with Saul, as an extreme case.

God annointed Saul to be King. That is where that came from and was specific to those God made OT Kings over Israel.

 

[ToBeLoved]

The most seasoned veterans of the modern prophetic movement are flat-out false prophets by every Biblical standard.

The gift of prophecy is real, but this movement is so poorly established in doctrine it hasn't the vaguest idea how to explain it Biblically, which is why they are not used by God in that respect practically.

Paul Cain who is now deceased said that the number of prophecies that came true was about 30%. Most were very vague.

 

[AGTG]

God annointed Saul to be King. That is where that came from and was specific to those God made OT Kings over Israel.

It's funny how people quote that scripture, as it usually refers to Saul who is a clear type of Satan that the people wanted to rule over them instead of Father God.

 

[AGTG]

Paul Cain who is now deceased said that the number of prophecies that came true was about 30%. Most were very vague.

This is true. Fortune cookies do just as well.

You also have to understand, though, the demonic forces behind the word of faithish underpinnings of this movement can unleash hell on people when prophetic curses are spoken over people and they buy it. I've heard some doozy testimonies of people going through hell through a "prophetic word" which was nothing but a portent of doom to "warn" the people. These people allow demons into their life by submitting to such wicked nonsense.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Show us some clear prophecies that have come forth from any of the big names: James Goll, Kris Valloton, Heidi Baker, whomever, let's see. Let's put it to the test.

Prophecy would be subjective and relevant and understood by the congregation at hand and the culture there.