Mystery Babylon

[A New World]

It is not possible that John was talking about the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD because the Revelation was written at least 25 years later. Moscow killed many Christians and was the mother of harlots (i.e., the mother of atheist nations).

Since John was writing about the imminent judgment on Jerusalem he, by necessity, wrote Revelation prior to AD 70. Again, it is not possible that her judgment came shortly after AD 95 because she had already been left desolate as Jesus prophesied.

I don't know if you're avoiding the question, don't have an answer, or you're just ignoring it hoping it goes away.

Again, if Moscow were mystery Babylon it must have killed the prophets as both Jesus and John stated very clearly.

I've asked you to provide a list several times now. Can you produce a list of prophets killed by Moscow?

We both know that's impossible. So, based on Scripture, the evidence, logic, and common sense, Moscow is not, was not, and will never be mystery Babylon!

 

[interpreter]

Since John was writing about the imminent judgment on Jerusalem he, by necessity, wrote Revelation prior to AD 70. Again, it is not possible that her judgment came shortly after AD 95 because she had already been left desolate as Jesus prophesied.

It is not possible that the Revelation was written before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD because several of the Asian churches the Revelation is addressed to did not exist then. Jesus had to wait until 95 AD or so when they existed because they form the "starguide" of the first vision and provide 21 vectors that guide the reader to all the good things foretold.

I don't know if you're avoiding the question, don't have an answer, or you're just ignoring it hoping it goes away.

Again, if Moscow were mystery Babylon it must have killed the prophets as both Jesus and John stated very clearly.

I've asked you to provide a list several times now. Can you produce a list of prophets killed by Moscow?

We both know that's impossible. So, based on Scripture, the evidence, logic, and common sense, Moscow is not, was not, and will never be mystery Babylon!

"prophets" can also refer to Christian holy men, or priests. Moscow killed many of them.

Can you name the many seas that Jerusalem sit on?

Or name the many nations and tongues that Jerusalem ruled over?

 

[A New World]

It is not possible that the Revelation was written before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD because several of the Asian churches the Revelation is addressed to did not exist then.

Your opinion represents a common, but erroneous view. The following is an excerpt from an article I recently read:

The Seven Churches in Asia

John wrote Revelation to a specific group of churches in Asia (Revelation 1:4). The importance of this statement cannot be overlooked (even though it has been by many scholars). There is only one small window of time in which there were only seven churches in Asia. The early AD 60's. The apostle Paul established nine churches in that area, but only seven were addressed in Revelation. The reason for this is that the cities of Colosse, Hierapolis, and Laodicea, were all destroyed by an earthquake around AD 61. Laodicea was rebuilt soon afterwards, but the other two cities were not. This left only seven churches in Asia during the five years just prior to the beginning of the Roman/Jewish war.

Of particular importance is the message to the church of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7-13). In verse's 10 and 11, Christ told John to inform them that an "hour of temptation" was "about to come upon all the world," i.e., the Roman Empire. Christ then told them that He was coming quickly and that they should hold fast. The reason this is important (besides the fact that this was directed to an actual church in the first century) is that the first persecution of Christians took place under Nero Caesar in AD 64. Therefore, Revelation must have been written before that time.

Jesus had to wait until 95 AD or so when they existed because they form the "starguide" of the first vision and provide 21 vectors that guide the reader to all the good things foretold.

Revelation was written to specific audiences in a specific time for a specific reason. The wild speculation that's developed since has nothing to do with Scripture. John was writing about the judgment of the harlot, Old Covenant Israel. This was posited as an imminent event. That generation living in the last days had no concept of the "science fiction" of modern prognosticators. Revelation is certainly not a starguide and has nothing to do with vectors.

"prophets" can also refer to Christian holy men, or priests. Moscow killed many of them.

Your personal investment in the idea that Moscow was the subject of Revelation seems to have caused you to avoid both common sense and logic. Jesus pronounced judgment on Israel for killing the prophets, and said it would come upon that generation. The blood of the prophets was found in mystery Babylon. Jerusalem was destroyed just as Jesus prophesied, during that generation. Not one stone was left upon another of the buildings of the temple.

Again, Scripture doesn't even hint at the idea that Moscow killed the prophets. You have to change the meaning of prophet to even try to make your opinion fit the context. But, the context of all of Scripture, including both Jesus and John, was Israel and her covenants with God. First century Jerusalem was the city that represented that covenant.

Can you name the many seas that Jerusalem sit on?

Or name the many nations and tongues that Jerusalem ruled over?

Jerusalem and the temple were established as God's dwelling place among men. Jerusalem was to be a city built on a hill providing light to the nations. So, spiritually she ruled over people, multitudes, nations and tongues, though she obviously failed miserably at that task.

John gave the meaning of the symbolical term "many waters." It had nothing to do with five seas.

 

[interpreter]

Your opinion represents a common, but erroneous view. The following is an excerpt from an article I recently read:

The Seven Churches in Asia

John wrote Revelation to a specific group of churches in Asia (Revelation 1:4). The importance of this statement cannot be overlooked (even though it has been by many scholars). There is only one small window of time in which there were only seven churches in Asia. The early AD 60's. The apostle Paul established nine churches in that area, but only seven were addressed in Revelation. The reason for this is that the cities of Colosse, Hierapolis, and Laodicea, were all destroyed by an earthquake around AD 61. Laodicea was rebuilt soon afterwards, but the other two cities were not. This left only seven churches in Asia during the five years just prior to the beginning of the Roman/Jewish war.

Of particular importance is the message to the church of Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7-13). In verse's 10 and 11, Christ told John to inform them that an "hour of temptation" was "about to come upon all the world," i.e., the Roman Empire. Christ then told them that He was coming quickly and that they should hold fast. The reason this is important (besides the fact that this was directed to an actual church in the first century) is that the first persecution of Christians took place under Nero Caesar in AD 64. Therefore, Revelation must have been written before that time.



Revelation was written to specific audiences in a specific time for a specific reason. The wild speculation that's developed since has nothing to do with Scripture. John was writing about the judgment of the harlot, Old Covenant Israel. This was posited as an imminent event. That generation living in the last days had no concept of the "science fiction" of modern prognosticators. Revelation is certainly not a starguide and has nothing to do with vectors.



Your personal investment in the idea that Moscow was the subject of Revelation seems to have caused you to avoid both common sense and logic. Jesus pronounced judgment on Israel for killing the prophets, and said it would come upon that generation. The blood of the prophets was found in mystery Babylon. Jerusalem was destroyed just as Jesus prophesied, during that generation. Not one stone was left upon another of the buildings of the temple.

Again, Scripture doesn't even hint at the idea that Moscow killed the prophets. You have to change the meaning of prophet to even try to make your opinion fit the context. But, the context of all of Scripture, including both Jesus and John, was Israel and her covenants with God. First century Jerusalem was the city that represented that covenant.



Jerusalem and the temple were established as God's dwelling place among men. Jerusalem was to be a city built on a hill providing light to the nations. So, spiritually she ruled over people, multitudes, nations and tongues, though she obviously failed miserably at that task.

John gave the meaning of the symbolical term "many waters." It had nothing to do with five seas.

John didn't say there were only 7 churches in Asia. The 7 churches selected are called messengers and stars and were selected because of their location. Their coordinates serve as messengers that point the reader to all the good things foretold (through vectors, as of a starguide), and (2)through 7 of the vectors, they redirect the 7 letters of chapters 2 and 3 to the 7 Church assemblies of the future called golden lampstands that would soon be established to take the light of the Gospel to the 7 parts of the world. Several of the seven stars were not in place until the end of the first century.

"Many waters," like most things in the Revelation, has more than one meaning, typically a literal meaning and one or more symbolic meanings. The many waters the great harlot sits on literally signifies the 5 seas that Moscow sits on, and symbolically refers to the many nations and tongues that Soviet-era Moscow ruled over.

 

[A New World]

John didn't say there were only 7 churches in Asia. The 7 churches selected are called messengers and stars and were selected because of their location. Their coordinates serve as messengers that point the reader to all the good things foretold (through vectors, as of a starguide), and (2)through 7 of the vectors, they redirect the 7 letters of chapters 2 and 3 to the 7 Church assemblies of the future called golden lampstands that would soon be established to take the light of the Gospel to the 7 parts of the world. Several of the seven stars were not in place until the end of the first century.

"Many waters," like most things in the Revelation, has more than one meaning, typically a literal meaning and one or more symbolic meanings. The many waters the great harlot sits on literally signifies the 5 seas that Moscow sits on, and symbolically refers to the many nations and tongues that Soviet-era Moscow ruled over.

The main problem with your theory is it's not able to be tested by Scripture. Your speculation goes beyond the biblical context of Israel and her covenants. And, your idea doesn't fit the imminent time frame expressed throughout Revelation.

Since the evidence doesn't fit your theory it must be rejected. Mystery Babylon of Revelation was first century Old Covenant Israel represented by Jerusalem. When her destruction came it was proof that the Mosaic age had ended. Since that time the church alone has been God's dwelling place on earth.

 

[interpreter]

The main problem with your theory is it's not able to be tested by Scripture. Your speculation goes beyond the biblical context of Israel and her covenants. And, your idea doesn't fit the imminent time frame expressed throughout Revelation.

Since the evidence doesn't fit your theory it must be rejected. Mystery Babylon of Revelation was first century Old Covenant Israel represented by Jerusalem. When her destruction came it was proof that the Mosaic age had ended. Since that time the church alone has been God's dwelling place on earth.

The first seal was opened imminently, in 312 AD when the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds. The great harlot appears much later, in the great tribulation of WW II, and in the beginning is aligned with the antichrist (which was Hitler).

 

[donfish06]

Mystery Babylon

I think Scripture identifies the four kingdoms that would reign over Israel until the time of the end. Daniel chapter two lists the four as 1. Gold=Babylon, 2. Silver=Medes & Persians, 3. Bronze=Greece, 4. Iron/Iron & Clay=Rome.

The forth kingdom would be in power at the time of the end of Daniel's people, Old Covenant Israel.

If you read further, the 4th Kingdom will reign until Christ's return:

Dan 7:19-22 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; (20) And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. (21) I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; (22) Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.​

You correctly identified the 4th kingdom as Rome. Remember that the 4th kingdom started off as iron, and ended as clay mixed with iron. Also keep in mind that the antichrist would receive a "deadly blow" from which it would recover. The two legs of iron represents Empirical Rome, as it's strength was in its army. The army was split in 2 divisions, east & west (left & right leg). But as the Roman Empire fell Papal Rome grew, represented by the clay mixed with Iron. The clay represents a church, as He is the Potter and we are the clay. But this clay (church) was still mixed with pagan Rome. This is clearly the Catholic Church. The worship of Mary is pagan. Praying to dead saints is pagan. The Catholic church has admitted to killing over 68 million protestants. The Catholic church would kill you if you tried to read the Bible for yourself. The Catholic church convinced its people that they had to pay the church for the forgiveness of sins... The Vatican is the city that sits on 7 hills (rev). The Pope (vicarius filii dei) is the name which has the number 666 (take the roman numerals associated with the letters in the title (which appears on the popes triple crown, oh, and it means "instead of Christ" (antichrist!))

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

​

The antichrist is a spirit. The spirit of the antichrist was on Babylon, then Media/Persia, then Greece, then it was upon Rome and now in the Vatican. I am NOT saying that Catholics are antichrist. What I AM saying is that the Catholic System is antichrist. If a person's loyalty is to the "church" and not to "Jesus", then they are apart of the antichrist system.

​

But Let me make it even more clear!

Rev 12:3-4 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. (4) And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.​

Every time in scriptural prophecy a beast represents a power. The red dragon is the power that satan uses. The scriptures clearly state that the dragon (satan) wanted to kill Jesus as soon as he was born. Let's think a minute on who it was that tried to do this? It was Herod, who was king under ROMAN control.

In Revelation 17:1-6, 9,15,18, we read THE CLUES:

1 - And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters:

2 - With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 - So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a WOMAN sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 - And the WOMAN was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 - And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6 - And I saw the WOMAN drunken with the blood of the saints,and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

9 - And here is the MIND which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the WOMAN sitteth.

15 - And he saith unto me, The WATERS which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

18 - And the WOMAN which thou sawest is that GREAT CITY, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Now, let’s accumulate the CLUES listed in the above Scriptures and ask ourselves a question:

WHICH RELIGIOUS SYSTEM---

a. Controls multitudes, nations and tongues?
b. Has seduced kings and inhabitants of the earth?
c. Is arrayed in purple and scarlet?
d. Is decked with silver and gold?,
e. Is drunk with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus?
f. Sits upon seven mountains?
g. Is a great city reigning over kings?

Unless the reader is willfully ignorant it becomes obvious that the religious system herein described has to be the great CHURCH of ROME; the so-called “eternal city of seven hills”.

Let’s see further how The Vatican in Rome today resembles this Mystery Babylon.

a. Rome controls multitudes, nations and tongues.
No other authority on earth has ever interacted with the world and it’s political systems more than the Vatican. The International Monetary Fund and the World Bank in itself is owned and controlled by the Vatican.

b. Rome has seduced kings and inhabitants of the earth.
None other than the Vatican is involved in the ecumenical movement of compromise known today as religious tolerance and unity. The world has seen Pope John Paul-11 going to Israel in year 2000, meeting with Arafat, and even fellowshipping with communist leaders for world unity.

Today the call is for “humanity” and not for Christ. The call is for “Unity” and not separation from other world’s religions. The Catholic Church has even declared that Islam is an Abrahamic faith and Muslims are our brothers. Today the Catholic Church is seen as a friend to Islam. The Pope was even seen kissing the Quran for the whole world to witness.

c.d. The Vatican is arrayed in purple and scarlet, and is decked with silver and gold.
Who else but the cardinals and the archbishops of the Catholic Church dress-up in purple and scarlet, the colors of so-called “royalty”. The golden cup is exactly what the Pope uses in the celebration of the “mass”.

e. Rome Is drunk with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
As recorded in history, from the time of St. Augustine in 300 AD until AD 1850, 68 million Protestants have been killed by the Roman Catholic Church just because of disagreeing with their doctrine.

The Great Massacre of Ireland was one of the worst mass murders done by the Roman Church ever recorded in history. Millions of Christians were burnt at stake, fed to the lions, and tortured to death by the Catholic Church, which included Joan of Arc and St. Patrick - a “cup of abominations” indeed that deserves the Biblical verses mentioned in Revelation17:6 “drunken of the blood of the saints and the martyrs of Jesus”.

Don’t be confused to start thinking that the Church of Rome has repented of her slaughter of the saints because she is attempting to unite with the Protestants today by making her creeds line-up with Protestant creeds. Not once has she ever apologized of her murders. No matter how sweet and mellow she appears at this particular time, she will yet rise up to kill, for murder lies in her evil and unrepentant heart. Just wait when the One World religion takes place. Those who will not bow down to the Pope will be persecuted, tortured, and killed again.

f. Rome sits upon seven mountains.
Rome is popularly known to the world as the “City of Seven Hills”. Yes, Rome sits upon literal seven hills. In fact, Rome is an autonomous nation within the nation of Italy and it is being ruled by the Pope as its sovereign president and head of state.

g. Rome Is a great city reigning over kings.​

Please find me ANY other system that fits ALL the prophecies regarding the Great harlot than Rome/Catholocism!

​

 

[A New World]

WHICH RELIGIOUS SYSTEM---

a. Controls multitudes, nations and tongues?
b. Has seduced kings and inhabitants of the earth?
c. Is arrayed in purple and scarlet?
d. Is decked with silver and gold?,
e. Is drunk with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus?
f. Sits upon seven mountains?
g. Is a great city reigning over kings?

The great city was identified as Jerusalem, the city where the Lord was slain and as mystery Babylon (Rev. 11:8; 17:18; 18:10).

Old Covenant Israel was represented by Jerusalem. She was in covenant with God. She was in a marriage relationship with Him. She had played the role of the harlot many times since she entered into the marriage covenant at Mt. Sinai.

It was in the role of the harlot that she seduced foreign kings. Her rulers wore purple and scarlet. Her temple was adorned with silver and gold. She was the only nation that was declared guilty for killing the prophets.

I've given the following evidence many times in this thread which I believe is conclusive:

Jesus pronounced judgment on first century Jerusalem:

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples,

Matthew 23:2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat."

Matthew 23:29 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous,

Matthew 23:31 "Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.

Matthew 23:32 "Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt."

Matthew 23:34 "Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,

Matthew 23:35 "that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Matthew 23:36 "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

Matthew 23:38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate"

Luke 13:33 "Nevertheless I must journey today, tomorrow, and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem.



John prophesied judgment on mystery Babylon:

Revelation 17:1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters,

Revelation 17:5 And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Revelation 17:6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

Revelation 17:18 "And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth."

Revelation 18:10 "standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.'

Revelation 18:18 "and cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, 'What is like this great city?'

Revelation 18:19 "They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.'

Revelation 18:24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth."



Jesus pronounced judgment on the first century rulers of Israel for killing the prophets. John said the blood of the prophets was found in mystery Babylon. Therefore, Jerusalem was mystery Babylon.

Notice the exact parallels:

Jesus said regarding first century Jerusalem, "I send you prophets...you will kill...it cannot be that a prophet should perish outside Jerusalem...on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth...your house is left to you desolate."

John wrote regarding mystery Babylon, "In her was found the blood of the prophets...and of all who were slain on the earth...she is made desolate."

The only religious system the Lord found guilty of killing the prophets was Jerusalem. She was judged for her guilt in the years leading up to and including AD 70.

The Roman church does not fit any of the criteria set forth by either Jesus or John.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The prophecy of Daniel was fulfilled at the time of Christ, the Prophecy of Revelation is another prophecy.

 

[interpreter]

If you read further, the 4th Kingdom will reign until Christ's return:

Dan 7:19-22 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; (20) And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. (21) I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; (22) Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.​

You correctly identified the 4th kingdom as Rome. Remember that the 4th kingdom started off as iron, and ended as clay mixed with iron. Also keep in mind that the antichrist would receive a "deadly blow" from which it would recover. The two legs of iron represents Empirical Rome, as it's strength was in its army. The army was split in 2 divisions, east & west (left & right leg). But as the Roman Empire fell Papal Rome grew, represented by the clay mixed with Iron. The clay represents a church, as He is the Potter and we are the clay. But this clay (church) was still mixed with pagan Rome. This is clearly the Catholic Church. The worship of Mary is pagan. Praying to dead saints is pagan. The Catholic church has admitted to killing over 68 million protestants. The Catholic church would kill you if you tried to read the Bible for yourself. The Catholic church convinced its people that they had to pay the church for the forgiveness of sins... The Vatican is the city that sits on 7 hills (rev). The Pope (vicarius filii dei) is the name which has the number 666 (take the roman numerals associated with the letters in the title (which appears on the popes triple crown, oh, and it means "instead of Christ" (antichrist!))

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

​

The antichrist is a spirit. The spirit of the antichrist was on Babylon, then Media/Persia, then Greece, then it was upon Rome and now in the Vatican. I am NOT saying that Catholics are antichrist. What I AM saying is that the Catholic System is antichrist. If a person's loyalty is to the "church" and not to "Jesus", then they are apart of the antichrist system.

​

But Let me make it even more clear!

Rev 12:3-4 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. (4) And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.​

Every time in scriptural prophecy a beast represents a power. The red dragon is the power that satan uses. The scriptures clearly state that the dragon (satan) wanted to kill Jesus as soon as he was born. Let's think a minute on who it was that tried to do this? It was Herod, who was king under ROMAN control.

In Revelation 17:1-6, 9,15,18, we read THE CLUES:

1 - And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters:

2 - With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 - So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a WOMAN sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 - And the WOMAN was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 - And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6 - And I saw the WOMAN drunken with the blood of the saints,and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

9 - And here is the MIND which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the WOMAN sitteth.

15 - And he saith unto me, The WATERS which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

18 - And the WOMAN which thou sawest is that GREAT CITY, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Now, let’s accumulate the CLUES listed in the above Scriptures and ask ourselves a question:

WHICH RELIGIOUS SYSTEM---

a. Controls multitudes, nations and tongues?
b. Has seduced kings and inhabitants of the earth?
c. Is arrayed in purple and scarlet?
d. Is decked with silver and gold?,
e. Is drunk with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus?
f. Sits upon seven mountains?
g. Is a great city reigning over kings?

Unless the reader is willfully ignorant it becomes obvious that the religious system herein described has to be the great CHURCH of ROME; the so-called “eternal city of seven hills”.

Let’s see further how The Vatican in Rome today resembles this Mystery Babylon.

a. Rome controls multitudes, nations and tongues.
No other authority on earth has ever interacted with the world and it’s political systems more than the Vatican. The International Monetary Fund and the World Bank in itself is owned and controlled by the Vatican.

b. Rome has seduced kings and inhabitants of the earth.
None other than the Vatican is involved in the ecumenical movement of compromise known today as religious tolerance and unity. The world has seen Pope John Paul-11 going to Israel in year 2000, meeting with Arafat, and even fellowshipping with communist leaders for world unity.

Today the call is for “humanity” and not for Christ. The call is for “Unity” and not separation from other world’s religions. The Catholic Church has even declared that Islam is an Abrahamic faith and Muslims are our brothers. Today the Catholic Church is seen as a friend to Islam. The Pope was even seen kissing the Quran for the whole world to witness.

c.d. The Vatican is arrayed in purple and scarlet, and is decked with silver and gold.
Who else but the cardinals and the archbishops of the Catholic Church dress-up in purple and scarlet, the colors of so-called “royalty”. The golden cup is exactly what the Pope uses in the celebration of the “mass”.

e. Rome Is drunk with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
As recorded in history, from the time of St. Augustine in 300 AD until AD 1850, 68 million Protestants have been killed by the Roman Catholic Church just because of disagreeing with their doctrine.

The Great Massacre of Ireland was one of the worst mass murders done by the Roman Church ever recorded in history. Millions of Christians were burnt at stake, fed to the lions, and tortured to death by the Catholic Church, which included Joan of Arc and St. Patrick - a “cup of abominations” indeed that deserves the Biblical verses mentioned in Revelation17:6 “drunken of the blood of the saints and the martyrs of Jesus”.

Don’t be confused to start thinking that the Church of Rome has repented of her slaughter of the saints because she is attempting to unite with the Protestants today by making her creeds line-up with Protestant creeds. Not once has she ever apologized of her murders. No matter how sweet and mellow she appears at this particular time, she will yet rise up to kill, for murder lies in her evil and unrepentant heart. Just wait when the One World religion takes place. Those who will not bow down to the Pope will be persecuted, tortured, and killed again.

f. Rome sits upon seven mountains.
Rome is popularly known to the world as the “City of Seven Hills”. Yes, Rome sits upon literal seven hills. In fact, Rome is an autonomous nation within the nation of Italy and it is being ruled by the Pope as its sovereign president and head of state.

g. Rome Is a great city reigning over kings.​

Please find me ANY other system that fits ALL the prophecies regarding the Great harlot than Rome/Catholocism!

​

Only Moscow fits all the prophesies regarding the great harlot. For example, Moscow (unlike Rome) sits on many waters (the Moscow Canal connects 5 seas). And, at the beginning of the great tribulation known as WW II, Moscow was briefly aligned with Hitler the antichrist, until Hitler turned on her.
The Roman Catholic Church is one of the seven golden lampstands of the first vision, which are the seven regional Churches, or Patriarchates, that would soon be established by the first horseman to give light to the seven parts of the earth.

 

[donfish06]

Only Moscow fits all the prophesies regarding the great harlot. For example, Moscow (unlike Rome) sits on many waters (the Moscow Canal connects 5 seas). And, at the beginning of the great tribulation known as WW II, Moscow was briefly aligned with Hitler the antichrist, until Hitler turned on her.
The Roman Catholic Church is one of the seven golden lampstands of the first vision, which are the seven regional Churches, or Patriarchates, that would soon be established by the first horseman to give light to the seven parts of the earth.

Are you kidding? I just listed numerous prophecies that the Catholic Church fulfills and you have 2 for Rome?

The bible interprets itself saying that the many waters represents multitudes of people. The Catholic Church is the largest Christian organization.

It has to be so close to the truth that it would deceive the very elect if it were possible. How could Moscow or Jerusalem deceive Christians who believe in Christ?! No Christian will be deceived by someone who denies Christ

 

[A New World]

Are you kidding? I just listed numerous prophecies that the Catholic Church fulfills and you have 2 for Rome?

The bible interprets itself saying that the many waters represents multitudes of people. The Catholic Church is the largest Christian organization.

It has to be so close to the truth that it would deceive the very elect if it were possible. How could Moscow or Jerusalem deceive Christians who believe in Christ?! No Christian will be deceived by someone who denies Christ

Neither Moscow or the RCC was ever declared guilty of killing the prophets. Therefore they are eliminated as candidates for mystery Babylon.

Jesus pronounced judgment on first century Jerusalem for killing the prophets. John prophesied that the blood of the prophets was found in mystery Babylon. He also emphatically wrote multiple times that the time of the events of Revelation was near.

Since both Jesus and John identified first century Jerusalem as the harlot, mystery Babylon, there is no reason to look beyond the first century.

 

[donfish06]

Neither Moscow or the RCC was ever declared guilty of killing the prophets. Therefore they are eliminated as candidates for mystery Babylon.

Jesus pronounced judgment on first century Jerusalem for killing the prophets. John prophesied that the blood of the prophets was found in mystery Babylon. He also emphatically wrote multiple times that the time of the events of Revelation was near.

Since both Jesus and John identified first century Jerusalem as the harlot, mystery Babylon, there is no reason to look beyond the first century.

Oh, okay. So RCC fulfills a MULTITUDE of prophecies, except 1, and Jerusalem doesnt fulfill any, except 1 and thats enough for you! haha.

 

[A New World]

Oh, okay. So RCC fulfills a MULTITUDE of prophecies, except 1, and Jerusalem doesnt fulfill any, except 1 and thats enough for you! haha.

First century Jerusalem not only fits all the prophecies of John and the Words of Jesus, it also fits the time frame. Jesus said all these things would occur in that generation. John said all these things must shortly take place, and the time was near.

Your city and your timing is off!

First century Jerusalem was mystery Babylon!

 

[A New World]

You correctly identified the 4th kingdom as Rome. Remember that the 4th kingdom started off as iron, and ended as clay mixed with iron. Also keep in mind that the antichrist would receive a "deadly blow" from which it would recover. The two legs of iron represents Empirical Rome, as it's strength was in its army. The army was split in 2 divisions, east & west (left & right leg). But as the Roman Empire fell Papal Rome grew, represented by the clay mixed with Iron.

The forth kingdom, the Roman Empire, would be Daniel's final kingdom. It would be during this reign that the power of the holy people would be completely shattered (Dan. 12:7). This would take place at the end of the Old Covenant age. The first century AD arrival of Messiah signaled the last days and therefore the time of the end of Daniel's people.

Daniel's book was to remain sealed until the time of the end. Jesus removed the seal and revealed to His disciples that they would witness the events foretold by Daniel (Mt. 24:15). He told them their generation would not pass away until all was fulfilled (Mt. 24:34).

We know Daniel's forth kingdom was in power during the time of Israel's terminal generation. So, what was the iron mixed with clay? The iron of course was the Roman Empire as you stated.

I believe the meaning of the clay is found in the Old Testament:
Jeremiah 18:4-6 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter; so he made it again into another vessel, as it seemed good to the potter to make. Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: "O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter?" says the LORD. "Look, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel!

There were two forces joined together to persecute and kill the first century believers, Rome and unbelieving Old Covenant Israel! The ten toes may represent the ten northern tribes that were mingled with and among the nations, the Roman Empire.

Daniel wrote:
Daniel 2:34 "You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces."

I think it's a mistake to say the Roman Empire must have fallen for this prophecy to realize fulfillment.

I believe Scripture is focused on the covenants and the covenant people.

Matthew 21:42-44 Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures: 'The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone. This was the LORD's doing, And it is marvelous in our eyes'? "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. "And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder."

The grip of this combined kingdom that held God's true people in bondage in the first century was about to be released. When God established His church, true spiritual Israel, under the New Covenant He effectively ended any and every earthly control of His people. This New Covenant kingdom will never end.

 

[Isaacsname]

Mystery Babylon ( Confusion )

~ Clothed in " fine linen ",......fine linen,... just like....the veil in the temple, the walls of the Tabernacle, and King David's robes were made from " fine linen " ( combined with goat's hair, iirc )

We spell " linen " by inserting the 6th letter of the Hebrew alphabet ( Vav ) in between the first and last letters in the very first verse of the Bible, where we find that the first and last letters in Genesis also represent Jesus ( the upright and victorious Tzaddik in the first sofit Tsadde in " earth ", and the normally written rabbati Beyt in " bereshit " ( in the beginning )

Strong's Hebrew # 948 - בּוּץ ( Butz ) - linen

Fascinating topic, indeed

 

[Godislove94]

interesting

do you think it might be a bit of both?

like, the many of the Psalms speak of King David
but you can also apply them to Jesus

so maybe this Mystery Babylon, can be apostate Israel
but that parts of this could apply to the character/actions of a wicked empire near the end of time?

I do not think the USA or modern Israel is this Mystery Babylon
I think it will rise up near the End Times and it will be so horrible, any Christian, who is being led by the Spirit, will be able to see it
like there will not even be debate around Christians

interesting

do you think it might be a bit of both?

like, the many of the Psalms speak of King David
but you can also apply them to Jesus

so maybe this Mystery Babylon, can be apostate Israel
but that parts of this could apply to the character/actions of a wicked empire near the end of time?

I do not think the USA or modern Israel is this Mystery Babylon
I think it will rise up near the End Times and it will be so horrible, any Christian, who is being led by the Spirit, will be able to see it
like there will not even be debate around Christians

I believe this Mystery Babylon spoken of in the Scriptures is either Milit

interesting

do you think it might be a bit of both?

like, the many of the Psalms speak of King David
but you can also apply them to Jesus

so maybe this Mystery Babylon, can be apostate Israel
but that parts of this could apply to the character/actions of a wicked empire near the end of time?

I do not think the USA or modern Israel is this Mystery Babylon
I think it will rise up near the End Times and it will be so horrible, any Christian, who is being led by the Spirit, will be able to see it
like there will not even be debate around Christians

This is an interest of mine. I believe that empire will be militant Islamic Fundamentalism or a severely apostate Christian church that is just like the world which persecuted its own followers who try to adhere to Biblical Christianity rather than the watered down lukewarm version that we see coming up very quickly in some areas. Look at how much power ISIS and other Islamic groups have grown/been able to recruit people, and look at the greedy mega churches too that aim to worm their way into government for political and monetary gain.