My Unoffensive Challenge

[AV1611VET]

Have you read the Jewish Believers websites

No, I haven't.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But Jesus didn't come along and say, "God let you have bondsmen because you were hard, now I say cut it out". So when did it stop condoning slavery? The OT very clearly condones it.

Even in the NT , slavery was not forbidden.
Remember though it was regulated - the slave owners have instructions to treat the slaves well, so that the condition of slaves is BETTER than if they were not slaves (often it meant they were able to have a place to stay and food to eat and clothes).
It is NOT AT ALL like slavery in today's world everywhere.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

God has a perfect will, and He has a permissive will.

Is it notarized ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Shabbat Shalom in Y'HSUA !

No, I haven't.

 

[Moral Orel]

The Old Testament regulates [slavery]; just as it regulates divorce.

The attitude is: if you're going to do it, do it this way.

Psalm 106:15 And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul.

God has a perfect will, and He has a permissive will.

In order to regulate something, you have to condone it first. I didn't say "encourage" or "approve".

 

[Paul Finch]

No.

In the same sense I don't think It condones divorce, even though It says:

Deuteronomy 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

And you wonder why people don't take you seriously when you can not be trusted to say or do the right thing, you go which ever way the wind blows.
In the UK you would be called two faced or double headed.

 

[Moral Orel]

Even in the NT , slavery was not forbidden.

It is NOT AT ALL like slavery in today's world everywhere.

These are both true. I'll even go so far to say that their slavery wasn't the same kind of slavery as America's checkered past, not just the slavery that exists today. However...

Remember though it was regulated - the slave owners have instructions to treat the slaves well, so that the condition of slaves is BETTER than if they were not slaves (often it meant they were able to have a place to stay and food to eat and clothes).

This is not true. They were allowed to beat their slaves pretty savagely. And you can pay employees well enough that they have food to eat and clothes to wear and shelter to sleep under without treating them like property. So slavery isn't the lesser of two evils between owning people and leaving them to die in the streets.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

They were allowed to beat their slaves pretty savagely.

Who was allowed to ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So slavery isn't the lesser of two evils between owning people and leaving them to die in the streets.

I still think it is better not to let them to die in the streets.

 

[Moral Orel]

Who was allowed to ?

The Israelites. Exodus 21:20-21
NT said to treat them better than that in Ephesians 6:9, though, I'll give you that.

I still think it is better not to let them to die in the streets.

And it's even better to hire them and pay them a respectable wage, which was always an option. No need to even consider slavery.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

They were allowed to beat their slaves pretty savagely.

The Israelites. Exodus 21:20-21

Look again:
Exodus 21:20
KJ21
“And if a man smite his servant or his maid with a rod, and he die under his hand, he shall be surely punished.
ASV
And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall surely be punished.
AMP
“If a man strikes his male or his female servant with a staff and the servant dies at his hand, he must be punished.
AMPC
And if a man strikes his servant or his maid with a rod and he [or she] dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished.
BRG
¶ And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
CEB
When a slave owner hits a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner should be punished.
CJB
(ii) “If a person beats his male or female slave with a stick so severely that he dies, he is to be punished;
CEV
Death is the punishment for beating to death any of your slaves.
DARBY
And if a man strike his bondman or his handmaid with a staff, and he die under his hand, he shall certainly be avenged.
DRA
He that striketh his bondman or bondwoman with a rod, and they die under his hands, shall be guilty of the crime.
ERV
“Sometimes people beat their slaves. If the slave dies after being beaten, the killer must be punished.
ESV
“When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged.
ESVUK
“When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged.
EXB
“If a man ·beats [strikes] his male or female slave with a ·stick [rod], and the slave dies on the spot, the owner must be punished.
GNV
¶ And if a man smite his servant, or his maid with a rod, and he die under his hand, he shall be surely punished.
GW
“Whenever an owner hits his male or female slave with a stick so that the slave dies from the beating, the owner must be punished.
GNT
“If a slave owner takes a stick and beats his slave, whether male or female, and the slave dies on the spot, the owner is to be punished.
HCSB
“When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod, and the slave dies under his abuse, the owner must be punished.
ICB
“A man might beat his male or female slave with a stick. And the slave might die on the spot. Then the owner must be punished.
ISV
“If a man strikes his male or female servant with a stick and he or she dies as a direct result, the master must be punished.
JUB
And if a man smites his slave or his maid with a rod and he dies under his hand, he shall be surely punished.
KJV
And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
AKJV
And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
LEB
And if a man strikes his male slave or his female slave with the rod and he dies under his hand, he will surely be avenged.
TLB
“If a man beats his slave to death—whether the slave is male or female—that man shall surely be punished.
MSG
“If a slave owner hits a slave, male or female, with a stick and the slave dies on the spot, the slave must be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he’s not to be avenged—the slave is the owner’s property.
MEV
If a man strikes his male servant or his female servant with a rod so that he or she dies at his hand, then he shall surely be punished.
NOG
“Whenever an owner hits his male or female slave with a stick so that the slave dies from the beating, the owner must be punished.
NABRE
When someone strikes his male or female slave with a rod so that the slave dies under his hand, the act shall certainly be avenged.
NASB
“If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished.
NCV
“If a man beats his male or female slave with a stick, and the slave dies on the spot, the owner must be punished.
NET
“If a man strikes his male servant or his female servant with a staff so that he or she dies as a result of the blow, he will surely be punished.
NIRV
“Suppose a person beats their male or female slave to death with a club. That person must be punished.
NIV
“Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result,
NIVUK
‘Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result,
NKJV
“And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished.
NLV
“When a man hits his male or female servant with a stick so that he or she dies, he will be punished.
NLT
“If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished.
NRSV
When a slaveowner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished.
NRSVA
When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished.
NRSVACE
When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished.
NRSVCE
When a slaveowner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished.
OJB
And if an ish strikes his eved, or his amah, with a shevet (rod), and he die under his yad; he shall be surely avenged.
RSV
“When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.
RSVCE
“When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished.
TLV
“If a man strikes his male or female servant with a staff, who dies by his hand, he must surely be punished.
VOICE
If a person hits his male or female slave with a rod, and the slave dies because of the blow, then that person must be punished.
WEB
“If a man strikes his servant or his maid with a rod, and he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished.
WYC
He that smiteth his servant, or handmaid, with a rod, and they be dead in his hands, he shall be guilty of the crime, or hideous trespass. (He who striketh his slave, or his slave-girl, with a rod, and they die by his hands, he shall be guilty of a crime, or of a hideous trespass.)
YLT
`And when a man smiteth his man-servant or his handmaid, with a rod, and he hath died under his hand -- he is certainly avenged;

 

[Moral Orel]

Look again:

Look again at the next verse that I cited.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And it's even better to hire them and pay them a respectable wage, which was always an option. No need to even consider slavery.

A few points may be in order here:
(1) There are more slaves today than when slavery was legal.
(2) The corporations don't care for the slaves at all - they only care about profit.
(3) The government(s) mostly are the same, if they care about anything at all. Since corporations are more powerful than government(s) today,
it may be hard to tell.
(4) A LOT of people CANNOT handle their money well enough at all to survive without outside assistance today, whether because of mental illness, or lack of training. They would do MUCH BETTER as a slave of someone who properly cared for them , as in like a sheep who has a shepherd to care for it VS a sheep who is helpless with matted wool, stuck in brambles, lost in a ravine, etc etc etc
(5) Many working people today cannot make ends meet. Even so-called 2 income families. (with high income) Since they were never trained properly , OR , they fell for the temptations of the world instead of following their training if they were trained well.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Look again at the next verse that I cited.

why?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

See: (notice this doesn't change anything) :
Exodus 21:21
KJ21
Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his money.
ASV
Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
AMP
If, however, the servant survives for a day or two, the offender shall not be punished, for the [injured] servant is his own property.
AMPC
But if the servant lives on for a day or two, the offender shall not be punished, for he [has injured] his own property.
BRG
Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
CEB
But if the slave gets up after a day or two, the slave owner shouldn’t be punished because the slave is the owner’s property.
CJB
except that if the slave lives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his property.
CEV
However, if the slave lives a few days after the beating, you are not to be punished. After all, you have already lost the services of that slave who was your property.
DARBY
Only, if he continue [to live] a day or two days, he shall not be avenged; for he is his money.
DRA
But if the party remain alive a day or two, he shall not be subject to the punishment, because it is his money.
ERV
But if the slave gets up after a few days, then the master will not be punished. That is because someone paid their money for the slave, and the slave belongs to them.
ESV
But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.
ESVUK
But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.
EXB
But if the slave gets well after a day or two, the owner will not be punished since the slave belongs to him.
GNV
But if he continue a day or two days, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
GW
But if the slave gets up in a day or two, the owner must not be punished. The slave is his property.
GNT
But if the slave does not die for a day or two, the master is not to be punished. The loss of his property is punishment enough.
HCSB
However, if the slave can stand up after a day or two, the owner should not be punished because he is his owner’s property.
ICB
But the slave might get well after a day or two. Then that owner will not be punished since the slave belongs to him.
ISV
But if the servant survives a day or two, the master is not to be punished because the servant is his property.
JUB
Notwithstanding, if he continues a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his money.
KJV
Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
AKJV
Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
LEB
Yet if he survives a day or two days, he will not be avenged, because he is his money.
TLB
However, if the slave does not die for a couple of days, then the man shall not be punished—for the slave is his property.
MSG
“If a slave owner hits a slave, male or female, with a stick and the slave dies on the spot, the slave must be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he’s not to be avenged—the slave is the owner’s property.
MEV
Nevertheless, if he survives for a day or two, then he shall not be punished, for it is his money.
NOG
But if the slave gets up in a day or two, the owner must not be punished. The slave is his property.
NABRE
If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.
NASB
If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.
NCV
But if the slave gets well after a day or two, the owner will not be punished since the slave belongs to him.
NET
However, if the injured servant survives one or two days, the owner will not be punished, for he has suffered the loss.
NIRV
But they will not be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two. After all, the slave is their property.
NIV
but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
NIVUK
but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
NKJV
Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.
NLV
But if he or she lives a day or two, he will not be punished, for his servant belongs to him.
NLT
But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.
NRSV
But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.
NRSVA
But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.
NRSVACE
But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.
NRSVCE
But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.
OJB
Notwithstanding, if he continue a yom or two, he shall not be avenged; for he is his kesef.
RSV
But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money.
RSVCE
But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money.
TLV
Notwithstanding, if the servant gets up in a day or two he will not be punished, for he is his property.
VOICE
But if the slave survives a couple of days, then there will be no penalty because the slave belongs to the master.
WEB
Notwithstanding, if he gets up after a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his property.
WYC
Soothly if the servant liveth over this beating one day, or twain, the smiter shall not be subject to the pain of death, for the servant is his master’s chattel.
YLT
only if he remain a day, or two days, he is not avenged, for he [is] his money.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

why?

Exodus 21:21 (KJV)= Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

See: (notice this doesn't change anything) :
Exodus 21:21
KJ21
Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his money.
ASV
Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
AMP
If, however, the servant survives for a day or two, the offender shall not be punished, for the [injured] servant is his own property.
AMPC
But if the servant lives on for a day or two, the offender shall not be punished, for he [has injured] his own property.
BRG
Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
CEB
But if the slave gets up after a day or two, the slave owner shouldn’t be punished because the slave is the owner’s property.
CJB
except that if the slave lives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his property.
CEV
However, if the slave lives a few days after the beating, you are not to be punished. After all, you have already lost the services of that slave who was your property.
DARBY
Only, if he continue [to live] a day or two days, he shall not be avenged; for he is his money.
DRA
But if the party remain alive a day or two, he shall not be subject to the punishment, because it is his money.
ERV
But if the slave gets up after a few days, then the master will not be punished. That is because someone paid their money for the slave, and the slave belongs to them.
ESV
But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.
ESVUK
But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.
EXB
But if the slave gets well after a day or two, the owner will not be punished since the slave belongs to him.
GNV
But if he continue a day or two days, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
GW
But if the slave gets up in a day or two, the owner must not be punished. The slave is his property.
GNT
But if the slave does not die for a day or two, the master is not to be punished. The loss of his property is punishment enough.
HCSB
However, if the slave can stand up after a day or two, the owner should not be punished because he is his owner’s property.
ICB
But the slave might get well after a day or two. Then that owner will not be punished since the slave belongs to him.
ISV
But if the servant survives a day or two, the master is not to be punished because the servant is his property.
JUB
Notwithstanding, if he continues a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his money.
KJV
Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
AKJV
Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
LEB
Yet if he survives a day or two days, he will not be avenged, because he is his money.
TLB
However, if the slave does not die for a couple of days, then the man shall not be punished—for the slave is his property.
MSG
“If a slave owner hits a slave, male or female, with a stick and the slave dies on the spot, the slave must be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he’s not to be avenged—the slave is the owner’s property.
MEV
Nevertheless, if he survives for a day or two, then he shall not be punished, for it is his money.
NOG
But if the slave gets up in a day or two, the owner must not be punished. The slave is his property.
NABRE
If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.
NASB
If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.
NCV
But if the slave gets well after a day or two, the owner will not be punished since the slave belongs to him.
NET
However, if the injured servant survives one or two days, the owner will not be punished, for he has suffered the loss.
NIRV
But they will not be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two. After all, the slave is their property.
NIV
but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
NIVUK
but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
NKJV
Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property.
NLV
But if he or she lives a day or two, he will not be punished, for his servant belongs to him.
NLT
But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.
NRSV
But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.
NRSVA
But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.
NRSVACE
But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.
NRSVCE
But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.
OJB
Notwithstanding, if he continue a yom or two, he shall not be avenged; for he is his kesef.
RSV
But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money.
RSVCE
But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money.
TLV
Notwithstanding, if the servant gets up in a day or two he will not be punished, for he is his property.
VOICE
But if the slave survives a couple of days, then there will be no penalty because the slave belongs to the master.
WEB
Notwithstanding, if he gets up after a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his property.
WYC
Soothly if the servant liveth over this beating one day, or twain, the smiter shall not be subject to the pain of death, for the servant is his master’s chattel.
YLT
only if he remain a day, or two days, he is not avenged, for he [is] his money.

Yes is does. It does change it since it means that if the slave can still work after the beating, then the slaver owner won't be punished.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes is does. It does change it since it means that if the slave can still work after the beating, then the slaver owner won't be punished.

So? What does it change ? (WAIT! ) EDIT:

NOTICE it is NOT A BEATING. IT IS being STRUCK (as in once) by a stick.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

So? What does it change ? (WAIT! ) EDIT:

NOTICE it is NOT A BEATING. IT IS being STRUCK (as in once) by a stick.

... BEATING IS SYNONYMOUS WITH STRUCK!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

... BEATING IS SYNONYMOUS WITH STRUCK!

Not at all, especially in context here.
The previous description was "savage beating" which looks like
not at all what was meant.