My Ultimate Diamond Challenge

[RickG]

It would stand as a testimony as to they being created and not born.

Adam & Eve lived for hundreds of years and were seen by many generations.

Therefore a lack of a belly button would attest to the veracity of their claims.

They weren't married, were they?

 

[AV1611VET]

They weren't married, were they?

Yes, they were.

As one theologian put it, Genesis 2 shows God building the chapel* they got married in.

* The Garden of Eden

 

[RickG]

Yes, they were.

As one theologian put it, Genesis 2 shows God building the chapel* they got married in.

* The Garden of Eden

What an imagination.

 

[Kylie]

Correct -- it did not.

So why don't you apply this logic to anything else? You don't claim that the moon and all other celestial objects were completely smooth. You just said probably smooth, barring mountains (see post 27). And yet, isn't the existence of mountains a record of a geological past?

And do you think that all crater formation took place in the last few thousand years?

I think the technical term for it is called disobedience.

Do perfect creations disobey?

 

[AV1611VET]

And yet, isn't the existence of mountains a record of a geological past?

Not necessarily.

God configured any mountains that were created during the Creation Week.

Psalm 65:6 Which by his strength setteth fast the mountains; being girded with power:

To quote Adam Clarke:

It is by thy strength they have been raised, and by thy power they are girded about or preserved. He represents the mountains as being formed and pitched into their proper places by the mighty hand of God; and shows that they are preserved from splitting, falling down, or mouldering away, as it were, by a girdle by which they are surrounded. The image is very fine. They were hooped about by the Divine power.

God is in the landscaping business.

Do perfect creations disobey?

Obviously they did ... didn't they?

 

[Kylie]

Not necessarily.

God configured any mountains that were created during the Creation Week.

Psalm 65:6 Which by his strength setteth fast the mountains; being girded with power:

Why don't you say the same thing about Adam and Eve's belly buttons, or craters?

God is in the landscaping business.

Given the mudslides, tsunamis and other such disaters that have killed lots of people, it seems he's missed a few things.

Obviously they did ... didn't they?

Then how were they perfect?

 

[AV1611VET]

Why don't you say the same thing about Adam and Eve's belly buttons, or craters?

Maybe He doesn't want to be accused of being Omphalos?

Given the mudslides, tsunamis and other such disaters that have killed lots of people, it seems he's missed a few things.

Either that, or you need to learn how Mother Nature works.

Then how were they perfect?

By being complete: having all the attributes to do what was expected of them.

 

[Kylie]

Maybe He doesn't want to be accused of being Omphalos?

And why would that be a bad thing?

Either that, or you need to learn how Mother Nature works.

So God intentionalyl made it so those things would happen and kill people?

By being complete: having all the attributes to do what was expected of them.

Including the desire to obey God, no matter what?

Or was obedience not expected of them?

 

[AV1611VET]

And why would that be a bad thing?

Your buddies think that is deceptive.

Don't you?

So God intentionalyl made it so those things would happen and kill people?

No.

Including the desire to obey God, no matter what?

Including freewill.

 

[Kylie]

Your buddies think that is deceptive.

Don't you?

Well, if it's bad when he does it for Adam and Eve's belly buttons, why is it okay when it's craters?

No.

Of course he did. Or are you claiming he didn't realise that it would end up that way? God knew what was going to happen, and he set up a system in which it would happen anyway.

If I knew that my daughter would go out onto the road and get hit by a car if I left the front door unlocked, then I can't be held blameless when she gets hurt if I don't lock it.

Including freewill.

So then God doesn't know the future?

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, if it's bad when he does it for Adam and Eve's belly buttons, why is it okay when it's craters?

Who put those craters on the moon? God or angels?

God created Adam & Eve without belly buttons, and He [probably] created the moon without craters.

What's the problem here?

 

[RickG]

Who put those craters on the moon? God or angels?

Neither, it was meteor impacts.

God created Adam & Eve without belly buttons, and He [probably] created the moon without craters.

Where does the bible say that and why do all the paintings and depictions, including the oldest, show them having belly buttons?

 

[AV1611VET]

Neither, it was meteor impacts.

Cute.

And where did meteors come from?

Just excess material that God had left over?

Where does the bible say that and why do all the paintings and depictions, including the oldest, show them having belly buttons?

First of all, belly buttons are scars, and God didn't create scars.

Second of all, creating placental scars on Adam & Eve would be deceptive, in my opinion.

 

[RickG]

Cute.

Not cute, rather a fact. The bible says nothing about craters on the moon.

And where did meteors come from?

Debris from the solar system and its still happening.

Just excess material that God had left over?

Debris from a prior stars supernovae.

First of all, belly buttons are scars, and God didn't create scars.

The bible says no such thing.

Second of all, creating placental scars on Adam & Eve would be deceptive, in my opinion.

And age without history is not deceptive? Seriously? And never mind that the age is full of geologic, climate and oceanographic history with fossils, paleomagnatism, orogeny, and geochemical proxies.

 

[AV1611VET]

And where did meteors come from?

Debris from the solar system and its still happening.

Just excess material that God had left over?

Debris from a prior stars supernovae.

How is it that God creates the universe in six days, and then debris from millions of light years out shows up within the space of six thousand years, without angels being involved?

 

[Kylie]

Who put those craters on the moon? God or angels?

Meteor impacts over billions of years.

God created Adam & Eve without belly buttons, and He [probably] created the moon without craters.

Glad to see you can admit that you don't know for sure.

What's the problem here?

The problem is that firstly, you have to deny basic science and yet you give no good reason for doing so (no, claiming that the Bible says different is not a good reason). Secondly, you are just guessing.

When your guesses go against tested science, then you haven't got much of a leg to stand on.

 

[AV1611VET]

Meteor impacts over billions of years.

Not hardly.

There is no such thing as "billions of years ago."

Glad to see you can admit that you don't know for sure.

Until someone comes up with a better explanation, I'll stick with that.

At least it's plausible, while not contradicting the Bible.

The problem is that firstly, you have to deny basic science ...

That's a problem?

... and yet you give no good reason for doing so ..

Actually I do.

... (no, claiming that the Bible says different is not a good reason).

And your science can take a hike.

Secondly, you are just guessing.

Yes -- and it's an educated guess.

Meaning those who have been through the halls of higher academia won't understand.

When your guesses go against tested science, then you haven't got much of a leg to stand on.

Then I'll sit myself right down ... like Rosa Parks did ... on your science bus, right up front.

 

[RickG]

How is it that God creates the universe in six days, and then debris from millions of light years out shows up within the space of six thousand years, without angels being involved?

I never said anything about debris from millions light years out or even implied it.

Prior to the formation of our sun there was another star (sun) in its place. It went supernovae and our solar system from from its debris. How do we know that? A star (sun) can only from elements during its lifetime no heavier than that of Iron. Our solar system, earth included, contains many elements heavier than iron. Elements of that weight can only form when a star goes supernovae. The earth is made from star dust, thus, we are all made from the dust of stars. "Earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust".

 

[Kylie]

Not hardly.

There is no such thing as "billions of years ago."

Yes there is.

You can't claim that what you've decided to be true actually IS true unless you can back it up by evidence.

And no, the Bible is not evidence.

Until someone comes up with a better explanation, I'll stick with that.

At least it's plausible, while not contradicting the Bible.

And there's your problem. You start with an assumption, which forces you to discount reality when it disagrees.

That's a problem?

Yes.

The fact that you don't realise that it's a problem is another problem. Indicates myopia. And closed-mindedness.

Actually I do.

Like I said, claiming "Because the Bible says so!" is not a good reason.

And your science can take a hike.

Unless you want to benefit from it. Don't you think that's hypocritical? (Of course, you've been called out on that many times before, and you happily cling to your double standard.)

Yes -- and it's an educated guess.

Only if your education consists of "Read the Bible, what it says is true, no arguments." That's not an argument. It comes disturbingly close to brainwashing.

Meaning those who have been through the halls of higher academia won't understand.

This is no different to the logic of the people who claim that vaccines cause autism, and they know more than actual doctors because they looked it up on Google.

Then I'll sit myself right down ... like Rosa Parks did ... on your science bus, right up front.

Better bring some evidence with you, or you won't be going anywhere.

 

[Kylie]

How is it that God creates the universe in six days, and then debris from millions of light years out shows up within the space of six thousand years, without angels being involved?

Because God didn't create the universe in six days, and the asteroid fragments didn't come from millions of light years away.

Thus, no requirement for angels.