My thoughts on the book of Job.

Ultima4257

Regular Member
Aug 15, 2005
415
28
In my house, somewhere in the world
✟18,206.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Constitution
So let me see if I understand this. God singles out Job to Satan, because he is blameless and abstains from evil. Satan argues that it is only because of all the wonderful things God has done for Job and the outcome would be different if it were taken away from him. So God makes a deal with the devil and allows him free reign in Job's life, with the only condition being he cannot kill him. Satan then proceeds to destroy his family, all of Job's wealth is taken from him and finally he is physically inflicted with disease to the point of contemplating suicide. To make matters worse, his so called friends keep nagging and discouraging him, saying that all this is somehow Job's fault, but despite all this Job never blames God. So imagine my surprise that when Job finally does question what is going on, God shows up and completely dodges the question and instead starts spouting off how great and glorious He is and how dare that Job should ask such questions, because Job isn't God. Maybe I am missing something in all this, but this book doesn't portray God in a positive light. What it shows is an indifferent puppet master, who in an effort to glorify Himself, collaborates with His worst enemy to inflict His creation with suffering, all the while ignoring any pleas of understanding from them. Is this really the character of a benevolent creator who desires relationship with His creation? If I wanted to build character in my child, like so many claim was God's intention in this story, I wouldn't allow a sadistic bully to beat them to a bloody pulp and then brush them off when they sought me for understanding about what was going on.
 

NonTheologian

Active Member
Feb 24, 2016
138
66
59
Dallas
✟639.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Curiously, the Book of Job is read in the Eastern Orthodox Church during each evening Vespers service during Holy Week - the Monday through Friday before Easter. I believe that the reason for this is that Job's suffering foreshadows the suffering that God Himself will voluntarily undergo at the hands of His own people.

To my mind, Job is an instrument of God to teach us to be patient and long-suffering and to trust in God's providence. At the end of the Book of Job, we read that the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before (42:10) and blessed the latter days of Job more than the beginning (42:12).
 
  • Like
Reactions: BeStill&Know
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,427
26,867
Pacific Northwest
✟731,303.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
The book of Job is part of a class of literature referred to as "Wisdom literature", it's in the same category as the Proverbs and Ecclesiastes.

As a text Job wrestles with a really complex question: Why do bad things happen to good people? In the tradition of Hebrew wisdom literature wisdom is not gained through rational inquiry (as it is in Hellenistic philosophy) but is instead found in "the fear of YHVH", and by "fear" the idea is the due reverence which God is owed.

For the ancient Jewish people God is not only the dispenser of good gifts, but is the One who is in charge of all things, "I form the light and I create the darkness, I make well-being and create calamity. I, YHVH, do all these things".

As such this text doesn't address the question the way we moderns would, and that can be frustrating. Because the essence of the text is that God is God, and it's not our place to question the Creator and Maker of everything, but to rather to know He is God.

Trying to read the text as a modern wanting to answer "why do bad things happen to good people?" from a long tradition of western rationalism isn't going to be helpful, because the text won't even begin to come close in addressing it. As such it needs to be read from within the context of ancient Hebrew wisdom literature, which does not so much seek to answer questions as it does to instill an appropriately reverent disposition toward God.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

paul1149

that your faith might rest in the power of God
Site Supporter
Mar 22, 2011
8,460
5,268
NY
✟674,964.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
God shows up and completely dodges the question and instead starts spouting off how great and glorious He is and how dare that Job should ask such questions, because Job isn't God. Maybe I am missing something in all this, but this book doesn't portray God in a positive light. What it shows is an indifferent puppet master, who in an effort to glorify Himself, collaborates with His worst enemy to inflict His creation with suffering, all the while ignoring any pleas of understanding from them. Is this really the character of a benevolent creator who desires relationship with His creation?

I can see how you could arrive at that conclusion, but yes you are missing some critical perspective. God doesn't "spout off", He is expanding Job's understanding. In his pain, Job saw everything from his own vantage point. God is saying that there is more out there than he knows about.

And that more is the reason God allowed Job to be tested. He was setting a precedent to humiliate "the satan" and eventually overthrow his usurpation of the kingdom.

And BTW, in the process, painful as it was, Job himself became free. He had only known God from a distance, but now he knew Him intimately. His righteousness was according to his own meticulous works. Now he knew that no one could approach God on His level. It's all through mercy and grace.

So yes, it's a hard story to understand, but especially thanks to the expanded understanding we have from the NT, we see a loving Father who in His wisdom does allow painful trials, but who has our best interests in mind even if we can't see the whole picture.
 
Upvote 0

katerinah1947

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 13, 2015
4,690
804
✟58,600.00
Faith
Catholic
So let me see if I understand this. God singles out Job to Satan, because he is blameless and abstains from evil. Satan argues that it is only because of all the wonderful things God has done for Job and the outcome would be different if it were taken away from him. So God makes a deal with the devil and allows him free reign in Job's life, with the only condition being he cannot kill him. Satan then proceeds to destroy his family, all of Job's wealth is taken from him and finally he is physically inflicted with disease to the point of contemplating suicide. To make matters worse, his so called friends keep nagging and discouraging him, saying that all this is somehow Job's fault, but despite all this Job never blames God. So imagine my surprise that when Job finally does question what is going on, God shows up and completely dodges the question and instead starts spouting off how great and glorious He is and how dare that Job should ask such questions, because Job isn't God. Maybe I am missing something in all this, but this book doesn't portray God in a positive light. What it shows is an indifferent puppet master, who in an effort to glorify Himself, collaborates with His worst enemy to inflict His creation with suffering, all the while ignoring any pleas of understanding from them. Is this really the character of a benevolent creator who desires relationship with His creation? If I wanted to build character in my child, like so many claim was God's intention in this story, I wouldn't allow a sadistic bully to beat them to a bloody pulp and then brush them off when they sought me for understanding about what was going on.

Hi,

The points in Job are perhaps more than one.

Job did not know, what was going on before seeing God.

He did afterwards.

The question is, does merely seeing God impart knowledge?

Without lying, it would be impossible for Job to recant, before first God talked to him out of the clouds, then later actually seeing God.

He recanted though. He was also able to write the book of Job.

Job is perhaps one of the most Mystical books there are, apart from other prophets.

God, set Satan up. Remember what Jesus says about Satan. He is a liar. He, Jesus might also say that Satan is a murderer. Lies though, if you take those words of Jesus, might or is, what Satan was called on in the book of Job.

Even if not, God went at him.

G: Where have you been?

S: I have been patrolling the earth.

( Potentially or definitely a lie.)

G: Have you seen Job? .......

S: That's because you favor him.

Satan is telling God, That He is wrong.

G: Okay. Prove it. (Not those words, but that is the meaning)

Next event, with Satan

G: Have you seen Job? And you were wrong.

S: That's because.....

G: Okay, prove it.

Still Satan is shown to be wrong, and Job never had a clue as to what the reasons were, that this was all happening to him.

God was making a point to us, and to Satan, that God knows more than Satan.

Seeing God, is quite the reward. Job only heard of God, prior to that. He had never seen God before.

God to Job and us, is saying that when things happen to us on earth, it is not always for our sins.

Sometimes, what happens to us, is for a bigger issue.

We, and Job learned that God can and does put limits on Satan, that even Satan obeys.

Satan is allowed to have some sort of access to God.

Job's wife was not killed, thus telling us something about marriage, in terms of personhood and oneness. (The two becoming one)

Job had everything doubled as the way God Treats those that work for Him in any capacity. He rewards.

We learned about potentially life after death in Job's children.

He was not given twice as many children on earth as he had before. He was given the same amount on earth as before.

It is possible that Job's deceased children, were not in fact deceased as we think of deceased. Rather, they all might be alive still, but alive with or near God, and as such Job's children after God showed Satan up, were possibly doubled also, along with the doubling of everything else Job had.

Further, God introduces the idea of the words of two of Job's friends, being in The Bible, but not being correct.

G: Two of your three friends did not speak rightly about me. (Again, that is not exactly what God said, but it is correct.)

God introduces us to the concept of things written in The Bible, that God, Himself, Says are not to be believed.

(Satan's words, all of them, two of Job's three friends, and later Paul, when Paul says that he is speaking on his own, and not from God, or anyplace that God does not cause those words to be spoken, or written.)

LOVE,
 
Upvote 0

NonTheologian

Active Member
Feb 24, 2016
138
66
59
Dallas
✟639.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Job did not know, what was going on before seeing God

I have read through Job maybe once or twice, but I don't recall anything about Job seeing God. I thought that until the Son was Incarnate, no one had ever seen God.
 
Upvote 0

katerinah1947

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 13, 2015
4,690
804
✟58,600.00
Faith
Catholic
I have read through Job maybe once or twice, but I don't recall anything about Job seeing God. I thought that until the Son was Incarnate, no one had ever seen God.

Hi,

Job 42:5


I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear,
but now my eye sees you;

LOVE,
 
Upvote 0

aiki

Regular Member
Feb 16, 2007
10,874
4,349
Winnipeg
✟236,538.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Isaiah 29:16
16 Surely you have things turned around! Shall the potter be esteemed as the clay; For shall the thing made say of him who made it, "He did not make me"? Or shall the thing formed say of him who formed it, "He has no understanding"?

Romans 9:20-21 (NKJV)
20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

What the Book of Job emphasizes is God's supremacy, His other-ness and that the universe was not created for us but for God. The story of Job illustrates that God's interests and purposes come before our own and that He will do with us whatever it pleases Him to do.

Selah.
 
Upvote 0