My Igneous Challenge

Status
Not open for further replies.

Justatruthseeker

Newbie
Supporter
Jun 4, 2013
10,132
996
Tulsa, OK USA
✟132,504.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
You find an igneous rock that dates to the year 10,484,570 BC.

Question: How old was the magma or lava that formed it?

Unknowable in the slightest.

http://www.pbslearningmedia.org/res...ng-lava-flows-on-mauna-loa-volcano-hawai699i/

"Scientists search for carbonized remains of plants preserved in lava flows to find out how long it has taken rain forests on Hawaiʻi to regenerate after a volcanic eruption in this NOVA video. For hundreds of thousands of years, lava flows have created intricate patterns on the slopes of Hawaiʻi's Mauna Loa volcano. Until the mid-1970s, it was impossible to know when each of the flows occurred."

We can't even tell how old ones that are a mere 7500 years old are without plant remains.
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,141
Visit site
✟98,005.00
Faith
Agnostic
You find an igneous rock that dates to the year 10,484,570 BC.

Question: How old was the magma or lava that formed it?

Radiometric dating measures the history of radioactive decay in the rock since it solidified. It is not a measure of the age of the liquid lava that produced it.
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,141
Visit site
✟98,005.00
Faith
Agnostic
Unknowable in the slightest.

http://www.pbslearningmedia.org/res...ng-lava-flows-on-mauna-loa-volcano-hawai699i/

"Scientists search for carbonized remains of plants preserved in lava flows to find out how long it has taken rain forests on Hawaiʻi to regenerate after a volcanic eruption in this NOVA video. For hundreds of thousands of years, lava flows have created intricate patterns on the slopes of Hawaiʻi's Mauna Loa volcano. Until the mid-1970s, it was impossible to know when each of the flows occurred."

We can't even tell how old ones that are a mere 7500 years old without plant remains.

If we can't weigh a feather on scales meant to weigh semi-trucks, does that mean those scales are not accurate?
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,478
51,371
Guam
✟4,891,571.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Radiometric dating measures the history of radioactive decay in the rock since it solidified.

I already gave you the date: 10,484,570 BC.

It is not a measure of the age of the liquid lava that produced it.

Whether it is or isn't, how old is the magma or lava that produced it?
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,141
Visit site
✟98,005.00
Faith
Agnostic
I already gave you the date: 10,484,570 BC.

Right. That would indicate that it has been 10,484,570+2015 years since that rock solidified from liquid lava.

Whether it is or isn't, how old is the magma or lava that produced it?

>10,484,570 + 2015 years old.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,478
51,371
Guam
✟4,891,571.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,141
Visit site
✟98,005.00
Faith
Agnostic
Unless the lava that produced it was 10,484,570+2015 years old.

That isn't how it works. Newly solidified rocks date young. In K/Ar dating, the hot, liquid magma allows argon to escape out of it. It isn't until the lava solidifies that argon can be trapped. By measuring the amount of argon and comparing it to the amount of radioactive potassium that produced it, you can measure the time since the rock solidified and started capturing argon.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Justatruthseeker

Newbie
Supporter
Jun 4, 2013
10,132
996
Tulsa, OK USA
✟132,504.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
Igneous rock that is millions of years old isn't dated with 14C.

And yet you can't date lava that is thousands of years old, but can if its millions? I fail to see your reliance on dating old lava flows that can't even date recent lava flows.
 
Upvote 0

Loudmouth

Contributor
Aug 26, 2003
51,417
6,141
Visit site
✟98,005.00
Faith
Agnostic
And yet you can't date lava that is thousands of years old, but can if its millions? I fail to see your reliance on dating old lava flows that can't even date recent lava flows.

From a previous post . . .

If we can't weigh a feather on scales meant to weigh semi-trucks, does that mean those scales are not accurate?

If you can't weight nanograms, how can you weigh tons?
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,478
51,371
Guam
✟4,891,571.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
That isn't how it works. Newly solidified rocks date young. In K/Ar dating, the hot, liquid magma allows argon to escape out of it. It isn't until the lava solidifies that argon can be trapped. By measuring the amount of argon and comparing it to the amount of radioactive potassium that produced it, you can measure the time since the rock solidified and started capturing argon.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,446
803
71
Chicago
✟121,700.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
You find an igneous rock that dates to the year 10,484,570 BC.

Question: How old was the magma or lava that formed it?

Hey, brother. Do you know this is a graduate level geochronology question?
There IS a way to evaluate it. But I don't think anyone in this forum can appreciate it. The "story" could be a little bit long.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,478
51,371
Guam
✟4,891,571.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Hey, brother. Do you know this is a graduate level geochronology question?

I believe it!

There IS a way to evaluate it. But I don't think anyone in this forum can appreciate it. The "story" could be a little bit long.

Well, Loudmouth thinks he can pwn embedded age creation with igneous rocks, so I'm giving him a chance.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,276
26,724
Pacific Northwest
✟726,460.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Unless the lava that produced it was 10,484,570+2015 years old.

Magma flows up from the earth's mantle, released onto the surface by volcanic activity. The magma that cooled and became solid rock would be much older than the rock itself. So a rock that was 10,486,586 years old would not be produced from magma that was only 10,486,586 years old. That magma would have been in the mantle for millions, even billions, of years before it erupted upon the surface and cooled.

So the answer >10,484,570 + 2015 is the correct answer.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,478
51,371
Guam
✟4,891,571.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
That magma would have been in the mantle for millions, even billions, of years before it erupted upon the surface and cooled.

You're assuming the earth has gone around the sun that many times, and adjusting your description accordingly.

I didn't mention anything about the passage of time in my OP.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.