My Darwin Challenge

Speedwell

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And what pray tell would be the cause of the variation?
Recombination, genetic drift and mutation are the principle causes.


I'm not sure to which mill you are referring but I am familiar with this sort of condescending blether when dogmatic evolutionists are faced with something they can't give a proper answer to. I do hope you are not one of them.
Institute for Creation Research, Answers in Genesis, Creation Research International, and a host of lesser Creation ministries headed by "scientists" with fraudulent credentials like Karl Baugh and Kent Hovind. My objection to them is that they systematically misrepresent conventional science, creating a "straw man" to convince the faithful that scientists, out of ignorance or wickedness, are promoting an easily disprovable theory. The claim of "no evidence" is a dead giveaway.


They both face the same problem however; that of a credible explanation for the functional coherence of novel biological forms.
Yet there is an immense body of well-evidenced scholarship dealing with this very subject. Have you investigated it, or do you just dismiss it out of hand?
 
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Speedwell

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The history of this whole debate lies in the struggle to throw out anything that might smell even slightly of the nemesis, but holding up good science out of the fear that God might get His foot in the door is simply anti-scientific.
As a Christian I agree with you, although I am not so sure that much "good science" is being held up on that account. From my point of view, the debate is not concerned with the God who author of the universe, but the God who lives in a magical book and can't do anything that isn't written there.
 
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Subduction Zone

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It might not be allowed but I am repeatedly confronted with dogmatic, evidence free assertions of faith in Methodological Naturalism from so called scientifically minded people.
At least people of faith aknowledge that much of what they beleive is on faith and trust and so their brand of dogma might be acceptable.
You have already been corrected on this error of yours, there is no need to repeat the obvious.

Not a Creationist but a Structuralist (although I suspect that anybody that is not a dyed in the wool Darwinian Functionalist gets awarded the "Creationist" label), by the name of Denton, has shown that a number of the Taxa defining forms in the "tree of life" have no adaptive function, particularly in any transitional state and must have therefore been formed in a saltational manner so that Darwinian incremental functionalism fails. These forms include the Pentadactyl limb, avian feathers, whorls of the angiosperm flower, the shape of the Maple leaf, the Enucleate red cell, and a number of others.

Please, when you make such claim you need to support them with valid links. It looks like Denton's work that you cited has been refuted, even by Denton it sounds like. Otherwise claims such as this can be dismissed with a handwave since you just waved them in by hand.

Nevertheless naturalistic evolution cannot be a "fact" if biogenesis or any genesis of form happened through an intelligent agent.

Why not? That does not logically follow at all. Once again, evolution is only concerned with what happened after life first appeared. You seem to be conflating the theory of evolution with the entire history of life.
 
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Speedwell

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Why not? That does not logically follow at all. Once again, evolution is only concerned with what happened after life first appeared. You seem to be conflating the theory of evolution with the entire history of life.
It is apparent that he regards the theory of evolution as part of a systematic attempt to deny the existence of God.
 
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AV1611VET

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Why? A personal prejudice against the man that figured out how life's diversity developed makes no sense either.
My 'personal prejudice' has "the man that figured out how life's diversity developed" in Heaven.

As opposed to those who deny the Lady Hope story and have him in Hell.
 
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Subduction Zone

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My 'personal prejudice' has "the man that figured out how life's diversity developed" in Heaven.

As opposed to those who deny the Lady Hope story and have him in Hell.


Wait a second. Once again you are not making any sense. As far as Lady Hope goes it is abundantly clear that she was lying. And why would Darwin be in hell? Are you claiming that your God is an unjust God?
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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I have no idea whatsoever.

That's why I said, "if he was so wrong."

I find it hard to believe he got it right the first time, but there's a first time for everything, I guess.

He got it about as right as Newton did.
That is to say "about as right as it gets, given what was known at the time".

Newton didn't know about relativity.
Darwin didn't know about DNA.

However, their models weren't overturned by the discovery of relativity or DNA. Instead...they were "completed".

It's not that they were wrong. It's more that they weren't able to see the entire picture.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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There is no evidence for the just so story of Mt Impropable, or any other permutation of it, and in fact given the level of functional coherence necessary to bring about even small beneficial changes it has been very adequately demonstrated that it is physically impossible for such things to happen.

Then why can we observe it to happen every day?

A slightly different field of study perhaps

No, no... very different. One is basically chemistry and the other is biology.


Anyway, if you don't have a functional self replicating population of biological organisms, you don't even get past first base on the evolutionary story.
Exactly, which is why it's not part of that story.

Evolutionary biology is the study of the processes that life is subject to.
Obviously, life needs to exist before it can be subject to any process at all.

Derp.
 
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Jimmy D

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If Mr. Darwin got all this:

A capitol city in Australia, his face on a £10 note, and a day on the calendar.

Imagine what all he would have gotten if he had been right! :oldthumbsup:

Funnily enough, I'd never heard of Darwin's day.

The mission of International Darwin Day is to inspire people throughout the globe to reflect and act on the principles of intellectual bravery, perpetual curiosity, scientific thinking, and hunger for truth as embodied in Charles Darwin.

The horror!
 
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Anguspure

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Then why can we observe it to happen every day?
A fellow Ducati rider here?
Nope, sorry. If you understand the demands placed by functional coherence and what is actually required in order to posit actual evolutionary change then you will understand that this has never been observed and never will be observed anymore than it has been observed that a troop of monkeys banging on typewriters have been observed to have produced "methinks its a weasel".

No, no... very different. One is basically chemistry and the other is biology.
Supposedly one emerged from the other by an as yet undetermined natural process (magic?) which could well be the same as yet undetermined natural process that causes novel funtionally coherent non-adaptive forms to arise throughout the development of life on earth.

Evolutionary biology is the study of the processes that life is subject to.
Obviously, life needs to exist before it can be subject to any process at all.

Derp.
Nevertheless the natural processes identified, that life is subject to, are insufficient to explain the observed effect.
 
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David_M

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It became the capital city in 1911, did it not?

No, it's name was officially changed from Port Darwin to Darwin in 1911, residents had called it just "Darwin" well before that point.

It was named after Darwin back in the 1830s.
 
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AV1611VET

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As far as Lady Hope goes it is abundantly clear that she was lying.
Really?

That clear, huh?

If Darwin's brood hadn't denied it, would you?
Subduction Zone said:
And why would Darwin be in hell?
Do the math.

You've been here long enough to know.
 
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The mission of International Darwin Day is to inspire people throughout the globe to reflect and act on the principles of intellectual bravery, perpetual curiosity, scientific thinking, and hunger for truth as embodied in Charles Darwin.
Ya ... I'm sure people stand around uninspired and not reflecting and acting on the principles of intellectual bravery, perpetual curiosity, and scientific thinking, starved for truth as embodied in Charles Darwin; until Darwin's day comes along, then suddenly they're all enlightened. :doh:

My guess is that they're just as starved for THE Truth as Darwin was.

Elizabeth Cotton realized this, and treated Darwin as God would have: a mission field.
 
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