My Apple Challenge III

[Freodin]

Science is only a branch of science. You tend to forget that so I'll put it as my tagline.

I am looking forward to that.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nice tagline, Greg --

 

[Nathan Poe]

The way you people abuse science and seek to hijack a method of inquiry can only lead to it's rejection. If science is so inclined to delve only into material law, this doesn't make reality exclusively material. Nor does it make speculations and distortions based on data "scientific" just because it is material. When these speculations arise it becomes a philosophical venture bedridden by the load of materialistic preconceptions.

If there's a problem with any of those preconceptions, illustrate them.

For example, Darwinism. Both molecular biology and psychology are branches within science. If psychology was inclined to only explain the manifestation of mental phenomena, this does not make reality as a whole exclusively the nervous system and thought.

Correct -- reality as a whole is explainable by psychology, geology, chemistry, physics, biology, astronomy, etc., etc.

If your point is that no one science can adequately explain observed reality, then you're obviously right -- which is why there are several sciences.

Proteins, oxygen, acids, alkanes etc are still a functional part of reality and lo, they are integrated with the basis psychology. It is when an emotional aversion to everything molecular pollutes the psychological branch of science, problem arises, and then psychology can take a hike.

Actually, many psychologists are trained to acknowledgte and recognize physical/medical causes for psychological symptoms -- for example, a prudent psychologist would order a PET scan before diagnosing someone with schizophrenia, lest the actual cause be a brain tumor or something similar.

If psychology were to set out to prove the existence of molecules, it does this just fine everytime it outlines a certain hormonal imbalance giving rise to angry temperaments. It is a branch which does what it can with what it has based on the integration of all branches. But it does not state that reality is only a nervous system. This would most likely lead to its rejection. Science is only a branch of science. You tend to forget that so I'll put it as my tagline.

Science is only a branch of itself? Please put that on your tagling -- it's funny!

 

[AV1611VET]

Correct -- reality as a whole is explainable by psychology, geology, chemistry, physics, biology, astronomy, etc., etc.

No wonder it changes with the weather then -- too many [myopic] cooks.

 

[Nathan Poe]

No wonder it changes with the weather then -- too many [myopic] cooks.

Are you feeling left out because I didn't include mythology in that list?

Fret not, AV there's a place for you in reality -- just not as the source of wisdom and knowledge you like to think you are.

 

[Split Rock]

...

 

[Split Rock]

No wonder it changes with the weather then -- too many [myopic] cooks.

Strange how the most myopic people I've encountered here are creationists...

 

[Nathan Poe]

Strange how the most myopic people I've encountered here are creationists...

Actually, it's not that they are nearsighted, they're hallucinating.

 

[Greg1234]

If there's a problem with any of those preconceptions, illustrate them.

In progress

Correct -- reality as a whole is explainable by psychology, geology, chemistry, physics, biology, astronomy, etc., etc.

If your point is that no one science can adequately explain observed reality, then you're obviously right -- which is why there are several sciences.

Which makes my point.

Actually, many psychologists are trained to acknowledgte and recognize physical/medical causes for psychological symptoms -- for example, a prudent psychologist would order a PET scan before diagnosing someone with schizophrenia, lest the actual cause be a brain tumor or something similar.

And again

Science is only a branch of itself? Please put that on your tagling -- it's funny!

Science is only a branch of itself when what it investigates is the only thing to be assessed. When science is defined as the investigation of material phenomena then science is only delving into one aspect of reality. Where there are multiple aspects, there are various branches of science (the pure form).

 

[Psudopod]

No wonder it changes with the weather then -- too many [myopic] cooks.

What aspect of science has changed fundamentally in the last 100 years or so? We've got more accurate, we've found cases where we've only have half the picture, but only very rarely have we thrown anything completely in the bin.

 

[mzungu]

AV,

Nihilo is an impossibility in science. It is only an imaginary state. There cannot be "nothing" even at the plank level there is a condition known as "Quantum foam"; a chaotic state where all the laws of physics break down in a chaotic state yet still there is something.

Nothing means that not even space can exist and thus without space time cannot exist.

Eventually everything is made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed.

Creatio ex nihilo is impossible unless you define Nihilo differently. I shall attempt to put some meaning to your question by asking you to please define what you mean by Nihilo so that we can all attempt to give you an answer that may be acceptable to you. Without that; then there cannot be an answer.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nihilo is an impossibility in science.

-- Sounds good to me!

It is only an imaginary state.

Impossible = Imaginary ?

There cannot be "nothing" even at the plank level there is a condition known as "Quantum foam"; a chaotic state where all the laws of physics break down in a chaotic state yet still there is something.

If you're reverse-engineering your own philosophy (mundane science), then I'll agree with you -- you cannot get back to God by reverse-engineering the universe as it is currently laid out by today's computer programs.

Nothing means that not even space can exist and thus without space time cannot exist.

Time = distance/velocity.

Eventually everything is made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed.

This gets back to my point that the 1st Law of Thermodynamics was not in operation during the Creation Week.

Creatio ex nihilo is impossible unless you define Nihilo differently.

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

John 4:35 Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

I shall attempt to put some meaning to your question by asking you to please define what you mean by Nihilo so that we can all attempt to give you an answer that may be acceptable to you.

Nihilo = nothing -- the kind of 'nothing' that is impossible to achieve through reverse-engineering current paradigms.

Without that; then there cannot be an answer.

Mundane, myopic, junk science is making you give up too easily.

Wanna try again for an answer?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Wanna try again for an answer?

Want to try not redefining reality to suit your ego?

 

[driewerf]

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What aspect of science has changed fundamentally in the last 100 years or so? We've got more accurate, we've found cases where we've only have half the picture, but only very rarely have we thrown anything completely in the bin.

PLUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Pluto isn't a planet anymore.

 

[AV1611VET]

PLUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Pluto isn't a planet anymore.

-- Thanks for making my day! --

 

[mzungu]

-- Sounds good to me!

Impossible = Imaginary ?

something impossible can only exist in the imagination or in an artistic rendition:

If you're reverse-engineering your own philosophy (mundane science), then I'll agree with you -- you cannot get back to God by reverse-engineering the universe as it is currently laid out by today's computer programs.

Time = distance/velocity.

YouTube - Science Questions : What Is a Space-Time Continuum?
YouTube - Physics - What Is Time?

This gets back to my point that the 1st Law of Thermodynamics was not in operation during the Creation Week.

That is an impossibility!

Nihilo = nothing -- the kind of 'nothing' that is impossible to achieve through reverse-engineering current paradigms.

could you be more specific? How do you reverse engineer a thought or a dream? (excerpt from wiki: Reverse engineering is the process of discovering the technological principles of a human made device, object or system through analysis of its structure, function and operation. It often involves taking something (e.g., a mechanical device, electronic component, or software program) apart and analyzing its workings in detail to be used in maintenance, or to try to make a new device or program that does the same thing without using or simply duplicating (without understanding) any part of the original.)

Mundane, myopic, junk science is making you give up too easily.

Wanna try again for an answer?

Giving up does not exist in my dictionary; En Guard mon ami!!!!!

 

[AV1611VET]

could you be more specific? How do you reverse engineer a thought or a dream?

Let me use a crude example.

Suppose a fog materialized, and a man stepped out of the fog.

He then goes into a city and piques the curiosity of scientists, who want to know where he came from -- (specifically who his parents are).

No amount of DNA testing and genealogical searching is going to ascertain where this man came from.

Their science is just too inadequate to find out anything about this man.

It would take a time machine, and scientists don't have time machines lying around.

 

[Split Rock]

Let me use a crude example.

Suppose a fog materialized, and a man stepped out of the fog.

He then goes into a city and piques the curiosity of scientists, who want to know where he came from -- (specifically who his parents are).

No amount of DNA testing and genealogical searching is going to ascertain where this man came from.

Their science is just too inadequate to find out anything about this man.

It would take a time machine, and scientists don't have time machines lying around.

Suppose this man cured people by just touching them... and feed 300 people with 3 fish and a loaf of bread... and turned water into wine? What would those evil myopic scientists do to him??????????????????????????????????????

 

[AV1611VET]

Suppose this man cured people by just touching them... and feed 300 people with 3 fish and a loaf of bread... and turned water into wine? What would those evil myopic scientists do to him??????????????????????????????????????

Probably x-ray him or something stupid.

Maybe sniff his armpits or analyze his belch.

 

[mzungu]

Let me use a crude example.

Suppose a fog materialized, and a man stepped out of the fog.

He then goes into a city and piques the curiosity of scientists, who want to know where he came from -- (specifically who his parents are).

No amount of DNA testing and genealogical searching is going to ascertain where this man came from.

Their science is just too inadequate to find out anything about this man.

It would take a time machine, and scientists don't have time machines lying around.

Many people are found that suffer amnesia etc. It is not difficult to ascertain from which country the man has come from and also it does not really matter. After all he is just a man!

Forensic scientists can ascertain many things.

Still you must pardon my ignorance but this has nothing to do with reverse engineering.