Music question

[rumblefish]

Gozreht, great reply, thanks for taking the time to respond, God Bless you man, so very nice to meet someone who can discuss and debate ideas without getting personal, or angry. This made my day after reading your reply.

To answer the addiction question.

I regarded music as an idle entertainer for the first 12 years of my life, and simply hummed along to the catchy tunes, and enjoyed them at face value.
Somewhere between my 12th and 13 birthday, I was given a brand new cassette tape of Judas priests album "Sad Wings of Destiny", and from the very first song on the first side, it was like a hook had dug into my soul, and I could not go more than a day without listening to that album. As I discovered more and more about the band, and how many albums they had out, I begged, borrowed and stole to get all of them, and with every new album, came the temporary relief of having something, new, that soon wore off, leaving me hungry for more.

This was not a teenage infatuation with a band, even as an adult now, I could only recite some of the band members names, and I know absolutely nothing about them, other than that they collectively make up the band. I don't relate to any of the band members, they are not from my home country, or anything, they are just "the band", but there music is to me, what cigarettes and alcohol have been over the years, an addiction.

Obviously, I have an addictive personality or predisposition to getting hooked into things, which is precisely why I have never done drugs, but the closest thing I have had in my life that shares commonality with a drug addiction is music.

I firmly believe God showed me through that experience of being hooked on Judas Priest, that music has the ability to snare people, and I have seen first-hand, perfectly happy kids, turn into family destroying ratbags, from listening to music that told them they had issues or problems in their lives, that simply were not there, it just raised up a spirit of rebellion, and it poisoned their minds, in almost a kind of mind control system, with repetitions of phrases and words, that re-programmed their psyche.

This probably all sounds very "conspiracy theory" I guess, and there will be plenty of people who think I am just an old fuddy duddy, but I am a father of two wonderful children, who have not been bombarded with the secular music of today, and are polite, respectful, happy, and love school, and The Lord, and I believe music has a power, and where Satan cannot get a certian person to drink booze, smoke drugs, or stick a needle in his arm, he offers more subtle (where have I heard that word before I wonder) addictions to the masses.

God is truth, his music is truth through worship, the rest of it is basically nonsense to me, and shares the same spirit whether it be Simon and Garfunkel, or Slayer.

I will respond to your other points soon, I am partaking of another addiction as we speek, being coffee. God Bless you, you made my day.

 

[rumblefish]

NOW, as to the OP. I do have an issue with the music of the churches. Most are self serving songs. All about me, me, me. All about making me feel good. All about expressing my feelings. All about what Jesus can do for me.

What about simple worship of the King of Kings? Or is that too boring?

People are in love with themselves, and they love Jesus because they have this notion that Jesus loves all the things about them, that they too love.

A hearty Amen to that.
In an earlier post I did mention that our churches music has become a lot like the NIV Bible, and instead of actually having the name of Jesus Christ, or God the Father in the lyrics, it's a series of "He" and "You" references, leaving it wide open as to whom is being exalted, and the lyrics are as you said "all about me me me".

One of the earliest songs I sung as a Christian was "I believe in Jesus"
I cannot recite the whole song, because it has not been sung in any church I have attended since 1990, but it goes something like this.....

I believe in Jesus
I believe He is the song of God
I believe He died and rose again
I believe He paid for us all
And I belive that He's here now
Standing in our midst
Here with the power to heal now
And the grace to forgive.

Why do we not praise and worship the Lord like this anymore?. This was a simple piano, guitar song in our church, and the presence of the Holy Spirit was so strong, and the annointing so great, that spontaneous worship bubbled up every time we sang it.
What do we sing now?. I shudder to think.

 

[Gozreht]

Gozreht, great reply, thanks for taking the time to respond, God Bless you man, so very nice to meet someone who can discuss and debate ideas without getting personal, or angry. This made my day after reading your reply.

I would much rather discuss things. It is a lot easier to keep things going.

I regarded music as an idle entertainer for the first 12 years of my life, and simply hummed along to the catchy tunes, and enjoyed them at face value.
Somewhere between my 12th and 13 birthday, I was given a brand new cassette tape of Judas priests album "Sad Wings of Destiny", and from the very first song on the first side, it was like a hook had dug into my soul, and I could not go more than a day without listening to that album. As I discovered more and more about the band, and how many albums they had out, I begged, borrowed and stole to get all of them, and with every new album, came the temporary relief of having something, new, that soon wore off, leaving me hungry for more.

This is a different testimony, like none I have ever heard before. Thank you for sharing. I can see how this would make you feel. My personal opinion is satan used your enjoyment against you. I do not believe it was actually the music that did it. I feel it was the message behind the music. When I was 16 I found the same type of music that Christians were making. My favorite band of all time became Stryper. The positive influence they had really allowe me to be entertained as well as give some glory back to God. That is not what Judas Priest would have done for me. (BTW, to this day I can't stand it when I see heavy metal shows because they always play at least one of their songs).

This probably all sounds very "conspiracy theory" I guess, and there will be plenty of people who think I am just an old fuddy duddy, but I am a father of two wonderful children, who have not been bombarded with the secular music of today, and are polite, respectful, happy, and love school, and The Lord, and I believe music has a power, and where Satan cannot get a certian person to drink booze, smoke drugs, or stick a needle in his arm, he offers more subtle (where have I heard that word before I wonder) addictions to the masses.

That is good parenting backed by Godly values.

God is truth, his music is truth through worship, the rest of it is basically nonsense to me, and shares the same spirit whether it be Simon and Garfunkel, or Slayer.

I know what you are saying. But remember God created music. He told David to use instruments and dance as forms of worship. But the devil comes by just like with everything else and tries to ruin it. I don't think it is the music itself that is the problem but if you feel it distracts you from God then you do what you have to do to be close to God. As long as worship remains the focus.

 

[Gozreht]

instead of actually having the name of Jesus Christ, or God the Father in the lyrics, it's a series of "He" and "You" references, leaving it wide open as to whom is being exalted, and the lyrics are as you said "all about me me me"...

Why do we not praise and worship the Lord like this anymore?. This was a simple piano, guitar song in our church, and the presence of the Holy Spirit was so strong, and the annointing so great, that spontaneous worship bubbled up every time we sang it.
What do we sing now?. I shudder to think.

That does go with every generation. EVen hymns of old sometimes just tell a story and never get to actually worshiping God. But they think it does. But I agree with a lot of this post. I know a song that we used called We are the Body. It's a good radio song. But all it says is "if we are the body then why are His hands moving"... and I used to say in my head "because we are not glorifying anyone".

There are still a lot of great songs out there that are nice melodies, upbeat, great words, and biblical. That is why I do not believe in having to use a secular song during worship time. Within the sermon as a point...okay, but not because it will bring people into the doors (which to mnay church leaders will mean more money whether they want to admit it or not).

 

[KimberlyAA]

Using Kings Of Leon for a worship service seems kinda whack. The video for Use Somebody has smoking and alcohol being promoted along with women of course. Here's a good song suggestion : Rock of Ages - Revelation Song - YouTube

 

[Gozreht]

We do this song. It is appropriate. It has biblical statements verbatim. It has upliftings to God. It praises Jesus above all things.

And I thank you for your comment. King of Leon is not what should be played anywhere, in or out of church.

 

[hypshark]

The church is a hospital, not a concert. I say this and I play in a worship band at a Christian church (instrumental). I'm stunned that they played Adele, but (since I also write music), all I hear in the "gospel" genre anymore are me-based. (ie: "God you make me feel like this"). I can't say that it really is too surprising. We've played a song a few times that spoke lyrically of "love holding us together", but it doesn't mention God at all, yet it was written by a Christian artist.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The church is a hospital, not a concert. I say this and I play in a worship band at a Christian church (instrumental). I'm stunned that they played Adele, but (since I also write music), all I hear in the "gospel" genre anymore are me-based. (ie: "God you make me feel like this"). I can't say that it really is too surprising. We've played a song a few times that spoke lyrically of "love holding us together", but it doesn't mention God at all, yet it was written by a Christian artist.

That is why I do my best to avoid such nonsense. If it is any comfort, there were plenty of hymns written in the past that would make your hair stand on end with their errors. One particularly popular Catholic hymn is "Hail, Queen of Heaven". As a prominent nineteenth-century Unitarian once stated, the easiest way to introduce heresy into a church is through music.

 

[hypshark]

We do this song. It is appropriate. It has biblical statements verbatim. It has upliftings to God. It praises Jesus above all things.

And I thank you for your comment. King of Leon is not what should be played anywhere, in or out of church.

lol

 

[relate4ever]

I love the "Acappella" group! Especially the songs that sang the Scripture passages! Amazing melody, vocals and message.

 

[writermomof3]

I wouldn't like that, either, Gozreht. I love Adele's voice, but there's a time and a place to listen to Adele, and there's a time and a place to listen to music intended to draw us closer to God.

I'm a church pianist, and sometimes I play contemporary music with spiritual lyrics, but I hesitate to play anything most of the congregation (and our small congregation includes a lot of older people) wouldn't recognize.

The pianist who came before me, God rest his dear soul, played a lot of popular music for offertories. Some of it could be taken in a spiritual way, and some of it was just pretty music, but he was justified for playing some of it on the fly like he did because it related to the minister's sermon. For example, one Sunday our minister preached that "Christianity is not rocket science," and our pianist played Elton John's "Rocket Man" for the offertory--which brought a lot of smiles from the congregation. The point was well-taken, though, and, anyway, we weren't singing the song. Telling this story makes me miss our friend and piano player, who died of a heart attack a few years ago.

I think what he did was fine every once in awhile, but I have a problem with playing or singing popular songs just for the sake of playing or singing them, especially if they're in no way, shape or form spiritual. I'm just a middle-age Baby Boomer and like contemporary music, but I also think it's wrong for churches to assume that "all young people want to hear contemporary music." My 19-year-old loves some of the old hymns, and he's no fuddy-duddy. Likewise, I recently spoke to the husband of a younger friend and was surprised to hear him say that he and my friend (both in their late 30s, not fuddy-duddies, either) really like to hear some of the traditional music, too.

 

[seekingsister]

I grew up in an RM church and someone sang "Praying for Time" by George Michael at a service . A song with lyrics that say "But we'll take our chances because God's stopped keeping score."

Suffice it to say I no longer attend that church.

 

[Gozreht]

The church is a hospital, not a concert. I say this and I play in a worship band at a Christian church (instrumental). I'm stunned that they played Adele, but (since I also write music), all I hear in the "gospel" genre anymore are me-based. (ie: "God you make me feel like this"). I can't say that it really is too surprising. We've played a song a few times that spoke lyrically of "love holding us together", but it doesn't mention God at all, yet it was written by a Christian artist.

Nicely put. God I love you because you make me feel a certain way. Isn't that Eros love? Aren't we supposed to have Agape love? If our worship is based on Eros then it is wrong. As to Christian artists, they are on the radio because it is a radio hit. There is nothing wrong with that. But, just because they are Christian doesn't mean it is a worship song. Scott Stapp of Creed is Christian. I love the music but nothing of Creed should be used as a worship song. Some can be used as a message like as been suggested here.

Thanks for all the comments. I am glad some people in this world know what worship is.

 

[Gozreht]

I wouldn't like that, either, Gozreht. I love Adele's voice, but there's a time and a place to listen to Adele, and there's a time and a place to listen to music intended to draw us closer to God.

I'm a church pianist, and sometimes I play contemporary music with spiritual lyrics, but I hesitate to play anything most of the congregation (and our small congregation includes a lot of older people) wouldn't recognize.

The pianist who came before me, God rest his dear soul, played a lot of popular music for offertories. Some of it could be taken in a spiritual way, and some of it was just pretty music, but he was justified for playing some of it on the fly like he did because it related to the minister's sermon. For example, one Sunday our minister preached that "Christianity is not rocket science," and our pianist played Elton John's "Rocket Man" for the offertory--which brought a lot of smiles from the congregation. The point was well-taken, though, and, anyway, we weren't singing the song. Telling this story makes me miss our friend and piano player, who died of a heart attack a few years ago.

I think what he did was fine every once in awhile, but I have a problem with playing or singing popular songs just for the sake of playing or singing them, especially if they're in no way, shape or form spiritual. I'm just a middle-age Baby Boomer and like contemporary music, but I also think it's wrong for churches to assume that "all young people want to hear contemporary music." My 19-year-old loves some of the old hymns, and he's no fuddy-duddy. Likewise, I recently spoke to the husband of a younger friend and was surprised to hear him say that he and my friend (both in their late 30s, not fuddy-duddies, either) really like to hear some of the traditional music, too.

Thank you for your story. I agree with you. We did a couple of songs like Desparado and SHow me the way (Styx) to talk about how the world is looking but can't find any answers. Fine. It drives a point home that those without a spiritual relationship is lost. But we never sang it as a worship song.

And it was a 19 year old who asked me why were singing this song (Kings Of Leon). She thought it was weird and inappropriate.

On my own level I am one who likes harder rock music. But as I tell people it's not the style but the message. Even the reason can be overshadowed by the messaqe. Someone could say they are singing it to God and have all the right motives but God will not be honored if the words are wrong.

Thank you writermomof3.

 

[Gozreht]

I grew up in an RM church and someone sang "Praying for Time" by George Michael at a service . A song with lyrics that say "But we'll take our chances because God's stopped keeping score."

Suffice it to say I no longer attend that church.

Good for you for having convictions!

 

[writermomof3]

Wow, it takes me awhile to respond, doesn't it, but . . . you're welcome, Gozreht.

Thank you, too. I think this topic is something it's good for church musicians and congregations to talk about. I sure don't want to judge any other musician's intentions in playing a piece or playing something in a certain style, yet I'd say we do have to do a little judging of our own as we select music to sing or play. If I don't think the average person in my church would find a spiritual message in a song I'm playing, even if it is just instrumental and they aren't hearing someone sing the words, then chances are I won't play it.

I'm no fuddy-duddy, though.

Today was All Saint's Day--you know, the Sunday following Halloween--and I felt a little weird playing my planned boogie-woogie version of "When the Saints Go Marching In" during offertory, because it followed an especially sad and dreary prayer time. But my pastor had asked me to play something upbeat, so . . . I did. People said they liked it, though, so maybe it did boost spirits a bit.

 

[writermomof3]

I keep using the phrase "fuddy-duddy." I'll try to find a new one next time I post--LOL! But just add, I can see why "Desperado" and "Show Me the Way" would work, just like "Rocket Man" worked that Sunday our minister preached about how Christianity isn't rocket science.

It all depends on the makeup of the congregation, but, like you, I've known younger people who say they appreciate old hymns as much as they like the new ones.

 

[RecoveringwithChrist]

I agree with you man. There are a lot of secular songs that I can listen to on my own where the person is singing of love to a `someone` and I just replace that someone with Jesus and I can worship on my own. But I wouldn`t be able to play them in the church because not everyone has that same ability as me, so we have to take everyone in the congregation into account, not just assume that everyone is a quick witted as us.

And btw there are some songs that are so bad that I can`t even listen to at all. Then there are songs that don`t even have words but have some sort of resonance of eternity in them and they make me feel connected to God better then songs with words in them... sometimes. Hallelujah!

 

[writermomof3]

Hallelujah, indeed!

Some songs don't span generations, either. There's an old Supertramp song, "Downstream," that I think is just beautiful, and I have no idea how it was meant when it was written, but I definitely feel closer to God when I hear it. But only old hippies from the '70s could possibly interpret it that way!

Actually, now that I think about it, I guess it would be a prettier wedding song for old hippies from the '70s--LOL.

Beautiful melody, though.

 

[Gozreht]

Check this out. Borowed it from another blog. It says everything about the church today in this respect.

Parody Of Our Modern Church Service - YouTube

How do you post the actual video instead of the link?