1. Saying Goodbye to a Great Staffer: Edial
    Please help me wish Edial a wonderful blessed journey as he steps down from CF staff.
    His footprint on our ministry will always remain but his presence will be greatly missed. I'm sure he will come around as a member to all his favorite forums but for now please join me at his profile page to wish him many thanks for the years of service he has brought to us all.
    All of us on CF staff will miss him dearly!!
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice

Welcome to Christian Forums, a friendly forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
  • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
  • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting after you have posted 20 posts and have received 5 likes.
  • Access to private conversations with other members.

We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Music question

Discussion in 'No Creed But Christ - Restoration Movement' started by Gozreht, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. Gozreht

    Gozreht New Member

    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    24
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Republican
    Faith:
    Christian
    Before I go on, have you all been to some of these other threads? How many weirdos call themselves Christian and have no idea what scripture really says. And how many strange ideas that are out there. I think I may want to stick to this group where I belong.

    Anyway, for the past couple of weeks our music during worship time has had some elements in it I am not too sitting too easy with. We actually were playing Adele's Rolling in the Deep as a welcome/pre-service song. Some have tried to say it is about Christ and His love, but I doubt it. But, I can handle this song I guess. However, I wasn't there the other day and one of the people said we sang a song by Kings of Leon called Use Somebody as an actual worship song. Now keep in mind I wasn't there to back this news up. Some of the words deal with needing somebody and I can see where we can substitute Jesus in for this part of the song. The point where I have a problem is some of the other songs that this group sings is blatantly sexual and seems inappropriate. Google Kings of Leon and Genius lyrics and you'll see what I mean.

    I am not a fuddy duddy. I love heavy metal (christian type especially) but I would not use Judas Priest to worship with.

    Where do we draw the line? Am I wrong to feel this way? I know we have to reach out to this lost generation of the human race but how far do we go before we have crosse the line?
     
  2. Tirbidian

    Tirbidian Guest

    Personally, there are some popular songs that have made it into our worship too that frankly, I don't think are remotely Christ-like, though they are popular in Christian circles. They sound 'spiritual' but some of the lyrics are anything but if you look at them closer.
     
  3. Gozreht

    Gozreht New Member

    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    24
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Republican
    Faith:
    Christian
    See, that is what I tried to tell our worship minister. Just because it is a cool song and it is popular on the radio doesn't mean it is a "worship" song.

    It is empty worship which means it is not from the spirit which is what He wants from us, true worshipers.

    It's not about the style, although that really does help, it's about the message.

    There are times for praise songs, there are times for worship songs, there are times for welcoming songs, there are times for reflective songs. But they all should have some basis in belief in Christ, that's including old hymns because some of them are worthless as well.

    Thanks for answering.
     
  4. Gozreht

    Gozreht New Member

    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    24
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Republican
    Faith:
    Christian
    I posted a poll on this topic in the non-denominational forum. Here is the link if anyone wants to comment and/or vote. I posted it there since it was for anyone.


    http://www.christianforums.com/t7636217/
     
  5. Episaw

    Episaw Always learning

    Messages:
    424
    Likes Received:
    14
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    AU-Democrats
    Faith:
    Non-Denominational
    I think this comment may give us a clue. I think that heavy metal, christian or otherwise is appaling, because of the spirit that gave rise to it which is totally satanic. There is nothing beautiful about secular heavy metal and its words. I don't even call it music. It is more a cacophany of sound. As christians, we don't need to copy it.

    What my comment shows is that we are in the world of personal opinion so we need discernment to sort out the good from the bad. Unfortunately as the church has by and large relegated the supernatural to the "not required" bin as we can work out everything for ourselves, so what God thinks is rather irrelevant.

    This only shows we are building our church, not his. We focus on being popular or relevant, or with it, or modern, or appealing or whatever adjective you can conjure up.

    In my fellowship, we don't have praise or worship songs. We sing songs that reflect where we are in our walk with the Lord. ATM our songs tend to be expressions of how much we want to know Him and how much we love to worship him. They can be fast or slow, long or short, full on or reflective.

    What is important is the words and our heart condition. According to scripture, worship is not singing songs. Worship is surrender and if the singers are not surrendered to the Lord, they are just mouthing words without any meaning or relevance.

    Last week we finished with a song and the presence of God was so strong, we could not move. Everyone just sat or knelt in silence in his presence, soaking in the experience. The meeting started at 5pm and finished about 11pm.

    Just shows you what can happen when you allow God to be in charge.
     
  6. Toynbee

    Toynbee The SUM of Thy Word is truth...

    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    260
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    I prefer acapella music, though I'm not dogmatic about it.

    However, whenever I've visited churches with instrumental music, I've observed several things:

    1) People don't sing, they just listen.
    2) Who may sing, barely does - and if they do few can hear them above the din of the band.
    3) People seem more edified by what they're taking in rather than what they're giving.
    4) The congregations are generally "shallow." Little in the way of fellowship; the auditorium empties quite rapidly.
    5) The music isn't that spiritual, the lyrics not that edifying.
    6) I tried to sing the few songs I sort of knew - but could barely hear my own voice above the din.

    Don't like it.
    Not impressed with it.
     
  7. Megagog

    Megagog Guest

    If you're going to ignore them because of their sexual lyrics why don't you ignore the Bible because of the Song of Songs?
     
  8. hopeinGod

    hopeinGod A voice crying in the wilderness

    Messages:
    1,569
    Likes Received:
    146
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Republican
    Faith:
    Christian
    As a former worship team member who played upright bass and bass guitar for several years at a 300+ member church, I know what it is like to lead a congregation in scripture songs, which were a more dominant form in years gone by. Today, I see a greater push by more Christians than not to make the church more relevant and lively, to draw in the sinner with the use of uptempo beats and secular noise making.

    As I see it, the best Christian tunes are the sort written in the 70s by groups like Maranatha. Sure, they don't contain the mainstream secular feel, but they were written with worship in mind, not what we have now, what I call "mosh pit" praise services.

    I don't attend church any longer because of the noise. I'm a little older now, I wear hearing aids, and I suffer with tinnitus (ringing ears) that started when I was in the military (artillery) due to ear damage, the destruction of hair cells in the inner ear. Today's kids wear iPod earbuds with volumes turned up to their highest, not realizing they may soon begin to hear a ringing that will never go away.

    The church wants people to know the Lord heals, while at the same time provides plenty of opportunity for ear damage.
     
  9. Gozreht

    Gozreht New Member

    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    24
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Republican
    Faith:
    Christian
    Well, there is a difference. The S of S is an analogy between Jesus and the Church (the Bride)/ God and His people and is within context of an appropriate relationship. They are also not used as a worship song as a whole. This group is about blatant inappropriate sexual activity. If S of S said that the groom sits and masturbates while his bride is on her way there then I would doubt that is actual scripture. See what I mean?
     
  10. gav1nzdad

    gav1nzdad Somewhere in the middle

    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    5
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

    2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you

    I believe we should be careful when we try to be "relevant" that we don't compromise what we stand for and what we are called to be.

    Is the ultimate goal to bring the lost to Christ? Sure it is. But if have to tailor our attempts to fit in with the world, what are we actually bringing them to? A watered down, "lukewarm" facade of religion?

    In short, it should be about what the world "needs" and not about what it "wants".
     
  11. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus Member since March 7 2006

    Messages:
    552
    Likes Received:
    2,799
    Gender:
    Male
    Marital Status:
    Private
    Politics:
    US-Libertarian
    Faith:
    Christian-Seeker
    :thumbsup:
     
  12. Touma

    Touma In on the cover up

    Messages:
    7,102
    Likes Received:
    689
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Christian-Seeker
    So...Jesus is going to climb our tree and go after our breasts? SoS is not about Jesus and the Church. It is about two lovers. The only way to say that SoS is about Jesus and the Church is to completely not read the book and believe what other people say.

    I mean, there are several times where the woman has to tell the man not to awaken passion prematurely (IE, have sex before marriage). Is that something Jesus is going to do? Think not. Frankly, reading Jesus into the SoS is a little...weird.



    NOW, as to the OP. I do have an issue with the music of the churches. Most are self serving songs. All about me, me, me. All about making me feel good. All about expressing my feelings. All about what Jesus can do for me.

    What about simple worship of the King of Kings? Or is that too boring?

    People are in love with themselves, and they love Jesus because they have this notion that Jesus loves all the things about them, that they too love.
     
  13. Gozreht

    Gozreht New Member

    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    24
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Republican
    Faith:
    Christian
    True.

    What most worship ministers/leaders do not understand is that worship is not for the unbeliever. They do not know what to worship. Worship is for the believer. They are already saved. They need to have a time that is uplifting and to be a reminder of what God has done and who He is. Songs need to be directed towards God, not directed for man. Even the sermons need to be uplifting and about God. But sermons today are too busy explaining relevant lifestyles. It's more of a free counseling session and that leaves too many believers thirsty. Not thirsty for more, just thirsty.
     
  14. Gozreht

    Gozreht New Member

    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    24
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Republican
    Faith:
    Christian
    Read it plenty of times. As we both agreed, it is an analogy, you just happened to try and fit literal terms into analogical meanings. My wifes hair is not like a flock of goats descending down mt gilead. And I would assume no woman would find that romantic. Especially comparing her teeth to sheep's wool and having all of her teeth. Of course Jesus didn't really climb a tree in this verse. Read the whole passage but do not do it as a literal love letter.

    If it is not about Jesus then what is it about? Sex only? Two lovers vying for each other's attention? Why would it be in the Bible? But I guess this is not the thread to start this on. Want to start another? Could be interesting...


    Now that is fantastic!
     
  15. LekryceMack

    LekryceMack Newbie

    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    2
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Faith:
    Christian
    I wouldnt nessesarly look at it that way. Music is power. God created music because of its power and influence in ones life. (music that ups the faith in Christ of course.) We all know how the devil has it as a weapon, and we all know how some folks praise the gift more than the gift giver. But as one saying "its all about me and how god makes me feel". Well you have to understand there are different types of worship/praise songs, and at the same time its deffintely not wrong for one to express in music how god has blessed one and made on feel in ones choice of music. (Christian rap etc...idk about metal...just saying). I know what you mean though, but one needs to stop focusing on other ppls "flaws in music or worship" and just focus on their own. I noticed this thread everybody is pointing fingers and yes some true and some just OPINIONS for reasons of some sort. But i learned if the music is about God our lord and the lyrics are deff about our Lord our savior (that of course reflect legit worship lyrics not satanic ones) than why complain because "Oh the sound is too based" "Oh, the beats are too high" or "Well nobody else in the staduim is jumping and chanting so his prescence isnt here, so the band isnt doing a good job." Excuses and excuses. Music is Power. God created it for a reason. It is a FACT that their are different generes of christian music because not everybody is the same. At the end of the day, music is to be enjoyed, if you dont like a particular christian song for whatever reason, dont listen to it. But remember worship is not about us it is about our Lord. And we have the free will and his grace to express it different ways.
     
  16. Touma

    Touma In on the cover up

    Messages:
    7,102
    Likes Received:
    689
    Marital Status:
    Single
    Politics:
    US-Others
    Faith:
    Christian-Seeker
    Yes, it is about sex. It is about two young lovers, and how the fall in love, and their sexual encounter. Three or four times, the woman mentions to the man not to awaken passion (have premarital sex), and then after marriage, she talks about how he is making ....excited...and she says it is okay to awaken the passion now! Can we say that this is really talking about Jesus and the Church? This is silly to think.
     
  17. rumblefish

    rumblefish Newbie

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Faith:
    Christian
    Regarding music specifically.
    My life has been a succession of addictions, with music being my earliest one, and to this day, the hardest to give up.

    The scripture shows us satans involvement in music here......
    Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. (Ezekiel 28:13-14)

    satan was clearly a cherub angel, created for worship, and his fall took with it, the power, the knowledge, and the will to corrupt music in every way he could find.
    Half the songs sung at my church, now contain phrases and lyrics, I can find no scriptural reference for, including such lines as "from the ashes we will rise". That is satanic in origin, with the only reference in either Christendom, or the secular world of anything rising from ashes, is the phoenix, who is used in occultic and masonic circles constantly as a refrenece to lucifer. Why is it in my small community church, of spirit filled people?. The answer is because the music belongs to God, but satan is the corrupter, the defiler, the counterfeiter, and is not only in the lyrics of the obvious secular places, but infiltrates our churches with his mutterings, and peepings.

    I have cut all music from my life, and have been clearer in my thoughts than I have been for more years than i care to admit. I no longer have to be listening to music in the car, I pray instead.

    Just a word of encouragement too, when dealing with the saints, the professed believers in God, address the spirit behind their actions, don't be an accuser of the brethren, that too is a job satan already owns.
     
  18. notreligus

    notreligus Member

    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    10
    Faith:
    Non-Denominational
    Do you expect to be the one who is worshipped, or is it God Almighty who is to be worshipped? Be careful about saying such things as it is God who wants praise and worship and He is more interested in the heart than the stage volume. If you prefer to worship elsewhere, do it, and leave others alone to worship as they are led to. If you don't like instruments, don't use them. Don't criticize those who do.
     
  19. Gozreht

    Gozreht New Member

    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    24
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Republican
    Faith:
    Christian
    Touma,

    I know what you are saying but you also have ot look at the whole concept. This is about a relationship. One that is done the right way. In the physical world we are supposed to have one partner, and one only, and are supposed to remain faithful to them. Not to have pre-marital sex or put them into a situation of making them feel pressured into it. Now that can not be completely made into an analogy of Jesus and the church/His people piece by piece but still means that we have a reltionship with Christ. No other God, not wanting others, not making them jeaous, not making them feel anxious or worried about the relationship. This is a two way street relation. SO although I see exactly what you are saying just like the rest of the OT, it is a shadow of the coming Christ. Otherwise this book is bogus and should not be used as anything by a Harlequin romance novel. That I do not see as a legitimate solution. There are lessons we learn from SoS.
     
  20. Gozreht

    Gozreht New Member

    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    24
    Marital Status:
    Married
    Politics:
    US-Republican
    Faith:
    Christian
    If you don't mind, could you explain how it was an addiction?

    There is a study that says he may have been the leader of worship for the angels. And I do believe he is there corrupting music. But music is just organized sound. It's the words and ideas behind the music that he distorts. He can never distort actual true worship. If the song is sung to God and about God in an uplifting way then he can never touch it but as you say...
    That is your best point!


    Although the phrase itself is not in the Bible it can be biblical. I just don't know the rest of the song. We die. We are buried. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, but then we are resurrected, so hence we rise from the ashes. But again I don't know the rest of the song.

    Good question. Same here in my larger church. It's about the cukture of the church as a whole today. We have lost the main essence of what worhsip and worhsip service is all about.

    I am glad this has worked for you.
     
Loading...