The question of Mt 24 & //s is not whether they are all or nothing fulfilled. The question is whether we have grasped and included the allowance in our thinking. There is no question that 24A was about its times; that is the ordinary reading of the opening questions, and is the weight of Mt's account since telling the vineyard parable in ch 21. The question is whether we are figuring in the allowance that the Father might not impose the final day of judgement right after the DofJ.
Mt 24 is not all or nothing fulfilled because of the allowance
- Thread starter Interplanner
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PhillipLaSpino
Achieve; don’t plunder!
Interplanner I just don't understand how your thinking concerning Matt.24. Let's lay the groundwork.
1. Matthew is a written history of Christ's earthly ministry. He came to the Jews as the Jewish Messiah. He came only to the lost sheep of the house of Isrial, this because He was the Jewish Messiah they had been looking for.
2. The apostles and the Lord himself were under the law. We know Jesus while on earth kept every aspect of that Jewish law.
3. The Christian church was unknown to the apostles, having not been revealed to them. As a matter of fact, the apostles, beginning with Peter did not understand that the Gentiles would be grafted into the future New Covenant until some 20 years after the Lord assended into heaven.
4. With this in mind, the questions the apostles asked Jesus in Matt.24 were Jewish questions concerning Jewish matters alone. In this the whole of Matthew 24 has nothing to do with the church, this including the destruction of the Temple, and the vengeance that would befall the Jews and the land for the next 2000 years.
Concerning Matt.21, who do you understand the husbandman to be? Who are the servants that were sent, and who was the son that was killed?
I also understand that if the Jews HAD received Christ this including the leaders of the country, God's blessing would have come down upon them as a great rain storm. But they did not receive their Messiah, and in this Matt.24 will, shall be fulfilled with, and in them. This in no way includes the church!
Keep your answers short, if you like answer one at a time and we can compare your thoughts with mine. You have to stay on Scripture because that's all I know!
Phil
1. Matthew is a written history of Christ's earthly ministry. He came to the Jews as the Jewish Messiah. He came only to the lost sheep of the house of Isrial, this because He was the Jewish Messiah they had been looking for.
2. The apostles and the Lord himself were under the law. We know Jesus while on earth kept every aspect of that Jewish law.
3. The Christian church was unknown to the apostles, having not been revealed to them. As a matter of fact, the apostles, beginning with Peter did not understand that the Gentiles would be grafted into the future New Covenant until some 20 years after the Lord assended into heaven.
4. With this in mind, the questions the apostles asked Jesus in Matt.24 were Jewish questions concerning Jewish matters alone. In this the whole of Matthew 24 has nothing to do with the church, this including the destruction of the Temple, and the vengeance that would befall the Jews and the land for the next 2000 years.
Concerning Matt.21, who do you understand the husbandman to be? Who are the servants that were sent, and who was the son that was killed?
I also understand that if the Jews HAD received Christ this including the leaders of the country, God's blessing would have come down upon them as a great rain storm. But they did not receive their Messiah, and in this Matt.24 will, shall be fulfilled with, and in them. This in no way includes the church!
Keep your answers short, if you like answer one at a time and we can compare your thoughts with mine. You have to stay on Scripture because that's all I know!
Phil
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I don't know where you get 20 years between Lk 24 and Acts 2, when Peter preached that all the nations would be blessed in the Seed!
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Mt 16 says I will build my church on the thing Peter confessed. The term is a group, a gathering. No one knew what a "church" was; that's an anglo term from later. They did know what a group was and it started right then.
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Mt 21: the husbandman or owner is God. The vineyard is God's redeemed people and work on earth, not confined to Israel, ever. The servants sent were OT prophets (the vineyard analogy begins in Isaiah). The tenants was Israel up to that point. The son was Christ.
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PhillipLaSpino
Achieve; don’t plunder!
Zeke, yes this is a parable of the future of Israel and it's people. It does include the church in the rapture. But Jesus is revealing to the apostles things they understood nothing off. As far as the apostles were concerned, they were comparing the future events to Noah's day.
Before the flood, mockers were killed, 8 excaped. The foundation of the church is built upon the apostles, the Jews first. Saved Jews are Christian's that will be caught away with the Lord, and we Gentiles who are adopted sons and daughters (Christian's) will go up with them, for we will also have received the Jewish promises and blessings.
Unbelieving Jews, with unbelieving Gentiles are left, these will inherit the Jewish curses; Ver.51, And he (Jesus) "Shall cut him asunder 9in two,) and appoint him his portion with the hyprocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Hope this clarifies my position?
See my tread on 3 groups God is dealing with,
Phil
Before the flood, mockers were killed, 8 excaped. The foundation of the church is built upon the apostles, the Jews first. Saved Jews are Christian's that will be caught away with the Lord, and we Gentiles who are adopted sons and daughters (Christian's) will go up with them, for we will also have received the Jewish promises and blessings.
Unbelieving Jews, with unbelieving Gentiles are left, these will inherit the Jewish curses; Ver.51, And he (Jesus) "Shall cut him asunder 9in two,) and appoint him his portion with the hyprocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Hope this clarifies my position?
See my tread on 3 groups God is dealing with,
Phil
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zeke37
IMO...
no. there is no rapture n Mat24
some are to be taken in the flood because they know not
and some are to be left working, and thus blessed at His Coming
well, Christ was doing just that
THEY and WE understand Noah. we have read/heard that account umpteen times
ok
I wish u'd learn the difference between Israel and Jews.
plus, there is no rapture/gathering in Mat24's latter half
well, I already know your position, but what u wrote did not clarify it.
believers and unbelievers both will experience the flood
some will be taken in it, and some will be left working through it
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