Moving the Garden East of Eden..Literally: Was Eden Originally in Asia?

[Calminian]

Where to start? You make a lot of unfounded accusations and false doctrines up by not looking at what the Word says, and you have twisted what I have said in honesty to you -trampled my pearls, so to speak. You asked me a question and I said God laid it on my heart to pray this daily for a time: Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy "Torah".

And he began to open my eyes to what is actually written in Torah, and opened my eyes to what was written and called "Scripture" by Jesus, meaning the writings of Enoch 1.

As to Enoch, we know we have exactly what Jesus and the Apostles had in that book, because the copies of Enoch in the Dead Sea Scrolls completely agree with the Ethiopian Enoch which has been in the Ethiopian Ge'ez "Bible" since the Gospel was received by the Jews in Ethiopia in the first century.
In fact: we have as much proof for the proof for having the copies of the authentic writing of Enoch the prophet, the seventh from Adam, as we have of the Tenach, for we have nothing older than the copies of fragments of copies of those books that are in the DSS.
I'll address the rest of your false accusations with Scriptures in later posts, but one at a time.

Well hopefully you're not going to come back with the same lies about laqach the hebrew word for taken, and adam the hebrew word for man. Those have been refuted.

And you left out the part where you called me an unbeliever for trodding on your precious pearls, which is a classic tactic of a false teacher. All I've done is examine your pearls by the Bible. Turns out they're fake. These arguments you're making from hebrew don't hold any water.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

And of course this is the lie you made up about Ezekiel 28, hoping no one would read the context which reveals this was speaking about a cherub—an angel.

The word man in hebrew is adam, used hundreds of time in the old testament. You keep trying to say that it should always be translated Adam, which is utter nonsense.

Who's lying?
Look at the Scripture:

The Hebrew word "Adam" is English "man". You need to know that every time the Hebrew word "Adam", is written, it is translated, mostly, "man" in the English, but a few times other words: never is it translated as "cherub"

The Hebrew "Adam" is the name YHWH gave our human being race: Genesis 5:2 "male and female made he them and called their name Adam"...

As to Ezekiel, never does he say satan is a cherub, nor does the passage in Ezekiel ever call the one being spoken to a satan; which was your contention and which is your own myth believed falsely from a fable made up by misguided men's ignorance.
"The King of Tyre, the Prince of Tyre, is an Adam person, and the Adam is a defiled, cast down from Eden, fallen, dead in spirit former son of God. YHWH lets this arrogant king know what he thinks of him, an unclean thing, and of his end. His beginning is from Adam, and he is an Adam person who was in the Garden of God -Paradise, as the Greek states- in Mount Eden of the heavens, above.

A cherub guarded Adam in the Garden, and Cherubim drove Adam out and "barred the door".



Revised Standard version:
Ezekiel 28:
14 With an anointed cherub as guardian I placed you;
you were on the holy mountain of God;
you walked among the stones of fire.

But in vs 16, the Cherubim drove the Adam/man, out of the Garden:

16 Of the abundance of thy merchandise thou hast filled thy storehouses with iniquity, and hast sinned: therefore thou hast been cast down wounded from the mount of God, and the cherub has brought thee out of the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thy heart has been lifted up because of thy beauty; thy knowledge has been corrupted with thy beauty: because of the multitude of thy sins I have cast thee to the ground, I have caused thee to be put to open shame before kings.
18 Because of the multitude of thy sins and the iniquities of thy merchandise, I have profaned thy sacred things; and I will bring fire out of the midst of thee, this shall devour thee; and I will make thee to be ashes upon thy land before all that see thee.
19 And all that know thee among the nations shall groan over thee: thou art gone to destruction, and thou shalt not exist any more.


The cherubim drove Adam out of the Garden, and not a satan out of the Garden, and the Garden is the Holy Mount of God, Paradise, where the Tree of Life is, and it is in the heavenly realm of the stretched out earth.

The Garden is Paradise, states Jesus, corroborating what is written, and the Tree of Life is in the midst of it, and it is in the third heaven, as Paul said, when he went there.

Septuagint to English:
11 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation for the prince of Tyre, and say to him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou art a seal of resemblance, and crown of beauty.
13 Thou wast in the delight of the paradise of God; thou hast bound upon thee every precious stone, the sardius, and topaz, and emerald, and carbuncle, and sapphire, and jasper, and silver, and gold, and ligure, and agate, and amethyst, and chrysolite, and beryl, and onyx: and thou hast filled thy treasures and thy stores in thee with gold.



14 From the day that thou wast created thou wast with the cherub: I set thee on the holy mount of God; thou wast in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast faultless in thy days, from the day that thou wast created, until iniquity was found in thee.
16 Of the abundance of thy merchandise thou hast filled thy storehouses with iniquity, and hast sinned: therefore thou hast been cast down wounded from the mount of God, and the cherub has brought thee out of the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thy heart has been lifted up because of thy beauty; thy knowledge has been corrupted with thy beauty: because of the multitude of thy sins I have cast thee to the ground, I have caused thee to be put to open shame before kings.



18 Because of the multitude of thy sins and the iniquities of thy merchandise, I have profaned thy sacred things; and I will bring fire out of the midst of thee, this shall devour thee; and I will make thee to be ashes upon thy land before all that see thee. 19 And all that know thee among the nations shall groan over thee: thou art gone to destruction, and thou shalt not exist any more.

 

[Calminian]

Who's lying?
Look at the Scripture:

The Hebrew word "Adam" is English "man". You need to know that every time the Hebrew word "Adam", is written, it is translated, mostly, "man" in the English, but a few times other words: never is it translated as "cherub"

Nor should it be here. It should be translate man, not Adam, for it is speaking about the King of Tyre. But Ez. 28 is speaking about a cherub also, and uses the word cherub. That's the part you're lying about.

"The King of Tyre, the Prince of Tyre, is an Adam person,...

Yet another lie. No the King of Tyer is not called an adam person, whatever the means. The hebrew word for man is adam. The text implies he's a human who is also a symbolic picture of a fallen cherub—one who was present in the Garden of God and who sinned.

A cherub guarded Adam in the Garden, and Cherubim drove Adam out and "barred the door".

lie number 3! The Ezekiel cherub is a completely different cherub than the cherubim (plural) placed at the entrance of the Garden.

Revised Standard version:
Ezekiel 28:
14 With an anointed cherub as guardian I placed you;
you were on the holy mountain of God;
you walked among the stones of fire.

The hebrew word here is cover, cçakak, saw-kak´. You cherry picked one translation to find matching english words, which is expected, but easily refuted.

In Genesis 3 account, a different hebrew word is used—shamar, shaw-mar´ - keep.

Completely different word and meaning than the one used in Ezekiel. Sawkak is the word used in Exodus describing the cherubim that Moses had built in the tabernacle.

Ex. 37:9 The cherubim spread out their wings above, and covered the mercy seat with their wings. They faced one another; the faces of the cherubim were toward the mercy seat.​

Cherubim don't protect God, but rather cover his brilliance and glory, for the sake of man who is too sinful to look upon him. This is the same word used in Ezekiel. "the cherub that covereth." This is a typical way to describe cherubim, and has nothing to do with guarding God or anyone or thing else.

The Cherubim in the Garden, were to shamar the path to the tree of life. They were to keep watch of it, in other words. This was the same word Cain used in his sharp response to God.

Gen. 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother’s keeper? ​

In other words, "is Abel one of my flocks that I should keep watch of him??" (still hard to believe anyone would respond like that to God.)

So as anyone can see, these are different words with different applications. Yet you tried to use an english translation to tie them together.

The cherubim drove Adam out of the Garden, and not a satan out of the Garden,

Lie number 5 is it? (losing count) The Bible says God drove the man out, and placed cherubim at the east entrance. It does not say cherubim drove the man out.

The Garden is Paradise, states Jesus, corroborating what is written, and the Tree of Life is in the midst of it, and it is in the third heaven, as Paul said, when he went there.

Nowhere in scripture is the Garden ever called Paradise. There's not way to link the two by that term.

Septuagint to English:

Oy! Here we go again. This is getting really desperate. I think the above makes my point, so nuff said.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Well hopefully you're not going to come back with the same lies about laqach the hebrew word for taken, and adam the hebrew word for man. Those have been refuted.

And you left out the part where you called me an unbeliever for trodding on your precious pearls, which is a classic tactic of a false teacher. All I've done is examine your pearls by the Bible. Turns out they're fake. These arguments you're making from hebrew don't hold any water.

Nope, you are not a believer in what is written, and my pearls are precious. Do you know what pearls are? They are treasures from the Word, in this instance, and God's word is rich with all manner of gold, silver, rubies and pearls....for those who seek.
You can seek, too, and find from the Word, yourself, not just believe fables made up by men.
`````
Now: I dealt with the name of our human being race in my last post, used in the Hebrew throughout the Tenach...so on to the "laqach", and the rapture of Adam from earth below to Eden above, to the Paradise/Garden of God.

The word "laqach" means: 1) to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away

The word cannot mean anything other than what it means, in all is usages. Your gripe is not in the word itself, but in the fact of where Adam was "laqach" to, in Genesis.

Adam was "laqach" from Earth below to Eden above -which is the holy Mountain of God-and to the Garden of Righteousness/Paradise [as the Greek says], in Eden.

Enoch was "laqach" to Eden above -raptured/removed form the midst of earth and transformed in body and put in Eden, before the flood.

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took/laqach him.
Elijah was also "laqach" raptured to Eden above, but not in a transformed body like Enoch, and is returning with Moses, who is also in his resurrected and unchanged body and is with Elijah there [and they were seen on the Mount of Transfiguration/Mount Hermon/Mount Zion in the North of Israel, speaking with Jesus about His upcomiing death in Jerusalem, which they were the eyewitnesses of and which they shall return to preach the same about, in the streets of Jerusalem for the 3 1/2 years].

2Ki 2:5 And the sons of the prophets that [were] at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away/laqach thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know [it]; hold ye your peace.

2Ki 2:10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: [nevertheless], if thou see me [when I am] taken/laqach from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be [so].
2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, [there appeared] a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up/ascended by a whirlwind into heaven.

Psalm 82:1 אלהים 'elohiym נצב natsab
עדה `edah אל 'el
שפט shaphat קרב qereb אלהים 'elohiym
[[A Psalm of Asaph.]] God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.



Psalm 82:6 אמר 'amar אלהים 'elohiym בן ben עליון 'elyown
I have said you are gods, the sons of Elohym
Psalm 82:7
אכן 'aken מות muwth אדם 'adam נפל naphal אחד 'echad שר sar

Truly/nevertheless you shall die like Adam, the one/echad fallen prince.

YHWH Elohym "laqach" Adam, and put him in the Garden -Genesis 2:15.
Adam was taken away from earth below, and put in Eden above.

laqach 1) to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away

Ezekiel 28 shows the Holy Mountain of God in Eden above -and also tells us in the Hebrew that Adam was there, perfect, and was cast out -driven out by the guardians, the Cherubim, as the Septuagint says, and so we know the Hebrew says that -which several translations to English also state.

In Psalm 82, the sons of God/elohym who are the judges of earth are warned by the Mighty El/God [the LORD] that they must do justice in the earth or else they are in danger of dying like Adam and being cast down as that one/echad prince/sar -former son of God, was.
Read the Hebrew for yourself and see that Adam was there, with them -the sons of God- in heaven's realm and did die and was cast down and out of God's holy Mountain.

 

[Calminian]

Nope, you are not a believer in what is written, and my pearls are precious.

LOL! Your pearls are phony and leave an stain on stain on the neck.

what's funny is, they don't even look real. Even a child can see the difference.

The word "laqach" means: 1) to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away

And yet you try to say it means rapture.

The word cannot mean anything other than what it means, in all is usages. Your gripe is not in the word itself, but in the fact of where Adam was "laqach" to, in Genesis.

My gripe is you claim the word means rapture.

Enoch was "laqach" to Eden above -raptured/removed form the midst of earth and transformed in body and put in Eden, before the flood.

Ah, so you admit, you're trying to change the meaning of the word to rapture. Thank you. You're making my work easier.

2Ki 2:5 And the sons of the prophets that [were] at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away/laqach thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know [it]; hold ye your peace.

The word means to take.

Ex. 2:1 And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took to wife a daughter of Levi.​

So now we're to believe that a man raptured a wife to himself? Do you realize how silly that is?

Do you not realize this word appears over 900 times in the O.T.?

You need more than just the word to try to prove it means rapture. yet you keep quoting the hebrew as if it somehow helps you. Yet it's the hebrew that directly refutes you.

YHWH Elohym "laqach" Adam, and put him in the Garden -Genesis 2:15.
Adam was taken away from earth below, and put in Eden above.

You keep repeating this folly over and over, and don't seem to see what a silly argument you are making. I can quote you hundreds of instances in scripture where laqach cannot possibly mean raptured. Yet you seem to think it can always mean that. Yet even in your own definition that you site, raptured isn't one of the options.

Ezekiel 28 shows the Holy Mountain of God in Eden above -and also tells us in the Hebrew that Adam was there, perfect, and was cast out -driven out by the guardians,

Yes, you've repeated this lie over and over. It's been thoroughly refuted at every turn.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Septuagint Greek To English, Ezekiel 28: Adam is in the Garden of Righteousness, in God's Holy Mount Eden, and is driven out by the guardian Cherubim.
The Prince of Tyre is an Adam person, as the Hebrew states in vs 2 of Ezekiel 28: the prince of Tyre is an Adam, and not God, not a Cherub.
He is a lowlife, cast out of Eden's holy Mount; a wanna-be god and descendant of the first Adam, and an Adam person, himself, and bearing the guilt of the sin of pride against the Creator:

vs 1 [FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena]1 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 And thou, son of man, say to the prince of Tyrus/[/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena][Hebrew [/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena]צר [/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena] Tsor , Thus saith the Lord; Because thine heart has been exalted, and thou hast said, I am God, I have inhabited the dwelling of God in the heart of the sea; yet thou art man/Adam and not God,


[/FONT]

[FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena] 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation for the prince of Tyre/[Hebrew-[/FONT][FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena]צר Tsor , and say to him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou art a seal of resemblance, and crown of beauty.
13 Thou wast in the delight of the paradise of God; thou hast bound upon thee every precious stone, the sardius, and topaz, and emerald, and carbuncle, and sapphire, and jasper, and silver, and gold, and ligure, and agate, and amethyst, and chrysolite, and beryl, and onyx: and thou hast filled thy treasures and thy stores in thee with gold.
14 From the day that thou wast created thou [wast] with the cherub: I set thee on the holy mount of God; thou wast in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast faultless in thy days, from the day that thou wast created, until iniquity was found in thee.
16 Of the abundance of thy merchandise thou hast filled thy storehouses with iniquity, and hast sinned: therefore thou hast been cast down wounded from the mount of God, and the cherub has brought thee out of the midst of the stones of fire. [/FONT]

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme

YHWH Elohym "laqach" Adam, and put him in the Garden -Genesis 2:15.
Adam was taken away from earth below, and put in Eden above.
​

You keep repeating this folly over and over, and don't seem to see what a silly argument you are making. I can quote you hundreds of instances in scripture where laqach cannot possibly mean raptured. Yet you seem to think it can always mean that. Yet even in your own definition that you site, raptured isn't one of the options. .

You have an exceedingly severe reading comprehension problem -else you are being willfully ignorant, on purpose, to mislead and distort what the Word of God says outright, preferring your fables in its place.

The word laqach means to take away, to remove from one place to another -and to marry, go get, fetch, etc, but always the thing that is laqach has a starting point and an ending point.

The taking away/laqach of Adam from one place/earth below to Eden above, to the Paradise of God defined in Scripture as in the third heaven, is defined in Genesis 2.

Adam's rib was "laqach" right out of his side to build an ishyah for him.
The rib had a starting point and was taken away from that place, and used to build another Adam person, a female Adam [as God called her], as a wife/bride/ishyah, for Adam.

You are dysfunctionally hung up on the word "rapture", which is from the Latin, from the Greek Harpazo/1) to seize, carry off by force, and Harpazo is what the Holy Spirit did to Philip in Acts 8, and was used for Philip's taking away from one place to another in in Acts 8:39 Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

But the Holy Spirit took Philip by rapture, to Azotus

Act 8:40 But Philip was found at Azotus

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Ex. 2:1 And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took to wife a daughter of Levi.​

So now we're to believe that a man raptured a wife to himself? Do you realize how silly that is?
.

As I said in my above post:

You have an exceedingly severe reading comprehension problem -else you are being willfully ignorant, on purpose, to mislead and distort what the Word of God says outright, preferring your fables in its place.

The word laqach means to take away, to remove from one place to another -and to marry, go get, fetch, etc, but always the thing that is laqach has a starting point and an ending point.

"To marry": when the Watching, waiting, betrothed "ishyah" of Christ is raptured/laqach/harpazo to heaven above, she "marries her bridegroom" and has a wedding feast.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I have to re post when I'm back at a real computer because this smartphone does not behave well when trying to write, to, add, or edit, and I lost my post.

 

[Calminian]

You have an exceedingly severe reading comprehension problem -else you are being willfully ignorant, on purpose, to mislead and distort what the Word of God says outright, preferring your fables in its place. ...

Actually what's happening is you're ignoring my responses because you don't know how to deal with them. You're ignoring the point I've made about laqach. I suppose I could keep making it, but it's clear you're not going to respond.

Your problem is not the hebrew but logic. You keep making the argument that since laqach meant one thing on one verse, it can mean that in another and should mean that in all applications. This is not how languages work. And since this is the foundation of your heavenly Eden theory, the whole theory crumbles.

You say you received this knowledge via special revelation where God opened your eyes to this understanding. Instead of doubting you, I listened to your case, and then tested it by scripture. The only thing I can conclude is you've been deceived. Your refusal to respond to my arguments seem to verify this.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I have to re post when I'm back at a real computer because this smartphone does not behave well when trying to write, to, add, or edit, and I lost my post.

The Garden of Eden is called Paradise in Scripture, and also the Garden of Righteousness. Eden is called the "Holy Mount of God", and also, "Mount Zion -of the heavens.

[FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena]http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/septuagint/chapter.asp?book=48&page=28
[/FONT]
JEZEKIEL 28 [FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena]Septuagint to English: 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation for the prince of Tyre, and say to him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou art a seal of resemblance, and crown of beauty. 13 Thou wast in the delight of the paradise of God; [/FONT]

Latin Vulgate to English:
28:13Thou wast in the pleasures of the paradise of God:
in deliciis paradisi Dei

So, Calminian, you are in error in your foolish claim that the Garden of God is not called Paradise in Scripture.
You are also in error to claim that Eden is not in heaven above, when the Scriptures, from the beginning and all throughout, show that it is in the stretched out expanse/firmament which God stretched out on day 2 of creation week, between the two/divided waters of creation, with half above the stretched out expanse/firmament and half below the stretched out firmament expanded firmament, which firmament, stretched out from earth, He named "sha-maym"/ in the Edenic/Hebrew mother tongue, which totally describes the heavens as that expanse between the two/divided waters/mayim.

Heaven is formed from the shin character which first was written showing the two front teeth, and as such, it was used to prefix the Hebrew word for "waters/mayim" and gives us the description of the "heavens" as that expanse between the two/divided/cut -if you will- waters"

From God's Garden of Righteousness, Adam was driven out and cast down by God, using His holy Cherubim who stand to guard the entry with two flaming swords.
Scripture -the Greek Septuagint and other translations and some honest English translations does say that God drove out and cast down to earth below, Adam, through His holy cherub -im [cherub is singular and adding the "m" makes it plural for the "angels" -actually "creatures" who are described with four faces; a lamb face [called a cherub face, in one passage]; Adam face; bull face; eagle face; and from reading Scriptures "beware the Eagles!" -but that's another subject.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

http://www.christianforums.com/t2258745-7/

The Greek "harpazo" is translated 'shall be caught up'
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_d...6-5104.html#17


1) to seize, carry off by force

2) to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly 3) to snatch out or away

AV - catch up 4, take by force 3, catch away 2, pluck 2,
catch 1, pull 1; 13
It is 'rapture' in the English -from the Latin, in the Vulgate.

The Word harpazo is the same as 'laqach, in the Hebrew -though each word has shades of meanings of it's own.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_d...1054-7854.html

deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus
Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405 A.D. Info

You are not familiar with the gathering of the congregation of the LORD to Him in the air, at the great "harpazo" =rapture ="laqach" of the dead in Christ and we who are alive and remain so that that man of sin can be revealed?
That's the point of PAuls comfort to the Thessalonians.
The departing has to come forst, of the congregation of the LORD, and did you know that for 1500 years that word was translated "the departing" -referring to the gathering to the LORD that Paul had just spoken of, that he says must happen before the man of sin can be revealed?

The departing is from the earth, in the passage Paul uses it in, for he says to us that it must come before the man of sin can be revealed, and our presence holds him back from being revealed, but when we are harpazo, caught up, taken out, gathered together with the dead in Christ with the LORD in the air -then the man of sin will be unrestrained and will be revealed.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

We have the Garden, by Scripture, located in the third heaven, and called Paradise, in the Scriptures, in The Greek Septuagint and the Latin Vulgate and in some English translations, and so we can now examine the attempt of Nimrod & Co to build a tower "up to heaven", and enter the Paradise of God, by storming the "Bab of El".
The Bab-El rebellion also proves, by that, that Eden and the Gate of entry to God's Garden of Righteousness is in heaven.

The words "Bab El" mean "Gate of God", or "to" God, and the rebellion was man trying to enter in by another way than the One Way God ordained back, for our Adam race; which is by the blood of Atonement and the regeneration of spirit =which is the adoption into the Living Spirit/Christ- and the regeneration of our bodies by the elemental change of them into the image of the New Man, so that we may enter into His Paradise, in Mount Eden above, where the "stones of fire" are, and where Adam got cast down and out of [which is what the Hebrew words which mention that event of Adam's casting down, mean].

Adam was driven out by God, with the force of the Guardian Cherubim with their flaming swords. The word gate and guard are from the same mother tongue root etymons, and what they gate and guard is God's Paradise, and the "Way to the Tree of Life".

Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard/shamar the way of the tree of life.


So after the flood, Ninrod & Co made a plan of rebellion to climb up to heaven -to "God's gate" "Bab-El", by building a tower 'whose top heaven" and enter Eden by another, man made, way.

They ticked God off pretty badly, and He came down with 70 of the angels who stood before Him and confounded the mother tongue into 70, so that they could not understand one another; and also, He sent an earthquake to destroy one third of the tower and a fire to destroy another third of the tower, and one third remained, after which Nimrod & Co ceased building the tower and the city.
Somewhere in the land of Shinar are ruins that testify to that event, but they are not in the city named Babylon, for that was built and named Babylon to commemorate the event, just as the other three cities Nimrod built after that were named other names to signify the happenings at the fall of the tower.
This information is in the Book of Jasher, which also notes that they were forty years in building the tower, and that in the end it took one year to get the building materials from the bottom to the top, and supplies were going up day by day -that was a pretty high tower!

Since then, God has hidden Eden from the sight of our race and we cannot find it for looking, but it remains and will be seen again when Jesus comes to reign over His kingdom and restores the pure mother tongue and "removes the vale cast over all nations".

It is vain to look for Eden, because it is in the heavens and the gate is barred and our eyes are blinded for the seeing of it as surely as the Sodomites were blinded to find Lot's house door, when they searched all night long for the entry to it, when the angels were inside it.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

And you left out the part where you called me an unbeliever for trodding on your precious pearls, .

Truthfully..

I don't have a problem entertaining differing trains of thought - to a point. But I do take serious issue when it gets to declaring people unbelievers simply for not agreeing with an interpretation...and as it is, it's against the rules of CF.

Thus, I'm just gonna ask one time that it either stops and all comments be taken out that are like that (as I don't want it on my thread) - or I'm just gonna start reporting every instance, be it what happens later or what has already been done without change.

 

[Carmella Prochaska]

The answer is obvious once we understand that the Bible describes a global cataclysm—Noah’s Flood—which destroyed the entire world, including the Garden of Eden. Everything that existed before the Flood was ‘deluged and destroyed’. The Flood waters covered the highest mountains of the day. We see the evidence of this cataclysm in the billions of fossils buried in sedimentary rock layers deposited from water all over the earth. This evidence is apparent in the rocks in Turkey and the Middle East where large areas of fossil-filled, sedimentary rock cover the land. Indeed, the pre-Flood vegetation buried deep underground in the Middle East now provides much of our global oil requirements. It is obvious that the present Tigris and Euphrates Rivers formed after the Flood, and on top of sediment laid down by the Flood. Thus, the Garden of Eden can't be located in the Middle East on top of rocks laid down by the Flood.

If we were to base our conclusions simply on geographical names, then we could hardly find a better match than the delightful, seaside town of Eden, 400 km south of Sydney in Australia. Yet, it is clear that this town cannot be the Biblical Garden of Eden. Obviously, the original settlers thought ‘Eden’ would be a nice name for their town. In the same way, the present Tigris and Euphrates Rivers have nothing to do with the rivers described in Genesis 2, except for their names.

It is perfectly understandable that some rivers in the post-Flood world, like the Tigris and Euphrates, were given the same names as rivers destroyed in the pre-Flood world.

Note also that the Bible speaks of one river breaking into four, only two of which are called the Tigris and Euphrates. This is not what is found in the Middle East today at either of the sites proposed.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Truthfully..

I don't have a problem entertaining differing trains of thought - to a point. But I do take serious issue when it gets to declaring people unbelievers simply for not agreeing with an interpretation...and as it is, it's against the rules of CF.

Thus, I'm just gonna ask one time that it either stops and all comments be taken out that are like that (as I don't want it on my thread) - or I'm just gonna start reporting every instance, be it what happens later or what has already been done without change.

I did not call your friend a non-Christian, but the remark in context was made about his statements of my Bible passages and the understanding of them which is not a "special revelation" as both you and he remarked, but opening of understanding that Paul prayed we all would have.
We are to study to show ourselves approved unto God, workmen that need not to be ashamed, and the study we were commended to do in that Scripture was of what was written in the prophets, the Law, and the writings. The New Testament was not yet written and put together as one book, and was not what Paul was telling Christians to study.

So, if you want to know if Eden was in Asia, you don't go against what the Writings, the Law and the prophets already written, but you study what was written and used by the early Church.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Note also that the Bible speaks of one river breaking into four, only two of which are called the Tigris and Euphrates. This is not what is found in the Middle East today at either of the sites proposed.

Actually, the rivers are there, still. The Indus River is the best candidate for the Pishon and it went around lots of Persia.
There is a city called Havilian, Pakistan, on the Indus River, which area was formerly India, and was once Persia.
When Moses wrote Genesis, the whole land was called Havilah.


And the river didn't break, which came out of Eden and watered God's Garden, but became "four heads".
Did you read the post linking to the atmospheric rivers that can carry more water than the Amazon? That only corroborates the Eden of heaven of Scriptures. Atmospheric rivers cover vast areas. We get the Pineapple express, from Hawaii, here on the west coast. It comes on us warming the air, and we get deluged.

Otherwise, the Nile is the best candidate for the Gihon, which once flooded before the flood of Noah and killed one third of earth's population, so the historical writing called the Book of Jasher records, in chapter 2:

Book of Jasher Referred to in Joshua and Second Samuel - Christian Classics Ethereal Library
2 And Seth lived one hundred and five years, and he begat a son; and Seth called the name of his son Enosh, saying, Because in that time the sons of men began to multiply, and to afflict their souls and hearts by transgressing and rebelling against God.

3 And it was in the days of Enosh that the sons of men continued to rebel and transgress against God, to increase the anger of the Lord against the sons of men.

4 And the sons of men went and they served other gods, and they forgot the Lord who had created them in the earth: and in those days the sons of men made images of brass and iron, wood and stone, and they bowed down and served them.

5 And every man made his god and they bowed down to them, and the sons of men forsook the Lord all the days of Enosh and his children; and the anger of the Lord was kindled on account of their works and abominations which they did in the earth.

6 And the Lord caused the waters of the river Gihon to overwhelm them, and he destroyed and consumed them, and he destroyed the third part of the earth, and notwithstanding this, the sons of men did not turn from their evil ways, and their hands were yet extended to do evil in the sight of the Lord.

7 And in those days there was neither sowing nor reaping in the earth; and there was no food for the sons of men and the famine was very great in those days.

8 And the seed which they sowed in those days in the ground became thorns, thistles and briers; for from the days of Adam was this declaration concerning the earth, of the curse of God, which he cursed the earth, on account of the sin which Adam sinned before the Lord.

The interesting fact of the River Gihon linked to the Nile is that The Great Pyramid was built before the flood of Noah, yet there were fossils in the sand used for cement and the rocks, in the building of it, which you can research online -look up Chris St James OOPART site, which is loaded with links of interest like that.

 

[Calminian]

Ii'll just sum, yeshuasavedme, as the discussion is getting less and less fruitful. I took the heavenly garden of Eden view seriously and looked at your case in depth. I listened to your arguments from the hebrew and which were easily dismantled, from the word laqach which simply means to take and apart from obvious context in and of itself never implies a rapture type event—the hebrew word for man, adam, also means man in most cases unless context is obvious, and even the words shamar and sakak which were conflated to mean the same thing. I did try to show you the true meaning of these words, but you never replied.

Now I realize you said God directly opened your mind to this interpretation, but scripture is clear Eden was on earth, along with the rivers that flowed from it and the lands that were adjacent to it.

Now I was accused of being unbelieving and trodding pearls, but I did no such thing. I listened and your revelation and found it to be lacking in any biblical substance. Yes it's a bizarre theory, but that's not really an issue for me. It actually contradicts scripture.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The Garden of Eden is called Paradise in Scripture, and also the Garden of Righteousness. Eden is called the "Holy Mount of God", and also, "Mount Zion -of the heavens.

[FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena]http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/septuagint/chapter.asp?book=48&page=28
[/FONT]
JEZEKIEL 28 [FONT=Palatino Linotype,Athena]Septuagint to English: 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation for the prince of Tyre, and say to him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou art a seal of resemblance, and crown of beauty. 13 Thou wast in the delight of the paradise of God; [/FONT]

Latin Vulgate to English:
28:13Thou wast in the pleasures of the paradise of God:
in deliciis paradisi Dei

So, Calminian, you are in error in your foolish claim that the Garden of God is not called Paradise in Scripture.
You are also in error to claim that Eden is not in heaven above, when the Scriptures, from the beginning and all throughout, show that it is in the stretched out expanse/firmament which God stretched out on day 2 of creation week, between the two/divided waters of creation, with half above the stretched out expanse/firmament and half below the stretched out firmament expanded firmament, which firmament, stretched out from earth, He named "sha-maym"/ in the Edenic/Hebrew mother tongue, which totally describes the heavens as that expanse between the two/divided waters/mayim.

Heaven is formed from the shin character which first was written showing the two front teeth, and as such, it was used to prefix the Hebrew word for "waters/mayim" and gives us the description of the "heavens" as that expanse between the two/divided/cut -if you will- waters"

From God's Garden of Righteousness, Adam was driven out and cast down by God, using His holy Cherubim who stand to guard the entry with two flaming swords.
Scripture -the Greek Septuagint and other translations and some honest English translations does say that God drove out and cast down to earth below, Adam, through His holy cherub -im [cherub is singular and adding the "m" makes it plural for the "angels" -actually "creatures" who are described with four faces; a lamb face [called a cherub face, in one passage]; Adam face; bull face; eagle face; and from reading Scriptures "beware the Eagles!" -but that's another subject.

When Adam was taken/laqach to the Garden of God-which was a rapture/harpazo to the holy mount of God, and a "marrying" in the same spiritual sense as that of Jesus marrying the raptured bride- his purpose for being made male and female was to bring forth holy sons of God-as Malachi 2:15 states.

When Adam disobeyed, he got grounded-cast to eretz, below. The word also uses the word, driven out, which in the Hebrew can also mean "divorced".
The story of redemption is God's plan for the redemption by the blood of the Kinsman/Redeemer and the restoration, by adoption and regeneration of the lost seed of Adam, and taking them away -to Eden above/rapturing them- and "marrying" them, as "one bride", and building up Zion above, which is personalized as the formerly widowed Woman whose first "ishyah", Adam, died and all the seed in his loins died in his death.

The New Man Creation "Ishyah" " builds up Zion above with holy sons of God of the human being kind, adopted from the lost Adam seed; and truly, the adopted sons become the holy "Ish" of the Firstborn Son of earth, who "builds up Zion above, for the Glory to indwell".

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The answer is obvious once we understand that the Bible describes a global cataclysm—Noah’s Flood—which destroyed the entire world, including the Garden of Eden. Everything that existed before the Flood was ‘deluged and destroyed’. The Flood waters covered the highest mountains of the day. We see the evidence of this cataclysm in the billions of fossils buried in sedimentary rock layers deposited from water all over the earth. This evidence is apparent in the rocks in Turkey and the Middle East where large areas of fossil-filled, sedimentary rock cover the land. Indeed, the pre-Flood vegetation buried deep underground in the Middle East now provides much of our global oil requirements. It is obvious that the present Tigris and Euphrates Rivers formed after the Flood, and on top of sediment laid down by the Flood. Thus, the Garden of Eden can't be located in the Middle East on top of rocks laid down by the Flood.

If we were to base our conclusions simply on geographical names, then we could hardly find a better match than the delightful, seaside town of Eden, 400 km south of Sydney in Australia. Yet, it is clear that this town cannot be the Biblical Garden of Eden. Obviously, the original settlers thought ‘Eden’ would be a nice name for their town. In the same way, the present Tigris and Euphrates Rivers have nothing to do with the rivers described in Genesis 2, except for their names.

It is perfectly understandable that some rivers in the post-Flood world, like the Tigris and Euphrates, were given the same names as rivers destroyed in the pre-Flood world.

Note also that the Bible speaks of one river breaking into four, only two of which are called the Tigris and Euphrates. This is not what is found in the Middle East today at either of the sites proposed.

'
It'd definately be something interesting to consider...