Moving the Garden East of Eden..Literally: Was Eden Originally in Asia?

[Gxg (G²)]

Ive not found anyone anywhere with this information. Im beginning to think that the world is not ready for the information. They prefer to stick with the idea that the tree of knowledge is an apple tree.

The bible is a record of the earth from start to finish. .

A lot of people stick with the idea, sadly, that the tree of knowledge was an apple tree...humorous as that is. And yes, I agree with you that scripture does a lot in showing the history of the world.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

From a scientific perspective, as it concerns how the planet shifts continents, what we think of with locations today may not have been what they used to be. As another noted, "The 'Lost Continent' is not so random as it appears: it seems to correspond roughly to Micronesia and Polynesia. Note also the smaller "lost continent" to the North, probably representing the Hawai'ian Islands"...

There was actually a book I came across that had similar information in it, entitled Paradise Lust: Searching for the Garden of Eden. It's interesting to see the history of what has occurred for Eden-Seekers, as they did a lot...and were just as obsessed with Noah as they were with Adam and Eve. For more maps, see: paradiselustbook.com/maps

For another good resource on the issue:

• The three possible locations for the garden of Eden
• Genesis International Research - The Garden of Eden

 

[ChetSinger]

I think that if Genesis 2 and onward are taken literally, Eden was once an actual physical place. But that place was covered in the Flood and buried under the earth.

So I see no gain in looking for Eden, because it's long buried and isn't coming back. Instead, God is making "all things new", including a new earth and a new Jerusalem for us to dwell in. And when I read the description of new Jerusalem it sounds even bigger and better than Eden ever was.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

One would wonder if the physical rivers of today once had a central point no longer in existence on the earth today--as it concerns the river that flowed through Eden to make the four others often try to connect.

The river that flowed out of Eden and became four heads is still there. Its a "river from above" that flows in the atmosphere. Modern science has only recently discovered it, but it's always been there.

http://www.nytimes.com/articles.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/keyword/equator
Rivers of Vapor Found in Atmosphere


Published: January 26, 1993







HUGE rivers of vapor, some carrying as much water as the Amazon, have been discovered in the lower atmosphere.
Dr. Reginald E. Newell of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said he was surprised to find the flows while analyzing satellite data. His findings are reported in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.
A half-dozen vapor rivers carry water from the Equator toward the poles in relatively narrow streams, Dr. Newell said in an interview. "I expected to see things following air masses, which usually have much larger horizontal widths," he said. "The fact that it's so concentrated was a surprise to us.
The general understanding of the atmosphere has been that warm moist air rises in the region of the equator and them moves toward the poles, usually curving somewhat because of the twist imparted by the earth's rotation.
The newly discovered rivers follow these principles, but move the moisture in narrow streams rather than having it spread out over a large air mass. The researchers calculated the length of some of these rivers of vapor at as much as 4,800 miles with a width of 420 to 480 miles.



One vapor river moves southeast from southern Brazil, staying to the east of the Andes and then curving out over the South Atlantic.
Dr. Newell and his associates are trying to figure out how the vapor rivers are related to weather patterns...Rivers of Vapor Found in Atmosphere - NYTimes.com

Quote myself on the other thread on Eden's location:

Eden is in the stretched out heavens which heavens were stretched out from earth on day 2 of creation week.

It is called "the breadth of the earth" which is not perceived by Job. It is the same bredth of the earth which the devil and his hordes ascend up to after the thousand year reign, to try to take over the City of God, there.

When Adam was created from the dust of the earth, he was "raptured/laqach" to Eden, and established in God's rest, there and placed there so as to reign over earth from there and have children and populate the earth. There would have been going up to Zion above and coming down if Adam had not fallen and got cast down to earth with no way back.
He ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil and became defiled and died in spirit as a son of God and was cast down to the earth from which he was made.

Eden was the place the tower of Bab-el =gate of God- was being built to try to ascend to, by another way than the Way God ordained from the beginning.
Since the Tower of Babel rebellion, Eden above is veiled from the eyes of mortal man, who cannot find it for looking; just like the Sodomites looked all night but could not find the door into Lot's house.

Paradise is a name for Garden, and the Garden is Eden is Paradise, in the third heaven. The tree of Life is in the midst of it. Adam was raptured to there and lost his place and it is now veiled to the eyes of mortals.

The river was there and is there still, which became four heads.

Something I read recently is that Rivers "flow" in the atmosphere today -interesting.

2 Cor 12:12 2 I know a person in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up/raptured to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows. 3 And I know that such a person—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows— 4was caught up/raptured into Paradise and heard things that are not to be told, that no mortal is permitted to repeat.

Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Gen 2:15
And the LORD God took/laqach/raptured the man/Adam, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress/to rest [in] it and to keep/to work/to serve [in] it.-expanded by me

Genesis 2:9
Out of the ground the LORD God made to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

2 Esdras 4:7
And he said to me, “If I had asked you, ‘How many dwellings are in the heart of the sea, or how many streams are at the source of the deep, or how many streams are above the firmament, or which are the exits of Hades, or which are the entrances of paradise?’

2 Esdras 6:2
and before the rumblings of thunder sounded, and before the flashes of lightning shone, and before the foundations of paradise were laid,

2 Esdras 8:52
because it is for you that paradise is opened, the tree of life is planted, the age to come is prepared, plenty is provided, a city is built, rest is appointed, goodness is established and wisdom perfected beforehand.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I think that if Genesis 2 and onward are taken literally, Eden was once an actual physical place. But that place was covered in the Flood and buried under the earth. So I see no gain in looking for Eden, because it's long buried and isn't coming back.

Curious as to why you'd say Eden was buried under the earth via the Flood.

Instead, God is making "all things new", including a new earth and a new Jerusalem for us to dwell in. And when I read the description of new Jerusalem it sounds even bigger and better than Eden ever was

That's true.

 

[ChetSinger]

Curious as to why you'd say Eden was buried under the earth via the Flood.

Even small floods reshape the earth under them. Just last year a small flood near my hometown, that lasted only a single day, reshaped the course of a stream near my home and buried some of the land under fresh sediment.

A flood that "prevailed over the earth for 150 days" and covered "even all the high mountains under the entire sky" would've moved vast quantities of sediment and reshaped the courses of rivers. I don't see how it couldn't have. So I can't imagine there would be anything recognizable left of Eden after being inundated. And I believe that if it's soil wasn't covered by fresh sediment, it was stripped and moved elsewhere.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Even small floods reshape the earth under them. Just last year a small flood near my hometown, that lasted only a single day, reshaped the course of a stream near my home and buried some of the land under fresh sediment.

A flood that "prevailed over the earth for 150 days" and covered "even all the high mountains under the entire sky" would've moved vast quantities of sediment and reshaped the courses of rivers. I don't see how it couldn't have. So I can't imagine there would be anything recognizable left of Eden after being inundated. And I believe that if it's soil wasn't covered by fresh sediment, it was stripped and moved elsewhere.

Eden was never on the earth below, but was and is always in the third heaven.
Adam was raptured/laqach/removed/taken away from the earth below and put in the Garden of Eden to dress and keep it.

The Tree of Life is in the midst of the Paradise/Garden of God and that is in the third heaven. Adam was literally "raptured/ taken away from earth below to be set in Paradise above.
That is where Adam, the "echad sar/one prince" of Psalm 82 was, when he died in spirit and was cast down to earth below, and the gate was guarded by flaming swords to keep Adam or his seed from ever going back in his fallen defiled state of being -and that's where Nimrod's rebellion was planning to get back up to, by climbing up "another way".


Psalm 82:6,7, in the Hebrew, has a message for the elohym/sons of God who are watchers and judges set over earth and they are warned that they are in danger of dying and being cast down
like Adam, the one prince -check the Hebrew of that passage.

Gen 2:8
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden/Paradise, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Gen 2:15
And the LORD God took/laqach[raptured] the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise/Garden of God.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up/raptured to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4 How that he was caught up/raptured into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.


Enoch visited Eden, and was granted to go live there with the Watcher angels who intercede for the sons of man and are their "judges" over earth.
To get us back to Eden and "build up Zion" above with human being sons of God in the New Man name, "for the Glory" in the name of the New Man/Christ come in flesh named Israel Isaiah 49- by adoption as His sons, made possible by the Blood of Atonement is the plan God made before He even created us, because He knew we would die, in Adam.

 

[ChetSinger]

Eden was never on the earth below, but was and is always in the third heaven.
Adam was raptured/laqach/removed/taken away from the earth below and put in the Garden of Eden to dress and keep it.

Hello. I think you may be reading more into "raptured/laqach/removed/taken" than is warranted. The word is used hundreds of times in the scriptures without heavenly "rapturing" intended.

When I read Genesis 2 I don't get any sense that Eden is anywhere but on the earth. Our new home will be on the new earth, not in heaven. So it seems to make sense to me that our original home was on the original earth, not in heaven.

So I remain unconvinced that Eden was anywhere but on the earth. Partly, I suppose, because I tend to treat the scriptures literally unless I find a compelling reason to treat them otherwise.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hello. I think you may be reading more into "raptured/laqach/removed/taken" than is warranted. The word is used hundreds of times in the scriptures without heavenly "rapturing" intended.

When I read Genesis 2 I don't get any sense that Eden is anywhere but on the earth. Our new home will be on the new earth, not in heaven. So it seems to make sense to me that our original home was on the original earth, not in heaven.

So I remain unconvinced that Eden was anywhere but on the earth. Partly, I suppose, because I tend to treat the scriptures literally unless I find a compelling reason to treat them otherwise.

The word laqach means: 1) to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away.


The Creator "laqach" a rib from/out of Adam and built a female Adam person.
Enoch was "laqach" out of the midst of the earth and taken to Eden, in the heavens of earth.

Elijah was "laqach to heaven in his own untranslated body and is returning in the same.


David knew that YHWH would "laqach" his body out of the grave.

And there are many more.

So when the Creator "laqach" Adam, he took him away to the heavenly realm of earth's stretched out firmament and put him in the Garden/Paradise, to dress and keep it.

When Adam ate the fruit that defiled his being, he died as a son of God and was cast down and out of Paradise, in the third heavens, where the Tree of
Life is in the midst of.

2 Cor 12:
12 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up/raptured to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4was caught up/raptured to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.

God made the Adam creation to "plant the heavens". That will be done, but not in the Adam name, but in the name of the New Man creation, and Christ come in flesh as Redeemer/Kinsman is the Firstborn of that New Man name. His adopted sons will be given the fruit of the Tree of Life in the midst of Paradise/Garden of God, in the third heavens

Revelation 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’

Isaiah 51:16
And I have put My words in your mouth; I have covered you with the shadow of My hand, That I may plant the heavens, Lay the foundations of the earth, And say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’”

Genesis 2:15
Then the LORD God laqach Adam and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it.

 

[ChetSinger]

The word laqach means: 1) to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away.

The Creator "laqach" a rib from/out of Adam and built a female Adam person.
Enoch was "laqach" out of the midst of the earth and taken to Eden, in the heavens of earth.

Elijah was "laqach to heaven in his own untranslated body and is returning in the same.

David knew that YHWH would "laqach" his body out of the grave.

And there are many more.

So when the Creator "laqach" Adam, he took him away to the heavenly realm of earth's stretched out firmament and put him in the Garden/Paradise, to dress and keep it.

OK, but "laqach" is used hundreds of times in the OT, and usually in a mundane way. So I don't think the use of that word regarding Adam's transportation necessarily implies a removal-from-the-earth kind of rapturing. Maybe, but not necessarily.

So I remain unconvinced. I'll agree to disagree on this.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

OK, but "laqach" is used hundreds of times in the OT, and usually in a mundane way. So I don't think the use of that word regarding Adam's transportation necessarily implies a removal-from-the-earth kind of rapturing. Maybe, but not necessarily.

So I remain unconvinced. I'll agree to disagree on this.

Okay, but notice the word's meaning cannot change:
The word laqach means: 1) to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away.

And the removal of something from one place to another is what happened to Adam in Genesis 2, so where he was removed to?

To Eden's Garden/Paradise, is the answer in the Word.

Where is Paradise in the Word?
In the third heaven, is the answer in the Word.

Revelation 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’
​

2 Cor 12:
12 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up/raptured to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4was caught up/raptured to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.

 

[ChetSinger]

Okay, but notice the word's meaning cannot change:
The word laqach means: 1) to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away.

And the removal of something from one place to another is what happened to Adam in Genesis 2, so where he was removed to?

To Eden's Garden/Paradise, is the answer in the Word.

Where is Paradise in the Word?
In the third heaven, is the answer in the Word.

Revelation 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’
​

2 Cor 12:
12 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up/raptured to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4was caught up/raptured to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.

OK, I've put more thought into what you've been saying and I think I follow your reasoning. But I don't think your conclusion that Eden was off-world necessary follows. I want to emphasize that I'm not claiming you're wrong, not at all, just that I think there are additional possibilities.

Please bear with me.

In the Revelation God seems to move the tree of life from a heavenly place to an earthly place. In chapter 2, in the time of John's writing, it's in the "paradise of God". But in chapter 22 it's in "new Jerusalem", which descends from heaven to the new earth.

So in the future God will move the tree from heaven to the new earth.

Now, I'm no theologian, but I've been taught that the original Eden was on the original earth. So can I square that with what Revelation says about the tree? I think so. Perhaps God moved the tree to heaven for safekeeping after the earth was corrupted (we know He's willing to move it). Or, perhaps the tree even perished in the Flood, and God has since prepared a new tree for installation in new Jerusalem.

I think either of those possibilities are compatible with the text. So for now, I'll stick with what I've been taught.

And another thought came to me: if Eden wasn't on the earth, why the need of the cherubim on the eastern side of the garden to keep Adam from reaching the tree? Doesn't that passage sound like Adam remained within physical proximity of Eden? It sounds that way to me. What do you think?

 

[yeshuasavedme]

OK, I've put more thought into what you've been saying and I think I follow your reasoning. But I don't think your conclusion that Eden was off-world necessary follows. I want to emphasize that I'm not claiming you're wrong, not at all, just that I think there are additional possibilities.

Please bear with me.

In the Revelation God seems to move the tree of life from a heavenly place to an earthly place. In chapter 2, in the time of John's writing, it's in the "paradise of God". But in chapter 22 it's in "new Jerusalem", which descends from heaven to the new earth.

So in the future God will move the tree from heaven to the new earth.

Now, I'm no theologian, but I've been taught that the original Eden was on the original earth. So can I square that with what Revelation says about the tree? I think so. Perhaps God moved the tree to heaven for safekeeping after the earth was corrupted (we know He's willing to move it). Or, perhaps the tree even perished in the Flood, and God has since prepared a new tree for installation in new Jerusalem.

I think either of those possibilities are compatible with the text. So for now, I'll stick with what I've been taught.

And another thought came to me: if Eden wasn't on the earth, why the need of the cherubim on the eastern side of the garden to keep Adam from reaching the tree? Doesn't that passage sound like Adam remained within physical proximity of Eden? It sounds that way to me. What do you think?

Going backwards:
Yes, Adam was able to go to the gate of Paradise, but he could not enter in because the Cherubim with flaming swords guarded the gate/door.
Adam was in Eden with the Cherubim and certainly knew who and what they were.

If you read Ezekiel 28 in Hebrew [use a concordance] and in context to other passages where God has a controversy to settle with particular Adam souls who are a remnant of the one Adam spirit -which spirit is in rebellion to Him from the time our first father ate the fruit and got cast down and out of Eden- then you will see Adam was in the holy Mount Eden above and was driven out by the Cherubim. Most translations of that passage are faulty because the translators did not understand context, and consequently, a fable/myth arose that Ezekiel 28 is speaking about a fallen holy angel, and they try to make Satan a fallen angel by that; but the Hebrew is speaking to the king of Tyre as a particular Adam person -and it says so in Hebrew- and God's controversy goes right back to the rebellion of the first Adam [the beginning of the Adam spirit: Malachi 2:15], who was the "king".

The king of the earth, the first father in Adam, was set in Eden above, in the Holy Mount, and he did get cast down and out of Eden above to earth beneath -and he was "driven out by the Cherubim". -check out a couple of translations on that, for that is what it says.

 

[Calminian]

Okay, but notice the word's meaning cannot change:
The word laqach means: 1) to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, take away.....

Actually, Chet is right about the use of the hebrew word, laqach. It has a very wide broad range of usage. Eve took (laqach) of the fruit of the tree. Are we to assume she rapture the fruit into her hand? I mean were talking about over 900 occurrences in the O.T. All mean the same basic thing, to take.

You seem to be saying that since God took Enoch, therefore any other use of the word "took" has some rapturous meaning. It's simply not the case with this hebrew word.

Also, Eden most certainly was on earth. When god first planted the Garden the location of Eden is described as eastward, from where Adam was created out of the dust. There is nothing said about a garden created above the earth. In fact the beginning of the account in chapter two says that no cultivated plants were yet growing on earth (eretz) because there was yet no man to till the garden ground. Then God made Adam. Then he plated the garden eastward (not upward). Then he put Adam there.

In the creation account when Adam was created, he was given food that was on the earth (eretz). He was commanded to multiply on the earth (eretz). Now this was in the beginning before the Fall when God called everything He had made, "very good."

Now when Adam and Eve were banished, it is said angels guarded the east entrance, which would make no sense if this were something in the sky.

Furthermore, when Cain was cursed, it is said that moved to the land of Nod that was east of Eden.

Gen. 4:16 Then Cain went out from the presence of the LORD and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden.​

So even after the Fall, Eden was still on the earth.

The idea of Eden in the sky isn't just absent from scripture, it contradicts scripture.

And by the way, here is the Ezekiel passage you were quoting.

“Thus says the Lord GOD:
‘You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.
18 “You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.”[bless and do not curse]’[bless and do not curse]”

Now you say this is describing Adam, but the term cherub is used to describe this individual, and Adam was not a cherub. Also, the wickedness and violence that characterized this individual described doesn't not resemble what we know about Adam, who was ashamed when he sinned, who covered himself, and accepted God's coverings. Adam never was haughty to God as were Cain and Lemech. Even after banishment, he obeyed God and become fruitful with Eve and multiplied. Everything we know about Adam points to him being redeemed. That is not the case with the individual above. This is a Cherub, just as the text says, who was wicked and will endure God's wrath.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

East meant first, BTW: and God's holy Mount is "eastward". -Jesus will come from the "East" when He comes. His star was seen in the "East" when He came.

Furthermore, when Cain was cursed, it is said that moved to the land of Nod that was east of Eden

Nod means "to wander". Cain "wandered". from the face of
Eden in the east.

Now you say this is describing Adam, but the term cherub is used to describe this individual, and Adam was not a cherub.

No, the Hebrew does not call Adam a Cherub -nor does it call Satan a Cherub. The Hebrew does say the king of tyre is an Adam, and Cherubim have one Adam face -and three other faces- but Adam is not a Cherub.
The Hebrew says the Cherub was set over him and the Cherubim drove Him out of the Garden. read the Hebrew and the septuagint to English and the RSV.

Also, the wickedness and violence that characterized this individual described doesn't not resemble what we know about Adam...

Not the first Adam, but Nimrod, in particular, who was the ancestor of the prince of Tyre and who attempted to build a tower up to heaven so as to sit as God on the throne of God there, reserved for the Son of Man, and be a forever living human being "god" .

-and God holds His controversies generation to generation, beginning with the first father's sin. We must all settle them at the cross, and repent of our ancestors sins, like God taught in Deut and like Daniel did, for his ancestors in his prayer. of rep[entance -though Daniel needed no personal repentance like that. He was obeying God's command to repent of your ancestors sins when you remember God and the curses you are under for your fathers sins.


To give you an example, I call your attention to Ezekiel 29, where God has a controversy with the Pharoah of Egypt of Ezekiel's day and says -against him: Eze 29:3 Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river [is] mine own, and I have made [it] for myself....

Eze 29:9 And the land of Egypt shall be desolate and waste; and they shall know that I [am] the LORD: because he hath said, The river [is] mine, and I have made [it].
That particular Pharaoh of Ezekiel's day did not say "My river is my own, and I have made it for myself", in defiance of YHWH; but the Pharaoh of Moses' day did say that.

God has a lot of controversies unsettled with the sons of Adam -and He holds them against the descendants in curses until they are settled. He also blesses generations for the righteousness of the fathers of them.

Generational curses began upon the human/Adam race in Genesis 3, when Satan got the dominion to curse every living thing on earth, and to "eat their dust -in corruption/death- until they "go to the belly" of earth -the grave, and Sheol below [it is not Satan who is cursed in Genesis 3, in the Hebrew original, but the entire creation of the dominion of Adam, of whom we come from the loins of, as his seed, and who sold us into the hands of Satan to be cursed, by his disobedience.

I also call your attention to David's song in Psalm 18, where he writes prophetically about his own ancestors in the first person, from the flood of Noah to the sons of Jacob and on down to the descendants of himself and finally, to Jesus Christ, Himself.

 

[Calminian]

East meant first, BTW: and God's holy Mount is "eastward". -Jesus will come from the "East" when He comes. His star was seen in the "East" when He came.

Even mountains are of the earth. Yes, there are mountains to the east. And yes, Jesus' star could be said to have risen in the east. It's more likely that the magi originally saw his star appear in the east where they lived. They were telling Herod about this after traveling west.

But when the garden is described as being in the east, it is done so with the land as a point of reference. Cain didn't fly upward away form God, he traveled east of eden. If Eden was in the sky, and invisible this would have made no sense.

Nod means "to wander". Cain "wandered". from the face of
Eden in the east.

Yes all hebrew names have meanings. But Cain was said to settle east of Eden. If Eden was gone as you say this would make no sense.

No, the Hebrew does not call Adam a Cherub -nor does it call Satan a Cherub. The Hebrew does say the king of tyre is an Adam, and Cherubim have one Adam face -and three other faces- but Adam is not a Cherub.
The Hebrew says the Cherub was set over him and the Cherubim drove Him out of the Garden. read the Hebrew and the septuagint to English and the RSV.

Yes, and the hebrew calls everyone an adam. You are an adam (the female version) and I am an adam. Even Christ was an adam. But in the text you cite, a cherub is getting the curse from God. That is not referring to Adam or the King of Tyre.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

...

But when the garden is described as being in the east, it is done so with the land as a point of reference.

The Word says:
1. The Garden was planted in Eden.
Garden means Paradise, they are one and the same word.

2. Paradise is in the third heaven.
Paul wrote it in 2 Cor.
The third heaven is where Paradise is.

3 The Tree of Life is in the midst of Paradise/God's Garden
3 The Tree of Life is in Paradise.
3 The Tree of Life is in the third heaven.

Adam was cast down/driven out/ to the earth below, which he was formed of the dust of.
and the gate to Eden's Mount was guarded by Cherubim with flaming swords to keep Adam out.

Adam gave his offerings at the gate to Eden.
Abel and Cain offered their offerings at the gate.
Cain could never go to the gate again, but was sent wandering away from it.

The ancient Chinese Oracle Bone writing -invented as soon after Babel as all writings were- tells the story in the characters the language is written in which completely agrees with the Genesis record. The Garden is depicted as a mountain, with a gate where the sacrifice was offered once, yearly.

Since Bab-el's rebellion, no man can find the gate, no king of earth can go there to make the offering of Atonement which God instituted as soon as Adam fell, as a temporary rehearsal for the Atonement to come.
Romans 1 says all nations and peoples knew who God was, and corrupted His image....

Yes, and the hebrew calls everyone an adam. You are an adam (the female version) and I am an adam. Even Christ was an adam. But in the text you cite, a cherub is getting the curse from God. That is not referring to Adam or the King of Tyre.

The Cherub is not getting a curse. I once thought that maybe that was so, because it was "tradition and a Christian myth/fable" but the wording of the text in Hebrew shows that the Adam is cursed, not a Cherub. A Cherub was never an Adam. The text says Adam. Also, you need to go to other versions which are at least honest in that respect -and just start with the Hebrew itself, helps.

As to Jesus being the "last Adam" the context of all Scripture is that Christ come in flesh is the "last human being" in that flesh of second creation, but His name, in all Scripture, as the last human being and the Firstborn of earth, is "Israel", not "Adam"; and His new creation human being flesh is the brother to Adam, the first creation human being, and so He is the Kinsman/Redeemer of Adam, come as next of Kin so as to redeem His brother. and the kingdom His brother lost to sin, death, and corruption.
Adam is the name of "first human being", "Israel" is the name of the "Last human being"
Genesis 5:2
Isaiah 49.

 

[ChetSinger]

Going backwards:
Yes, Adam was able to go to the gate of Paradise, but he could not enter in because the Cherubim with flaming swords guarded the gate/door.
Adam was in Eden with the Cherubim and certainly knew who and what they were.

If you read Ezekiel 28 in Hebrew [use a concordance] and in context to other passages where God has a controversy to settle with particular Adam souls who are a remnant of the one Adam spirit -which spirit is in rebellion to Him from the time our first father ate the fruit and got cast down and out of Eden- then you will see Adam was in the holy Mount Eden above and was driven out by the Cherubim. Most translations of that passage are faulty because the translators did not understand context, and consequently, a fable/myth arose that Ezekiel 28 is speaking about a fallen holy angel, and they try to make Satan a fallen angel by that; but the Hebrew is speaking to the king of Tyre as a particular Adam person -and it says so in Hebrew- and God's controversy goes right back to the rebellion of the first Adam [the beginning of the Adam spirit: Malachi 2:15], who was the "king".

The king of the earth, the first father in Adam, was set in Eden above, in the Holy Mount, and he did get cast down and out of Eden above to earth beneath -and he was "driven out by the Cherubim". -check out a couple of translations on that, for that is what it says.

I continue to disagree. But I suppose the physical location of Eden isn't essential doctrine, so I'm not going to pursue this. Peace.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I continue to disagree. But I suppose the physical location of Eden isn't essential doctrine, so I'm not going to pursue this. Peace.

And Peace to you.

Why does the location of Eden matter?
1 It is Paradise, and it is what we lost forever, irretrievably, in the fall of our first father.
2 We were made to "plant the heavens" as sons of God of the human being kind and to be a temple made without hands for the Glory to indwell, and we lost that purpose of being and reason for being, in the fall, and in the Atonement and adoption, we gain it back, in the New Man Name.
3 It is our destiny in Christ to fulfill what Adam lost, and Paradise is our destination, to get back, and to be, what Adam was created to be and to rule what Adam was created to rule.

Paradise has never been defiled nor has it ever been moved nor would it have been destroyed in the flood, because it is in the third heaven, and the third heaven was not flooded in the flood of Noah.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Interesting..