Moving Beyond Christianity 101

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Hebrews 6:1 (Amp): "Therefore let us go on and get past the elementary stage in the teachings and doctrine of Christ (the Messiah), advancing steadily toward the completeness and perfection that belong to spiritual maturity. Let us not again be laying the foundation of repentance and abandonment of dead works (dead formalism) and of the faith [by which you turned] to God."

This is an interesting verse because it brings out some issues that we might not have considered in depth. Some have interpreted this as leaving behind the basics and entering into some type of deeper Christian life. They say to themselves, "Well, I'm saved, filled with the Spirit, and now I don't have to think about those things any longer and so I am going to move into the deeper life with God." But somehow they never get there, because doing it this way is like searching for the Holy Grail. They will search and search and search, but never find it. Maybe after becoming quite frustrated they might abandon the Christian life completely through frustration and disillusionment.

My view of this is that we don't skip over the basics in order to access any "deeper life". Actually looking for a "deeper" spiritual experience is more New Age than any progression toward Christian maturity.
We work through the basics and successfully pass each stage, fully understanding the doctrinal and practical issues around it before progressing to the next stage of our experience of God. If we don't successfully master a stage, we keep going back through it until we do. This is the same as any formal academic course. We have to master the stage 1 level before we can advance to stage 2 and 3 and post-graduate stages.

We find that the majority of believers have never advanced beyond the basic stage, and even if they have been in the church for 40 years, it is merely one year of experience and advancement multiplied by 40. Maturity involves years of cumulative experience and growth, not attempting, failing, and repeating the tests at the basic grade for that number of years.

So Hebrews mentions the foundation stage of repentance. Before we can advance beyond that stage, we have to understand what repentance actually is. We learn that it is a completely new way of thinking about God, Christ and ourselves. This thinking then causes a progressive change in our conduct so that we develop into Christlike patterns of thinking and behaviour. If a person is still in bondage to sinful habits and has to repeatedly confess, repent, confess, repent, then he has not passed the basic repentance test. To pass the test, he has to accept that repentance is a one-time event which we grow from. Repeated repentance is like going around and around in orbit but never breaking away to journey further toward the moon or the other planets.

The next basic stage to be successfully mastered is to progress beyond dead forms like liturgies and religious observances, and move toward a spontaneous type of personal and corporate worship which the person fellowships freely with God as a son and heir with Christ. Jesus said that true believers will worship Him in Spirit and in truth. Many Christians cannot worship God unless they are part of a very structured system, and while they are that way, they have not mastered this stage and will be stuck in the rut of formalism until they do.

The third thing mentioned that Christians have to master is a full understanding of the faith that brought them to Christ and the standing they have with God in Christ that they have through faith. Through the basic level of faith, a new Christian learns where they stand with Christ, that they are clothed with the righteousness of Christ and that they can stand before God without any guilt, shame or sin-consciousness. Unless they have that basic level of faith, they can never progress to the levels of faith where they can use the more powerful tools of the Spirit that are effective in the hands of mature Christians.

So this is why the majority of Christians are stuck in these three basic areas. This is why their religion is based on pious words, but have no power to back them up. They remain spiritual children even if they have elder and pastoral responsibilities in their churches. They can only teach what they have mastered in themselves, and so they never get beyond teaching the basics, and so the people they teach never progress beyond the basics.

That's why many churches are full of spiritual children, unable to progress in their experience of God. All they can do is to wistfully look at what the Early Church apostles and believers could accomplish in Christ but not have the ability to do those things themselves.

 

[FireHeart]

It's always good to see you oscarr And as always you posted a very wise insightful and in depth post you do a very good job on here. I recall teachings about milk then moving on to the meat, even when I moved on to the meat I always keep the milk I learned in my heart and even then I am not fully into the meat lol. If you were to tell me a year ago that the level of love and faith I would have with God that I do now I was going to have I would have not believed you for a second, I cannot say that I am the best Christian nor am I the strongest or the wisest but as I have said before love is a spiritual steroid in the believers faith, I jumped from say a level 2 out of ten of love and faith to at least a 5 which is actually quite a lot and of course I cannot take credit because in all honesty as much as I wish I was strong I had to and still have to rely on God 100%

I have encountered many who are so focused on everything in faith except God, many have attacked and condemned other believers simply because they disagree with them and many lack love and the heart of God many have forgotten what it means to be a Christian and so i believe God chose to use babes like me to remind them. I'm sorry if what I am saying has nothing to do with your thread I kind of have a habit of speaking my heart which isn't always a good thing

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

No probs. I enjoyed your post. Here is what I learned about milk and meat. Milk is what we learn from God's Word. Meat is when we "do" the Word. We can learn all about the gifts of the Spirit and that is good milk. But when we use the gifts then that is meat. That's how you know the difference between milk and meat Christians.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Philippians Chapter 3 talks about being Mature and the kind of view one should take, also before that verse (15) the race is illustrated, forgetting what is behind and straining towards what is ahead. So in moving beyond Christianity 101, some things will be left behind, this is also illustrated in 1st Corinthians 13, when I was a child, I spoke as a child and acted as a child but when I grew up I put those childish things away. The illustration of letting go of previous notions and taking hold of what God is teaching you now through your maturity seems to have a basis in the new testament teachings, insomuch even Peter in one of his letters addressed those who were established in the "present truth."

Philippians Chapter 3

Further, my brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. 2 Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh. 3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— 4 though I myself have reasons for such confidence.

If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.

7 But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. 10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

15 (^^^^^^)All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.

So I understand a mature view of things is not taking confidence in meeting performance goals of religious organizations or any organization, instead seeking to attain real things from God, I also glean from this to persecute others because they think differently than you is also immature, and instead this form of religion is to be regarded as "garbage" and what is let go of so we can take hold of what Jesus called us for. No more of this earthly religion, just worshipping God spiritually and genuinely.

 

[rdclmn72]

A child is born.
It can barely feed itself.
Soon enough it can.
Later it eventually gets to share and finally it can see others that need to be fed.

Growth takes place with time and one never stops learning.
Fruit of the Spirit is over time, its multifaceted and it also places one in one's proper place within the body.

 

[Alithis]

advancing steadily toward the completeness and perfection that belong to spiritual maturity.

.. is funny (kiwi funny strange i mean) but when i began to read your post ..this line jumped at me and i saw that the key word is spiritual maturity. not intellectual ,not something "done " by us .. but a moving past it all into the will of God and the forsaking of our own life ..
-and then i went on the read the post and found its in line ..
we cant walk in the spiritual power while we still live as though this world and this life is "all " important .. we remains stuck in the basics .

sure it's probably not what your meaning but hey lol..its what i suddenly saw

 

[Alithis]

A child is born.
It can barely feed itself.
Soon enough it can.
Later it eventually gets to share and finally it can see others that need to be fed.

Growth takes place with time and one never stops learning.
Fruit of the Spirit is over time, its multifaceted and it also places one in one's proper place within the body.

iv heard this often ..even said it myself .. and then there's a but .. BUT ... the apostles had 3.5 years training , still didn't get it ..then got filled with the Holy Ghost and brought forth swift fruit with abundance ...

in contrast we have believers in churches for 20 years who haven't fruited much beyond giving some one a timid invite to hear the wonderful guest speaker church has visiting this sunday ... how long is this fruiting process meant to take ???

 

[FireHeart]

one thing I have noticed is that each believer seems to grow in faith at different rates, I know Christians who have been saved for 10+ years but are very immature as believers maybe they once were mature in faith and they somehow lost their way idk and it's not my place to place judgement either. Some I have seen are still very young in faith and yet show more fruit in the spirit and love than other veteran Christians. I have been saved almost three years and while I grew very fast in love and faith it was mainly because I had an advantage many do not, the way my life was I was stuck in my house 24/7 I could not go anywhere except on short walks and i didn't have to pay rent or for food or anything so I had all the free time in the world and I spent it all with God getting to know him just being with him learning and growing.

True I was in a prison type situation because my mom sort of held me captive but it was still a blessing in disguise. The fact is because of how my life has been and the damage it has done to me my mind and my body I am not cut out to make it in this world on my own, I am not able to do many things others can and so I have to have help with many many things. If anyone read my testimony then they could probably see what I mean. But I have always said that for everything I was made weak in this world he made me strong in his, I honestly don't know where this came from or if it's actually true or not but when I spend lots of time with God things are placed in my heart and I speak things my lips have never known like what I said above.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Hebrews 6:1 (Amp): "Therefore let us go on and get past the elementary stage in the teachings and doctrine of Christ (the Messiah), advancing steadily toward the completeness and perfection that belong to spiritual maturity. Let us not again be laying the foundation of repentance and abandonment of dead works (dead formalism) and of the faith [by which you turned] to God."

This is an interesting verse because it brings out some issues that we might not have considered in depth. Some have interpreted this as leaving behind the basics and entering into some type of deeper Christian life. They say to themselves, "Well, I'm saved, filled with the Spirit, and now I don't have to think about those things any longer and so I am going to move into the deeper life with God." But somehow they never get there, because doing it this way is like searching for the Holy Grail. They will search and search and search, but never find it. Maybe after becoming quite frustrated they might abandon the Christian life completely through frustration and disillusionment.

My view of this is that we don't skip over the basics in order to access any "deeper life". Actually looking for a "deeper" spiritual experience is more New Age than any progression toward Christian maturity.

I think that it is talking about 'spiritual' things which is our relationship with Jesus, through prayer, worship and turning to Him in situations and trusting through faith.

Since the verse is from Hebrews, they knew better than most the Law of Moses, however a transition now to the New Covenant was God with us. The Holy Spirit inside of us. The redemption of sin through faith. I think that this verse is talking about that change in thinking. The verse even mentions 'works' specifically.

 

[ToBeLoved]

my pastor just spent 10 sermons in Genesis on the life of Joseph, son of Jacob.

To look at all that he went through being hated by his brothers, sold into slavery, being a servant in Egypt and then being jailed on false accusations, Joseph always kept his faith and was so forgiving. It is a testament to God's love.

I think some don't value the spiritual and that's one of the greatest things about the New Covenant.

Having lived many years now, the love of God and understanding just who He is changes lives.

It took me a while to see that truth.

 

[Svt4Him]

A very long way of saying you don't sin.

A very wrong way as well. And you wonder why some never mature.

Repentance is to also change one's behaviour, not how they view God or themselves. You confess your sins He is faithful and just. I admit, I still have some behaviour I need to repent of.

But let me assume that you are right in the OP. So we don't need to worry about repentance, it's a one-time thing. In your Christianity 101, I'd also assume you don't need to worry about faith, it's also a one-time thing. Hmmm...seems to me Jesus will be looking for faith, and it's the one thing needed to please God.

Yup, I can see how some are stuck in the basics.

To me the basics are if you do wrong, repent, God is faithful, make decisions that make you holy. OR be lawless, mask it as grace and love.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

.. is funny (kiwi funny strange i mean) but when i began to read your post ..this line jumped at me and i saw that the key word is spiritual maturity. not intellectual ,not something "done " by us .. but a moving past it all into the will of God and the forsaking of our own life ..
-and then i went on the read the post and found its in line ..
we cant walk in the spiritual power while we still live as though this world and this life is "all " important .. we remains stuck in the basics .

sure it's probably not what your meaning but hey lol..its what i suddenly saw

It is what I am trying to get at. I equate spiritual maturity to living according to our new nature. When the New Testament refers to spiritual it means "of The Holy Spirit" not a personal spirituality, which is tending toward New Age and the Occult. The New Testament though recognises that we have a spirit which is that facility that fellowships with God, who is also a Spirit. The Holy Spirit lives in us and is merged with our spirit. Our spirit is dead before conversion, but is made alive when we receive Christ. So we don't have a personal spirituality because our spirit is the portal through which we fellowship with God and is in combination with The Holy Spirit to develop our sanctification.

You will find that New Agers are the ones who speak about their spirituality and their spiritual development. The New Testament doesn't define it that way. We don't have a personal spirituality, and the New Ager's personal spirituality is not something that is compatible with The Holy Spirit. It is more that it is a demon masquerading as The Holy Spirit, which is what it is well capable of doing.

I've probably started a whole new area of debate by saying this!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

A very long way of saying you don't sin.

A very wrong way as well. And you wonder why some never mature.

Repentance is to also change one's behaviour, not how they view God or themselves. You confess your sins He is faithful and just. I admit, I still have some behaviour I need to repent of.

But let me assume that you are right in the OP. So we don't need to worry about repentance, it's a one-time thing. In your Christianity 101, I'd also assume you don't need to worry about faith, it's also a one-time thing. Hmmm...seems to me Jesus will be looking for faith, and it's the one thing needed to please God.

Yup, I can see how some are stuck in the basics.

To me the basics are if you do wrong, repent, God is faithful, make decisions that make you holy. OR be lawless, mask it as grace and love.

The verse in Hebrews does not say that we should ignore these things at all. We are to master them and then move on to maturity. I really do maintain that repentance is a one-time event because it is totally linked to conversion. If you are genuinely converted to Christ you have totally repented. If you think you still have to repent, then you might take a closer look through Scripture about what Christian conversion means to a believer, and that what is meant by us being new creatures in Christ.

We don't move on to maturity if we have not mastered faith in God. If we are still worrying and fretting and having difficulty believing God's Word, then you haven't mastered the principles of faith. And if you haven't mastered faith, God cannot do much with you. He has to keep working on you to make up that lack in your experience of Him.

Once we have fully mastered the principles of repentance and faith, then we can move on to maturity, but not before,

 

[Gregory Thompson]

You will find that New Agers are the ones who speak about their spirituality and their spiritual development. The New Testament doesn't define it that way. We don't have a personal spirituality, and the New Ager's personal spirituality is not something that is compatible with The Holy Spirit. It is more that it is a demon masquerading as The Holy Spirit, which is what it is well capable of doing.

I've probably started a whole new area of debate by saying this!

Probably not thinking along the same parallel so here are my thoughts:

In my surface definition, there is a level of personalization, in that we don't receive the same gifts or mission from the holy spirit, in that no eye has seen and no eye has heard what God has waiting for those who love him, so each person has something that all christians before have not seen or heard of .. just waiting. There is personalization, though I recall discussing salvation with someone who emphasized a "personal relationship" as a means of salvation and it seemed to make it a personally acquired salvation instead of one given by the Holy Spirit. So it is possible you meant it via one of the angles I also disagree with for scriptural or application reasons.

The new age type of spiritual growth is different than the Holy Spirit maturing in us after we are "born again" and as we live the "new life" . but compared to the way a lot of christians mature and rationalize the teachings, it is difficult to see the difference because the distinctives of the christian faith are not being used .. and rapture has replaced resurrection in their theology, and the new age teaching of ascension isn't all that different from the idea of the rapture. Quite often when christian ministries attempt to be "spiritual" they use the old testament as their template which uses a form of "do a miracle to qualify the teaching" which makes it easy to be deceived.

that was my thought process, but I was curious what you were thinking when you said there is no personalization.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It is what I am trying to get at. I equate spiritual maturity to living according to our new nature. When the New Testament refers to spiritual it means "of The Holy Spirit" not a personal spirituality, which is tending toward New Age and the Occult. The New Testament though recognises that we have a spirit which is that facility that fellowships with God, who is also a Spirit. The Holy Spirit lives in us and is merged with our spirit. Our spirit is dead before conversion, but is made alive when we receive Christ. So we don't have a personal spirituality because our spirit is the portal through which we fellowship with God and is in combination with The Holy Spirit to develop our sanctification.
!

The problem with your thinking is that our 'new nature' is never fully realized on this earth. The Holy Spirit through constant and never ending teaching is sanctifying us. That process of sanctification is bringing us closer to the goal of becoming who Christ has called us to be. The fully realized 'new nature' is to be as Christ was, which is perfection.

How you equate spiritual maturity is very New Age. The idea that we are gods and that in our new nature we are to live as such. Your equating spiritual maturity and the new nature (to the perfection of Christ) as what we have already and need to walk in that newness which has been obtained.

 

[ToBeLoved]

We don't move on to maturity if we have not mastered faith in God. If we are still worrying and fretting and having difficulty believing God's Word, then you haven't mastered the principles of faith. And if you haven't mastered faith, God cannot do much with you. He has to keep working on you to make up that lack in your experience of Him.

Once we have fully mastered the principles of repentance and faith, then we can move on to maturity, but not before,

We do not 'master these principles'. As we walk with the Lord, there are further challenges and overcoming those challenges is what makes our faith stronger. Different and harder challenges as we grow in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:8
"Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."

2 Corinthians 12:9-10
"And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak , then am I strong."

Isaiah 33:2
2 O LORD, be gracious to us; we long for you. Be our strength every morning, our salvation in time of distress.

Hebrews 10:35-38
"Do not let this happy trust in the Lord die away, no matter what happens. Remember your reward! You need to keep on patiently doing God's will if you want Him to do for you all that He has promised. His coming will not be delayed much longer. And those whose faith has made them good in God's sight must live by faith, trusting Him in everything. Otherwise, if they shrink back, God will have no pleasure in them.

Matthew 17:20
"And He said to them, "Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you"

We do not ever master faith. This view does not agree with scripture.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It is what I am trying to get at. I equate spiritual maturity to living according to our new nature. When the New Testament refers to spiritual it means "of The Holy Spirit" not a personal spirituality, which is tending toward New Age and the Occult. The New Testament though recognises that we have a spirit which is that facility that fellowships with God, who is also a Spirit. The Holy Spirit lives in us and is merged with our spirit. Our spirit is dead before conversion, but is made alive when we receive Christ. So we don't have a personal spirituality because our spirit is the portal through which we fellowship with God and is in combination with The Holy Spirit to develop our sanctification.

This is so very, very incorrect.

The fact that Jesus will never leave US or forsake US shows that we have a very personal spirituality. The fact that the Holy Spirit resides in EACH person's heart shows that we have a very personal spirituality. That the Word has been written on OUR hearts shows that we have a very personal spirituality.

Jesus Christ died to reconcile US back to God, so we can have a very, personal spirituality.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Hebrews 6:1 (Amp): "Therefore let us go on and get past the elementary stage in the teachings and doctrine of Christ (the Messiah), advancing steadily toward the completeness and perfection that belong to spiritual maturity. Let us not again be laying the foundation of repentance and abandonment of dead works (dead formalism) and of the faith [by which you turned] to God."

This is an interesting verse because it brings out some issues that we might not have considered in depth. Some have interpreted this as leaving behind the basics and entering into some type of deeper Christian life. They say to themselves, "Well, I'm saved, filled with the Spirit, and now I don't have to think about those things any longer and so I am going to move into the deeper life with God." But somehow they never get there, because doing it this way is like searching for the Holy Grail. They will search and search and search, but never find it. Maybe after becoming quite frustrated they might abandon the Christian life completely through frustration and disillusionment.

My view of this is that we don't skip over the basics in order to access any "deeper life". Actually looking for a "deeper" spiritual experience is more New Age than any progression toward Christian maturity.
We work through the basics and successfully pass each stage, fully understanding the doctrinal and practical issues around it before progressing to the next stage of our experience of God. If we don't successfully master a stage, we keep going back through it until we do. This is the same as any formal academic course. We have to master the stage 1 level before we can advance to stage 2 and 3 and post-graduate stages.

We find that the majority of believers have never advanced beyond the basic stage, and even if they have been in the church for 40 years, it is merely one year of experience and advancement multiplied by 40. Maturity involves years of cumulative experience and growth, not attempting, failing, and repeating the tests at the basic grade for that number of years.

So Hebrews mentions the foundation stage of repentance. Before we can advance beyond that stage, we have to understand what repentance actually is. We learn that it is a completely new way of thinking about God, Christ and ourselves. This thinking then causes a progressive change in our conduct so that we develop into Christlike patterns of thinking and behaviour. If a person is still in bondage to sinful habits and has to repeatedly confess, repent, confess, repent, then he has not passed the basic repentance test. To pass the test, he has to accept that repentance is a one-time event which we grow from. Repeated repentance is like going around and around in orbit but never breaking away to journey further toward the moon or the other planets.

The next basic stage to be successfully mastered is to progress beyond dead forms like liturgies and religious observances, and move toward a spontaneous type of personal and corporate worship which the person fellowships freely with God as a son and heir with Christ. Jesus said that true believers will worship Him in Spirit and in truth. Many Christians cannot worship God unless they are part of a very structured system, and while they are that way, they have not mastered this stage and will be stuck in the rut of formalism until they do.

The third thing mentioned that Christians have to master is a full understanding of the faith that brought them to Christ and the standing they have with God in Christ that they have through faith. Through the basic level of faith, a new Christian learns where they stand with Christ, that they are clothed with the righteousness of Christ and that they can stand before God without any guilt, shame or sin-consciousness. Unless they have that basic level of faith, they can never progress to the levels of faith where they can use the more powerful tools of the Spirit that are effective in the hands of mature Christians.

So this is why the majority of Christians are stuck in these three basic areas. This is why their religion is based on pious words, but have no power to back them up. They remain spiritual children even if they have elder and pastoral responsibilities in their churches. They can only teach what they have mastered in themselves, and so they never get beyond teaching the basics, and so the people they teach never progress beyond the basics.

That's why many churches are full of spiritual children, unable to progress in their experience of God. All they can do is to wistfully look at what the Early Church apostles and believers could accomplish in Christ but not have the ability to do those things themselves.

Why does your OP not include scripture to support it if it is 'Christianity 101'. It should be easy to support scriturally.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

no eye has seen and no eye has heard what God has waiting for those who love him, so each person has something that all christians before have not seen or heard of .. just waiting.

You have only quoted half the scripture. Here is the full quote from 1 Corinthians 2:9-10:
9 But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
So, in the light of verse 10, what you are saying is not right because it is inconsistent with what Paul was saying. The operative word is "but". When you see that in Scripture, it means, "disregard everything that was said before". Paul said that once eye has not seen, etc., BUT (that is, forget that now), God has revealed it all to us!

that was my thought process, but I was curious what you were thinking when you said there is no personalization.

We do have a personal relationship with God but that is the result of us being justified and not the cause of it. Sanctification, ie, the progressive transformation of our thinking and conduct to conform to the nature of Christ, is not a reformation or self-improvement. God never intended to reform us, He killed us by crucifying us with Christ, then made us into a totally new type of person in Christ. This new person is not our present body, although the new person is living in our body. But the body will die someday, and we will receive a glorified body to suit our new person. This is why there is a disparity, a conflict within us, because we have a newly created person in Christ in a natural, sinful body. This is why we are unsettled and groan at times because our new person is waiting for the day when we are going to be fully revealed as the sons of God. So my definition of personalization in Christ is thinking and living according to the new persons we are as the result of being justified by faith.

 

[Alithis]

The problem with your thinking is that our 'new nature' is never fully realized on this earth. The Holy Spirit through constant and never ending teaching is sanctifying us. That process of sanctification is bringing us closer to the goal of becoming who Christ has called us to be. The fully realized 'new nature' is to be as Christ was, which is perfection.

How you equate spiritual maturity is very New Age. The idea that we are gods and that in our new nature we are to live as such. Your equating spiritual maturity and the new nature (to the perfection of Christ) as what we have already and need to walk in that newness which has been obtained.

well .. it is realized in this life .. " by faith"
but don't worry i get what your both saying