(moved) RAPTURE Prophecy, Church, and the Nation of Israel- Last Generation

[Joe Green]

He is saying, if you are not a Christian, he will come as a thief. He will not come
as a thief for those who are watching and ready for the Rapture.
I can tell that you are very confused.

 

[parousia70]

He is saying, if you are not a Christian, he will come as a thief. He will not come
as a thief for those who are watching and ready for the Rapture.

So he came as a thief to those first century peoples as He promised them He would?

Is that what you are saying?

I can tell that you are very confused.

It's no wonder.
You say some very confusing things.

 

[Joe Green]

He is saying, if you are not a Christian, he will come as a thief. He will not come
as a thief for those who are watching and ready for the Rapture.
I can tell that you are very confused.

 

[Joe Green]

Is the Word of God confusing? To some it is, and to some it is not.

 

[parousia70]

Is the Word of God confusing? To some it is, and to some it is not.

Your words are confusing.

The word of God is not.

I know the difference.
Do you?

 

[Joe Green]

But people born after 1988 won't?

Those born after the Rapture, won

But people born after 1988 won't?

Those born after the rapture will not see the Rapture. That will be the beginning
of the 7 year tribulation. There is only one Rapture recorder in the Bible.

 

[Revealing Times]

OK, then back up Scripturally your belief of a rapture removal to heaven.
I 'don't understand' the rapture because it isn't stated in scripture, but mainly because God has other plans for His people on earth.
And for Him to take us away, would mean that His intention to have a people in the holy Land as His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10 and His Light to the nations, Isaiah 49:8, will have failed.

OK Brother, I am going to do this, because I think you are a serious brother who seeks truth, and its just cloudy to you, it was cloudy for me long ago, Satan seeks to confuse us continually. Some people are just trolls. I don't get that feeling with you.

Its a pattern, you have to be able to "hear Jesus'/Gods parables" not all were meant to understand Gods Holy Word. Remember the scriptures here a little there a little, signifying we have to place scriptures together like a Mosaic to see the puzzle...That is what I will attempt to do. I will start out with Israel sinning against God, and God rejecting them for a TIME..........Until he sees fit to call them home. They have 70 Sevens or 70 Weeks of punishment coming unto them.

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think, as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the age.

1. Finish the transgression (NOT YET..They must accept Jesus/Messiah)
2. Make and end of sins (Sins can not end until Jesus returns)
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity(They must Accept Jesus Atonement)
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness (Jesus does this when he returns)
5. To seal up vision and prophecy(All prophecy must be fulfilled)
6. Anoint the most Holy (Jesus is anointed King of Kings)

So God decreed a punishment for Israel, it runs through the Messiahs death, then after 69 weeks he is cut off. Israel's mantle was taken from them and given to the Gentiles, because of their disobedience and unbelief. The Gentiles were to preach the Gospel of Jesus unto the ends of the earth, and the small lot of believing Jews were to do the same. There was Six Beasts who conquered Israel before God dispersed them the world over, they were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome who was in control when the Jews were finally cast out of Jerusalem. So there is one Beast left to go, that is the Anti-Christ who rules with 10 Kings. This is your Seven Headed Beast with 10 Horns.

This Anti-Christ is the one who brings all the "TROUBLE" to Israel, thus it is called "Jacobs Trouble". This period is designed by God to get the results/bring the results required by Daniels 70 Week Decree to come to pass, BEFORE JESUS CAN RETURN.....You see, all of those Six things above are a prophesied truth, they have to come to pass before Jesus returns. Thus this is Gods "70 Weeks Plan" to turn Israel back unto God. It has nothing to do with the Church who are "Saved by Faith, in Jesus Christ via the Blood", NOT BY WORKS.......So, now we need to look back to Leviticus chapter 23 to see Gods revealing pattern.

The Feasts of Leviticus (The pattern of Israel and the Church)

There was Three Spring Feasts, the Feast of Pentecost(Harvest) was separate and set unto itself, then you had Three Fall Feasts.

Jesus fulfilled the Three Spring Feasts.

Feast of Passover (Jesus Blood is our covering)

Feast of First-Fruits (Jesus was the first-fruits)

Feast of Unleavened Bread (Jesus was without Sin)


Then you have the Feast of Pentecost (Harvest/Church Age) which was all alone on the calendar and unto its self.

Feast of Pentecost (The Church Age, we are the body of Christ the Sower, we are Harvesting the Harvest for the Sower, Jesus Christ, we will be doing so until Jesus calls us (Church) home, at the "Last Trump" and he will then Marry us in Heaven, while God is dealing with wayward Israel.)


Feast of Trumpets ( This Feast did nothing, except announce that the Feast of Pentecost was Over, and that the Feasts of Atonement and Tabernacle were nigh at hand.......The LAST TRUMP !! )

The Trump blows, and Pentecost (Church Age) ends, we are called home at the Last Trump, to be with Jesus, just like Paul says. Then what is left? ATONEMENT.........and TABERNACLE.

Feast of Atonement (This was a call for Israel to Repent every Fall. God, just like the 70 Weeks Decree requires, is asking Israel to ATONE for their Sins, this is why they are now in (after the Rapture of the Church) Jacobs Trouble, this is why the Two-Witnesses are sent to Jerusalem, one being Elijah, because his job is to PREACH until Israel repents (Malachi 4:5-6) and they will REPENT....ATONE by accepting Jesus as their Messiah/Savior.

Feast of Tabernacle ( What is the definition of Tabernacle ? To DWELL WITH GOD !!! Israel Repents/Atones, and now she is suited to DWELL WITH GOD..........Jesus Returns, we the Church who were in Heaven for 7 Years Marrying Jesus, return with Jesus, IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation (Jacobs Trouble) and now Israel, who has atoned, by accepting Jesus Christ as their Messiah, will forever more DWELL WITH GOD.

It is a pattern, there s much more that shows this in the bible, you just have to place it together. People look at things in to linear of a manner, you have to look at the bible as a total puzzle.

 

[Joe Green]

Here are the scriptures for the Rapture again, 1 Thess. 4:16 and 17, St. Matthew
24:30, 1 Corinthians 15:51 and 52, Heb. 10:25, St. Matthew 24:37.

 

[Joe Green]

Here are the scriptures for the Rapture again, 1 Thess. 4:16 and 17, St. Matthew
24:30, 1 Corinthians 15:51 and 52, Heb. 10:25, St. Matthew 24:37.

The Bible is not a puzzle to me.

 

[parousia70]

Those born after the rapture will not see the Rapture. That will be the beginning
of the 7 year tribulation. There is only one Rapture recorder in the Bible.

OK, but you said people born "Between 1948 and 1988"
Why wouldn't you just say "people born between 1948 and the Rapture?

Why the 1988 cut off?

 

[keras]

OK Brother, I am going to do this, because I think you are a serious brother who seeks truth, and its just cloudy to you, it was cloudy for me long ago, Satan seeks to confuse us continually. Some people are just trolls. I don't get that feeling with you.

Thank you for your time to do this, however as New Testament teaching clearly states there is only one people of God, you entire premise of Church and Israel being two separate people of God is wrong. Jews are broken off, but can be grafted back in again as Romans 11:24 says, only if they become Christian believers.
Jeremiah 12:14-17 states this fact.

Here are the scriptures for the Rapture again, 1 Thess. 4:16 and 17, St. Matthew 24:30, 1 Corinthians 15:51 and 52, Heb. 10:25, St. Matthew 24:37.

I looked up each of these verses and carefully read them.
Nowhere do they say that God will take people up to heaven. Where does that idea come from?

 

[Revealing Times]

Thank you for your time to do this, however as New Testament teaching clearly states there is only one people of God, you entire premise of Church and Israel being two separate people of God is wrong. Jews are broken off, but can be grafted back in again as Romans 11:24 says, only if they become Christian believers.
Jeremiah 12:14-17 states this fact.

Again, this is another misconstrued fact. We all know and understand that all are one in Jesus Christ, there is neither Jew, nor Gentile, slave or freeman etc. etc. But you guys allow this one scripture to EXCLUDE GOD from dealing with Jews and Gentiles in different time frames.........BUT IN LIKE MANNER......Both have to repent of their sins to come into Gods/Jesus' family. GOD HAS CHOSEN different time frames to call Gentiles, then Jews to repentance. The Scriptures even tells us this if you think about it....You have seen it thousands of times, and you just NEVER SAW IT for what it says. LOOK..........LET IT SINK IN !!

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery,(SECRET) lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. BOOM........Its right there.

Why does Paul say Blindness IN PART ? Because not all Jews will be blinded, there are a few Messianic Jews alive, and Paul and a handful of Jews helped spread the Gospel at the start.

But blindness has come to Israel (For the Most part) until the time of the GENTILES IS FULFILL............Then we are Raptured, our time is OVER, God calls the Gentile Church to Heaven, along with a few Jewish Christians or Messianic Jews.

So I AGREE, we are all one in Christ Jesus, we pre tribbers know this, but you guys want to take this verse/passage, and tie Gods hands as to the time he can deal with the Gentiles and the Jews. We are all brothers in Christ in Gods Family. But not all of the "FAMILY" will accept God/Jesus at the same time, Israel goes through the TROUBLES, that is why the Old Testament calls it Jacobs Trouble.

God deals with the Jewish nation at a DIFFERENT TIME......That is why the are Blinded until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. NOT IN A DIFFERENT MANNER.........They must accept Jesus Christ.

You are trying to, by mistake it seems, LIMIT GOD as to when and where He can deal with peoples as he pleases. God knows what Hes doing, He has chosen to BLIND ISRAEL, until the Gentiles Time is fulfilled, thus we are Raptured.

 

[keras]

blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. BOOM........Its right there.

Yes, God has blinded the Jews, they refuse to even mention the Name of Jesus. So when do you think the Gentiles will be admitted in full strength? It seems from Zechariah 12 and 13, that Judah is not judged and a remnant saved until the Return.
Note from Revelation 12:9-17, that Christians are on earth until the Return.

 

[Revealing Times]

Yes, God has blinded the Jews, they refuse to even mention the Name of Jesus. So when do you think the Gentiles will be admitted in full strength? It seems from Zechariah 12 and 13, that Judah is not judged and a remnant saved until the Return.
Note from Revelation 12:9-17, that Christians are on earth until the Return.

In Rev. 12, the Woman is Israel, not the Church, we understand this because in Gen. 37 Joseph had a dream that the Sun (Jacob) Moon (Rachel/Leah) and 11 Stars (Brothers) would pay obeisance unto him, so she is dressed in the Sen, moon and 12 Stars in Revelation 12. Who is Israels SEED ? Well Abraham was promised a seed that would take away all men's sin, JESUS. In Galatians chapter 3 Paul speaks about this:

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

So the REMNANT of the SEED that keeps the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus is self explanatory. A remnant is a SMALL part of something.........Jesus is the SEED, and those that keep the commandments and have the testimony are the REMNANT of the Church, they did not have the Oil in their Lamps, but missed the call of the Bridegroom. The Church is in Heaven the REMNANT of the SEED (Jesus) of the Woman (Israel) are being targeted by the Dragon (Satan) because he could not get at the Woman (Israel) because God protects her for 1260 days in the Wilderness.

Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,(Christians who missed the Rapture) which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Jesus doesn't come back until Zechariah chapter 14, he sets foot on the Mt. of Olives. Then a great earthquake happens and we get the Seventh Vial if we FAST FORWARD to Rev. 16.

The 6th Vial entices the Kings of the East to come against Israel at Meggido, (there is no 200 Million Horsemen, that's the 6th Trumpet) then Jesus shows up (Zechariah 14 is a cross reference) and we see that God calls the Nations that come against Israel, BABYLON.....And they FALL.

Revelation 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts(Jerusalem/Earthquake/Zechariah 14), and the cities of the nations fellThe nations that gathered against Israel, THEY FALL/Jesus destroys them) and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

These Nations that come against Israel, the Anti-Christ, his Kings (European Kings) and the Kings of the East (Arab countries) are going to be seen by God as BABYLON. The FALL right here. Babylon has Fallen.

In short, the Church is Raptured, Israel atones for her sins, God protects Israel in the Wilderness (probably Petra) when the Anti-Christ makes war with the Saints (Israel and overcomes them/conquers Jerusalem). The Remnant of Israel that God saves are all of those that Flee to the Mountain, the ones that accepted Jesus as the Messiah (Zechariah 12:10 13:1) just before the Abomination of Desolation happens. The Martyrs under the Alter in Seal number 5 are Martyrs of Christ Jesus, they are beheaded. They are told to wait until their brothers are killed also. This is why it is important to be Ready when Jesus calls us to Heaven with a shout.

Say you had kids and a Wife who were sold Christians, etc. and others, you see up to One Billion (maybe 500 Million) people die at once, you would know in your heart if you were left, that you missed the Rapture, and you would rededicate your life to Jesus 100 percent. I am just using you as an example, but you know there is going to be many people who will miss the Wedding Feast because they do not have their Lamps full of Oil. THOSE CAN ATTAIN SALVATION.... But they must go through the Tribulation period, and sadly, most will pay with their lives. God protects Israel, because he wants a Remnant of Israel left. Jesus is going to rule from Jerusalem.

There is a lot of reasons that make it appear there is no Rapture to many. But the scriptures clear all that up, in every instance,when we study all the pertinent facts.

 

[keras]

There is a lot of reasons that make it appear there is no Rapture to many. But the scriptures clear all that up, in every instance,when we study all the pertinent facts.

The fact is that we Christians are the objects of God's mercy and it is in the very place, [the holy Land] that those who were not My people, they will be called the sons of the Living God. Romans 9:24-26
Then Paul says: About ethnic Israel; only a remnant will be saved, for the Lord's judgement on the land will be final, like for Sodom.....The Gentiles achieved righteousness by faith, [became Christian's] but the Jews under the Law never achieved it...... Romans 9:27-33
That passage is the definitive scriptural proof that the Jewish people are no longer the special people of God, but it is true Christian individuals, who will be gathered into the holy Land and be called God's people.

Revelation 12:1-7 is ethnic Israel, [Judah, actually] who gave birth to Jesus, but verses 8-17 plainly apply to Christians.
Who are still in the world, never is it prophesied that we go to heaven.

 

[Revealing Times]

Revelation 12:1-7 is ethnic Israel, [Judah, actually] who gave birth to Jesus, but verses 8-17 plainly apply to Christians.
Who are still in the world, never is it prophesied that we go to heaven.

My understanding is easily proven. It right there in front of all eyes to see. We just have to look for that which is in plain sight.

Rev. 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. {Israel}

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. { Israel, the Church is in Heaven, the Remnant of the Church are Beheaded and Martyred. }

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

These are TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES. The Woman doesn't change to the Church halfway through the Chapter, the WOMAN is protected for 1260 Days, in Rev. 13 the Beast is given power to overcome the saints for 42 Months (1260 days). The REMNANT is the Church that is left, its the REMNANT OF THE SEED (Jesus).

Its clearly two different entities in this one Verse, the WOMAN (Israel) and the Remnant of Jesus (Seed). Rev. 19 shows the Saints Marrying the Lamb, then returning with Him. The evidence is overwhelming, we just can't, in many cases, seem to get shut of our old ideas.

 

[Joe Green]

OK, but you said people born "Between 1948 and 1988"
Why wouldn't you just say "people born between 1948 and the Rapture?

Why the 1988 cut off?

From 1948 to 1988 is one generation, Rapture no later then 2023, Psalm 90:10,
life span of man 70 to 80 years, average would be 75. Also, Abraham entered the promise land at 75, Gen.12:5.Thus that gets us to 2023 Rapture.
Google year 2023, Rapture 2023 and Prophecy 2023.

 

[parousia70]

From 1948 to 1988 is one generation

What does that have to do with anything?
If 1948-1988 is one generation, then that one generation HAS PASSED.

 

[keras]

These are TWO DIFFERENT ENTITIES. The Woman doesn't change to the Church halfway through the Chapter, the WOMAN is protected for 1260 Days, in Rev. 13 the Beast is given power to overcome the saints for 42 Months (1260 days). The REMNANT is the Church that is left, its the REMNANT OF THE SEED (Jesus).

Its clearly two different entities in this one Verse, the WOMAN (Israel) and the Remnant of Jesus (Seed). Rev. 19 shows the Saints Marrying the Lamb, then returning with Him. The evidence is overwhelming, we just can't, in many cases, seem to get shut of our old ideas.

The two entities in Rev 12 from verses 6 to 17, are both Christians. This is explained by Daniel 11:32 and Zechariah 14:1-2, where the all the Christian peoples are living in all of the holy land, divide into 2 groups; those who forsake the Covenant and those who remain faithful to their God. The former remain in the holy Land, the latter are 'exiled' - taken to a place of safety.
Verse 17 undeniably refers to Christians only.
Your determination to make them Jews and Christians, shows how rapture believers are forced to wrongly interpret scripture.

 

[Joe Green]

What does that have to do with anything?
If 1948-1988 is one generation, then that one generation HAS PASSED.

The NT speaks about the last generation before the second coming of Jesus. The
verse is in Matthew, so it has much to say concerning Prophecy. All prophecies has been 100% correct.