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MOVED FROM OUTREACH: Scary Evolution O.O

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by Ead, Jul 17, 2006.

  1. Ead

    Ead New Member

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    Why do some Christians fear evolution so much? There are many forums online (And sites, and other things) that have only the specific use to try and dismantle Evolution. Why? I mean, if they believed that Evolution was wrong and stuff, why even feel threatened by it?

    So, why do many Christians attack Evolution like its a plague?
     
  2. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    I don't know any that actually fear evolution. Can one disagree with something without fearing it? Do you fear creation?

    My main disagreements with it are epistemological. Any scientific theory of origins, whether evolution (origin of the various species), the big bang (origin of the universe), etc. are all based in naturalism. Science must assume methodological naturalism before any investigation of evidence takes place. That is to say it must assume a priori that a miracle was not involved in the creation process. Yet we clearly read in the Bible that miracles were involved both in the creation of species and of the universe.

    You see, it all comes down to the issue of miracles. Science cannot detect them nor even recognize them. Yet the universe cannot be logically explained without them. I'll explain:

    When scientific theories of origins are taken to their logical conclusion they lead to beliefs such as acausality (something came from nothing uncaused) or infinite regression (the idea that there are an infinite number of causes going back forever). The only alternative would be a supernatural, non-material, non-temporal, self-existing, self-determining first cause which would preclude a purely scientific epistemology.

    Thus I’ve come to believe in a supernatural beginning, and the account recorded in the Bible makes the most sense. Thus, while science can play a role, it would be epistemologically flawed to start with it.

    Hope that clears things up. :) Do I look scared to you? :cool:
     
    TexasSky likes this.
  3. Key

    Key The Opener of Locks

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    Hello again. I see you like this topic.

    We don’t fear it, the problem arise when people (You yourself were duped before I explained some thing to you) are lead to believe this is “Absolute Truth” that this is “Fact” as opposed a “Theory”

    A Theory I might add which may or may not be true(This is almost never explaiend or ever presented), but is an assumption we have generated from the limited evidence we have found, working within the confines that our technology will allow us, and using other theories and hypothesis (Like the Constant Earth Theory) to assume this is correct. I might also add that much of the data that we have already was gathered using outdated and questionable methods, but is still held as viable evidence.



    There are countless skeptic sites that try to dismantle Christianity, as well.

    But in the end, I believe it stems from the idea that is generated by the Skeptic / Atheist communities that feel that “If Evolution is True, then Christianity Wrong”. Many of them cling to Evolution Dogma so strongly in their faith in this “Theory” is the “Truth” that they would put the pope to shame.

    Is it fear, No, it is a desire to inform the public that this is “Just a Theory” a Theory that I might add is nothing more then the product of one mans imagination (Charles Darwin). Now many people have added to this theory, but it is still a man made product.

    I view it as a work of fiction, a grand a great story, that is impressive and almost has a life of it’s own, (I like to joke that the only thing Evolving is the Theory itself).

    Because it is a plague that corrupts minds, into accepting this “Story” as “The Truth”, look at how adamantly scientific societies and communities defend it, as if it is their Holy Grail. How do they do this, why this Vigor and Vanguard for a this “Theory” is Newton’s Theory of Universal Gravitation so defended?

    Funny this Theory, it as if it is a Religion onto itself.

    Have I answered your Questions?

    God Bless

    Key
     
    TexasSky likes this.
  4. Rafael

    Rafael Only time enough for love

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    What's to fear other than seeing something so illogical pass a truth?? There is no way all this finely tuned universe with it's myriads of brilliant design in life can be accidental, yet that is the lie we are taught in school. We also think of time in linear terms while eternity has neither past nor future. Which reality has more substance over shadow? Is it ours which the Bible says we look through darkly (1Cor.13:12) or the dimension(s) God sees from and uses for whatever He wills? Time and eternity are relative to His will and power and not limited to our comprehension of the universe and constraints of linear time.
    I've already given links in the past that show where recent scientific findings actually drive the scientists to faith by their professions - IF - and a big "if", they are able to approach the theory of evolution with a pure unbiased, unprejudiced use of the scientific method. When lies are reinforced from childhood, it is hard to change and break away from ones prejudice towards the idea of "intelligent design" and God. Everything has to be explained as accident even though the evidence proves over and over that there is no expansive fossil record where there should be one, nor are any of the major claims as evidence of evolution able to hold water when examined for what they are. Attempting to explain creation without a creator requires theories, and if they don't fit then just wrap a lie and buried in well of argument with the biggest most intelligent sounding words used to disguise what is simple and easy to see in life. We live and experience life as conscious beings as a gift from God with God seen everywhere, in everything, speaking to us constantly with life. We can also see the evil of sin and death in the world and are told to do good and choose love, which is God, over that which is of the great deceiver and father of lies.
     
  5. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

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    Groups that have adopted Biblical literalism as a hermeneutic have the problem that they often have absolutely no basis for belief but this. They don't have tradition, they don't have guidance in how to interpret Scripture...

    So if they can't trust everything in the Bible to be literal fact, they can't see any way to support their whole philosophical stance.

    Thus, any claim which contradicts this stance is an assault on the entire faith, given those assumptions.

    This is why most Christians don't accept these assumptions. Anti-evolution stuff is fairly rare outside the US, where we got it from the fundamentalist revival movement.

    Ironically, the literalism in question is more modernist than evolution.
     
    Dal M. likes this.
  6. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

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    Well said.
     
  7. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    BTW, Ead, don't let anyone fool you with this literalism stuff. There's not a single theologian, YEC or other wise, that believes in using only literal interpretations, even in the book of Genesis. It's a straw man that has literally nothing to do with the debate.
     
  8. prophecystudent

    prophecystudent Senior Member

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    I have a different slant on the question.

    I don't know a single Christian that fears evolution. Every one I know is convinced that evolution is a THEORY and has never been proven. Having said that, there is little scientific "proof" that creation happened, either. No, I don't intend to start a debate on the merits of one over the other. It is a never ending circle of round about arguments and solves little.

    I think most Christians oppose the idea of evolution on a different level. I am not threatened by evolution theory, because I KNOW the truth.

    My concern is the damage the teaching of evolution as fact in our schools is leading our young people away from God. If they are taught, and believe that God was not involved in creating the universe, then there is a great danger that they will turn out atheistic, and end up in a place that is not very nice.

    The danger is to the eternal souls who are fooled by all the evolutionists hype, to the detriment of their eternal home and souls.

    Fred
     
  9. NinjaYaddaYaddaYadda

    NinjaYaddaYaddaYadda New Member

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    Because creationists want the Bible to be literally true. Evolution and creationism are incompatible.

    But I don't think most Christians refuse to accept evolution so much as they don't really know what it is. They do such things like fail to understand what a scientific theory is (as per at least one post here).
     
  10. Dannager

    Dannager Back in Town

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    A few of you need to be reminded that gravity is "just a theory" as well. So is germ theory and the theory of relativity. Furthermore, the theory of evolution has so much evidence in its support as to be nearly invulnerable to attack. Just because evolutionary theory is a theory doesn't mean that it's somehow weak. It is one of the strongest scientific theories currently in existance.
     
  11. Stinker

    Stinker Senior Veteran

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    What caused me to change my position on this subject was that I would be forced to maintain that the reason all snakes crawl on their bellies today is because of the Theological curse of Genesis 3:14

    And the Lord God said unto the serpent, "Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life."
     
  12. Key

    Key The Opener of Locks

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    There seems to be a great confusion regarding the Theory of Gravity, and The Law of Gravity, as well as some other "Theories" that seems to be taken as fact. I would like to ask that you please take a moment to read this regarding the confusion surrounding the the Theory of Gravity.

    Thanks.

    God Bless

    Key
     
  13. ebia

    ebia Senior Contributor

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    Outside the US only a tiny minority of Christians have a problem with the Evolution. The majority who don't can only speculate why those that do are so defensive. Those who are defensive about it are hardly likely to respond constructively to question worded as you have.
     
  14. Jase

    Jase New Member

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    The Flat-Earth Society might disagree with you.
     
  15. Jase

    Jase New Member

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    Evolution, or science for that matter, is not in the business of making anyone atheist or claiming God doesn't exist. Science is used to try to explain the observable world. That in no way means that it all happened "accidentally". Why isn't it possible for God to use evolution to continue to create diversity within His creation? Most Christian scientists accept evolution as God's tool for life. Are they not "true Christians"?

    And most anti-evolutionists accept evolution, they just claim it isn't really evolution - or it's microevolution which is completely different.
     
  16. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    It was only a matter of time before someone carted out the flat earth straw man. Sorry guys, no one ever believed it. Christian flat earthism is a myth.

    The Myth of the Flat Earth
     
  17. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

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    The flat earth is a joke.

    Geocentrism isn't, and we've had geocentrists right here at Christian Forums explaining that the "theory" of heliocentrism contradicts the plain teaching of the Bible.
     
  18. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    No, but it must assume God hasn't acted supernaturally in the particular area being studied. This is called methodological naturalism or scientific naturalism (not to be confused with ontological naturalism). In origins science, it is assumed that there were no additions to natural processes in the creation process. They have no choice. Supernatural phenomenon is not consistent with normal repeatable natural processes. It can't be verified or falsified. Scientists don't dispute this. I'm curious, do you deny that Genesis conveys a supernatural creation, with God acting outside of normal natural processes?

    Because it renders Him unnecessary. Why is God needed in a system that sufficiently works on natural processes alone? Do you not believe that evolution can work apart from supernatural intervention? If so, then you are admitting it is not scientifically sound.

    Of course they are. They just have a flawed epistemology about origins and usually very bad theology. After all, they're scientists, not theologians. They believe in miracles but don't' seem to want to believe God used them in the creative process. They accept a miraculous Resurrection, but for some reason what to believe in a natural creation.

    Creationists accept variation in species. This is not evolution. They reject the idea that information can be added from mutations—that more complex creatures can arise from simpler organisms. Microevolution is a confusing term that creationists don't use anymore.
     
  19. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

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    Well, gosh. I guess I must be promoting some kind of atheist theory of car repair, because I pretty much assume God hasn't acted supernaturally in any way related to the functioning of my car. And I go to a secular mechanic.
     
  20. Calminian

    Calminian Senior Veteran

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    Geocentrism is also a joke. In its heyday it was pushed primarily by "scientists", not by theologians. It was the scientists of his day that drove Galileo into seclusion. The theologians of then were much like the theologians of today, they caved to whatever scientists told them to believe. And even then they were split on the issue of geocentrism.

    There is nothing in scripture to remotely suggest the sun and stars orbited the earth. Orbits have to do with gravity, inertia and centrifugal force—concepts the biblical writers weren't even remotely aware of. The best one can possibly do is point to terms like sunset and sunrise—terms that even astrophysicists use today. And they use them correctly, I might add. All movement is relative. From our frame of reference, the heavens do go around the earth. This has nothing to do with orbits, nor geocentrism. When you tell your kids to be still in the back seat, are you speaking of their movement relative to the inside of the car, or to the road you are traveling 60 mph on? Sunset is not figurative language.

    Okay, what's next, the solid dome sky?
     
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