Mother jailed for refusing to have 4 year old son circumsized

Fenny the Fox

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Messy

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http://abcnews.go.com/Health/mom-jailed-circumcision-dispute-sons-father/story?id=31127540

Thoughts on this one?

Honestly, I find it absurd that a judge could legally require a parent to force a child to undergo a cosmetic, essetially medically irrelevant surgery that could be both physically and psychologically damaging at his age.
Yes that's absurd. She's in jail????
My ex wanted to have my son's tonsils removed because he was sick a lot then and I saw it on youtube and thought: No way! That was the only time I really stood up to him to protect my son. Luckily then it wasn't necessary anymore.
 
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Fenny the Fox

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Technically, it was a dispute between parents which the father brought before the judge and she was subsequently jailed for refusing to show up in court.
Well, you are right there. It technically was, but the root cause of her not showing up to the court (which was to reprimand for failing to follow court order) was keeping her child away so that the court order for him to be circumcized could not be forced. But you are right.
 
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FreeSpirit74

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http://abcnews.go.com/Health/mom-jailed-circumcision-dispute-sons-father/story?id=31127540

Thoughts on this one?

Honestly, I find it absurd that a judge could legally require a parent to force a child to undergo a cosmetic, essetially medically irrelevant surgery that could be both physically and psychologically damaging at his age.

My ex was snipped at age 11. The skin grew over the top, so he couldn't urinate. The only thing he remembers that was "bad" about it was it burned to pee during the healing stage. But he didn't suffer any psychological damage, and predicting that will occur shows just how namby-pamby and weak we as a society have become. If getting a foreskin removed is the worst thing that ever happens to this kid (or any male for that matter), he is one lucky person.
 
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NightHawkeye

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Well, you are right there. It technically was, but the root cause of her not showing up to the court (which was to reprimand for failing to follow court order) was keeping her child away so that the court order for him to be circumcized could not be forced. But you are right.
The more important point is that this was a legal dispute between parents about a medical procedure on "their" child. The mother lost the legal dispute and then refused to comply with the court order.

There is no clear-cut right or wrong on the procedure. In some respects it's like vaccination. The benefits are documented and well understood but there are also disadvantages, real and perceived.
 
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FreeSpirit74

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Yes that's absurd. She's in jail????
My ex wanted to have my son's tonsils removed because he was sick a lot then and I saw it on youtube and thought: No way! That was the only time I really stood up to him to protect my son. Luckily then it wasn't necessary anymore.

Tonsillitis is no joke. I had it when I was 19. Couldn't swallow without pain, couldn't talk, 103 fever for multiple days, and I had
tonsilloliths besides. Every time I swallowed they would hit together, and it was PAINFUL.
 
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Fenny the Fox

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My ex was snipped at age 11. The skin grew over the top, so he couldn't urinate. The only thing he remembers that was "bad" about it was it burned to pee during the healing stage. But he didn't suffer any psychological damage, and predicting that will occur shows just how namby-pamby and weak we as a society have become. If getting a foreskin removed is the worst thing that ever happens to this kid (or any male for that matter), he is one lucky person.
Big difference between a medically necessary procedure -like in your ex's case- and doing so when it is not at all necessary. Sure, your was fine afterwards - it was also a needed thing to do and I am sure he, at 11, could recognize that and the fact it alleviated a lot of issues makes a difference as well.

That is not the case here - this is a 4 year old who has no current issues with his foreskin (so far as we know) and who is being forced by the legal system to have what is essentially a cosmetic surgery.
 
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cow451

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Big difference between a medically necessary procedure -like in your ex's case- and doing so when it is not at all necessary. Sure, your was fine afterwards - it was also a needed thing to do and I am sure he, at 11, could recognize that and the fact it alleviated a lot of issues makes a difference as well.

That is not the case here - this is a 4 year old who has no current issues with his foreskin (so far as we know) and who is being forced by the legal system to have what is essentially a cosmetic surgery.
Why Circumcision Lowers the Risk of HIV Transmission.
 
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KitKatMatt

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Fenny the Fox

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While this is a potential outcome of circumcision, it is only indicated as being so effective for reduction in nations with high heterosexual rates of HIV transmission. And even then, use of condoms is more effective than circumcision can be or will be. And even WHO and other groups do not seem to feel it is necessary to push in Western, developed, low-rate countries.
It has little to no shown effects in anal sex -especially in homosexual contact- the groups most effected in the US

To quote Van Howe et al:
"Why are circumcision proponents expending so much time and energy promoting mass circumcision to North Americans when their supposed aim is to prevent HIV in Africa? The circumcision rate is declining in the US, especially on the west coast; the two North American national paediatric organisations have elected not to endorse the practice, and the practice’s legality has been questioned in both the medical and legal literature. ‘Playing the HIV card’ misdirects the fear understandably generated in North Americans by the HIV/AIDS pandemic into a concrete action: the perpetuation of the outdated practice of neonatal circumcision."
http://www.cirp.org/library/disease/HIV/vanhowe2005a/
 
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cow451

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This one always confused me. Is having unprotected sex with HIV positive people so important that we justify circumcision for a reduction in transmission rates?

Because that's what I see every time someone mentions this. Which is absurd.

Secret surgery free method to drastically reduce HIV transmission: condoms.
No one is suggesting that circumcision is a substitute for other safe sex practices, including abstinence. Surprisingly to some, condoms are not 100% effective. Circumcision reduces the transmission of disease, period. Someone with an STD is more susceptible to contracting HIV (and other infections) due to a weakened immune system.

Now, the anti-circumcision camp is equally histrionic about the "problems" caused by this procedure. So, there is no absolute 'right" or "wrong"-- as another poster noted. It has it's potential benefits and negatives and the parents have to decide for themselves. The problem is when the parents do not agree.
 
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Paradoxum

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Circumcision should be against the law. It is genital mutilation.

Now, the anti-circumcision camp is equally histrionic about the "problems" caused by this procedure. So, there is no absolute 'right" or "wrong"-- as another poster noted. It has it's potential benefits and negatives and the parents have to decide for themselves. The problem is when the parents do not agree.

How is there no absolute right or wrong? It's the genital mutilation of children. It should be against the law. Vague potential benefits, that might not actually provide any benefit, never justify cutting off part of a child's genitals, and reducing function.
 
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KitKatMatt

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The problem is when the parents do not agree.

Unless it's a case of circumcision due to a medical condition needing to be fixed or alleviated, I'd say the problem is when the person being circumcised doesn't consent to the operation.
 
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Messy

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No one is suggesting that circumcision is a substitute for other safe sex practices, including abstinence. Surprisingly to some, condoms are not 100% effective. Circumcision reduces the transmission of disease, period. Someone with an STD is more susceptible to contracting HIV (and other infections) due to a weakened immune system.

Now, the anti-circumcision camp is equally histrionic about the "problems" caused by this procedure. So, there is no absolute 'right" or "wrong"-- as another poster noted. It has it's potential benefits and negatives and the parents have to decide for themselves. The problem is when the parents do not agree.
Yes. I wonder if the dad's a Jew. Then she could have known that.
 
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mmksparbud

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It was originally a religious practice--for thousands of years--some were done on adults---no wild crazy physiological, psychological ramifications. The bible says on the 8th day after birth--which, incidentally,, coincides with when the child's clotting factors kick in. But this was always a religious requirement which became irrelevant with the resurrected Christ so why would it be a part of today's culture except for those who's religion require it?
As to why God would choose this practice as a sign between God and man is something I've never understood---one of those questions I intent on asking next time I see Him.
 
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HannahT

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I know my father had it done when he was young due to urinary tract infections. My FIL had it done after we were married, and I know was for medical reasons too. lol I just can't remember what his were!

This couple should be able to work it out. I realize they can't - their in court. I say leave it alone, unless you have circumstances - like the male members of our family - and you need too.
 
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Gadarene

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I know my father had it done when he was young due to urinary tract infections.

Still not really an amazing reason (generally, medically speaking) to have a boy circumcised. It's almost as if antibiotics don't exist.
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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http://abcnews.go.com/Health/mom-jailed-circumcision-dispute-sons-father/story?id=31127540

Thoughts on this one?

Honestly, I find it absurd that a judge could legally require a parent to force a child to undergo a cosmetic, essetially medically irrelevant surgery that could be both physically and psychologically damaging at his age.

Unless the circumcision is like a life or death thing I don't get why the court would order for it. Most circumcisions are not for medical reasons, but looks or religious reasons, I think.
 
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