Most moral army in the world? (Thread Moved)

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Anyone who moralizes over somebody wearing a lettered t-shirt in a bar while ignoring the fact that the other side has sworn for over a half-century to wipe him and all his countrymen off the map loses the morality argument IMHO.

"Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn't stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren't surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too," he wrote in the Jerusalem Post.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...on-Gilad-calls-on-Israel-to-flatten-Gaza.html

Oops.

Why do you act as if Israelis have been in Palestine/Israel all along and it is the Palestinians who are infringing upon the rights of the Israelis? Would you be okay with immigrants taking over your country forcibly and oppressing you and all your countrymen and then claiming to be the victims when you defend yourselves?

 

[NightHawkeye]

"Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn't stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren't surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too," he wrote in the Jerusalem Post.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...on-Gilad-calls-on-Israel-to-flatten-Gaza.html

Oops.

Why do you act as if Israelis have been in Palestine/Israel all along and it is the Palestinians who are infringing upon the rights of the Israelis? Would you be okay with immigrants taking over your country forcibly and oppressing you and all your countrymen and then claiming to be the victims when you defend yourselves?

Recognize Israel, negotiate in good faith, and quit calling for the destruction of the Jewish state.

It's not complicated.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Recognize Israel, negotiate in good faith, and quit calling for the destruction of the Jewish state.

It's not complicated.

Stop stealing Palestinian land and claiming to be the victim while you oppress others.

It's not complicated.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Stop stealing Palestinian land and claiming to be the victim while you oppress others.

It's not complicated.

Sounds like a deal to me then, if you're ready to sign.

Where's the peace table?

 

[Albion]

Why do you act as if Israelis have been in Palestine/Israel all along and it is the Palestinians who are infringing upon the rights of the Israelis? Would you be okay with immigrants taking over your country forcibly and oppressing you and all your countrymen and then claiming to be the victims when you defend yourselves?

Don't put words into my mouth, and I didn't "act" like any of that. I think what I wrote was clear enough that I will stand on it, just as it is.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Sounds like a deal to me then, if you're ready to sign.

Where's the peace table?

ha, if only it was that easy for the countries themselves.

Don't put words into my mouth, and I didn't "act" like any of that. I think what I wrote was clear enough that I will stand on it, just as it is.

I didn't put words in your mouth. If you want to bring in context though, it would be nice if you brought in the entire context.

 

[NightHawkeye]

ha, if only it was that easy for the countries themselves.

It is. It's no harder for leaders of the neighboring Arab states to recognize Israel's right to exist than it is for you.

They just don't want to.

 

[interpreter]

+1. Exactly.

Esoteric theology is an utter waste of time. Weird, speculative interpretations are also a waste of time. Confounding OT wars of survival directly said to have been called by God with NT ethics is a waste of time.

LOL. You must be a futurist. To entertain the futurist view of the Revelation for one second is wasting time because John said the Revelation would begin unfolding "with speed." The first seal was opened in 312 AD when the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds, and Jesus came into power through St. Constantine who rode a white horse and conquered with a bow. That is the historicist view which might sound a bit esoteric and weird to you if you have not heard it before.

People who are obsessed with war will always find an excuse for it. Politicians will always find an excuse for it. But Jesus never commanded us to build an army, nor invade, nor punish unbelievers or harm people and the first Christians who were close to those who knew Him personally were all pacifists. It's on the record.

Yes, in the beginning, Christians were pacifists, but Jesus commanded those of us in a Christian nation to kill His enemies (in Luke 19:27). That's what Christian armies have done in numerous just wars since 312 AD.

 

[ContraMundum]

LOL. You must be a futurist.

Wrong. Dead wrong.

Yes, in the beginning, Christians were pacifists, but Jesus commanded those of us in a Christian nation to kill His enemies (in Luke 19:27). That's what Christian armies have done in numerous just wars since 312 AD.

Wow, no one agrees with your novel and fleshy interpretation of Luke 19:27 but you won't back down. How sad.

 

[ContraMundum]

Sounds like a deal to me then, if you're ready to sign.

Where's the peace table?

Exactly. But Islamists/political Muslims like our friend here don't want to hear both sides of the story- after all Israel is (to them) an Islamic waqf and shouldn't be run by anyone but them- the ethnic cleansing or at least suppression of the Jews is all part of the grand scheme of things. There will be no enduring peace ever with the Ummah. They just can't ignore their own writings and Islamism will always pop back up after a while.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

It is. It's no harder for leaders of the neighboring Arab states to recognize Israel's right to exist than it is for you.

They just don't want to.

Yeah, because Israel instills such good will when it continues to build illegal settlements on the one hand while talking big about peace (for PR purposes, probably, so both parties can continue to defend their disgusting support of Israel) . It's no harder for leaders of the Zionist country that took Palestine by force and continues to oppress its indigenous population to recognize Palestinians right to live in their own land than it is for you.

They just don't want to.

 

[ken777]

Vacating Gaza worked real well didn't it

I've seen different figures for the settlements in West Bank but they are all a tiny percentage. And the lives of Palestinians are of a higher quality when they are close to a settlement. It is only the militants who are upset.

 

[ContraMundum]

Vacating Gaza worked real well didn't it

I've seen different figures for the settlements in West Bank but they are all a tiny percentage. And the lives of Palestinians are of a higher quality when they are close to a settlement. It is only the militants who are upset.

Oh man....EXACTLY. A close friend of mine just came back from the West Bank and said the people are happy, they have a decent standard of living for the Middle East (this guy is Lebanese) and that there are some very wealthy people to boot. He also said the Arabs living in Israel have everything that the Jews have.

But I am also ready to recognize that people who are obsessed/brainwashed/duped by politicized Islam will immediately trawl the internet to plaster threads like this with internet "evidence" that attempts to build a testimony that goes against what is actually happening in the real world from the mouths of its occupants. (eg. all Muslims are victims of Zionists/Jews no matter what is said by the people who live in the region- and all Muslims are justified in being violent and are innocent of any wrongdoing in the region or on planet Earth) This is because there needs to be a scapegoat/enemy to justify jihad. Simple as that.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Vacating Gaza worked real well didn't it

Yeah, someone needs to teach Israel what it's like to actually relinquish control of what's not theirs. They do not have the authority to enforce no-go zones in land that is not theirs nor do they have the authority to shoot fishers in their own waters.

I've seen different figures for the settlements in West Bank but they are all a tiny percentage. And the lives of Palestinians are of a higher quality when they are close to a settlement. It is only the militants who are upset.

LOL. Talk about delusion.

That 90-year-old woman is supremely upset at the Israelis taking over a part of her home and apparently only militants get upset over stolen property, ergo she must be a militant.

I'm sure if someone takes over your house and oppresses you, you wont be upset at all. Right?

 

[ContraMundum]

LBaM makes a prophet out of me every time.

She spake thus:

Yeah, someone needs to teach Israel what it's like to actually relinquish control of what's not theirs. They do not have the authority to enforce no-go zones in land that is not theirs nor do they have the authority to shoot fishers in their own waters.

Let's see what also could have been said:

"Yeah, someone needs to teach Hamas what it's like to actually relinquish control of what's not theirs."

Like yes, quit claiming all of Israel as yours and quit bombing people who are not at war with you.

They do not have the authority to enforce no-go zones in land that is not theirs nor do they have the authority to shoot fishers in their own waters.

Umm...every country has the right to control its borders and protect its people. If Hamas could be trusted, none of this would happen. But they can't, and everyone knows it.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Imaam ash-Shafi'i said, "There is a verse in the Qur'aan that is an arrow to the heart of the oppressor." It was said to him, "And what is it?" He said, "The saying of Allaah, the Most High: "And your Lord is never forgetful."" (Surah al Maryam 19:64)

That eases my heart after seeing videos like the above and this one:

Is this the high quality of life you refer to, Ken777, of those who live near settlements?

“It is really scary walking to school. We never know when the settlers will attack us and beat us,” said Rima Ali, 10, from the village of Tuba in the southern West Bank, about two hours drive south of Jerusalem."

"Settler attacks — including arson attacks on agricultural fields, chopping down olive trees, poisoning water wells, killing livestock and assaulting Palestinian villagers living near settlements — have become a way of life for Palestinians all over the West Bank as the Israeli authorities continue to turn a blind eye."

http://electronicintifada.net/content/palestinian-schoolchildren-face-daily-settler-attacks/8553

 

[SolomonVII]

Palestinians have had many opportunities to make things right. There are plenty of people in the world more deserving of our tears and our support than Palestinians.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Palestinians have had many opportunities to make things right. There are plenty of people in the world more deserving of our tears and our support than Palestinians.

Why is the onus of making things right on the victims? "Hey, you had your land stolen, your people exiled, your homes and livelihoods demolished, your families killed, and you're forced to live in basically a closet separated by settlements and checkpoints for the most part, but you're responsible to rectify all of this and make things right...not your oppressors."

The first Israeli prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, said,

"...politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves....The land, the villages, the mountains, the roads are in their hands. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country, while we are still outside."

Moshe Dayan, an Israeli military leader and politician, said,

"What cause have we to complain about their fierce hatred to us? For eight years now, they sit in their refugee camps in Gaza, and before their eyes we turn into our homestead the land and villages in which they and their forefathers have lived."

At least they, while evil, were not so blinded that they could not see some of reality unlike many of Israel's supporters today.

 

[SolomonVII]

If you really want to care about someone, care about the Christians in the ME.
Palestinians are a lost cause to care about.

 

[ContraMundum]

Again "LoveBeingaMuslimah" bids us to ignore the testimony of all people who live there, and surrender our independent critical thought to internet based rogue Islamist propaganda "news" sites like the nausea inducing "Electronic Intifada". Seriously?

She fails to acknowledge that we have on record, over and over again, words from Islamists and Jihadists that there will never be peace with Israel. Even now they prepare. No matter what happens, they want to kill, fight and slaughter the Jews. No matter what. Most people want to live in peace, have a life, get married etc (and they can!) but these fanatics, citing their own religious sources, want to drag the whole planet into hell and chaos. The "religion of peace". I don't see much peace from them.

To even support these creeps, who bring nothing but pain on the people of Gaza and the Middle East, is demented. Arab Muslims agree with this.