More than 100.000 germans demonstrate against trade agreement with USA

[PatrickT]

More than 100.000 germans demonstrate against the trade agreement with the USA in Berlin today.

The fear is that our markets are flooded with american trash products, GMO garbage and chlorine meat. American standards are way under german standards.

The fact that anonymous courts allow corporations to sue nations is also a main reason as well as general mistrust of any agreement with the USA.

The fact that USA is basicly a hostile power against germany and in no way an ally makes things worse. How two nations should be able to negotiate a fair agreement while one does spy evrything it can is a mystery.

http://www.heute.de/grossdemonstration-gegen-ttip-und-ceta-in-berlin-40483100.html

The american side tries to change opinion in germany with special offers. For example to drop customs in 97% of cases and allowing german corporations to compete for state contracts inside the USA.

Both arguments are null and void because they change nothing.

 

[Douger]

Wow! And I thought that I didn't like chlorinated chicken. These guys make me look like a n00b

 

[brinny]

More than 100.000 germans demonstrate against trade agreement with USA

i don't blame them.

 

[PatrickT]

 

[brinny]

They're right.

 

[PatrickT]

German law is made in germany and american trash products have no place here. We don´t want that our food market is destroyed with the american trash tehy feed themself. That GMO garbage as well as chemicals that are toxic.

Europe suffers since 60 years under US tyranny and as you can see on the entire globe, USA is going down. TTIP and other plans are basicly a last try from the USA to keep their chains intact. But they fail.

Evry tyranny ends somewhere in history and Europe just is at the beginning to get rid of USA. The mass demonstrations against agreements with the USA is one thing. That US corporations got banned to save data from european citizens is another step.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

There are legitimate economics factors that should be considered with any free trade agreement...however, the stink that most of them are making are in regards to GMO. They bought the hype about GMO apparently lol. Next thing I'm expecting to hear is that they're protesting it because our food has "too much gluten". For their sake, it had better never end up being a case where their food industry was regulated in the same way that their "clean diesel" industry was

In regards to GMO, I'll let Neil answer:

 

[Oafman]

TTIP is an affront to democracy. These people are absolutely right to protest against it. Though I'm not sure if it can be stopped.

But the anti GMO stuff is idiotic.

 

[PatrickT]

There are legitimate economics factors that should be considered with any free trade agreement...however, the stink that most of them are making are in regards to GMO. They bought the hype about GMO apparently lol. Next thing I'm expecting to hear is that they're protesting it because our food has "too much gluten". For their sake, it had better never end up being a case where their food industry was regulated in the same way that their "clean diesel" industry was

In regards to GMO, I'll let Neil answer:

we dont want your GMO garbage in our country. We pushed your monsanto dirt out of europe and dint even allow meat here that was fed with that trash. We have quality here. And we dont want end up like your people. With highest cancer rates in the world.

P.s. even with defeat device german diesel cars are cleaner than anything your garbage corporations produce.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

we dont want your GMO garbage in our country. We pushed your monsanto dirt out of europe and dint even allow meat here that was fed with that trash. We have quality here. And we dont want end up like your people. With highest cancer rates in the world.

P.s. even with defeat device german diesel cars are cleaner than anything your garbage corporations produce.

Actually, you're wrong on a couple of things here.

Cancer rates top 5:
1 Denmark 338.1
2 France (metropolitan) 324.6
3 Australia 323.0
4 Belgium 321.1
5 Norway 318.3
On to the next...

As far as car thing goes...
http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/jetta/2015/diesel/features-specs/
VW Diesel Jetta
MPG: 31 city - 150hp

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/fusion-hybrid/2015/sedan/features-specs/
Ford Fusion
MPG: 44 city - 188hp

(however, Japanese hybrids have everyone beat in that department at the moment)
On to the next...

Lastly,
You haven't explained exactly what it is about GMO that you have concerns about. You're throwing out buzz words like "garbage" and "trash" and saying that we don't have "quality" like you guys do....explain to me, in scientific terms, why I should trust you over Neil DeGrasse Tyson or Bill Nye?

Perhaps you should take a look at this article from Popular Science...
http://www.popsci.com/article/science/core-truths-10-common-gmo-claims-debunked


Thus far in your posts on this matter, you've demonstrated a lot of rage and anti-American sentiment...but not a lot of substance to support your assertions.

 

[PatrickT]

Actually, you're wrong on a couple of things here.

Cancer rates top 5:
1 Denmark 338.1
2 France (metropolitan) 324.6
3 Australia 323.0
4 Belgium 321.1
5 Norway 318.3
On to the next...

As far as car thing goes...
http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/jetta/2015/diesel/features-specs/
VW Diesel Jetta
MPG: 31 city - 150hp

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/fusion-hybrid/2015/sedan/features-specs/
Ford Fusion
MPG: 44 city - 188hp

(however, Japanese hybrids have everyone beat in that department at the moment)
On to the next...

Lastly,
You haven't explained exactly what it is about GMO that you have concerns about. You're throwing out buzz words like "garbage" and "trash" and saying that we don't have "quality" like you guys do....explain to me, in scientific terms, why I should trust you over Neil DeGrasse Tyson or Bill Nye?

Perhaps you should take a look at this article from Popular Science...
http://www.popsci.com/article/science/core-truths-10-common-gmo-claims-debunked


Thus far in your posts on this matter, you've demonstrated a lot of rage and anti-American sentiment...but not a lot of substance to support your assertions.

We don't want it. What about this do you not understand? We plain and simply dont want it. We see what it causes, how it spreads into farmers lands who dont want it and how their business is destroyed. How natural seeds go extinct, small business destroyed and farmers get crushed by american corporations. The effects of this in india and argentina are dramatic.

I dont want eat american made garbage. And the overwhelming majority of my people agree. yluckily our people fight for their rights. Evry sungle GMO test field in germany got destroyed from people. Politicians were forced to outlaw it. Monsanto was pushed out of business here before it could start. Same in all of europe.

It doesen't matterfor me what your corporate paid propagandists like this black guy say. I dont even watch it.

We decide about what we want and what not. That may sound disturbing for you, who believes that entire world should be american slaves. But we are free people with a free will and we dont bow down to your american greed. I would rather starve to death before eating anything produced from your people.

 

[PatrickT]

Speaking of poison...

It seems you guys haven't always had the best luck with your "organic" approach to farming...

O104:H4 outbreak.
THE bean sprouts contaminated with a particularly nasty strain of Escherichia coli, a bug that normally lives quietly in the gut of humans and other animals, have now sickened over 3,250 people in Germany and caused 37 deaths. Since the outbreak began in May, a quarter of those infected have developed haemolytic uraemic syndrome (HUS)—a potentially fatal complication that affects the blood, kidneys and nervous system.

The genetic sequence of the bacterium in question (a wholly new version of a strain of E.coli called O104:H4) has been found by scientists in Germany and China to contain at least eight genes that make it resistant to the majority of antibiotics. Many of the patients with HUS will need kidney transplants or require dialysis for the rest of their lives.

The German health authorities, without results of ongoing tests, incorrectly linked the O104 serotype to cucumbers imported from Spain. Spain consequently expressed anger about having its produce linked with the deadly E. coli outbreak, which cost Spanish exporters US$200 million per week.

The source of the tainted bean sprouts was traced to an organic farm in northern Germany.

Of course, there's this little bit of info too
In August 2015 Germany announced to ban genetically modified crops.

So your nation has taken the position of being GMO free for all of 2 months and you're talking about it like this deal is breaking a "rich longstanding tradition of high food standards".

Another question, if you guys are so high & mighty in terms of the health aspects, why does your nation have a higher rate of cigarette & alcohol consumption than we do?...or is it okay because the tobacco in your cigarettes isn't genetically modified?

GMO was allowed for test fields, which were all destroyed by locals. GMO never was allowed in the market. In August even test fields were banned. Germany was always GMO free in that aspect.

 

[Oafman]

US hedge fund threatens Peru with law suit over debt

"Purchasing defaulted bonds on the cheap to make a profit in a settlement is a common hedge fund tactic.

The South American country defaulted on the $5.1bn (£3.33bn) in bonds in the 1980s.

Gramercy (the hedge fund) has threatened to bring a claim against Peru under a tribunal system established in a US-Peruvian trade deal."

This is an example I saw today of how these trade deals can give powers to companies as if they are nation states. TTIP gives corporations the right to sue elected governments for decisions they take (on behalf of the electorate) which negatively impact the company's bottom line. These deals transfer rights and power from the many to the few - they are grossly undemocratic.

Yet here you are Patrick, moaning about GMO. You've completely missed the point of how this deal really does threaten you. This deal is scary, but not because of crops with slightly improved resistance to frost, or the amount of chlorine in chicken!

 

[PatrickT]

US hedge fund threatens Peru with law suit over debt

"Purchasing defaulted bonds on the cheap to make a profit in a settlement is a common hedge fund tactic.

The South American country defaulted on the $5.1bn (£3.33bn) in bonds in the 1980s.

Gramercy (the hedge fund) has threatened to bring a claim against Peru under a tribunal system established in a US-Peruvian trade deal."

This is an example I saw today of how these trade deals can give powers to companies as if they are nation states. TTIP gives corporations the right to sue elected governments for decisions they take (on behalf of the electorate) which negatively impact the company's bottom line. These deals transfer rights and power from the many to the few - they are grossly undemocratic.

Yet here you are Patrick, moaning about GMO. You've completely missed the point of how this deal really does threaten you. This deal is scary, but not because of crops with slightly improved resistance to frost, or the amount of chlorine in chicken!

You don´t understand what i mean and being against GMO is exactly the same point.

American criminal corporations want push GMO evrywhere. Germany banned it. This pathetic deal would allow those corporations to sue germany for that and gain billions in exchange, destroying democracy and freedom.

 

[Oafman]

You don´t understand what i mean and being against GMO is exactly the same point.

American criminal corporations want push GMO evrywhere. Germany banned it. This pathetic deal would allow those corporations to sue germany for that and gain billions in exchange, destroying democracy and freedom.

OK, so stop going on about GMOs and talk about the investor-state dispute settlement. GMOs are hardly the biggest threat which that mechanism presents. I mean, they're not a threat at all.

 

[PatrickT]

OK, so stop going on about GMOs and talk about the investor-state dispute settlement. GMOs are hardly the biggest threat which that mechanism presents. I mean, they're not a threat at all.

They are a threat simply because germans don´t accept that stuff and american corporations could sue us for that and demand money.

 

[Oafman]

They are a threat simply because germans don´t accept that stuff and american corporations could sue us for that and demand money.

I agree. Whatever my thoughts on GMOs, the German people should decide if they are grown or supplied in Germany.

 

[Douger]

In regards to GMO, I'll let Neil answer:

That guy's either a simpleton who doesn't understand how the development of GMOs is different from traditional human selection, or he's a paid liar.
Seeing as his "argument" is the same one that seems to be mimicked all throughout the pop science scene, I'm guessing he's a paid liar.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

That guy's either a simpleton who doesn't understand how the development of GMOs is different from traditional human selection, or he's a paid liar.
Seeing as his "argument" is the same one that seems to be mimicked all throughout the pop science scene, I'm guessing he's a paid liar.

isn't that guy a astrophysicist or something? I don't know why he has become the spokesman on all areas of science, especially on things that is out of his field of expertise.

 

[PatrickT]

isn't that guy a astrophysicist or something? I don't know why he has become the spokesman on all areas of science, especially on things that is out of his field of expertise.

I dont know who he is. Didn´t watch the movie. I guess some paid propagandist.