Modernization of The Orthodox Church

Would modernization of The Orthodox Church work?

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  • No

  • I'm against it

  • I'm for it

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George95

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I'm noticing that some of the kids my age seem to not be interested in The Orthodox Faith, simply because it's all tradition. Whereas if we look at The Western Protestant Churches, it's a sermon and music and stuff.


What do you guys think about this issue? I personally think The Divine Liturgy and all our services are beautiful, I would not support modernization.
 

InnerPhyre

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Short answer: No.


Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
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Dewi Sant

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I agree with above.

"Modernization" isn't really explained.


All there needs to be is living faith and explanation for things when something is not understood.

I think you're proposing a more 'western' aesthetic?
As for example, western harmonies of Orthodox tones, maybe with light accompaniment from a small organ.
Westernised images.
etc.

There is the 'Western Rite' which is fully Orthodox but also makes use of western liturgical forms and aesthetic.

It is against the spirit of Orthodoxy, but something I like to imagine is a "Western Use".
Namely, the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom but making use of native music, vestments, and church furniture.
If anything, it saves money on the parish if they inherit a gothic church and stocked sacristry.


The important thing is that the faith is alive and never becomes a museum religion.

Tradition is the living faith of the dead; Traditionalism is the dead faith of the living. ~Jaroslav Pelikan


A position which I find quite annoying however is the opinion that "because it is old, it is true." *
Like the joke about "how many Orthodox does it take to change a light bulb?"
To which the answer is "none! How dare you change that light bulb, it was donated by my great-grandfather in 1926"

The Church must speak to her people, but always express the eternal faith.
Language, not substance.

*I would say that time is generally speaking, a good filter for nonsense :p
 
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Joseph Hazen

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Those Western protestant churches are hemorrhaging members as well. Perhaps the situation is different in Greece (which really wouldn't surprise me), but I know loads of people my age, which isn't that far from your own, who are very devout Orthodox here in America.
 
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Dorothea

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I'm noticing that some of the kids my age seem to not be interested in The Orthodox Faith, simply because it's all tradition. Whereas if we look at The Western Protestant Churches, it's a sermon and music and stuff.


What do you guys think about this issue? I personally think The Divine Liturgy and all our services are beautiful, I would not support modernization.

Simple answer: It's not about them (or us) and what we want.
 
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Dewi Sant

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Modernization meaning they want the church to appeal to kids my age. Youth Groups, Having a sermon in The Liturgy, and not the same thing every Sunday.

Youth Groups in the week, sure.
Sermon after the Liturgy.
Feasts ensure it isn't the same thing every Sunday. ;)


As an Anglican where every Sunday has to be different, I can tell you that it can feel a real chore having to invent new intercessions every week.:sorry:
 
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George95

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Youth Groups in the week, sure.
Sermon after the Liturgy.
Feasts ensure it isn't the same thing every Sunday. ;)


As an Anglican where every Sunday has to be different, I can tell you that it can feel a real chore having to invent new intercessions every week.:sorry:


Our priest sometimes does like a 5 minute sermon before Holy Communion depending on the Sunday.
 
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Dewi Sant

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That is good.

The sermon shouldn't be the focus of worship and certainly shouldn't be the reason people come.
But if it is for spiritual edification, or explanation of the feast, it can be a very good thing.
Kept short.

A priest I knew said "if it can't be said in five minutes, it ain't worth saying at all."
 
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Cappadocious

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Modernization meaning they want the church to appeal to kids my age. Youth Groups, Having a sermon in The Liturgy, and not the same thing every Sunday.
George,

Having a sermon in the liturgy is not modernization. That's how it's supposed to be done.

As for the rest, that's American Evangelical-ization. Big problem.
 
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George95

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George,

Having a sermon in the liturgy is not modernization. That's how it's supposed to be done.

As for the rest, that's American Evangelical-ization. Big problem.

I love the Liturgy, but a family member of mine does not like how everything is nearly the same every Sunday. She goes to her friend's churches and Youth Groups and all sometimes.
 
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InnerPhyre

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I love the Liturgy, but a family member of mine does not like how everything is nearly the same every Sunday. She goes to her friend's churches and Youth Groups and all sometimes.

It is unfortunate that people leave for those reasons, but we don't celebrate the liturgy for entertainment, but to worship God. This is the way that it has been revealed to us that we ought to worship Him and we simply don't have the authority to do away with it because something else might be more entertaining.
 
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Mary of Bethany

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We have a 15-or-so-minute sermon after the Gospel each Sunday.

We have a youth group meeting in the evening each week.

We have a bible study after Vespers.

I don't see those things as "modernization", just taking care of the needs of the parish.

Mary
 
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88Devin07

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Church should definitely have Youth Groups, but that doesn't mean they get a separate service or get to leave in the middle. Even the little ones need to stay for the entire Liturgy.

As for Liturgy, if you look at the past 2,000 years, while the Liturgy has changed, it hasn't been all that much, at least for that length of time. You aren't going to get a modernization.

In fact, I think our Liturgies need to be done fully, not cut short in any way or breezed through. In addition, we shouldn't just leave quickly after its over, if possible, a Church should have coffee hour, then Sunday School/Youth Group time.

As for "Youth Group" ideas, you have the OCF for college age students, and those in college towns should always have a chapter if there are enough students. For the Antiochians you have Teen Soyo for the teenagers. Then you also have programs in some Greek Churches for the youngest ones such as an Acolytes group for boys, or a Handmaidens/Myrrh-bearers/Altar Guild group for little girls.

Families should be encouraged to spend more time at their churches as able. If its a big enough church, a lunch after the service should be provided every Sunday as a potluck. For the adults, it could be good to have a catechism class, a Sunday School class for kids. On top of that, if its big enough, there should be individual groups such as Teen Soyo, OCF, Acolytes, Myrrh-bearers and other such groups. For adults you could have a men's night for men and philoptochos/women's night for women.

As for worship, you don't really touch the worship service and its structure.

Kids aren't leaving our church because it's too "traditional" they are leaving because their parents aren't instilling in them need to go every Sunday and dedicate your whole life to Christ, even when out of Church. There are so many parents out there who could bring their kids every Sunday, but cave in to themselves or to their kids if they don't feel like going, and what does that say to the kids?

Also, the other big problem is ethnno-centrism. The idea that you're Orthodox because you're _______ ethnicity doesn't lead kids to truly understand and appreciate Orthodoxy, and does, in fact, lead to lower attendance rates as studies have shown. Ethnic identity is important, but you aren't Orthodox because you're ______ ethnicity. You're Orthodox first and that ethnicity second, unfortunately so many families don't get this and see attending Liturgy as an ethnic ritual like dancing, celebrating national holidays and such.
 
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Adaephon

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Also, the other big problem is ethnno-centrism. The idea that you're Orthodox because you're _______ ethnicity doesn't lead kids to truly understand and appreciate Orthodoxy, and does, in fact, lead to lower attendance rates as studies have shown. Ethnic identity is important, but you aren't Orthodox because you're ______ ethnicity. You're Orthodox first and that ethnicity second, unfortunately so many families don't get this and see attending Liturgy as an ethnic ritual like dancing, celebrating national holidays and such.

This times a million. I never go to the Greek and Russian cultural parish events, I'm just not interested in either at all, really. I think it's a big problem when parishes, in the USA for me, focus more on being all about "Let's be Greek/Russian/Serbian/Etc. and pretend we're an outpost of the motherland and stare awkwardly at those weirdos who don't belong here" instead of being about, well, catholic church.
 
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