Modern day John Wimber, Smith Wigglesworth, John G Lake?

[ByTheSpirit]

Ok so I know there are many more great faith leaders out there than the 3 I listed in my title, but those were the first 3 I could think of and I think I get my point across by listing them.

Are there any faith leaders out there such as John Wimber, Smith Wigglesworth, John G. Lake, Derek Prince that have active ministries and CAN BE TRUSTED?

Now I know there are men out there with ministries such as Benny Hinn, Ron Parsley, Todd Bentley, etc, but I will not let myself get caught up in something like that.

Just curious as I don't hear to much positives about men of faith with ministries as the first group that I listed, and those 4 are obviously at home with the Lord now. Would love to go to a service of a modern day faith leader if there are any worth going too.

 

[Yitzchak]

Unfortunately , I don't know of any. I could list some grade B versions as you have done yourself. But I cannot think of a single one that I would place on the A list.

 

[GreatistheLord]

Im interested in what disqualifies these men? It is only Gods grace that keeps us, and noone is immune from falling.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Im interested in what disqualifies these men? It is only Gods grace that keeps us, and noone is immune from falling.

I didn't say they were disqualified, I just said I would not personally attend one of their meetings as they are all associated with controversy and false teachings of some sort or fashion. That's just my choice in the matter, I won't attend some ministry just for the sake of attending. There must be a definite evidence of the Holy Spirit's anointing, not a man made farce that is trying to win followers and a larger paycheck.

 

[Yitzchak]

Im interested in what disqualifies these men? It is only Gods grace that keeps us, and noone is immune from falling.

I wouldn't say they are disqualified. But I would classify them as grade B and not my first choice.

Just for one example of ways that I would measure that , I see a lot of hype surrounding the mentioned ministries. Now I don't react the way some do and say that all the hype disqualifies a ministry. But it does diminish it a notch in my eyes. It is one thing when a lot of attention comes because of the miracles , another when there are all the lights and smoke and it comes off like an infomercial. There is a whole lot of marketing and working the crowd skills and it seems to me that is to make up for the fact that they get a trickle of healings and not an outpouring of healing. They make a really big deal out of each one to keep the momentum going.

Anyway , God knows why this is the case. I am not against those ministries. But I find it is hit and miss with them. Sometimes it is difficult to determine if it is the faith of the 20,000 people worshiping and praying and seeking God at their meetings that creates an atmosphere where some healing occur and is in spite of these men or if it is their gift of healing at work. I suppose that it is probably some of both.

When I think of the grade A healing minsitries , I am thinking of the wet wood anointing. As in Elijah pouring water all over the wood and then asking God to send fire and light the wood. Elijah actually made it more difficult to emphasize the miracle. As opposed to the grade B ministries where all the conditions need to be just right and then some still walk away not healed.

I don't dispute that the grade B ministires sometimes get results. But so do small local churches. My home church has had several healings in the last twelve months. Usually in response to the entire church praying and several fasting. But in our church there is no hype or bragging about it. It is just a practical matter. People get sick and so they are prayed for and anointed with oil by the elders and then the prayer warriors usually fast and pray and we get a percentage of healings. I don't have exact stats but I would suppose we get around a 10% rate of people being healed where it is obviously a supernatural healing. In my experience , this is the case in a lot of churches. Many churches have a percentage of healings over the years.

The big healing ministries hype up a big crowd and try to get the conditions just right and then get a percentage of healings. Out of a crowd of 20,000 , where they specifically bring a lot of sick people who have people who have been fasting and praying for their healing already and everybody puts their faith together , compared to the numbers of people seeking healing, it is not a very good percentage to get 50 healings. But those 50 healings are placed on video and run over and over again as proof that their ministry is a success.

Like I said , it is better than nothing. But sometimes I find myself doing a cost / benefits analysis with these ministries.

Just my opinion.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Just to highlight my post about those mentioned ministries I'd like to avoid. I saw on the news a week or two ago something that absolutely broke my heart. A woman and her young daughter who suffers from a paralyzing illness went to a Benny Hinn service to try and get her healed. They were told by Hinn's security that she could not go and be prayed for and were escorted out of the building by them, all the while Hinn was on stage doing his normal thing. The little girl was in tears and so was I as I watched this and the remarkable thing is they (the mother and daughter) both confessed their faith in Christ still and said they would continue to pray on their own for her healing. Absolutely devestating to see that sort of thing in my book. I wish and pray to God that He would anoint me with the power to heal many as did the Lord so that those in that little girl's condition could be healed and set free, not rejected by someone trying to make a name for themselves.

 

[jamadan]

Ok so I know there are many more great faith leaders out there than the 3 I listed in my title, but those were the first 3 I could think of and I think I get my point across by listing them.

Are there any faith leaders out there such as John Wimber, Smith Wigglesworth, John G. Lake, Derek Prince that have active ministries and CAN BE TRUSTED?

Now I know there are men out there with ministries such as Benny Hinn, Ron Parsley, Todd Bentley, etc, but I will not let myself get caught up in something like that.

Just curious as I don't hear to much positives about men of faith with ministries as the first group that I listed, and those 4 are obviously at home with the Lord now. Would love to go to a service of a modern day faith leader if there are any worth going too.

Tough question. I miss Derek Prince for sure. Some of the ones I used to respect I no longer do - Rick Joyner, Paul Cain, John Arnott.

I would think Heidi Baker might be in that class in terms of the impact of her ministry in Africa, but she's doesn't minister that way in conferences.

How about Steve Hill and John Kilpatrick? I have one of Steve's sermons still burned in my spirit from Penn State - he was the epitomy of the thundering prophet calling for repentance.

I respect Joyce Meyer as a teacher, though she's a little too WOF for me, but find so much of what she teaches solid meat.

I don't think he's out there much anymore, but used to love Mario Murillo. Had the closest thing to the Book of Acts experience under his ministry literally witnessed hundreds of people healed over the course of a week - real verifiable healings like broken limbs, lupus, broken back, diabetes etc on people I knew.

And I'm going to put a plug in for a personal favorite, Rodney Howard-Browne. He was the only revival preacher I knew who went to Lakeland and confronted Todd with Godly correction. He was spurned, but he did it right and was the only charismatic leader other than RT Kendall I saw who properly discerned that mess before the problems became public.

Is Frances MacNutt still worth visiting in his healing center in Florida? Probably. A legend of the healing and faith community with high-level of integrity and longevity.

 

[Yitzchak]

Tough question. I miss Derek Prince for sure. Some of the ones I used to respect I no longer do - Rick Joyner, Paul Cain, John Arnott.

I would think Heidi Baker might be in that class in terms of the impact of her ministry in Africa, but she's doesn't minister that way in conferences.

How about Steve Hill and John Kilpatrick? I have one of Steve's sermons still burned in my spirit from Penn State - he was the epitomy of the thundering prophet calling for repentance.

I respect Joyce Meyer as a teacher, though she's a little too WOF for me, but find so much of what she teaches solid meat.

I don't think he's out there much anymore, but used to love Mario Murillo. Had the closest thing to the Book of Acts experience under his ministry literally witnessed hundreds of people healed over the course of a week - real verifiable healings like broken limbs, lupus, broken back, diabetes etc on people I knew.

And I'm going to put a plug in for a personal favorite, Rodney Howard-Browne. He was the only revival preacher I knew who went to Lakeland and confronted Todd with Godly correction. He was spurned, but he did it right and was the only charismatic leader other than RT Kendall I saw who properly discerned that mess before the problems became public.

Is Frances MacNutt still worth visiting in his healing center in Florida? Probably. A legend of the healing and faith community with high-level of integrity and longevity.

I saw Steve Hill when he was at the Byrce Jordan Centre at Penn State. I think it must have been the late 90's. He seems to have lost a step since he had his battle with sickness. He looked very tired the last time I saw him minister.

John Kilpatrick is a good pastor but his emphasis is not on a healing ministry.

 

[apocalypto]

'I follow Apollos'

 

[mrhappy3]

All I know is.............nothing lasts forever....best to get your own.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I hear ya, God willing!

 

[mrhappy3]

Listen, God is always willing.......a surrendered heart will NEVER lack.....just be content with what he dishes out mate x and dont compare yourself to anybody.

 

[jamadan]

I saw Steve Hill when he was at the Byrce Jordan Centre at Penn State. I think it must have been the late 90's. He seems to have lost a step since he had his battle with sickness. He looked very tired the last time I saw him minister.

John Kilpatrick is a good pastor but his emphasis is not on a healing ministry.

1998 maybe? With the Awake America tour? If so, I was there and part of the prayer ministry team. Packed arena with about 4,000 responding to the altar call . . . took us to 2 am most nights to finish praying for everyone. I'll never forget it for many spiritual reasons, but also because it was the week parents dropped their kids off the college and there were no hotels to be found, so I had to drive 20 minutes to a nearby town and stayed in the only available bed for $25 a night - had a 1920's era metal grate elevator and metal room furniture from that same era.

 

[jamadan]

I once had dinner with Mario Murillo after watching the Lord use him to heal close to 100 people of major issues via word of knowledge. I used to think that was hokey ala 700 Club, but this guy was scary spot on with people I knew. At dinner, I asked him why no one seems to be able to operate at this level where we see undeniable healings like what had happened through him that night. He said he didn't know anyone willing to pay the price in prayer, personal holiness, and dying to self. He said it was really hard to maintain that kind of self-denial and surrender to the Lord in a culture like the U.S. where we don't often have to rely on God until the medical community can't fix it or we lost our jobs and can't feed our families. There's something born in desperation and need that drive people closer to God and burnishes faith.

 

[JimB]

Ok so I know there are many more great faith leaders out there than the 3 I listed in my title, but those were the first 3 I could think of and I think I get my point across by listing them.

Are there any faith leaders out there such as John Wimber, Smith Wigglesworth, John G. Lake, Derek Prince that have active ministries and CAN BE TRUSTED?

Now I know there are men out there with ministries such as Benny Hinn, Ron Parsley, Todd Bentley, etc, but I will not let myself get caught up in something like that.

Just curious as I don't hear to much positives about men of faith with ministries as the first group that I listed, and those 4 are obviously at home with the Lord now. Would love to go to a service of a modern day faith leader if there are any worth going too.

I don't think John Wimber would have considered himself a “faith leader.” He taught that spiritual empowerment was not limited to just a few celebrity faith-heroes but that in the kingdom “everyone gets to play.” His desire was that the Body be empowered, not just a few who would make a show of their gifts. We are called to be participants in the great game of life, not just bench warmers, much less spectators. When the disciples asked Jesus to “increase” their faith, the Lord did not point to some superhero but simply told them to use what faith they had and it would accomplish amazing things (Luke 17.5-6). I would offer the same advice. Men disappoint us; Jesus never does.

 

[Snakebite]

I would be very wary of anyone who seeks to have these things for themselves. Those who seek their own glory, especially of the B.Hinn , creflo ilk.
Honestly, look to Jesus and steep yourself in His word.
If you want heroes of faith look at Hebrews 11. The Lord has provided numerous examples.
No lear Jets and Armani suits I am afraid, just death to self and serving others.
Are we kings kids, children of the most high? yes, adopted sons? yes, heirs to the promise? yes , but we must walk as he walked, pick up our cross daily and follow. Not cruise past in a £200 k bently.
or Have another whip round at the end of a crusade for new earrings or facelift
NO Servant is above his master.
WE have to live a crucified life.

As our brother said
" Men disappoint us; Jesus never does. "

Who's servant do you want to be?

 

[MikeBigg]

Are there any faith leaders out there such as John Wimber, Smith Wigglesworth, John G. Lake, Derek Prince that have active ministries and CAN BE TRUSTED?

Here are some that I know of:

1) Ian Andrews. He is a British guy has been in the healing Ministry for over 40 years is credited with seeing over 100,000 people healed. He works mainly off of words of knowledge in a meeting. He is a quietly spoken, humble man. I have been to many of his meetings and know people who got healed in his meetings. You can find out more at Citadel Ministries website. He runs an online healing course at iequippers.org, but this seems to have stalled at the moment.

2) Randy Clark. Controversial because of his involvement in Toronto, but a humble gentle man who is seeing remarkable miracles around the world. I have been to several meetings and am going to one of his schools next week.

3) Bill Johnson. From Redding, CA. He writes and speaks a lot on healing and
his church has a lot of healing going on, from what I read and hear. I heard that they have a 70% success rate of seeing cancers healed. But then, they have pursued healing for cancer. I remember seeing Johnson speak of it in a meeting in the UK 6 or 7 years ago. He is at the same school as Randy next week.

4) Katherine Ruonala. I don't know if she's on the same scale as the others, but I wanted to include her: a) because she is a woman b) I recently met her and was impacted during a meeting. She has a very accurate prophetic gift, based on what I heard her prophesy over people I know. Her website: Newday Minstries | Katherine Ruonala

Katherine and her church see significant miracles out on the streets including blind eyes being opened.

Honourable mentions go to: Mark Marx (UK Healing on the Streets initiative); J.John (a church of England evangelist who sees healings and miracles); Heidi Baker (many miracles in Mozambique).

I hope this helps a little.

Mike

 

[mrhappy3]

Here are some that I know of:

1) Ian Andrews. He is a British guy has been in the healing Ministry for over 40 years is credited with seeing over 100,000 people healed. He works mainly off of words of knowledge in a meeting. He is a quietly spoken, humble man. I have been to many of his meetings and know people who got healed in his meetings. You can find out more at Citadel Ministries website. He runs an online healing course at iequippers.org, but this seems to have stalled at the moment.

2) Randy Clark. Controversial because of his involvement in Toronto, but a humble gentle man who is seeing remarkable miracles around the world. I have been to several meetings and am going to one of his schools next week.

3) Bill Johnson. From Redding, CA. He writes and speaks a lot on healing and
his church has a lot of healing going on, from what I read and hear. I heard that they have a 70% success rate of seeing cancers healed. But then, they have pursued healing for cancer. I remember seeing Johnson speak of it in a meeting in the UK 6 or 7 years ago. He is at the same school as Randy next week.

4) Katherine Ruonala. I don't know if she's on the same scale as the others, but I wanted to include her: a) because she is a woman b) I recently met her and was impacted during a meeting. She has a very accurate prophetic gift, based on what I heard her prophesy over people I know. Her website: Newday Minstries | Katherine Ruonala

Katherine and her church see significant miracles out on the streets including blind eyes being opened.

Honourable mentions go to: Mark Marx (UK Healing on the Streets initiative); J.John (a church of England evangelist who sees healings and miracles); Heidi Baker (many miracles in Mozambique).

I hope this helps a little.

Mike

Yes Mike, very good, where is the meeting next week - in the UK ????

Have spoken to J John a few times - a character !...Never heard of Andrews though....I'll check him out. I like Randy's book, THERE IS MORE...very well written and Johnson seems in the zone as well. Do send meeting details IF in UK. Cheers mate x

 

[Yitzchak]

1998 maybe? With the Awake America tour? If so, I was there and part of the prayer ministry team. Packed arena with about 4,000 responding to the altar call . . . took us to 2 am most nights to finish praying for everyone. I'll never forget it for many spiritual reasons, but also because it was the week parents dropped their kids off the college and there were no hotels to be found, so I had to drive 20 minutes to a nearby town and stayed in the only available bed for $25 a night - had a 1920's era metal grate elevator and metal room furniture from that same era.

That is the one. I helped to count the offering that night. There were dozens of us counting for quite a while. That is one thing that I like about Canada , no one dollar bills.

If I had known you then I would have let you stay with us. I have a lot of good memories from Penn State University. There were a lot of 2 a.m. Sunday night services at the State College Assembly of God church for many months following those meetings. It was a good season of revival.

We also had several other joint services in that time period. Bill Bright came in that same time period.

Also , Philipsburg is where David Wilkerson got his start as a pastor. anyway , lots of good memories. Steve Hill did not let us down. Preached his heart out.

 

[mrhappy3]

Yes Mike, very good, where is the meeting next week - in the UK ????

Have spoken to J John a few times - a character !...Never heard of Andrews though....I'll check him out. I like Randy's book, THERE IS MORE...very well written and Johnson seems in the zone as well. Do send meeting details IF in UK. Cheers mate x

Johnson is in Harrogate (New life Church) - on the 24th Feb.