Messianic Judaism vs. Conservative Christianity

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Gxg (G²)

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I grew up Orthodox. When I severed religious ties with Judaism, I opted for an orthodox form of Christianity (because I see a continuity on many points). This may be a reflection of values I grew up with in regards the respect for tradition and religious continuity and authority, some have suggested. Not just that, I believe that on many points of belief, one must make a clean break too- hence, I reject reincarnation and and chasidus for the most part too.

I think we come to Christ with baggage, and in due course He changes us and our old beliefs die over time as He shows us the truth.

Amen.

The rabbi at my synagouge/fellowship has discussed this in depth often. For it seems that all come into movements from differing points of trajectory--just as many may be in a Hub at an Airport and yet have differing destinations or points that they came from before interacting.
 
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Jase

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Jase, because some of the views posted in Messianic Judaism forum so closely mirror that of conservative Evangelicals, I've wondered if they are conservative Evangelicals, Hagee-esque groupies, not here because they're Jews, but here to show their loyalty to Jews. For example, one post I've replied to features the most hateful ripping on gentiles for persecuting Jews. I tend to see that kind of extreme hate more from the Hagee-esque than from Jews.

Like you, I myself tend to hold more toward Jewish concepts of the afterlife, etc.
After spending a few days reading your posts, I'm very confused by your position. You've posted numerous Anti-semitic posts on this board in multiple forums continually accusing ALL Jews of murdering Jesus which is why God now basically hates us (did you even go so far as to say that was the reason for the Holocaust? I don't remember).

How can you then claim you follow Jewish beliefs and are opposed to evangelicals? Your problems with Jews seems to indicate otherwise.
 
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LadyNRA

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Yeah, this raises so many questions, and I wish we had groups near me where we could study some of the differences more fully and openly.

I'm an old earther in answer to one of the questions. As for many of the other teachings of evangelical christians, I can accept them because I see G-d as all powerful so he can do anything he wants. Like some have said, it doesn't matter to me if it's real or if it's allegory, I can accept either even if I lean one way or the other. If figure living to serve G-d in the here and now is more important that being excrutiatingly dogmatic about issues like the creation, the flood, the rapture.

I do believe in the biblical view of heaven. It's one of the things that attracted me to Christianity in the first place. I couldn't get much info from the temple and it was rarely talked about and I wanted info. I understand the concept of Satan, demons etc and yet at the same time hope that it isn't like the teachings. It's hard for me to understand why G-d would give us such finite lives and then torment unbelievers for eternity so I sometimes wonder if how it's presented to us is misunderstood.

And here's an admission for ya...I feel that when gentiles took over control of how Christianity developed and rid it of most Jewish influences, they did a huge injustice to so many Jews over the millenia. I don't think that how Christianity is practices is what Yeshua or G-d intended and so while I love the people, I never quite feel like I fit into mainstream Christianity and yet, at the same time, there are ZERO messianic congregations around within an easy drive (the closest is about 90 miles away) so I have no way to worship with those who think more like I do.

If I went to a synagogue I'd be treated like an outcast (although I don't think they can legally kick me out). I've tried to explain I'm not there to preach, I just want to learn but still the suspicion remains...another reason I feel that the early development of the church did a disservice to Jews. I've read academic papers which said that the earliest believers were considered a sect of Judaism.

Now to be fair, Jews have become incredibly narrow-minded and intolerant of Jewish believers (and Christianity as a whole) even though the majority of persecution has ceased. This is evidenced by the fact that if you ask a rabbi or many Jews, they will tell you that their kids and relatives who are heavily into Hinduism, buddism, new age faith, wicca, etc are most definitey still Jewish BUT the Jew who believes in Yeshua but maintains a Jewish identity and practice are no longer even remotely Jewish or worthy of trust. I've met plenty of Jews who dislike having their beliefs mocked and yet those same individuals feel completely free to mock Christians and christian beliefs. Just something to consider the next time you (generic 'you') want to make fun of anyone else's beliefs. It's not constructive and benefits no one. It closes doors, it hinders communication. And it certainly doesn't make you a better person. Just sayin'.
 
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visionary

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...snip...

I do believe in the biblical view of heaven. It's one of the things that attracted me to Christianity in the first place. I couldn't get much info from the temple and it was rarely talked about and I wanted info. I understand the concept of Satan, demons etc and yet at the same time hope that it isn't like the teachings. It's hard for me to understand why G-d would give us such finite lives and then torment unbelievers for eternity so I sometimes wonder if how it's presented to us is misunderstood.
... snip...
.
I am sure we have a thread on this very topic... not to throw this one down a rabbit trail.. http://www.christianforums.com/t1529924/
 
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visionary

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... snip...

If I went to a synagogue I'd be treated like an outcast (although I don't think they can legally kick me out). I've tried to explain I'm not there to preach, I just want to learn but still the suspicion remains...another reason I feel that the early development of the church did a disservice to Jews. I've read academic papers which said that the earliest believers were considered a sect of Judaism.

... ... snip...
You might like this thread then... http://www.christianforums.com/t4145248/
 
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visionary

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....,,,snip...
And here's an admission for ya...I feel that when gentiles took over control of how Christianity developed and rid it of most Jewish influences, they did a huge injustice to so many Jews over the millenia. I don't think that how Christianity is practices is what Yeshua or G-d intended and so while I love the people, I never quite feel like I fit into mainstream Christianity and yet, at the same time, there are ZERO messianic congregations around within an easy drive (the closest is about 90 miles away) so I have no way to worship with those who think more like I do. ... snip...
If we had some idea where you live... we might even know of a congregation or house worship place near you.. :wave:
 
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yedida

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Yeah, this raises so many questions, and I wish we had groups near me where we could study some of the differences more fully and openly.

I'm an old earther in answer to one of the questions. As for many of the other teachings of evangelical christians, I can accept them because I see G-d as all powerful so he can do anything he wants. Like some have said, it doesn't matter to me if it's real or if it's allegory, I can accept either even if I lean one way or the other. If figure living to serve G-d in the here and now is more important that being excrutiatingly dogmatic about issues like the creation, the flood, the rapture.

I do believe in the biblical view of heaven. It's one of the things that attracted me to Christianity in the first place. I couldn't get much info from the temple and it was rarely talked about and I wanted info. I understand the concept of Satan, demons etc and yet at the same time hope that it isn't like the teachings. It's hard for me to understand why G-d would give us such finite lives and then torment unbelievers for eternity so I sometimes wonder if how it's presented to us is misunderstood.

And here's an admission for ya...I feel that when gentiles took over control of how Christianity developed and rid it of most Jewish influences, they did a huge injustice to so many Jews over the millenia. I don't think that how Christianity is practices is what Yeshua or G-d intended and so while I love the people, I never quite feel like I fit into mainstream Christianity and yet, at the same time, there are ZERO messianic congregations around within an easy drive (the closest is about 90 miles away) so I have no way to worship with those who think more like I do.

If I went to a synagogue I'd be treated like an outcast (although I don't think they can legally kick me out). I've tried to explain I'm not there to preach, I just want to learn but still the suspicion remains...another reason I feel that the early development of the church did a disservice to Jews. I've read academic papers which said that the earliest believers were considered a sect of Judaism.

Now to be fair, Jews have become incredibly narrow-minded and intolerant of Jewish believers (and Christianity as a whole) even though the majority of persecution has ceased. This is evidenced by the fact that if you ask a rabbi or many Jews, they will tell you that their kids and relatives who are heavily into Hinduism, buddism, new age faith, wicca, etc are most definitey still Jewish BUT the Jew who believes in Yeshua but maintains a Jewish identity and practice are no longer even remotely Jewish or worthy of trust. I've met plenty of Jews who dislike having their beliefs mocked and yet those same individuals feel completely free to mock Christians and christian beliefs. Just something to consider the next time you (generic 'you') want to make fun of anyone else's beliefs. It's not constructive and benefits no one. It closes doors, it hinders communication. And it certainly doesn't make you a better person. Just sayin'.

We, here in this forum, don't make fun of anyone's beliefs. There are more constructive ways to spend our time together doing.
 
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LadyNRA

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We, here in this forum, don't make fun of anyone's beliefs. There are more constructive ways to spend our time together doing.

That's why I said "generic" you. Not that people on here do this but in general, in the wider group of people I've been in contact with, this has been my experience. Would just love to see everybody (again, the wider population) get along.
 
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LadyNRA

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I am sure we have a thread on this very topic... not to throw this one down a rabbit trail.. http://www.christianforums.com/t1529924/

Actually, I was answering the original post (the very first one) and chasing that rabbit at the same time. ;) My bad. The end result of being extremely ADD (and yes, this is medically documented so I get to make fun of myself because I have to live with it). LOL!
 
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visionary

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Actually, I was answering the original post (the very first one) and chasing that rabbit at the same time. ;) My bad. The end result of being extremely ADD (and yes, this is medically documented so I get to make fun of myself because I have to live with it). LOL!
ADD does have its advantages.. :D I will have to use it too.. :thumbsup: :clap:
 
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Lulav

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Yeah, this raises so many questions, and I wish we had groups near me where we could study some of the differences more fully and openly.

I'm an old earther in answer to one of the questions. As for many of the other teachings of evangelical christians, I can accept them because I see G-d as all powerful so he can do anything he wants. Like some have said, it doesn't matter to me if it's real or if it's allegory, I can accept either even if I lean one way or the other. If figure living to serve G-d in the here and now is more important that being excrutiatingly dogmatic about issues like the creation, the flood, the rapture.

I do believe in the biblical view of heaven. It's one of the things that attracted me to Christianity in the first place. I couldn't get much info from the temple and it was rarely talked about and I wanted info. I understand the concept of Satan, demons etc and yet at the same time hope that it isn't like the teachings. It's hard for me to understand why G-d would give us such finite lives and then torment unbelievers for eternity so I sometimes wonder if how it's presented to us is misunderstood.

And here's an admission for ya...I feel that when gentiles took over control of how Christianity developed and rid it of most Jewish influences, they did a huge injustice to so many Jews over the millenia. I don't think that how Christianity is practices is what Yeshua or G-d intended and so while I love the people, I never quite feel like I fit into mainstream Christianity and yet, at the same time, there are ZERO messianic congregations around within an easy drive (the closest is about 90 miles away) so I have no way to worship with those who think more like I do.

If I went to a synagogue I'd be treated like an outcast (although I don't think they can legally kick me out). I've tried to explain I'm not there to preach, I just want to learn but still the suspicion remains...another reason I feel that the early development of the church did a disservice to Jews. I've read academic papers which said that the earliest believers were considered a sect of Judaism.

Now to be fair, Jews have become incredibly narrow-minded and intolerant of Jewish believers (and Christianity as a whole) even though the majority of persecution has ceased. This is evidenced by the fact that if you ask a rabbi or many Jews, they will tell you that their kids and relatives who are heavily into Hinduism, buddism, new age faith, wicca, etc are most definitey still Jewish BUT the Jew who believes in Yeshua but maintains a Jewish identity and practice are no longer even remotely Jewish or worthy of trust. I've met plenty of Jews who dislike having their beliefs mocked and yet those same individuals feel completely free to mock Christians and christian beliefs. Just something to consider the next time you (generic 'you') want to make fun of anyone else's beliefs. It's not constructive and benefits no one. It closes doors, it hinders communication. And it certainly doesn't make you a better person. Just sayin'.


Hi Lady, nice to see you around here again!
wave.gif


I understand where you're coming from. I think sometimes it's a matter of over protection, just like the talmud laws.

As far as what you said about the gentile version winning out I have been doing much study on this and can recommend some books for you online and off if you'd like.
 
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visionary

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It IS a great excuse except that mine is legit. I do get sidetracked real easy. Such is life. Been that way for as long as I can remember. :)
I can be the undiagnosed one.. as many can attest to here... unfinished thoughts typed down.. jumping here and there when posting.. probably really hard for some to understand what I post.. so while I said it would be a great excuse.. I didn't mean it as not legitimate in my case either.
 
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visionary

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Luke 16: 28 for I have five brothers, let him warn them, lest they also come to this place of torture.’ 29 “Aḇraham said to him, ‘They have MOSHE AND THE PROPHETS, let them hear them.

The rich man got to his destination by DISOBEYING Torah. Yeshua is the Torah in the Flesh; Not obeying Yeshua is DISOBEYING TORAH.
 
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Jase

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Yeah, this raises so many questions, and I wish we had groups near me where we could study some of the differences more fully and openly.

I'm an old earther in answer to one of the questions. As for many of the other teachings of evangelical christians, I can accept them because I see G-d as all powerful so he can do anything he wants. Like some have said, it doesn't matter to me if it's real or if it's allegory, I can accept either even if I lean one way or the other. If figure living to serve G-d in the here and now is more important that being excrutiatingly dogmatic about issues like the creation, the flood, the rapture.

I do believe in the biblical view of heaven. It's one of the things that attracted me to Christianity in the first place. I couldn't get much info from the temple and it was rarely talked about and I wanted info. I understand the concept of Satan, demons etc and yet at the same time hope that it isn't like the teachings. It's hard for me to understand why G-d would give us such finite lives and then torment unbelievers for eternity so I sometimes wonder if how it's presented to us is misunderstood.

And here's an admission for ya...I feel that when gentiles took over control of how Christianity developed and rid it of most Jewish influences, they did a huge injustice to so many Jews over the millenia. I don't think that how Christianity is practices is what Yeshua or G-d intended and so while I love the people, I never quite feel like I fit into mainstream Christianity and yet, at the same time, there are ZERO messianic congregations around within an easy drive (the closest is about 90 miles away) so I have no way to worship with those who think more like I do.

If I went to a synagogue I'd be treated like an outcast (although I don't think they can legally kick me out). I've tried to explain I'm not there to preach, I just want to learn but still the suspicion remains...another reason I feel that the early development of the church did a disservice to Jews. I've read academic papers which said that the earliest believers were considered a sect of Judaism.

Now to be fair, Jews have become incredibly narrow-minded and intolerant of Jewish believers (and Christianity as a whole) even though the majority of persecution has ceased. This is evidenced by the fact that if you ask a rabbi or many Jews, they will tell you that their kids and relatives who are heavily into Hinduism, buddism, new age faith, wicca, etc are most definitey still Jewish BUT the Jew who believes in Yeshua but maintains a Jewish identity and practice are no longer even remotely Jewish or worthy of trust. I've met plenty of Jews who dislike having their beliefs mocked and yet those same individuals feel completely free to mock Christians and christian beliefs. Just something to consider the next time you (generic 'you') want to make fun of anyone else's beliefs. It's not constructive and benefits no one. It closes doors, it hinders communication. And it certainly doesn't make you a better person. Just sayin'.
I can certainly relate. I too feel like an outcast at Synagogue, and I frankly don't like modern day Christianity enough to go to church. I'd have to go to a more liberal church like Episcopal or MCC to even tolerate it.

I often question whether I made the right choice becoming Messianic since I hate feeling rejected by most of the Jews in the world.
 
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