Messianic Judaism and the Trinity

[mercy1061]

I am also a female, mother, believer... yet just one person...
I also have a mind, body and soul... but still just one

Shema

Yes, but your name is "visionary". You also teacher your children, so you are a teacher.

 

[mercy1061]

I guess I have always looked at it this way. I am Rob. I am one person. Yet to my wife I am a Husband, to my sons I am a father and to my Father I am a son...

I am not 3 different people I am one person yet I have 3 uniquely distinct and different roles that make me appear very, very different roles. In all 3 roles are completely different and not at all the same. I do not behave with my sons or my father relationally the same way I do as my wife. Nor do I relate the same way with my wife as I do my father. And my sons relate completely differently than either my wife or my father.

If you have brothers or sisters with children, you may even be an uncle or grandfather, nephew, grandson, etc. The list goes on, again, why do we need labels? What about the three that agree as one on earth?

 

[mercy1061]

Well ... God is not the Author of confusion.

On a basic level I could never entertain the monotheism of, say, followers of Islam. A very lonely self-absorbed unloving god which they have and the one who spends most of eternity, ALL ON HIS little OWN! No! "In the beginning was God" - (Elohiim - plural) and before anything else was made, by the Son of His Love.

In the real Lord's prayer, John 17, Jesus wasn't talking to Himself! He speaks of a Oneness with the Father Who loves Him and prays for His disciples to be One with Them even as He and the Father are One. That is still in the future for us because the Bride hasn't become the Wife, yet, in the Spiritual sense! Read the parable of the wise and foolish virgins - Matthew 25

Jesus, the Originator of Life (Acts 3:15) didn't pray to Himself in Gethsemane and not because He felt mortified over the prospect of having nails spiked into His wrists and feet. He knew that His fellowship with the Father would be riven in a manner that would be equivalent to experiencing eternal separation for a sinner cast into hell. While He was there, the Father was reconciling the world to Himself through His Son as His High Priest and Atoning Sacrifice. Jesus also demonstrated, in Gethsemane, that He had a will and that His Father had another will! He always deferred to His Father's will - they are, after all, not the same Person! Unlike schizophrenics, He wasn't debating with Himself! He was suffering the prospect of broken fellowship, something that not many Christians take seriously enough in their own walk. Jesus learned obedience through suffering - and that was obedience to the Father's will (Heb 5 : 8) and we are called to learn the same walk by denying ourselves.

On that Cross, He prayed to His Father, and in the period of darkness He prayed to Eli (My God) and then when it was "FINISHED" still on the Cross, He was able to pray to His Father to Whom He commended His Spirit.

Regarding the notion offered in the forum that the planet was given to Jesus as a gift is TOTALLY eclipsed by Jesus' own words; "ALL Authority has been given to Me in Heaven and on earth!" Matthew 28 : 18

Most Christians spend more time in other people's books rather than the Inspired Scriptures. That is why so many are confused. The tangible relationship available now, is through the Holy Spirit, the Comforter and the One promised to us by Jesus. Sent that we might be led to the Father along Life's narrow way.

Our Heavenly Father has NO grandchildren!

When something is "given" it is usually considered a gift. A father may give his son a gift on his birthday. Would you agree?

 

[mercy1061]

I believe sin has caused the light of God to refract so we don't see 'One' white light but seperate manifestations of this one light, as light passing through a prism.

God is one, but in order to understand he who is eternal and omnipresent in a 3 dimensional world he must difuse his oneness into seperate parts. Think LIGHT!! Like a beam of light through a prism, the oneness of God hits our hearts through this sinful world and is refracted, displaying 7 colors that made up the One white light.

When the one God speaks his words are as a rainbow. Pureness viewed through imperfection results in refraction. OR Spirit viewed through creation results in refraction. When the one God communicates to and through his creation he appears seperated so that we may understand who he is in total.

As described above, which is really a core Messianic understanding. That all things in scripture lead to Messiah and that all Torah is a pattern of who Messiah is and what he is doing and trying to communicate to us. Spirit speaking to flesh, the Creator operating through his creation. Makes me think how God must be bored being a being of pure white light, so he speaks. And as he does his words become all the colors of the rainbow. Seperated expressions of the One God. God's words are painting life throughout his creation. And even his Word is like a (2) edged sword, dividing the Spirit from the flesh!! So as to express his Oneness!

We are One! is an exact understanding of Echad, and the trinity. I in him he in me, and they in us. United as one. Seperated so we may understand his inner parts. God has borne his heart to us in the form of Yeshua, our Messiah.

We know that "G-d is light", and in him there is no darkness at all.

You say that white light has seven colors,

John 1:4

From: Yochanan

To: The seven Messianic communities in the province of Asia:

Grace and shalom to you from the One who is, who was and who is coming; from the sevenfold Spirit before his throne;

What about "invisible" light? Can the speed of invisible light be measured by the naked eye?

Romans 1:20
20 For ever since the creation of the universe his invisible qualities — both his eternal power and his divine nature — have been clearly seen, because they can be understood from what he has made. Therefore, they have no excuse;

 

[AbbaLove]

God is one, but in order to understand he who is eternal and omnipresent in a 3 dimensional world he must diffuse his oneness into separate parts. Think LIGHT!! Like a beam of light through a prism, the oneness of God hits our hearts through this sinful world and is refracted, displaying 7 colors that made up the One white light.

It only takes the 3 primary colors to create white light and yet from these 3 primary colors (RBG) an infinite range of colors are possible. For example color TV uses these 3 primary color beams (RBG) to create an infinity of colors as well as white light.

GOD being pure white light is a composite of the 3 primary colors. Red represents Yeshua, Blue represents the Holy Spirit and Green represents the Word. Together they make up the essence of GOD. GOD needed to manifest His salvation to mankind through the God Son, Yeshua, His Holy Spirit and His Word. So the manifestation of GOD's Love and Salvation (the Lamb of God) to redeem fallen mankind takes center stage (as the Lion of Judah) to finally vanquish the enemy.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.

Hebrews 1:2-3
2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself[a] purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Hebrews 2:16-17
16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.
17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
_______________

What you're putting forth has more to do with the 7 Spirits of God mentioned in Revelation and possibly first referenced in Isaiah. Included are the Spirit of the Lord, and the Spirits of Wisdom, of Understanding, of Counsel, of Might, of Knowledge and of Fear of the LORD (Isaiah 11:2).

Revelation 4:5 - And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Revelation 5:6 - And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.​

Do you believe the 7 Spirits referenced in Isaiah are the same 7 Spirits of GOD referenced in Revelation 4 and 5. ?

 

[mercy1061]

It only takes the 3 primary colors to create white light and yet from these 3 primary colors (RBG) an infinite range of colors are possible. For example color TV uses these 3 primary color beams (RBG) to create an infinity of colors as well as white light.

GOD being pure white light is a composite of the 3 primary colors. Red represents Yeshua, Blue represents the Holy Spirit and Green represents the Word. Together they make up the essence of GOD. GOD needed to manifest His salvation to mankind through the God Son, Yeshua, His Holy Spirit and His Word. So the manifestation of GOD's Love and Salvation (the Lamb of God) to redeem fallen mankind takes center stage (as the Lion of Judah) to finally vanquish the enemy.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.

Hebrews 1:2-3
2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself[a] purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Hebrews 2:16-17
16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham.
17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
_______________

What you're putting forth has more to do with the 7 Spirits of God mentioned in Revelation and possibly first referenced in Isaiah. Included are the Spirit of the Lord, and the Spirits of Wisdom, of Understanding, of Counsel, of Might, of Knowledge and of Fear of the LORD (Isaiah 11:2).

Revelation 4:5 - And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Revelation 5:6 - And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.​

Do you believe the 7 Spirits referenced in Isaiah are the same 7 Spirits of GOD referenced in Revelation 4 and 5. ?

Does invisible light seperate into colors?

 

[BukiRob]

Does invisible light seperate into colors?

They do when passed through a prism

 

[mercy1061]

They do when passed through a prism

Okay smartie, are you referring to infrared light or radiation? Infrared radiation gives off "false color" images.

 

[visionary]

Yes, but your name is "visionary". You also teacher your children, so you are a teacher.

Yep.. and the list goes on.. still one person.

 

[BukiRob]

Okay smartie, are you referring to infrared light or radiation? Infrared radiation gives off "false color" images.

Uhmm no it actually does not. Infrared is above the visible spectrum of light. It therefore can not give off any color detectable to the human eye, false or otherwise. What you are referring to is not a false color but rather a camera that is capturing the infrared radiation caused by infrared light

Microwaves are a classic example. A Microwave oven is actually heating and cooking with light at the spectrum above infrared

 

[mercy1061]

Uhmm no it actually does not. Infrared is above the visible spectrum of light. It therefore can not give off any color detectable to the human eye, false or otherwise. What you are referring to is not a false color but rather a camera that is capturing the infrared radiation caused by infrared light

Microwaves are a classic example. A Microwave oven is actually heating and cooking with light at the spectrum above infrared

I was asking a question because you failed to explain, how does invisible light seperate into colors?

 

[visionary]

I was asking a question because you failed to explain, how does invisible light separate into colors?

.... I thought invisible light was on different wave lengths than any colors.... on second thought.. How to make glass disappear in a liquid .. wouldn't that be a refraction of visible light to invisible?

 

[mercy1061]

.... I thought invisible light was on different wave lengths than any colors.... on second thought.. How to make glass disappear in a liquid .. wouldn't that be a refraction of visible light to invisible?

He attempted to use light to support the trinity, light seperates into seven colors, invisible light has no colors. The rainbow in the cloud, visible light.

 

[BukiRob]

He attempted to use light to support the trinity, light seperates into seven colors, invisible light has no colors. The rainbow in the cloud, visible light.

Uhmmm No... I did not. That was Shimshon who made that argument...



The ONLY response regarding light has been to this post and ONLY this post to you...

Originally Posted by mercy1061 View Post
Does invisible light seperate into colors?
They do when passed through a prism

To which you responded:

Okay smartie, are you referring to infrared light or radiation? Infrared radiation gives off "false color" images.

 

[mercy1061]

Uhmmm No... I did not. That was Shimshon who made that argument...



The ONLY response regarding light has been to this post and ONLY this post to you...

Originally Posted by mercy1061 View Post
Does invisible light seperate into colors?
They do when passed through a prism

To which you responded:

Okay smartie, are you referring to infrared light or radiation? Infrared radiation gives off "false color" images.

Again, invisible light when it passes through a prism seperates into seven colors? How is that?

 

[BukiRob]

Again, invisible light when it passes through a prism seperates into seven colors? How is that?

You keep shifting your questions, proclaiming people said things they did not... what is your deal?

 

[mercy1061]

You keep shifting your questions, proclaiming people said things they did not... what is your deal?

I asked Abba a question about how invisible light separate into colors, you gave an answer , your post 107.

 

[rick357]

I was asking a question because you failed to explain, how does invisible light seperate into colors?

Perception...when an object rejects(reflects)certain aspects of the whole it is seen as visible light...or if we are the prism as the light comes through us by our material makeup the light comes out by differant degrees making the one white light be percieved as the individual wave lengths that we percieve as colors at seperate angles

 

[mercy1061]

Perception...when an object rejects(reflects)certain aspects of the whole it is seen as visible light...or if we are the prism as the light comes through us by our material makeup the light comes out by differant degrees making the one white light be percieved as the individual wave lengths that we percieve as colors at seperate angles

"White light" seperates into colors after it travels through a prism, what about invisible light? Invisible light can dwell in thick darkness;


1 Kings 8

12 Shlomo said, “Adonai said he would live in thick darkness. 13 But I have built you a magnificent house, a place where you can live forever.”

2 Chr 6

Shlomo said, “Adonai said he would live in thick darkness. 2 But I have built you a magnificent house, a place where you can live forever.”

 

[Taom Ben Robert]

The name Elohim implies a plurality in unity of three , the father is eternal and he is God ,the bible also says Yeshua is the son , he is equal with the father and eternal , theBible states that the Holy Spirit wrote the bible and referred to Him ( or she as some believe the Spirit is) as God , that pretty much sums the trinity to me.