Thanks, Hydra creature for gracing this thread with your very first post.This " dad" creature seems dangerously insane. Perhaps there should be a disclaimer attached to his posts?
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Thanks, Hydra creature for gracing this thread with your very first post.This " dad" creature seems dangerously insane. Perhaps there should be a disclaimer attached to his posts?
WEll, it only comes as the new heavens are revealed, not in the PO earth. It is the forever capitol of God Himself, so I think of it as heaven, though it will land on the new earth. Couldn't get much more like His kingdom than His home.I assumed the New Jerusalem was the Kingdom of Heaven, an earthly kingdom where Jesus reigns...am I wrong? Why would there be an distinction between the second heaven and Jerusalem
One that comes to mind is where we come down from heaven, on white horses, with Jesus in the lead to conquer this world! It's in Revelations, I think it was 19, I could look it up if you have trouble.A place where we can fly, even the horses can fly
Any scriptures for this?
I doubt you know what you are talking about.
You have books that claim miraculous thingslike the whole universe in a tiny less than thimble sized sweet nothing soup, based solely on assumptions! That happens to oppose the bible as well.You have a book that claims all these miraculous things will happenbut nothing to support these assumptions,
Heaven is well known, and some have dreamed of it, seen it in visions, died, and came back to tell about it, and rose from the dead, telling us what it was like. It has a lot of basis, unlike your claims which all rest on assumption that the past and future are the same!you have not one shred of evidence that Heaven is real, and those events will take place.
The verse says a thrid part of the stars will be cast onto the earth. It is amusing that you can't tell the word stars from the word devils. 6:13 also says that stars fell onto the earth. Stars not devils.Yes the devils are cast down here, by Michael, and the forces of heaven, not like they wouldcome on their own accord.
In other places, it talks of stars being darkened, etc, which leads me to think that we will see a third of the physical stars fall out of the veiw of man as well. Not to earth, of course, it is amusing you chose to misunderstand this, But that is your problem.
Maybe because I have totally refuted your nonsense so many times on so many threads.You are fading here. Sometimes I wonder how I took anything you said with much seriousness.
I asked about revelations and not the Bible as a whole.The bible is based on the Hebrew, as well as the sacred early Christian era material.
So you are claiming thst about 6x10^20 stars will actually be cast unto the earth by a dragons tail after the stars of heaven have already fallen to earth like figs from a tree? And after that this city of transparent gold will come floating down.Of course it is, but also a spiritual exposition which is out of the shortsightedness of only natural minded men.
You can expect many people to make fun of any ideas as goofy as those in the OP of this thread or some of your other gems like "no gravity before the flood" and the sun rotated around the earth before the split and so on and on and on.I would learn some manners in regards to sacred beliefs and customs of others. Do you make fun of those little Jewish caps as well? What about turbans? Guess hate crimes are tolerated here, as long as it is against Christian core beliefs, Jesus, and God.
Belief in heaven is one thing. Fantasies like your OP are another. Why do think people are asking what drugs you have been taking?The city is well known, commonly called heaven, and the hope of all ages for Christians, who are not at home in this world, just passing through like pilgrims and strangers, That city is our home.
Jesus is the bright and morning star, and stars do have a connection to spirits. Some feel it represents the territory or jurisdiction, etc of the angel. Otherd have other ideas. But in this case, the dragon has a third of the angels cast down with him to earth. It could be about the same time that stars fall out of our view, and connected somehow. But the actual stars will not be cast to earth, the spirits refered to will. Sounds like you don't understand the spiritual aspects of the bible, and think it must be literal, and physical, which is dead wrong. Also sounds like you don't really want to know. AS I said, you would need God's help, and to be spiritually minded. No other way there, it is locked to the understanding of the natural only mindThe verse says a thrid part of the stars will be cast onto the earth. It is amusing that you can't tell the word stars from the word devils. 6:13 also says that stars fell onto the earth. Stars not devils.
Ha. Starting to sound pitiful in the empty little victory claims, when you have only recited uniformitarian beliefs. Like in this thread, the topic is the future, and state of heaven, and you have come up empty as to showing us the future will be the same as now.Maybe because I have totally refuted your nonsense so many times on so many threads.
John was His friend, and a witness of the things in the gospels, as well as the reputed author of Revelations, that is the man that penned the revelation OF Jesus Christ, as it says it actually is.I asked about revelations and not the Bible as a whole.
No, the rebels that are cast out with the devil come to earth. If stars fall, coincedentally about a third it says in ANOTHR place in the bible, they will not fall on little old earth. That is insultingly ridiculous, and not at all what the nbible says.So you are claiming thst about 6x10^20 stars will actually be cast unto the earth by a dragons tail after the stars of heaven have already fallen to earth like figs from a tree?
And after that this city of transparent gold will come floating down.
That is fine, but they can't do so in a biblical way, because the city is coming, we know what it is made of, and how big it is, who lives there as well. We also know that this universe, importantly, and it's current state is temporary. No present based laws can apply there, that will burn out the sun, etc etc etc.You can expect many people to make fun of any ideas as goofy as those in the OP of this thread
No gravity will exist as we know it in the future at least. Look at the size of that thing 1500 miles long, wide, and high! Coming down to earth. As for the sun rotating where, I have no idea at all. I can say it wuill be here however. Also, that we are the center of the universe as will then be apparent, regardless of whether we have a similar orbit order in our solar system.or some of your other gems like "no gravity before the flood" and the sun rotated around the earth before the split and so on and on and on.
To illustrate that matter in heaven is not the same as matter here, according to the bible. It is eternal, and not in decay, and different. Also, it is clear that science has absolutely nothing that could begin to challenge that reality. All they could do is cling to a uniformitarian belief, with not a shred of evidence.This has to be one of the strangest OP's I have seen in a long time
What is the point?
The verses say stars. Twist it all you but you are leaving the literal behind as you must.Jesus is the bright and morning star, and stars do have a connection to spirits. Some feel it represents the territory or jurisdiction, etc of the angel. Otherd have other ideas. But in this case, the dragon has a third of the angels cast down with him to earth. It could be about the same time that stars fall out of our view, and connected somehow. But the actual stars will not be cast to earth, the spirits refered to will. Sounds like you don't understand the spiritual aspects of the bible, and think it must be literal, and physical, which is dead wrong. Also sounds like you don't really want to know. AS I said, you would need God's help, and to be spiritually minded. No other way there, it is locked to the understanding of the natural only mind
Everyone who reads the threads can see how you failed totally even though you twist your myth this way and that and wave your hands around so desperately.Ha. Starting to sound pitiful in the empty little victory claims, when you have only recited uniformitarian beliefs. Like in this thread, the topic is the future, and state of heaven, and you have come up empty as to showing us the future will be the same as now.
So, what's left? You try to cast aspersions on me, and the bible. Too bad you have no case.
As it typical of you, you state this as fact even though the author of Revelation is disputed by Biblical scholars.John was His friend, and a witness of the things in the gospels, as well as the reputed author of Revelations, that is the man that penned the revelation OF Jesus Christ, as it says it actually is.
Really. I thought it said,No, the rebels that are cast out with the devil come to earth. If stars fall, coincedentally about a third it says in ANOTHR place in the bible, they will not fall on little old earth. That is insultingly ridiculous, and not at all what the nbible says.
We didn't see any of these things. The only evidence that any of them ever happened is in the Bible.That is more certain than the law of gravity!!! An intersesting point, is that this future state matter does float as needed. We can look for more evidences of this, and find them.
Miracles on earth are a touch of the devine, or spiritual. When the spiritual is added, Jesus walked on water! In another place, we see an ax floated on water. Elsewhere, we see that manna seemed to still be good, in the Ark of the Covenant I think it was a something like few hundred years later! We saw that the adding of the spiritual gives healings, even raised some from the dead!!! These are properties of matter in heaven as well, and a taste of what it will be like. We saw flying chariots (saucers?) carry off Elijah to heaven, and one guy walk so far with God, he simply was no more here, he was there. We saw some find themselves on the other side of a sea in no time at all. These are powers we will have, and traits of the new reality to come. The bible is full of miracles. Consider them clues.
Only if you take Revelation literally which also means accepting that stars will fall to earth like figs from a tree and that about 7 x 10^20 stars will be cast to the earth by a dragons tail.That is fine, but they can't do so in a biblical way, because the city is coming, we know what it is made of, and how big it is, who lives there as well. We also know that this universe, importantly, and it's current state is temporary. No present based laws can apply there, that will burn out the sun, etc etc etc.
You may wonder why people ask you what hallucinogens you are taking but I don't wonder at all.No gravity will exist as we know it in the future at least. Look at the size of that thing 1500 miles long, wide, and high! Coming down to earth. As for the sun rotating where, I have no idea at all. I can say it wuill be here however. Also, that we are the center of the universe as will then be apparent, regardless of whether we have a similar orbit order in our solar system.
Yes, but it has nothing to do with C and E
The verses say stars. Twist it all you but you are leaving the literal behind as you must.
Sorry, I take you out every time on bible ground, and science cannot address the state of the future, except in uniformitarian BELIEF!!!! You have to admit that, there is no choice.Everyone who reads the threads can see how you failed totally even though you twist your myth this way and that and wave your hands around so desperately.
I call someone a reputed author, and you lay this little doggie bag at my feet?As it typical of you, you state this as fact even though the author of Revelation is disputed by Biblical scholars.
Already dealt with.and then it says.
12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:
It doesn't say anything about devils, only stars.
That is because you cannot see the future! Your science is way way to little and puny for that. But we can! And nothing science can say about it. Not a peep.We didn't see any of these things. The only evidence that any of them ever happened is in the Bible.
AS explained that is nonsense. The bible is not uniformitarian! It talks also of things spiritual. Real things, but spiritual as well as the physical, it does both. You can only perceive the natural, or physical bits, and think that the spiritual things are also like that, and when it proves to be not physically literal, of course at all, you try to dump on the whole thing.Only if you take Revelation literally which also means accepting that stars will fall to earth like figs from a tree and that about 7 x 10^20 stars will be cast to the earth by a dragons tail.
I can tell you it is all true true true, and good as gold, tried in the fire, and tested, and purified, and it means what it says. It deals in physical and spiritual, and one simply HAS to be spiritually minded to understand it! No maybes. Humbly ask God, and He will save us, and open our eys. That is why it is likened to being born again. We are again born in the spirit, and start to have our spiritual eyes opened. Do we crawl back in the womb? No, that is a ridiculous, physical only based take on a spiritual truth. Much like you have tried on stars.
Yes, but it has nothing to do with C and E
No, the evolving future state of our heavens is germain to the issue of where we came from. [evolving, in that it will be changed by God, of course] Because it illustrates the uniformitarian claims and assumptions that science deals with about the past and future.Nothing dad writes has anything to do with C and E. Perhaps a mod could move this over to the psychology forum?
No, the evolving future state of our heavens is germain to the issue of where we came from. [evolving, in that it will be changed by God, of course] Because it illustrates the uniformitarian claims and assumptions that science deals with about the past and future.
It shows the bible tells of a matter in heaven that is very different.
It exposes the claims of science that the sun will burn out, and our galaxy will crash, etc etc. as pure prophesy based only on this temporary state.
It touches on the very nerve of the core of the debate, and does so in a way that Christians cannot lose, and science is left dangling, and shown for what it is. A present based knowledge only that is limited. Limited. Limited.
Perhaps a mod could caution some to actually make a relevant point?
Only in your INTERPRETATION. The other verses say stars and say nothing about angels. If he meant angels there why didn't he explicity say angels? When he talks about the moon and the sun and the stars in R 6 it is pretty clear that he is talking about heavenly bodies and not angels.Mt 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mr 13:25 - And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. Lu 21:25 - And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Now, here we do see signs in the heavens involving stars. As I pointed out, other places stars refer to spirits. That is simply the facts. The dragon is clearly the devil, and that is actually stated in Revelation. The 'stars' cast out to earth with him are spirits. I also pointed out that Jesus was even referred to as the Morning Star. Now, feast you eyes on this, and consider the matter settled. Re 1:20 - The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
One could postulate that something could change in the future. However, we have data showing uniformity of process in the past extending well before you supposed split that you have been unable to deal with. Even your constantly morphing myth fails to explain the scientific data from astronomy and geology no matter how you twist and turn. Further you now admit that not everything in the Bible means exactly what it says. You have lost. Get over it.Sorry, I take you out every time on bible ground, and science cannot address the state of the future, except in uniformitarian BELIEF!!!! You have to admit that, there is no choice.
Sorry. You did say reputed.I call someone a reputed author, and you lay this little doggie bag at my feet?
No only those things that are patently ridiculous like stars falling to earth, a 6,000 year old universe, plants being created before the sun, rapid continent separation and most of the world's sedimentary geology forming in 1,600 years between creation and a global flood (or during of after in more standard YEC models) which left no evidence that it ever happened and of course all land life being descended from those who survived that flood on a big wooden boat that landed somewhere in the middle east.Already dealt with.
That is because you cannot see the future! Your science is way way to little and puny for that. But we can! And nothing science can say about it. Not a peep.
AS explained that is nonsense. The bible is not uniformitarian! It talks also of things spiritual. Real things, but spiritual as well as the physical, it does both. You can only perceive the natural, or physical bits, and think that the spiritual things are also like that, and when it proves to be not physically literal, of course at all, you try to dump on the whole thing.
It says that stars will fall and also be cast to to earth but you claim it doesn't mean that.I can tell you it is all true true true, and good as gold, tried in the fire, and tested, and purified, and it means what it says.
Yes, it is ridiculous to say that actual physical stars will fall to earth. It is also ridiculous to say that the earth was actually physically divided in the time of Peleg. Either would end life on earth. You admit that one clear literal reading of the verses is ridiculous while claiming that another reading that is actually not as clear must be interpreted as rapid continent separation and vast changes in the laws of physics. You require this to sustain your literal interpretation of other verses but since some verses are symbolic and not literal there is no need to distort all of science to try, even though you fail, to make observations of the world's geology agree with an unecessary literal interpretation.It deals in physical and spiritual, and one simply HAS to be spiritually minded to understand it! No maybes. Humbly ask God, and He will save us, and open our eys. That is why it is likened to being born again. We are again born in the spirit, and start to have our spiritual eyes opened. Do we crawl back in the womb? No, that is a ridiculous, physical only based take on a spiritual truth. Much like you have tried on stars.
Nothing dad writes has anything to do with C and E. Perhaps a mod could move this over to the psychology forum?
Is there an abnormal psychology forum on this board?
F.B.
A state that the bible talks a lot of, and science knows nothing about.Which future state would that be? ..
A state that the bible talks a lot of, and science knows nothing about.
Why does He say we must be born again? It talks of things spiritual as well, but can be interpreted. Not by the natural minded, however.Only in your INTERPRETATION. The other verses say stars and say nothing about angels. If he meant angels there why didn't he explicity say angels?
I can see that it is indistinguishable in your mind. One clue is to look at context, and other passages in the bible.When he talks about the moon and the sun and the stars in R 6 it is pretty clear that he is talking about heavenly bodies and not angels.
One could postulate that something could change in the future.
One could postulate that something couldstay the same in the future.
WEll that is another thread, but here we can see how your uniformitarian beliefs are both baseless and in conflict with the coming new heavens.However, we have data showing uniformity of process in the past extending well before you supposed split that you have been unable to deal with.
It means what it says, but sometinmes refers to spiritual things. Things out of the fishbowl, if you will, of this physical only realm.Further you now admit that not everything in the Bible means exactly what it says. You have lost. Get over it.
Sorry. You did say reputed.
I expect them to fall to earth, as the spirits referred to will. I also expect some cool star action fireworks like you never dreamed.No only those things that are patently ridiculous like stars falling to earth,
a 6,000 year old universe, plants being created before the sun,
Of course. That is bible 101.
Not the way you have thought it might be uniform.rapid continent separation and most of the world's sedimentary geology forming in 1,600 years between creation and a global flood (or during of after in more standard YEC models) which left no evidence that it ever happened
and of course all land life being descended from those who survived that flood on a big wooden boat that landed somewhere in the middle east.
Rapid evolution was a neat creation trait pre split, of course.
Only if one blindly embraces past uniformity assumptiuons.... It is also ridiculous to say that the earth was actually physically divided in the time of Peleg.
Science is diatorted when it looks out of the fishbowl of the present. It can't see the future, and the wonderful state of matter that the bible says will exist.... but since some verses are symbolic and not literal there is no need to distort all of science to try, even though you fail, to make observations of the world's geology agree with an unecessary literal interpretation.
I kid you not.
Right. If you look at the context provided by Genesis 10:5 and 10:32 and conclude that the division in the time of Peleg was political and not a physical division of the earth. But then you only want to look at verses in context when the context doesn't conflict with your fantasy.Why does He say we must be born again? It talks of things spiritual as well, but can be interpreted. Not by the natural minded, however.
I can see that it is indistinguishable in your mind. One clue is to look at context, and other passages in the bible.
You could postulate that but you can look at data showing uniformity of process well back into the past.One could postulate that something couldstay the same in the future.
Consistency of physical laws is accepted because it works to explain the data. As far as the coming new heavens I'll worry about them if they ever come. I figure they are about 2,000 years overdue so I don't expect them any time soon.WEll that is another thread, but here we can see how your uniformitarian beliefs are both baseless and in conflict with the coming new heavens.
Like stars falling to earth.It means what it says, but sometinmes refers to spiritual things. Things out of the fishbowl, if you will, of this physical only realm.
I expect you will be disappointed.I expect them to fall to earth, as the spirits referred to will. I also expect some cool star action fireworks like you never dreamed.
Rapid evolution is a pure YEC invention to get around obvious problems with too many animals on the ark. It is only a fantasy.Of course. That is bible 101.
Not the way you have thought it might be uniform.
Rapid evolution was a neat creation trait pre split, of course.
The assumptions are substantiated with data you can't explain away.Only if one blindly embraces past uniformity assumptiuons.
But the bizarro fantasy past you have dreamed up is not consistent with either science or the Bible. I kid you not.Science is diatorted when it looks out of the fishbowl of the present. It can't see the future, and the wonderful state of matter that the bible says will exist.
The Frumious Bandersnatch