Masturbation is a mortal sin.

[NDIrish]

Masturbation isn't always a mortal sin. It is always grave matter but you also have full consent of the will as well as full knowledge of the gravitivity of the sin. Not everyone who is addicted to this has full consent of the will.

You know, I hear this argument all the time. but I think it's terribly overused.

With the exception of those that have legitimate mental illnesses, you have complete control over your body, and what you do with it. Passion is a difficult thing to overcome, but to say someone is "addicted" is absurd.

Come on...

But that's just my crazy idea that one of the things that differentiates us from animals is our control over our body and our actions.

 

[PetertheRock]

When someone is in their 20s and 30s and have had this habbit since they were in their early teens it's very difficult if not almost impossible to stop. Call it an addiction, call it a habbit, call it a mental illness, but there comes a point where people lose consent of the will.

Just as a drug addict gets addicted to drugs and an alcoholic gets addicted to alcohol someone who frequently masturbates for years and years becomes addicted to it.

Can they stop? It's possible. But it requires as much help and support as an alcoholic or drug addict who gives up alcohol or drugs.

 

[NDIrish]

When someone is in their 20s and 30s and have had this habbit since they were in their early teens it's very difficult if not almost impossible to stop. Call it an addiction, call it a habbit, call it a mental illness, but there comes a point where people lose consent of the will.

Just as a drug addict gets addicted to drugs and an alcoholic gets addicted to alcohol someone who frequently masturbates for years and years becomes addicted to it.

Can they stop? It's possible. But it requires as much help and support as an alcoholic or drug addict who gives up alcohol or drugs.

Go to confession weekly, to the same priest. Sit across from him every week, and tell him every week that you've abused yourself in the same manner...every week...

That'll stop it real quick.

 

[PetertheRock]

That doesn't work for everyone. Believe me, I tried it.

Edit: and I am still trying it. Does it work? Yes. But it's a slow process and I have had many relapses. I am currently working on almost a month of freedom from this sin which is pretty close if not over my longest time avoiding this sin.

 

[DharmaInitiative]

You chose what you do to your body. It's just a matter of will.

Making excuses just allows you to fail. Would you accept a rapist making excuses that it's just "so hard" to control himself and he can't help it? No, of course not. I mean, come on, it's not like it's something that can just happen on accident....

I think the first step to failure (and to loss of salvation) is when we begin to make excuses for our sin. This happens in the case of fornication ("oh but we're really in love this coudln't possibly be wrong"), in the case of gays ("but god made me this way and he can't want me to never have love"), and in masturabation ("oh it's an addiction"). It's all just sinning that takes us away from salvation.

If you need to go to confession every day. And do it face to face.

 

[BillH]

Go to confession weekly, to the same priest. Sit across from him every week, and tell him every week that you've abused yourself in the same manner...every week...

That'll stop it real quick.

It'll stop it slowly. It won't stop it real quick -- but that's just my experience.

 

[BillH]

That doesn't work for everyone. Believe me, I tried it.

Edit: and I am still trying it. Does it work? Yes. But it's a slow process and I have had many relapses. I am currently working on almost a month of freedom from this sin which is pretty close if not over my longest time avoiding this sin.

Good! The temptation goes away very slowly, but the longer that you're able to do so, the more it loosens it's hold over you. Keep praying!

 

[Protinus]

And what of this mortal sin? Why does it occupy so much "concern" and lurching toward castigation and self-assured "advice". These are the trials of men...taking inventory of someone else's sin and proclaiming the tally for others.

there but for the grace of God...

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

And what of this mortal sin? Why does it occupy so much "concern" and lurching toward castigation and self-assured "advice". These are the trials of men...taking inventory of someone else's sin and proclaiming the tally for others.

there but for the grace of God...

I'm not sure what you are talking about, but anyways it is important that mortal sins and what it is be discussed, as how are we to be united with God if we kill His life within us by committing mortal sin.

Nothing is more important in this life than theosis/divinization, becoming one with God. It is a fact that mortal sin kills this process, and people need to be made aware of the fact so that we can repent and once again unite ourselves to God and allow His grace to work in our lives.

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

It'll stop it slowly. It won't stop it real quick -- but that's just my experience.

It took a 2 year arduous process for me to be liberated.

 

[Rising_Suns]

bump.

 

[DustinM]

Why is masturbation a mortal sin?

It seems to me that the bible says nothing about masturbation specifically, and with it being so prevalent, you’d think it would. If God really found it that offensive, then why wouldn’t He say so? These questions are not meant to be rhetorical (i.e. as an attack on Catholicism). They are my true questions. Why is masturbation – the act itself – a mortal sin?

We can say it is against God’s plan for procreation, but doesn’t that need to be backed up by the bible? The bible is specific about all kinds of sexual acts that are not allowed (adultery, fornication, rape, incest, homosexuality, inappropriate behavior with animals, orgies), and masturbation is not included on the list.

Some say that masturbation isn’t a sin. But it leads to sexual fantasies, which is lust (a mortal sin). However, sexual fantasies are not always lust. Lust, as it is defined, is essentially “desire with intent” or “very strong desire” at the least. So if a man looks at a woman and says to himself or his friends “Man, I’d so DO her!” then he is a guilty of lust (assuming he’s serious). But it is possible to have a fantasy and NOT lust. To experience a fantasy, but say to yourself in all seriousness and truthfulness “I would not act out this fantasy if given the chance.”

When Jesus said “whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” The word for lust is translated from epithumeo which means “desire with intent.” It is possible to desire without intent.

Most of my sexual fantasies are not with intent at all. In fact, I have not had a lustful fantasy ever since I figured out that lust was a mortal sin.

I’m having a lot of difficulty with this, and I’m asking for your help. I’m hoping for biblical reasons why 1) Masturbation is a mortal sin, and 2) Sexual fantasies by themselves are mortal sins.

If they are not in the bible, then why do Catholics view them as sins worthy of going to hell for?

These are honest questions. I’m looking for friendly help, which I’m sure I will find here. Stronger faith comes through questioning.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rhamiel]

It talks about it in the Bible, Genesis 38:7-10, touching yourself removes the act from the purpose, and is thus a mockery of the natural order.

 

[MikeK]

It talks about it in the Bible, Genesis 38:7-10, touching yourself removes the act from the purpose, and is thus a mockery of the natural order.

I am in no way arguing for touching yourself here, but the story of Onan is not the clear biblical evidence that Dustin is looking for. Onan was told specifically that he was to inpregnate his brother's widow and he made the decision not to. This part of the bible may or may not be about touching yourself, you could read it as being against touching yourself, against the pull-out method of BC, or against disobeying the command to impregnate his brother's widow.
It's also important to note that touching yourself is not always a mortal sin, but it can be. I havn't (and don't want to) read the thread, but I'm sure that's already been covered.

 

[colleen]

Mike the only problem with your reasoning is that the punishment for not obeying the other law was not death, and God killed him for pulling out.

 

[DustinM]

It talks about it in the Bible, Genesis 38:7-10, touching yourself removes the act from the purpose, and is thus a mockery of the natural order.

That is about Onan, and how he didn't fulfill his duty to allow his brother's line to carry on. He was using his brother's wife for sex without procreation. THAT is against natural order, I agree.

This passage is basically against using the "pull-out" method.

Onan didn't touch (that we know of), and those passages you refer to are not about masturbation at all.

EDIT: Looks like some people have posted in between with somewhat similar sentiments about Onan. Sorry for covering material twice.

 

[St_Joseph_Cupertino]

Why is masturbation a mortal sin?

It seems to me that the bible says nothing about masturbation specifically, and with it being so prevalent, you’d think it would. If God really found it that offensive, then why wouldn’t He say so? These questions are not meant to be rhetorical (i.e. as an attack on Catholicism). They are my true questions. Why is masturbation – the act itself – a mortal sin?

We can say it is against God’s plan for procreation, but doesn’t that need to be backed up by the bible? The bible is specific about all kinds of sexual acts that are not allowed (adultery, fornication, rape, incest, homosexuality, inappropriate behavior with animals, orgies), and masturbation is not included on the list.

Some say that masturbation isn’t a sin. But it leads to sexual fantasies, which is lust (a mortal sin). However, sexual fantasies are not always lust. Lust, as it is defined, is essentially “desire with intent” or “very strong desire” at the least. So if a man looks at a woman and says to himself or his friends “Man, I’d so DO her!” then he is a guilty of lust (assuming he’s serious). But it is possible to have a fantasy and NOT lust. To experience a fantasy, but say to yourself in all seriousness and truthfulness “I would not act out this fantasy if given the chance.”

When Jesus said “whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” The word for lust is translated from epithumeo which means “desire with intent.” It is possible to desire without intent.

Most of my sexual fantasies are not with intent at all. In fact, I have not had a lustful fantasy ever since I figured out that lust was a mortal sin.

I’m having a lot of difficulty with this, and I’m asking for your help. I’m hoping for biblical reasons why 1) Masturbation is a mortal sin, and 2) Sexual fantasies by themselves are mortal sins.

If they are not in the bible, then why do Catholics view them as sins worthy of going to hell for?

These are honest questions. I’m looking for friendly help, which I’m sure I will find here. Stronger faith comes through questioning.

Thanks in advance.

Hi there DustinM!
First, let me say thank you for posting your questions.

I'll post my thoughts here, I'm sure that if I miss-represent the Church on any teaching, some of the more learned folk will correct me

Catholics go way back on this, so bear with me.
We look at how God created man and how God intended for us to use this amazing gift of sex. We also look at how God instituted Marriage. We believe that all sexual acts should be done in context of marriage.
Sex has two purposes: Procreative and Unitive in marriage.
Sex was intended between husband and wife and needs to fulfill both these criteria for it to be beautiful as intended by God.
Out of this the whole birth control case is argued as well, since you take away the procreative aspect of sex.
Masturbation is essentially deriving sexual pleasure without the unitive aspect of sex.

The Catechism states it quite well:
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action." "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."

That, in essence is why Masturbation is a mortal sin.
I have not delved into the whole "Sin of Onan" thing, it it seems to be very much a controversial topic. In thinking of sex the way it was intended, one starts to see where the logic comes from.

Also, the Catechism teaches about lust:
2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

Lust goes beyond just disordered desire, it also reaches to objectification. One could be guilty of lust even if you think of your wife that way. Catholics believe that if you have a "lustful" thought, or in your interpretation, even a thought of desire with a woman, and you willingly entertain that thought, that is a mortal sin.
We should strive to remain pure in all things, thought and deed.

Basically, Catholics look at the big picture of sex, how it was intended by God and we apply that to life.

Now, having said all of this, it is by no means easy...far from it, but god's forgiveness is infinite and the door ton the confessional is always open!

I hope this helped you to see the big picture?

Let me know if you have any more questions.

In Christ.

 

[Assisi]

That is about Onan, and how he didn't fulfill his duty to allow his brother's line to carry on. He was using his brother's wife for sex without procreation. THAT is against natural order, I agree.
.

You are right that the problem is that Onan used his brother's wife for his own pleasure and also distorted to act itself (deliberately excluding procreation).

Masturbation is basically a person using him/herself for pleasure. God created sex for us to give love to our spouses. Eph 5 describes how husbands must love their wives as Christ loves the Church. Well, Christ gave His whole Self for us on the Cross. So to imitate this love in marriage and sex, we must be giving our whole selves to our spouse. This is a beautiful gift of God, to love as He loves. In masturbation a person does not give him/herself away totally to a spouse, but rather turns in on him/herself. Using him/herself and distorting the act. Exactly what Onan was killed for.

One reason that masturbation is not spelled out in the Bible in a way that many people would like, is because the people who were reading the Bible as it was written were not reading it in isolation. The word fornication is in there a fair bit, but there is no clear definition of what constitutes fornication. This is because, if someone is unsure about what is fornication they are meant to turn to a leader in their church (maybe a priest, or a bishop) to ask. And at the same time as people would read or hear the Bible, they would hear preaching from the Church. We can see that this was the intended model from 1Tim 3. Oral preaching and Holy Tradition was the norm, the Scriptures (esp the New Testament) were a supplement to that.

 

[PetertheRock]

Masturbation isn't always a mortal sin. It's always grave matter but unless the person has full knowledge that this or any other sin is serious and unless the person also has full consent of the will then in some cases it may not be mortal.

 

[DustinM]

Hi there DustinM!
First, let me say thank you for posting your questions.

I'll post my thoughts here, I'm sure that if I miss-represent the Church on any teaching, some of the more learned folk will correct me

Catholics go way back on this, so bear with me.
We look at how God created man and how God intended for us to use this amazing gift of sex. We also look at how God instituted Marriage. We believe that all sexual acts should be done in context of marriage.
Sex has two purposes: Procreative and Unitive in marriage.
Sex was intended between husband and wife and needs to fulfill both these criteria for it to be beautiful as intended by God.
Out of this the whole birth control case is argued as well, since you take away the procreative aspect of sex.
Masturbation is essentially deriving sexual pleasure without the unitive aspect of sex.

The Catechism states it quite well:
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action." "The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."

That, in essence is why Masturbation is a mortal sin.
I have not delved into the whole "Sin of Onan" thing, it it seems to be very much a controversial topic. In thinking of sex the way it was intended, one starts to see where the logic comes from.

Also, the Catechism teaches about lust:
2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

Lust goes beyond just disordered desire, it also reaches to objectification. One could be guilty of lust even if you think of your wife that way. Catholics believe that if you have a "lustful" thought, or in your interpretation, even a thought of desire with a woman, and you willingly entertain that thought, that is a mortal sin.
We should strive to remain pure in all things, thought and deed.

Basically, Catholics look at the big picture of sex, how it was intended by God and we apply that to life.

Now, having said all of this, it is by no means easy...far from it, but god's forgiveness is infinite and the door ton the confessional is always open!

I hope this helped you to see the big picture?

Let me know if you have any more questions.

In Christ.

You just quoted a bunch from the Catechism. I'm looking for why it was written that way. Where in the bible did Catholics derive their masturbation stance in writing the Catechism?

Also, when you speak of lust, I am a little confused. Are you saying that it IS a mortal sin to have sexual thoughts (without truly desiring those thoughts to come true)? Because that is NOT lust. Not as it is defined as extreme desire (in the least), and desire with intent (how it's generally thought of).

Lust is when you fantasize and want that fantasy to come true, and under the conditions of intense desire. (The desire for one's own spouse doesn't count.)

Fantasies by themselves, where one says "I'm going to imagine this because it's fun to imagine it...but I don't want it to actually come true" is not lust. It may be a sin, but it's not a mortal sin.

It seems, however, that Catholics define lust to also mean any sexual thoughts, which doesn't seem to be what Jesus meant.

So I still am desiring to know why Catholics look at masturbation and sexual thoughts the way they do. Another way of asking this is: Where did Catholics derive their more specific definitions from? (Because it's not directly from the Bible, as far as I can tell). Where did they get their specific "big picture" as you say?