Mary's virginity

[ContraMundum]

All true, but honoring the word of G-d in the form doesn't make it an idol, although I've heard Christians call it as such. The Kissing of tefilin and tallis are because the also contain the word of G-d. Same thing with the mezuzahs.

Yep. It's a nice show of devotion but the Law never says to kiss physical things as an act of worship.

Now the waving of the lulav, you know that is a commandment to do so and the different directions are a way to show that G-d is everywhere since he didn't tell us how to wave it.

Yes, but the "how" of waving the Lulav is extra-Biblical. There are several different minhagim about that, even the blessings one says for any mitzvah is not found in scripture.

Now as to the other things, the candles, the washings etc are baggage if you want to look at them that way.

I guess it depends on why you want to change it, or was it you didn't want to participate in it for personal reasons?

I was using the word baggage ironically. I wouldn't change rabbinic tradition for anything. Except for metzitzah b'peh- which to me is demented and sick. Whoever thought that one up would go to jail these days.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Aveinu

Avinu Sh'ba-Shamayim,
Yitkadeish Shimkha
Tamlikh (Tavo) Malkhutkha,
Yei'ase Retzonkha,
Ba-Shamayim U-va'Aretz.
Et Lechem Chu'keinu Tein Lanu Ha-Yom.
U'ma'chal Lanu Al Chovoteinu
Keshe'mechalnu Af Anu Lechayaveinu,
Ve'Al Tevienu Lidei Nisayon,
Ela Tatzileinu Min Ha-Ra.
Amen

It's really not clear what you are saying. You seem to be saying that all repetition is vain, therefore repeating the Our Father or the Hail Mary is vain repetition. But then you quote the Aveinu, which is also repeated rather than improvised. Are you saying that the Aveinu is also a vain repetition? Or am I totally on the wrong track with this?

אבינו is avinu, not aveinu - in every dialect of Hebrew. I also don't understand why some people render a full Hebrew vowel (such as the segol at the beginning of שבשמים) as if it were non-existent or equivalent to a sheva. It should be she-ba-shamayim, not sh'ba-shamayim, as if the segol were not a full vowel.

 

[Lulav]

אבינו is avinu, not aveinu - in every dialect of Hebrew. I also don't understand why some people render a full Hebrew vowel (such as the segol at the beginning of שבשמים) as if it were non-existent or equivalent to a sheva. It should be she-ba-shamayim, not sh'ba-shamayim, as if the segol were not a full vowel.

Thank you for grading my paper. Perhaps you should contact the website where I got that from?

 

[yonah_mishael]

Thank you for grading my paper. Perhaps you should contact the website where I got that from?

Stop quoting bad sources.

 

[Lulav]

Yep. It's a nice show of devotion but the Law never says to kiss physical things as an act of worship.

True it is not commanded, but would you rather have someone kiss you out of love or demand?

Yes, but the "how" of waving the Lulav is extra-Biblical. There are several different minhagim about that, even the blessings one says for any mitzvah is not found in scripture.

I noted that, but don't you think the tradition in place is better than just waving it around like you're swatting at flies? When I do it, the directions make me think and truly internalize that G-d is everywhere, all around us. As King David said

1 You have searched me, Lord,and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I rise;you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3 You discern my going out and my lying down;you are familiar with all my ways.
4 Before a word is on my tongue you, Lord, know it completely.
5 You hem me in behind and before, and you lay your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,too lofty for me to attain.
7 Where can I go from your Spirit?Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,your right hand will hold me fast.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me,”
12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;the night will shine like the day,for darkness is as light to you.................

I think this was pertinent in forming that tradition, if I recall..........

I was using the word baggage ironically. I wouldn't change rabbinic tradition for anything. Except for metzitzah b'peh- which to me is demented and sick. Whoever thought that one up would go to jail these days.

Yeah, I agree.

 

[visionary]

That's exactly what Mary does for us.

How did Mary jump into this relationship? Did Peter turn from Yeshua to now start asking Mary to talk to Yeshua for him?

 

[BukiRob]

How did Mary jump into this relationship? Did Peter turn from Yeshua to now start asking Mary to talk to Yeshua for him?

The thing is, no where, absolutely NO WHERE do even see the slightest hint that Mary plays any kind of role outside of raising Messiah as a child. Very little of scripture even discusses here life outside of the limited information as Yeshua's earthly mother. Certainly she is not at all portrayed as any kind of spiritual leader in the early church, we see no evidence that she was involved in any meaningful way in Messiah's ministry....

 

[Open Heart]

How did Mary jump into this relationship? Did Peter turn from Yeshua to now start asking Mary to talk to Yeshua for him?

Why do you think you have to turn from Yeshua to pray for one another?

 

[visionary]

Why do you think you have to turn from Yeshua to pray for one another?

Why would anyone turn to Mary to talk to Yeshua for them? Jesus Christ is our Redeemer, Mediator, Advocate. Christ is assisted by the Virgin Mary in her triune role as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix. The following 13 points are an important part of a correct understanding of this doctrine.

1. Mary's triune role as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix is a reflection of the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity.... etc etc etc
http://www.catholicplanet.com/CMA/

 

[Lulav]

Oye!

 

[visionary]

Here is some double speak... It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Catholics do not pray TO saints or Mary, but rather that Catholics can ask saints or Mary to pray FOR them.

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/prayer-saints-Mary.html#ixzz3bqebz84a

 

[BukiRob]

Here is some double speak... It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Catholics do not pray TO saints or Mary, but rather that Catholics can ask saints or Mary to pray FOR them.

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/prayer-saints-Mary.html#ixzz3bqebz84a

I guess my question would be how can a dead person pray to anyone? "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7. We go to the grave when we die. "The body without the spirit ["breath," see margin] is dead." James 2:26. "The spirit of God ["the breath which God gave him," see margin] is in my nostrils." Job 27:3. All that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth." John 5:28, 29. "David ... is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day." "For David is not ascended into the heavens." Acts 2:29, 34. "If I wait, the grave is mine house." Job 17:13.
The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." "There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10. "The dead praise not the Lord." Psalms 115:17.

It is sad that even many believers still believe the original lie. They believe the lie that Satan spoke to Eve. Surely you will not die....

Mary cant pray to anyone because she is in the grave. Just like all of the believers since that day until the present awaiting the Resurrection of the righteous aware of nothing or as Paul puts it those who have fallen asleep. Mary can't pray for anyone any more than your childhood pet who is dead can.