Mary's virginity

Daughter of Ararat

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I found this article, Mary as Ever-Virgin - The Orthodox Faith and I wanted to see if anyone had any feedback on something that it said. This is one part that stood out that made me want to ask about it.

The scripture is clear that Jesus is the son of Mary, but is not clear if the other siblings are also Mary’s children. In Jewish culture, when a couple had children from a previous marriage, the children from the male’s previous marriage would be referred to as sons or daughters from the man’s name. The children from the current marriage would be referred to as sons or daughters from the woman’s name. In this scripture, when Jesus is called the “son of Mary”, it would be reasonable based on the culture of the time, to imply that the other siblings were the sons and daughters of Joseph and not Mary.

Also, the Hebrew and Greek terms for “brother” are often used to refer to relatives and not what we would understand as “brothers.” For example, Abraham and Lot are called brothers in Gen 14:14 though we would understand their relationship as uncle/nephew. Jacob and Laban are also called brothers in Gen. 29:15, though we would also call this an uncle/nephew relationship. Biblical language does not always use the term brother in the same sense we do today.

In support of Mary only giving birth to Christ can be found in the Gospel of John,
John 19:26 When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son!”

If Jesus had other brothers, this would be a very strange situation as it would go against Jewish custom. According to custom if the oldest son died it would fall on the next oldest to take care of the mother. If the son, is the only son, it his responsibility to appoint someone else to care for the mother. Jesus, being the only son of Mary does exactly that when he delegates John to take care of His mother.
 

pat34lee

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I found this article, Mary as Ever-Virgin - The Orthodox Faith and I wanted to see if anyone had any feedback on something that it said. This is one part that stood out that made me want to ask about it.

As the oldest son, taking care of the parents would have been Yeshua's job, not any of the younger children. As to why he would pass that duty to a disciple, rather than a brother, there is no way to tell. It could be that the rest of the family had no way to support her. With him being condemned and crucified, they may have been in hiding.
Why Did Jesus Say "Woman, Behold Your Son"? - Last Words
 
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BukiRob

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I found this article, Mary as Ever-Virgin - The Orthodox Faith and I wanted to see if anyone had any feedback on something that it said. This is one part that stood out that made me want to ask about it.

I think that the idea that Joseph was previously married is extremely unlikely. First off Joesph was poor as a church mouse. People know him as a carpenter but the better translation is "handy man" he would have been at the lowest level in terms of social class.

What we do know is that Joseph was an upright man. We know he honored Torah.

The problem with this fable teaching of Mary being a virgin her whole life is just flatly absurd. First and arguably foremost is that scripture UNLIKE other books of antiquity, shows mankind wort's and all. The "hero's" of scripture are shown as flawed people and G-d in spite of that works through them.

The "church" wants to immortalize them making them more than normal, human people who were trying to walk upright before G-d. This is a deceptive, seductive lie.... Satan will give you 95% truth if you will but accept his lie... the greatest lies ALWAYS have elements of truth.

Jesus family was so poor they could not afford formal training for Jesus... you must understand that at 13 Messiah would have had his Bar Mitzvah the scribes and pharisees marveled at his understanding of scripture ....

Luke 2:47 And all who heard Him were amazed at His understanding and His answers.
 
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BukiRob

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A question I've always had.

What possible Biblically documented reason is there for Miryam(Mary) to remain perpetually virgin?

0, none, nada not one iota of evidence... you know kind of the same from abandoning Sabbath observence
 
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Dave-W

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A question I've always had.

What possible Biblically documented reason is there for Miryam(Mary) to remain perpetually virgin?

She did not become a 'perpetual virgin' until about 400 ce. It grew out of the early church fathers' complete hatred for marriage and sexuality. (stemming IMO from Greek dualism and gnosticism).

Jerome wrote that God hated married sexuality so much that when a married couple were so occupied, the Holy Spirit had to vacate the house until they were finished. Another ECF wrote that the ONLY reason God allowed married sex was to create more virgins for the church.

If God hated sex so much, how could Our Lord's mother do that? According to one tradition, she was so much of a virgin that Our Lord did not pass thru that part of her body either at birth, but was teleported from her belly to the manger.

"Beam me up Scotty"

IMO there was a serious idol worship of virginity.
 
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ContraMundum

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I am with the Orthodox on this one. Seems far more credible and has a ton of historic support. John was given care of Mary from the Cross. If He had other siblings, this would have been unnatural- especially if one of them was James as some believe.
 
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Dave-W

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Well - we see earlier in the gospels that Miriam and the other brothers came to take their way-ward son/sibling home. They were not believers. But Miriam had something happen, either at or just before the crucifiction - she started to believe.

Perhaps Our Lord did not want her left in the care of unbelievers. (his siblings)
 
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visionary

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Well - we see earlier in the gospels that Miriam and the other brothers came to take their way-ward son/sibling home. They were not believers. But Miriam had something happen, either at or just before the crucifiction - she started to believe.

Perhaps Our Lord did not want her left in the care of unbelievers. (his siblings)
I can see that..
Matt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
 
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visionary

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Okie dokie.

Assuming, hypothetically, that Mary remains "ever virgin", what are we supposed to regard her as, or do because of her, in the here and now, today and the future? Co-Redemtrix/Mediatrix? Mommy-Goddess? What role?
Virginity doesn't make you a goddess, no matter how many years you are one.
 
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BukiRob

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Okie dokie.

Assuming, hypothetically, that Mary remains "ever virgin", what are we supposed to regard her as, or do because of her, in the here and now, today and the future? Co-Redemtrix/Mediatrix? Mommy-Goddess? What role?

Scripture makes it crystal clear this is not, CAN NOT be the case.

18 Now the birth of Jesus [r]Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit. 19 And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man and not wanting to disgrace her, planned [t]to send her away secretly. 20 But when he had considered this, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who has been [v]conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for [w]He will save His people from their sins.” 22 Now all this [x]took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name [y]Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.” 24 And Joseph [z]awoke from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took Mary as his wife, 25 [aa]but kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus.

#1 Scripture declares they were married. If a man and women never consummate they are not married It is the act of consummation that causes a man and a woman to become one flesh.

#2 and MOST importantly scripture speaks specifically about Mary's virginity when it says

but kept her a virgin UNTIL she gave birth to a son; and he called him YESHUA.

Not that Joseph kept her a virgin... that word UNTIL makes it clear that after her ceremonial impurity was over after the birth he would have consummated their marriage
 
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pat34lee

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Okie dokie.

Assuming, hypothetically, that Mary remains "ever virgin", what are we supposed to regard her as, or do because of her, in the here and now, today and the future? Co-Redemtrix/Mediatrix? Mommy-Goddess? What role?

I can tell you the reason they claim this, just not why anyone would buy it.

The Queen of Heaven cannot be less than her child. Anything that makes a claim for Jesus' divinity must also apply to her, from doing miracles to virgin birth to perpetual virginity. Direct from paganism to the RCC. Only the names were changed to hide the guilty.
 
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Lulav

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Jiminy Christmas, what else is new!!!!!!!!

I'm fishing for Catholic/Orthodox conjectures, for crying out loud.

Sheezo Cheezo.

Oh forget it.

I'm outta here.

I defer to the resident dominatrices.

No Jews today.

NUTS!!!
THAT was totally uncalled for. And an apology is expected.

Visionary did not deserve that response. If you want a Catholic response then go to the Catholic forums.
 
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Okie dokie.

Assuming, hypothetically, that Mary remains "ever virgin", what are we supposed to regard her as, or do because of her, in the here and now, today and the future? Co-Redemtrix/Mediatrix? Mommy-Goddess? What role?
Oh puhleeze. No one regards her as a "Mommy-Goddess" so let's not get silly. If you want to discuss her titles of Co-redemptrix/mediatrix, I'll be happy to do so in OBOB, but not here.
 
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