Discussion Martial arts has no place in a holy Spirit filled life..

[Alithis]

I can't figure out if you are just ignorant or deliberately acting that way.

No based on what I believe scripture says and doesn't say.
'I believe' is saying this is what I interpret or I deduct from the scriptures, rather than stating that This Is the way it is, I'm right you're wrong, yada yada.
I Believe that you have failed to make your argument based on scripture. You believe differently. Someone else may believe as you have and someone else may believe as you haven't.
Got the idea?

What scriptures are you referring to?and in what relation to all scripture?

 

[Alithis]

Who are you to declare how God will draw someone to Him?? What method has He declared to you is the way to tell someone about Him?? How do you know how that man felt? Humiliated?--Maybe--and so he should be. He tried to hurt someone and that someone turned it around on him, and instead of retaliating, he only subdues and let him go. And as he is sitting there who are you to dictate how he then started to think about it all and realized the emptiness of his life and the strength of character it took to set him free? He told this robber and perhaps murderer that his life is wrong, that there is a God that loves him and has a better way for him to live and you want to criticize his method?? He stood up for God, he told the guy he was wrong, he told the guy there is a better way--who are to say he did it wrong?? What complete and utter arrogance of that statement!!!

-I havent declared how God can draw someone to him. but in scripture we know it is by his holy spirit.
-What method has he declared to me as the way to tell someone about him?
The same method he Showed us as and example and then commanded us to do of course.
Jesus said Go..heal the sick,preach the gospel,drive out demons (in this case .of m.a theyare probably spirits of violenc,control,and pride) baptize them in my name and make more deciples.
The method he has given us is extremy disticnt,clear ,announced througout the new testiment ,displayed by jesus and the apostles .the preaching of the gospel is always accompanied by love healing deliverence .never violence .

 

[mmksparbud]

He wasn't violent--he disarmed a violent man and gave him the gospel instead of violence and let him go. You have no right to dictate how God should have done things. If that man was saved, who are you to argue with God? If he wasn't, he was given a chance and he was kept from one crime to his long list. God works in His own way.

 

[Alithis]

He wasn't violent--he disarmed a violent man and gave him the gospel instead of violence and let him go. You have no right to dictate how God should have done things. If that man was saved, who are you to argue with God? If he wasn't, he was given a chance and he was kept from one crime to his long list. God works in His own way.

i haven't dictated anything nor argued with god . i posted some scripture in response and agreed with him.
the lord Jesus didn't wrestle people to the ground then force them while laying three humiliated by defeat ,to listen to what he had to say . there is no example nor scriptural precedent for that . it based upon carnal reason and an attempt at justifying another activity the scripture do not tell us to pursue , being martial arts .

there is no comparison between the walking in the holy Spirit and martial arts ..in most cases it is only those who do M/A that run to the defense of doing it . no one else has a problem with the topic .-interesting isn't it .

 

[mmksparbud]

You're right---the guy should have just allowed himself to get robbed and knifed and not been able to say a single thing about God---silly me---it would have been far better or him to die and add another robbery and possible murder to the list of that guy 's sins instead!!---Personally---I'm glad the guy did it his way and not yours, as he has lived to not just tell the story , but bring many others to Jesus----but you can tell God how wrong he was on judgment day--I'm sure your way is best---goodbye--

 

[Blade]

I understand what you are trying to say. You ..your sight is limited. Well in Luke Christ tells them ..if you dont have a sword go buy one. Lol no this does not mean its ok to do fighting.. and what ever.

You talk about the power you have over demons and sick and this is what we ALL have. Christ gave us ALL power all authority over the fallen one and every demon. Power over MAN...we do not have. All anger, things like this are not always some demon. So someone comes at you .. you can say in JESUS name all you want.. it will do NOTHING! Power over man we do not have. Let not the sun go down upon your wrath. So even those that dont know Christ can get very mad and do things and guess what? It was just them. Christ is our example. But WE are NOT Him. Why? He always saw the heart..we do not.

You think GOD is against people army? You think GOD didnt know a BETTER way for Israel to take the land? You think GOD could not just walk in there and sweet talk the enemy? Playing I know but.. THINK...

Well take Josiah.. He sees what? A angel? Yet this was no reg angel... well Josiah bow'd down and worshiped HIm and was told to take off your shoes for where you stand is holy. Yet this ANGEL said what? He was the commander of the Army of God? Ok.. were talking HEAVEN right? They have SWORDS? Cant GOD just use His word against them?

Martial arts. From what I can read here.. it would seem this is something YOU should not do. To apply what you personally believe to ALL... hmm. Yet I do see how you look at this and can understand and say YES I agree. Yet to the one that like this.. likes working out.. keeping fit.. doing matches.. having fun. Getting a chance to witness to people I might NEVER get to see. People that would never give me the time of day. If GOD has a Army that FIGHTS with swords and so much more you would not understand.. this is just a bad mirror of that.

But again.. I understand what your saying.. and praise GOD! Fighting .. yeah.. to help you now.. a man keeps in the most loving way telling this other person about Jesus. One day the guy just beats the .. wow really really bad. He looks down at the believer all beat up and what not. Says.. WHY? Whey do you keep doing this? The Christian says.. with tears and blood pouring down.. because I love YOU! The man got saved. Yes a true story. So when I say I understand I do...yet there is FAR more to GOD then you think. Ask HIM with a open heart. To be willing to change. If we go to Him KNOWING the answer..He will say nothing. But really wanting to know.. He will tell you and show you where its written.

And remember.. many are weak in the faith.. we dont need to add more burdens to them. Have FAITH.. God will show them the true way.. it is HIM!

 

[Alithis]

I understand what you are trying to say. You ..your sight is limited. Well in Luke Christ tells them ..if you dont have a sword go buy one. Lol no this does not mean its ok to do fighting.. and what ever.

You talk about the power you have over demons and sick and this is what we ALL have. Christ gave us ALL power all authority over the fallen one and every demon. Power over MAN...we do not have. All anger, things like this are not always some demon. So someone comes at you .. you can say in JESUS name all you want.. it will do NOTHING! Power over man we do not have. Let not the sun go down upon your wrath. So even those that dont know Christ can get very mad and do things and guess what? It was just them. Christ is our example. But WE are NOT Him. Why? He always saw the heart..we do not.

You think GOD is against people army? You think GOD didnt know a BETTER way for Israel to take the land? You think GOD could not just walk in there and sweet talk the enemy? Playing I know but.. THINK...

Well take Josiah.. He sees what? A angel? Yet this was no reg angel... well Josiah bow'd down and worshiped HIm and was told to take off your shoes for where you stand is holy. Yet this ANGEL said what? He was the commander of the Army of God? Ok.. were talking HEAVEN right? They have SWORDS? Cant GOD just use His word against them?

Martial arts. From what I can read here.. it would seem this is something YOU should not do. To apply what you personally believe to ALL... hmm. Yet I do see how you look at this and can understand and say YES I agree. Yet to the one that like this.. likes working out.. keeping fit.. doing matches.. having fun. Getting a chance to witness to people I might NEVER get to see. People that would never give me the time of day. If GOD has a Army that FIGHTS with swords and so much more you would not understand.. this is just a bad mirror of that.

But again.. I understand what your saying.. and praise GOD! Fighting .. yeah.. to help you now.. a man keeps in the most loving way telling this other person about Jesus. One day the guy just beats the .. wow really really bad. He looks down at the believer all beat up and what not. Says.. WHY? Whey do you keep doing this? The Christian says.. with tears and blood pouring down.. because I love YOU! The man got saved. Yes a true story. So when I say I understand I do...yet there is FAR more to GOD then you think. Ask HIM with a open heart. To be willing to change. If we go to Him KNOWING the answer..He will say nothing. But really wanting to know.. He will tell you and show you where its written.

And remember.. many are weak in the faith.. we dont need to add more burdens to them. Have FAITH.. God will show them the true way.. it is HIM!

i will happily take your final point on board .
but on some points you've missed the point .its not about telling any one what they should or shouldn't do..- its ,what place it plays in a holy Spirit filed life .. thus far iv heard carnal reason . but only that . no scriptural godly reason to pursue it what so ever . and that is part of the over all point .

acknowledge the lord in all your ways and he will direct your paths .
iv not met any one who acknowledged the lord and was led,not by their own reason or will but by the lord INTO m/a .. only out of it .

 

[Alithis]

I too got baptized in water, filled with the Holy Spirit, preach the gospel, and make more disciples. The part of martial arts that has a place in the things of the Holy Spirit (again, we're not talking about the philosophy of the arts, just the physical parts) is in the taking care of one's body. It's good exercise. (But I don't do it any more either.)

Bowing is a sign of respect. It's not necessarily a form of worship. In some cultures, I suspect that bowing is as common as shaking hands in the West.

walking is good exercise .
we must not allow ourselves to be easily deceived or deceived at all -evil communications corrupt good manners .people already deceive themselves to think they can mix light with darkness & fellowship with that which is inherently of the spirit of this world and not be tainted by it .
when you have pure waters ..and you mix in just a drop of impure ..it is not pure any longer .
as it is written ..do you not know a little leaven leavens the whole ...

the very thought that peole think martial arts itself is the issue .. purity ,holiness faith and love of god .. that is the real issue . -"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him....'

 

[faroukfarouk]

Sometimes customs are mixed with false doctrine, sometimes not. Sometimes martial arts is more about self-defence tactics. Women as well as men participate, often.

 

[Alithis]

Sometimes customs are mixed with false doctrine, sometimes not. Sometimes martial arts is more about self-defence tactics. Women as well as men participate, often.

one day you may promote the gospel instead of promoting worldly comprimise

 

[DawnStar]

one day you may promote the gospel instead of promoting worldly comprimise

One day you may realize that martial arts has nothing to do with anyones ability to promote the gospel. One day.

 

[Alithis]

One day you may realize that martial arts has nothing to do with anyones ability to promote the gospel. One day.

Haha... that not somethings that needs discovering .however the post was to a petson who openly promotes carnal practice across a mumber of threads.i was posted in that context.
So we can return to the topic now

 

[Senkaku]

hmm...I think the heart is the important issue here. just like everything else in Christianity, it's not what you do, it's WHY you do it. in other words, if you are practicing martial arts because you don't trust in God's ability to protect you, then you are having an issue with faith or trust. if you practice to prove yourself to people, then you are struggling with an attitude. think about it, the pharisees read the word and prayed more than anyone else, but because their hearts were not in line with God, their actions meant nothing.

this also reminds me of the "meat sacrificed to Idol's" topic. yes, we have freedom, yet mindfulness of those weak in faith who haven't learned the concept yet and our responsibility to not hurt the faith of others, lest a millstone be hung around our neck.

 

[Alithis]

actually its not the same at all .. its opposite .. if were to say its ok to do martial arts ..i would be causing many to stumble into error .. that would be far far worse .for martial arts has no place in a holy Spirit filled life . we are to walk IN the Spirit ..not after the flesh

 

[Senkaku]

yes, I agree. there are many passages that show us that we are not to walk in that way. I think the clearest is when Jesus spoke about living by the sword to Peter.

But again, WHY do you practice it. I don't believe God is ok with us being unhealthy and not taking care of this temple. for me, it's fitness, I don't intend on ever using it on anyone. then again, I practice something very unorthodox that isn't even understood in the typical martial arts world. but I also feel like the situation or context changes it. example, say someone breaks into your house and is coming after your kids or wife, will you stand there and let it happen? I would argue that you are not being a proper man of God and husband if you are allowing that to happen. I'm not saying you have to destroy the guy, just saying you should know how to contain him and prevent it. as a man, we are protectors, we should know how to protect.

now the flip side. if the same scenario happened and you were not present and something happened, now you must deal with forgiving that person and showing them the love of God. You have a responsibility to your family, especially being a man of God.

now the spiritual side of it, there is war in spirit when we pray for people, spiritual warfare is very real. we are going to be in the army of God fighting in the end times. God is for fighting, just not the type we think about. we should not dedicate our lives to hurting others or be training this intention or reaction, I don't think that's biblical at all. Jesus went into the temple with a whip, he wasn't exactly tickling them. but again, look at the context, its WHY he did it. it wasn't for self defense, it was for justice, BIBLICAL justice, not carnal and fleshly in nature, but spiritual. you feel me?

 

[cannot be known]

I have read testimony of someone who was saved, after which he returned to his martial arts studio, his teacher noticed something was up.. and says to him "you have lost the spirit of judo"

so, i take such matters with a pound of salt, as they say.


but i don't know any substitute for marital arts. perhaps, if you are a feeble man, you can pray and fast and seek such a close relationship with God that, you know, God lets you know ahead of time who will steal your wallet, rape your wife, break into your house while your asleep and abduct your children. and God will tell you ahead of time. and you will curse that man and he will die, just as Elijah did.

perhaps that lifestyle is for you, it doesn't seem to be for me. but if someone is out to do me or anyone i am responsible for, do them harm, i Do Expect God to warn me or provide a way of escape.

as for myself, i don't carry a gun on me, but i wonder if i should.

But i know my ego and other problems would be cured if i took some marital arts classes and got my A$$ kicked at least once a week. i would probably be a much better, more humble person if i did so, and i would also have a lot more confidence elsewhere.


It might be easier to argue that Education has no place in a Spirit filled lifestyle, let God teach you everything you need to know.
But I think we all know better than to say that, but do we? those of you who say we don't need to defend yourself, do you not call the police?

 

[Alithis]

yes, I agree. there are many passages that show us that we are not to walk in that way. I think the clearest is when Jesus spoke about living by the sword to Peter.

But again, WHY do you practice it. I don't believe God is ok with us being unhealthy and not taking care of this temple. for me, it's fitness, I don't intend on ever using it on anyone. then again, I practice something very unorthodox that isn't even understood in the typical martial arts world. but I also feel like the situation or context changes it. example, say someone breaks into your house and is coming after your kids or wife, will you stand there and let it happen? I would argue that you are not being a proper man of God and husband if you are allowing that to happen. I'm not saying you have to destroy the guy, just saying you should know how to contain him and prevent it. as a man, we are protectors, we should know how to protect.

now the flip side. if the same scenario happened and you were not present and something happened, now you must deal with forgiving that person and showing them the love of God. You have a responsibility to your family, especially being a man of God.

now the spiritual side of it, there is war in spirit when we pray for people, spiritual warfare is very real. we are going to be in the army of God fighting in the end times. God is for fighting, just not the type we think about. we should not dedicate our lives to hurting others or be training this intention or reaction, I don't think that's biblical at all. Jesus went into the temple with a whip, he wasn't exactly tickling them. but again, look at the context, its WHY he did it. it wasn't for self defense, it was for justice, BIBLICAL justice, not carnal and fleshly in nature, but spiritual. you feel me?

the "why ' does not apply . its not gods will to be conforming to the spirit of this world .
he has already told us what we ARE to do and to know what is rightto do and not do it.. is sin .

the "WHY" will only come down to this .. when you stand before God he will ask ..'why did you not "obey' me .

 

[Alithis]

but i don't know any substitute for marital arts. perhaps, if you are a feeble man, you can pray and fast and seek such a close relationship with God that, you know, God lets you know ahead of time who will steal your wallet, rape your wife, break into your house while your asleep and abduct your children. and God will tell you ahead of time. and you will curse that man and he will die, just as Elijah did.

perhaps that lifestyle is for you, it doesn't seem to be for me. but if someone is out to do me or anyone i am responsible for, do them harm, i Do Expect God to warn me or provide a way of escape.

consider what you are saying . the 'life style" as you put it ,is not optional for the disciple of the lord Jesus .faith in him is essential to salvation at every level there is .

as for myself, i don't carry a gun on me, but i wonder if i should.

if you read the word of god, walk in the Spirit then you would not have to wonder .

But i know my ego and other problems would be cured if i took some marital arts classes and got my A$$ kicked at least once a week. i would probably be a much better, more humble person if i did so, and i would also have a lot more confidence elsewhere.

we can be humbled before men a thousand times and still harbor pride against god ..it is before god we must humble ourselves. and doing what SELF WILLS ...to do regardless of what his word says is both pride AND rebellion

It might be easier to argue that Education has no place in a Spirit filled lifestyle, let God teach you everything you need to know.
But I think we all know better than to say that, but do we? those of you who say we don't need to defend yourself, do you not call the police?

this doesn't really apply .. because you would have to define it . ie -education in what ? education in the word and ways of god IS a part of a holy spirit filled life .. education in worldly matters need not be a priority .

 

[Senkaku]

@Alithis hmm...I like you, you remind me a lot of my older self. fire is good, but best when used like a laser.

I'll bring the issue a little more close to home. what do you say to a believer who is working in a field where they have to apply martial arts? security workers, policemen, bodyguards,etc. are they in sin or disobedient because they are obligated to do that? or would you put the blame on the employer for obligating the believer to do that?

being charismatic, I believe in a spirit filled lifestyle where the Holy spirit is our defense. I know a story about a woman who was being robbed at gunpoint and she decided to speak in tongues...it worked! he was confused and ran off with the purse...so maybe half worked then? anyways, my point is, I believe we should never have that as our intention and never seek to do it, but turn the other cheek...you still need to see the whole picture. if you say the why isn't important, than Jesus was wrong for what he did in the temple, and I can't believe Jesus being in sin.

 

[aiki]

MArtial arts has no place in a holy Spirit filled life...
in the past it was discussed and few agreed .
but those that disagreed also displayed a disbelief in the ability of god to look after them .

I practiced and taught a Japanese martial art (Aikikai Aikido) for almost thirty years. I also believe wholeheartedly that my life is entirely dependent upon God. The two things were not mutually exclusive - at least, not in my life.

i sometimes wonder if the reverse would be tolerated so easily .. if the world would allow the teachings of the holy Spirit filled life into the dojo .

I used my role as Sensei to lead a number of my students to Christ. One of them is now a pastor of a Reformed church in the city where I live.

the two messages of the dojo and of the gospel are opposed . martial arts would teach that there is yin and yang equal opposites for everything .

I don't know what dojo you're thinking of, but the Gospel and the martial practice of my dojo were not in conflict. I didn't teach a dualistic philosophy in my dojo, but there is stability to be found physically in unifying push and pull, in and out, within one's body.

the bible in NO way teaches any such thing . ie- satan is not gods equal opposite . not even remotely. so we see right away the the two philosophies are immediately opposed .

Not every martial art or dojo teaches the idea of yin and yang, so your objection to the martial arts here can't be used as a universal one.

Selah.