Married Teacher Fired Over Premarital Sex

[lawtonfogle]

God also says to follow the established authorities...and generally speaking by law you gotta have that little piece of paper that says you're married.

No you don't. It gets confusing because the word used by both is the same, but marriage from a religious point of view is not the same thing as marriage from a secular point of view. To have a legally binding marriage, you have to have that piece of paper. To just be married via a religious ceremony, any religious ceremony, you do not. The state forcing requirements on religious marriage would be in violation of separation. Now, most people like to get both and call them the same thing.

 

[bsd31]

Was part of the "terms and conditions" of her hiring that she would not engage in premarital sex? If so what others conditions of hire did she agree to?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

No you don't. It gets confusing because the word used by both is the same, but marriage from a religious point of view is not the same thing as marriage from a secular point of view. To have a legally binding marriage, you have to have that piece of paper. To just be married via a religious ceremony, any religious ceremony, you do not. The state forcing requirements on religious marriage would be in violation of separation. Now, most people like to get both and call them the same thing.

Show me a church that the pastor doesn't require a marriage license from the county. A Christian church, by the by. Our churches in the WELS require a marriage license, which is issued by the county, not the church.

God requires that we follow the law and the law is that a couple is not married without that license...you can't get marital benefits without that license, right? I mean, isn't that why the LBGT community wants the ability to get legally married?

 

[jameseb]

Did you miss the part where this was actually a CHRISTIAN religious school?



Good thing no one is forcing you to work for a religious institution then!

I wouldn't even bother replying here...

I just realized that the point of this thread, and the OP's other threads, are simply attempts to criticize, embarrass or mock Christianity and Christians.... and I say that because of the OP's other threads that have blatantly mischaracterized stories at the expense of the Christians or Christian issues discussed in the stories.

I regret I actually thought legitimate discussion was the point here.

 

[lawtonfogle]

If it is true that she signed a contract which forbade this kind of conduct, then she really can't claim she was "wrongly treated" or have I missed something?

If the contract basically says sinners will get fired, she can claim discrimination. It is one thing to have strict rules, it is another to apply them only when you want or only in some cases. Funny though that the 'sin' or premarital sex is being punished here, when most other sins are actually worse as far as the price in the OT for them. Even lying made it into the big 10 while premarital sex didn't. Did premarital sex even require a blood sacrifice at all, or did you just have to get married?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Was part of the "terms and conditions" of her hiring that she would not engage in premarital sex? If so what others conditions of hire did she agree to?

well, that's the question of the day. I hate stories where we're missing huge chunks...this is just like that walmart employee who got fired after chasing down a shoplifter. Several people argued that the employee in the Walmart case was unaware of the policy. We don't know if the lady in this story knew the policies, although I'm guessing that she probably signed something that said she knew them...whether or not she actually read them is a different story.

 

[jameseb]

If the contract basically says sinners will get fired, she can claim discrimination. It is one thing to have strict rules, it is another to apply them only when you want or only in some cases. Funny though that the 'sin' or premarital sex is being punished here, when most other sins are actually worse as far as the price in the OT for them. Even lying made it into the big 10 while premarital sex didn't. Did premarital sex even require a blood sacrifice at all, or did you just have to get married?

You need to actually read my reply after that one.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Oh wow, those are awful.

How do they keep track if someone accesses the internet via their cell phone??

yeah, if someone sued Bob Jones U over that stuff, I'd say the same thing to them. Of course, I'd never attend BJU either, even if I wasn't Lutheran.

Our college in New Ulm, MN has some restrictions, but they put the onus on the person doing it, rather than flat out telling them they can't. For example, a snippet from the handbook about decorating:

• Choose your decorations in good taste. Post nothing that would offend your Lord or the common sense of an average Christian (which includes your mother, the dormitory supervisors, RAs, campus pastor and VP for Student Life.)
• Sexually explicit, suggestive or lewd decorations are not allowed.
• You may not display containers used for the storage or sale of intoxicating beverages or paraphernalia connected with the use of illegal drugs.
• Posters/paraphernalia promoting beer or liquor may not dominate or highlight the decor of any room and are discouraged, generally. Such decorations would certainly be inappropriate for any student under the legal drinking age. The dorm supervisor and VP for student Life will help you decide what is and is not permitted and their decisions will be final.

about the only thing they're really firm on is the illegal stuff and anything sexually explicit.


Anyhoo, sorry for the derail.

Wow, even I wouldn't make it there, and I have never had a single drink and don't on a single sexually explicit thing. I have a bag for my DnD dice that is actually a Crown Royal bag that I received third hand (friend received a few second hand and shared one). Best dice bag I ever had.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I wouldn't even bother replying here...

I just realized that the point of this thread, and the OP's other threads, are simply attempts to criticize, embarrass or mock Christianity and Christians.... and I say that because of the OP's other threads that have blatantly mischaracterized stories at the expense of the Christians or Christian issues discussed in the stories.

I regret I actually thought legitimate discussion was the point here.

that's exactly the reason I do post in them.

 

[Risen Tree]

She can always get a job at a public school where she would be welcomed I'm sure.

No she can't. Most people do not realize that being fired as a teacher is a career death sentence. It is virtually impossible to get rehired by another teaching organization once this has happened.

Which is yet another reason why some teachers, once they learn how much more they could be making and how much more respect they could receive in another field, run to that other field like there is no tomorrow. That phenomenon is single-handedly killing the supply of quality teachers in America.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Wow, even I wouldn't make it there, and I have never had a single drink and don't on a single sexually explicit thing. I have a bag for my DnD dice that is actually a Crown Royal bag that I received third hand (friend received a few second hand and shared one). Best dice bag I ever had.

I think your crown royal bag would be okay, provided it didn't hog the entire room! I'm not really sure what they mean by "intoxication beverages" since it's clear they're not talking about alcohol but something that's illegal (perhaps promoting moonshine is against the rules )

I live 45 minutes away from the campus and have been inside numerous rooms in the dorms. They don't really look much different than most dorms...

No she can't. Most people do not realize that being fired as a teacher is a career death sentence. It is virtually impossible to get rehired by another teaching organization once this has happened.

That's not necessarily true. I know of at least five teachers who were summarily fired by the high school I attended and they had no problems getting jobs, even though two of them were fired for misconduct with students and another one was fired for helping her students cheat on the ACT.

Which is yet another reason why some teachers, once they learn how much more they could be making and how much more respect they could receive in another field, run to that other field like there is no tomorrow. That phenomenon is single-handedly killing the supply of quality teachers in America.

I think the biggest thing killing the supply is that schools expect teachers to teach a test rather than actual stuff. NCLB really screwed up the way we view how our schools are performing.

 

[CyberPaladin]

I don't see the problem it seems to be pretty common morality clause I have seen questions about sexaul activity on applications for several Christian nonprofits that I have applied to for bookkeeping positions. I will say one place I interviewed at did go overboard since the guy spent more time grilling me on my stance on things like drinking and premartial sex then actauly going over nomral job interview items like my resume and what would actauly be doing on the job.

 

[shinbits]

While she has my sympathies, this is what happens when you work for an intolerant Christian organization: "Jesus forgives so we don't have to.

I wonder why she feels the need to sue.. whatever happened to being like Jesus, the whole.. "turn the other cheek" idea?

Here, folks, is the problem with Christians. None of them follow their own Bible. Instead, they pick and choose what they like.

 

[jameseb]

Here, folks, is the problem with Christians. None of them follow their own Bible. Instead, they pick and choose what they like.

You speak as if you're not one ("they", "them"), yet you have a Christian icon on display. So I presume you pick and choose as well, and not follow your Bible either then?

I'm glad I'm not of your ilk.

 

[shinbits]

You speak as if you're not one ("they", "them"), yet you have a Christian icon on display. So I presume you pick and choose as well, and not follow your Bible either then?

I'm glad I'm not of your ilk.

take your weak attempt at an insult and shove it. all u've done is prove my point by throwing that comment at me, though you're a "christian".

 

[Trogdor the Burninator]

Unless this person was advocating premarital sex or some other position directly contrary to Christianity to students at the school, IMO the school should show some Christian forgiveness and let her stay.

Otherwise, they need to stop focussing on sexual sin and go for all of them. Headmaster seen lusting after that BMW in the carpark, Maths teacher lying about her grandkids...sorry - you've all got to go.

 

[jameseb]

take your weak attempt at an insult and shove it. all u've done is prove my point by throwing your weak insult at me, though you're a "christian".

What insult? I simply said I am not the Christian you describe and apparently label yourself as.

Where is the insult? Wait... its in your reply here.

I don't understand though... did you think "ilk" was an insult?

ilk1 (ĭlk)
noun
Type or kind

"Shove it"? E-tuff gui FTW.

 

[shinbits]

What insult? I simply said I am not the Christian you describe and apparently label yourself as.

Where is the insult? Wait... its in your reply here.

I don't understand though... did you think "ilk" was an insult?

"So I presume you pick and choose as well, and not follow your Bible either then?"

There was your attempt at wit, by twisting my words and implying I don't follow the Bible.

"Shove it"? E-tuff gui FTW.

Yup, keep proving my point.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Unless this person was advocating premarital sex or some other position directly contrary to Christianity to students at the school, IMO the school should show some Christian forgiveness and let her stay.

Otherwise, they need to stop focussing on sexual sin and go for all of them. Headmaster seen lusting after that BMW in the carpark, Maths teacher lying about her grandkids...sorry - you've all got to go.

Exactly. Unless it was in the contract specifically to have never have had premarital sex...They can't say it terminates her contract because she is living in active sin since she is now married and no longer sinning with sex. It makes no sense to me, they are all sinning in some way at the school, should they all be fired or quit?? Why would they fire for a past sin and not one that she is currently involved in?? Everyone has sinned in their past!

 

[jameseb]

"So I presume you pick and choose as well, and not follow your Bible either then?"

There was your attempt at wit, by twisting my words and implying I don't follow the Bible.

You're stating intentions and words that I didn't express nor write. Nowhere did I imply you don't follow the Bible, only questioning whether those attributes applied to you as well.

So if I understand correctly... you may speak of Christians the way you did and that's alright. However, remind you that you are a Christian too and I'm somehow "twisting" your words and "insulting" you? That makes utterly no sense.

Yup, keep proving my point.

What point is that exactly?